Its just craziness. With Coconut Creek making so much more money it gives them more money to spend so they can just make more money. The poor racinos don't have a chance.

And the fact that Coconut Creek thinks its a good idea to rub it in the tax payers faces - unreal.

The compact only has the Seminoles giving the state $150 million per year - they should be giving almost that much per casino.

If they gave the racinos black jack and unlimited numbers of games etc the racinos could come closer to competing but they are still never going truly be able to match the Seminoles.

Why is the state being so obtuse? Forget the Seminoles $150 million and let all the tracks have unlimited slots and black jack and the state will be making way more than that.

Shame on the Seminoles - they can't pay us a bonus and they cut our benefits take away our holiday pay and they are making so much money

Let's not forget that the so called "POOR" racinos have thier hands tied with a 50% tax from the State of Florida and NOT by the hand of the Seminoles. This is the same State that only a few years ago refused to even talk to the Seminoles about gaming and now theirs talk of machines at Miami Airport and throughout the racetracks in North Florida???? If the same uneducated state officials keep these stall tactics going, thier will be no tax dollars for Florida and the $150m won't sound so bad when schools and police depts are closing dwon left and right.....

Let's see, you take thier land, shove them off into the swamps and then cry that they don't pay enough taxes????

Thanks again for screwing us, Empty Chair Cahrlie!

john hughes.... you're not the former Sun-Sentinel John Hughes, correct...

liked the use of the word 'obtuse...' from Shawshank?

No to the Sun Sentinel relationship, just a fed-up tax payer. It is so frustrating that the house and senate spent so much time and tax payer money to come up with a compact that was still hugely in the Seminoles favor and the Seminoles and Charlie Crist have the gall to completely disregard it.

Why not allow the racinos to operate the same unlimited number of games including black jack with the same hours but still give the Seminoles a tax that is less. Then they still have an advantage. And the state gets even more money.

PS Apologies for using "obtuse" and "gall" in the same blog but I can't help it

Thanks, Nick for running this story. I think the better billboard for the future might read:

Dollars for Education

Mardi Gras, Isle and Gulfstream $292,550,897 & counting.....

Coconut Creek $0 !!!!

Let us compete on a level playing field...The State, Florida's kids, our Counties & Cities deserve to WIN for a change. That's what we voted for!!

(Oh, yeah, almost forgot...we're regulated by the State so you know your getting a fair game, good luck at those other facilities)

Why doesn't the state just give all parimutuels in the state what the Seminoles have.

Then the tracks will have enough money to expand thus putting more money into our local and state coffers.

What do you think the bottom line to the state would be if this were to happen? A billion dollars?

The extra income these tracks will generate will be enough to cover the
$150 mil from the Seminoles.Then forget about the Seminoles and their compact and let the Feds deal with them.

New Jersey taxes 12 casino at a 9.5% rate and generates $350 million. Fl. wants to let seven Native American outlets pay $150, giving them tables games and Vegas slots. But will tax the tracks 50% with slots only? Oh yea, that's fair. WAKE UP!!!!!!!!

so when are are they going to start giving some of the money back to the school of south florida

we the people voted on that to take place.

when and where and who how

Thanks for the comments, all, including Dan A. (Welcome to Action!)

So there's clearly some problems with the way gambling is governed in our state. I have no idea what is fair, and that doesn't even take into consideration what the state will allow.

But I'm still wondering: is that number for Coconut Creek higher or lower than you all thought?

Cheers to the poster that says shame on the Seminoles for the way they treat their employees! They pay well under industry standard and continue to take and take from their people. They quake in fear of unions because they would be forced to treat people better. Bonner and Coconut Creek must be missing the sensitivity chip.

This shows people have a real love-hate relationship with the Seminoles. Most think the state is being screwed, but they like Seminoles' casino product.
Coconut Creek is a bare bones, smokey slot warehouse type of operation. Just wait until the Compact issues are settled and the Seminoles expand the casino and build a hotel. It'll be another Hard Rock which will draw customers and money from northern Broward and Palm Beach.

Great points all... question for Sortal and Dan Adkins (welcome to our blog, by the way). I get the market advantage, but why is Mardi Gras off a cliff in their numbers compared to last year and Gulfstream is up? Is it compact related or is there something going on in Hallandale that we should be aware of? Did the shooting have an impact?

nick, you want fair? here it is!

THE PLAN

1. The State will auction six (6) licenses to operate casino hotels. The properties must be located in Dade, Broward or Palm Beach counties with no more than three (3) in any one county. All properties must be located as beachfront properties with a minimum of 500 guest rooms.

2. The parameters of the licence will be fully realized prior to the auctions but will include full class III gaming under rules comparable to Nevada (without sports betting) or New Jersey and hopefully drafted in association with officials of those states.
(A) The ongoing annual licensing fees as well as tax rate on revenues will be set prior to the auctions
(B). All organizations wishing to participate in the auctions must register with the state, post a bond and demonstrate financial viability. The DPBR will be responsible for background checks of the principals of each organization wishing to bid.
(C) Any existing and operating parimutuel license holder within the three affected counties will have the right to match the winning bid resulting from any auction either as a solitary entity or as part of a partnership or LLC subject to approval based on criteria as described above.

3. State proceeds from the initial auctions will used to:
(A) Offer buy-outs to any parimutuel in the three affected counties that wish to cease operations. A parimutuel licence holder may also opt for an equity stake in a newly issued casino licence in lieu of a cash buy-out.
(B) Offer job retraining for any parimutuel industry employee wishing to be trained for casino industry employment.
(C) Offer unemployment benefits to parimutuel employees affected by a buy-out.
(D) Cover the costs of enhanced regulation and oversight.
(E) Enhance state education funding.

4. The Parimutuel facilities in the affected counties will have the option of accepting a buy-out and ceasing operations. Those that chose to continue operations will do so under the following guidelines:
(A)They will not be required to continue offering any type of parimutuel live performances or simulcasting.
(B) They will be permitted 24 hour class III slot machines and poker games under prevailing national rules.
(C) They will be taxed at a rate of 5-10% lower than that of the beach front casinos.

5. Parimutuel facilities outside of the affected areas would continue to operate as normal except:
(A) Any parimutuel within a county that has approved poker would operate under the same poker rules as Dade, Broward and Palm Beach.
(B) Any parimutuel facility within a county that has approved poker would no longer be required to run live parimutuel performances or simulcasting.
(C) Any parimutuel facility within a county that approves class III slot machines would then operate under the same provisions as outlined in section 4 (A), (B), and (C).

6.The Seminole Tribe of Florida would be permitted to operate any form of gambling permitted in the state in any way they wish in any of their currently operating casinos under the following provisions:
(A) The Tribe will pay the State of Florida $350 million annually.
(B) The Tribe will sacrifice no tribal sovereignty and submit to no state oversight.
(C) The State reserves the right to request federal or third party oversight of tribal gaming operations.
(D) The Tribe agrees to appoint a third party ombudsman to assist casino guests in the event of dispute or injury.

Some Final Notes

Why would the state allow this? The legislature could be dragged along (pretending to be) kicking and screaming once it becomes clear that class III tribal gaming is inevitable. This is the ultimate free market solution. Let's set the parameters and then let the market decide what it is worth while the state reaps the benefits in tens of thousands of jobs and billions in revenue immediately. That revenue can be used in the present to "make whole" the states long abused parimutuel partners or ensure their future. They can stop the waste of running races and playing games that few want to watch.

Just a few beach front casinos would restore South Florida as one of the great tourist spots on the planet. No where else could match the amenities of world class casinos on a world class beach all in the gateway to North America.

d: just a great, great thought. From my point of view, it is clearly fair, although surely a few people would have quibbles. Mayo has said that, too, something along those lines.

Detroit: Welcome back! Where you been?

Harry: I'm working on exactly that article, with a small tweak: Actually Gulfstream's #'s are up and everyone else's are down, including the Isle. Dan pointed to the Seminoles' 24-7 blackjack and says he's lost people there; he also (correctly) points out that Mardi Gras is still well ahead of Gulfstream. Gulfstream and trade magazines say their slot products are hooking people, and that's why they're gaining. I also touch on all the crap they went through (or the hole they dug themselves into, depending on your point of view). If anyone wants to comment, possibly for print, whey they play at Gulfstream, would love to hear it. email me or call 954-356-4725.//nick

Why do some people feel bad for the parimutuels?

First of all, their product is not as popular anymore. That's too bad, but it happens.

Second of all, they are investing over $100M on building a casino at Calder. They've had plenty of opportunity to look at the competitive and legislative landscape, and they still chose to build here. So it must not be that bad and they must be expecting to make millions of dollars.

Nick, in answer to your specific question, "But I'm still wondering: is that number for Coconut Creek higher or lower than you all thought?", I would have guessed more than $300 which is near the top end across the country. I wouldn't be surprised to see Coconut Creek's win per day higher than Hard Rock's. There are lots of other diversions at Hard Rock, including tables, concerts, Seminole Paradise, etc. At Coconut Creek, there's nothing there except slots, so slot players are making a conscious decision to go there to feed the machines. I'm not counting the poker room because it's like an after thought at The Creek.

Also, Coconut Creek has extensive promotions that keep players coming back every day. It's amazing how daily drawings for free play, special drawings for heavy slot players, car giveaways, gimmicks like that Dining in the Sky thing, and other promotions keep players coming (and leaving their money there when they head home).

Isle Pompano and the other racinos can't afford the same level of giveaways with the current tax rate.

Here's a link to slot win figures. I can't vouch for its credibility, but it seems logical:
http://casinodev.com/revisedsitework/Articles/NationalGamesReport.pdf

I think the number at Coconut Creek is what you would expect based on the occupancy that you see there.

The Isle and the other racinos offer a good product but with the incentives that the Seminoles are able to give players based on the fact that they pay zero tax - it is impossible to compete.

Has anyone put together the numbers that are being generated from the Seminole empire? Then we could actually figure out a reasonable number for them to be paying our state.

Hard Rock Hollywood is busier than Coconut Creek and Tampa is even busier.

What's an educated guess for what they make a day per seat at black jack? $4,000 or $5,000 or $6,000?

Nick - can you figure out a total number?

Well the reality is that Coconut Creek Casino doesn't pay out on slots anymore. If you were to interview a hundred people there you will hear that you can't win there anymore. Steve Boner and his management team have continued to screw over all the players. For Instance:

1.) Raised the Amount of Player Club Points needed to become an elite player from 60,000 to 100,000 points within a 3 month period.

2.)Next they raised the Amount to play for points. Player Club Cardholders now have to play $2.00 to receive 1 (one) Point. It use to be $1.00 for 1 (one) point. So now think about this people. In order to get to Elite status you would have to play $200,000.00 Dollars through the machines in a 3 month period.

3.)Now if this wasn't bad enough. They Screwed over their players once again last month dropping everyones free play amount to $50.00 for Big Players that were getting $150.00-$200.00 per week. Of Course with the decline of Attendence they realized that people were upset and not going. So they created a special list that was only for a limited amount of players that spend huge amounts of money and sent out an apology saying Opps we messed up heres some extra free play. I however wasn't on this list.

4.)For those players who get $25.00 or less in free play there was an extra ticket at the bottom of there monthly calendar that would give you an extra $100.00 - $150.00 dollars in Free Play if you earned 2500 or 5000 points on your players club card. Now Remember above that it takes $2.00 to get one point. Doesn't take a Rocket Sciencetist to figure out that you would have to play $5000.00 or $10,000.00 dollars to get your lousy $100-$150 dollars in extra free play. What's Wrong with this picture?

5.) Now They have tighten up all the machines not to pay out like they use too. So you can't win there anymore. For example if you went there every week for 3 months you might win a amount bigger then $500.00 maybe once. Usually the machines hit something small then take it all back. I even have gotten bonuses on machines that pay a $0.00 Zero thats right a Zero Bonus. Now don't you think that should be illegal?

6.) Most of their promotions now only involve giving away free play instead of cold hard cash. How greedy and cheap can they get???????

Please Players post your thoughts and opinions here and maybe Steve Bonner will get the hint that we are Tired Of Losing everytime we walk through the door.Aren't you SICK OF LOSING????