I agree! Parents have so much to deal with and people who have never had children just don't understand. As a published author, of 101 Things I Wish I Had Known About Raising a Baby, I agree with all you just said. We do our best for our children and our families.

Having a baby is purely a narcissistic self-endulgence. Period. Others should not be subjected to those outbursts because you wish to "have" a baby. It's not all about you sweetie.....so either stay home or get a sitter.

My advice is to find another church that is more family-friendly. IMO, if a baby is screaming at the top of his/her lungs, then taking the baby out is appropriate so as not to disturb others. But if babies are just making baby-noises, then that just goes with the territory. I think you can find a better fit elswhere.

thats one of the reasons duct tape was invented

Jamie, I think it's better to say that it's not all about YOU. If my baby is creating a noisy environment and disrupting a service, that is a problem I can address by removing the baby from the service. But if my baby's mere PRESENCE offends you, that, sweetie, is YOUR problem. I invite you to catch a televangelist from the baby-free comfort of your living room or plastic bubble or wherever you choose to engage in life rather than subject yourself to the existence of other human beings.

what church was this? I want to make sure I never go there. Children are the reason churches grow; without them all of the members eventially die off.

Give me a baby to wink at any day when they make their cooing noises rather than the "amen" biggots!

I agree with you Rafael on Jamie's comments.

I thought procreation was part of the church teachings! hmm, Jamie, you are entitled to your decision not to bring a child into this world but don't push your wishes on others. My two daughters were the best thing that ever happened to me!

I didn't name the church because I believe churches have every right to set their policies and stand by them. I have my opinion about how a church should handle babies in the congregation, and if this church handles it differently, that's the church's right. I'll go find another one.

If you don't know what church I'm referring to, it's because you don't attend it, or you do attend it and the policy doesn't bother you. More power to you, either way. I hope the church continues to grow and thrive and help people. It'll just be doing it without my family, just like every other church out there except the one we end up at. :)

Get a sitter to go to church?? Are you kidding me Jamie? Isn't church about families and communities coming together? Thank goodness my church loves the sounds of babies cooing and making their baby noises, it brings the congregation back to reality.

And having children is the complete OPPOSITE of self-indulgence, ask any mother with a newborn child. In my opinion, not having children is much more of a selfish act.

I'd be interested to hear from pastors and others who have to struggle to accommodate small children, infants, their parents and balance their needs with those of others in the congregation. Is there a winning formula, or are you in a no win situation?

My brother is a Lutheran pastor, and he has always encouraged parents to keep their children with them in the service, even if they get noisy. How else are they supposed to learn? We do have a nursery for parents who prefer it or need it, but that is totally their choice.

God works in mysterious ways. One would have a better time going to the beach than being part of a church community because all religions are equally absurd.

Interesting that parents with kids always seem to think the rest of us should just LOVE their precious little darlings . Sorry folks, Jamie is correct. It does not become 'all about you' just because you have a baby. Stop inflicting your selfishness on the rest of us and leave us in peace.

Frank, you're mistaken on a number of levels. Parents with kids don't think you should just "love" our precious little darlings. Rather, we think that if our precious little darlings aren't interrupting your enjoyment of a service, you are out of line and obnoxious asking us to leave the room because the babies MIGHT cry. In other words, you're the one trying to throw people out for your convenience, not the other way around. So who's being selfish?

Rafael, you don't get it. If a child is too young to control their own outbursts, then they're too young to take to public places that require you to be quiet. Examples would be church, and nicer restaurants. If you don't like that stick to revivalist churches and Denny's. Both of them cater to families with small, uncontrollable children.

Glenn, I do get it. And while I don't agree with you on churches, the burden is on me to find a church that handles the situation the way I'd like it to: Bring the baby in. if he gets noisy, bring him out. End of story.

If you'd prefer a church where the baby's not allowed in at all as a matter of principle, that's your right (and your burden to find a church that has such a policy).

And Glenn, I would hope that most churches of all denominations would prefer accommodating parents with small children rather than exiling them to revivalist churches. Jesus said "let the children come to me," not "keep those rugrats out of here until they learn to shut up for 45 minutes to an hour at a stretch."

You tell them Rafeal!! I have attaended many Catholic Churches in South Florida for over 30 years, since I was a child and now as an adult with children. Some with children's rooms, some without. Some with family congregations, some with mainly elderly congregations. Children have always been welcome.

To all those poeple on here disgusted with our children, I will say to you. PLEASE DO NOT SNEEZE, COUGH, TALK TO THE PERSON NEXT TO YOU, CLEAR YOUR THROAT, ETC... OR YOUR ARE BEING VERY HYPOCRITICAL BECAUSE I SHOULD NOT BE SUBJECT TO YOUR DISTURBING AND NOISY HABITS!!

Also, too bad your parents didn't think like that before giving birth to you!! The world would be a better place without your intolerance. What else are Frank, Glenn and Jamie intolerant of? Blacks, gays, hispanics, Jews, etc... You are plain and simple ingorant people and should probably heed Mark Twain's advice.

Any church that does not tolerate children is not a church of God. We are all children of God and all are welcome. My children will attend church with me and yes they will make some noise, but then again so do many adults. When my children were babies, if they could not be quieted, my wife and I would take turns taking them out so as not to disturb others. Because that is the couteous and right thing to do. However, after hearing your comments (Frank, Jamie and Glenn), I am more inclined to let my children scream and disturb you!!! That's what you deserve.

AMEN TO THAT.

Now, now, no fair accusing Frank, Glenn and Jamie of such bigotry when all they want is to worship in peace.

They are entitled to courtesy, but no one is entitled to an existence that does not occasionally remind you of the existence of babies. If being near a quiet baby is enough to disturb your peace in church, you have a problem, and it's not the baby.

I seriously have yet to understand why these folks who are so against children in public places are interested in reading a parenting blog! Someone please enlighten me.

JB, they probably got here because of a message on Twitter or on Facebook. It's not necessarily that they're reading a parenting blog. They may just be interested in conversations about babies in church.

I have no problem with non-parents letting me know how they feel about what I write here, and I'm sure the rest of our team agrees.

I'm more interested in a statement like this: "Interesting that parents with kids always seem to think the rest of us should just LOVE their precious little darlings..."

Uh, yes, in church, I actually DO expect those present to just LOVE my precious little darling. Something, I don't know, fundamentally Christian about that, no? :)

I do not want to be distracted in church. i come there to pray not to listen to your baby. I'd go get a job as a babysitter if i wanted to do that. I just want to concentrate after all week in the hell of the workplace....

I'm Sorry.. there is only one side to this story here, the usher might have been asked by someone in the church because they couldn't hear the sermon, etc.. because of the child and the parent should accept that and be gracious and remove the child. I have 4 children and if one of mine was making to much noise and you know when that is, I would go to the quite room. What's wrong with that? My husband would go with me and we could be together and still listen to the service. This is not about children it's about common curtisey to others.

Julia,

You're right about my presenting only one side to the story. And I'll say again, every church has every right to set its policy. My burden is to find one with a policy I can live with. The usher did his job and I am not criticizing him in the slightest.

But I can assure you because I was looking at the usher the whole time that no one came up to him and complained about the baby because, frankly, no one had time. You said if one of your children was making too much noise, you'd go to the quiet room. Fine. How much noise is too much? Any sound at all? You say "you know when that is," to which I respond, we were nowhere near that. This baby said "aah," twice. And that was it.

Common courtesy goes both ways: I'll remove my baby from the sanctuary if he makes too much noise, but if he's not making too much noise, I expect the courtesy of being left alone.

Maryann,

Do you expect utter silence in church? Do you expect the adult sitting next to you not to cough or sniff? Do you expect the only sounds in the room to be the pastor's voice and your heartbeat? Do you bar the doors to prevent latecomers from entering and thus distracting you from the pulpit? Maybe after a long week, you're better off tuning in to one of the TV stations that carry church services, or logging onto various church websites with live streaming.

Other human beings exist, and they're not silent. Some breathe heavy. Others laugh or sniff or sneeze.

If my baby's noise distracts you, believe me, I'll leave. But if my baby's mere presence distracts you, one of us is in the wrong church.

I really hope you do find the right fit... because my kids were too loud and it was too difficult we stopped going to synagogue entirely when my kids were younger. now that they are not so young anymore and can behave I want to start going again - well guess what? because they are not used to going they whine and complain about it!

I remember going as a child and enjoying it immensely and that's all I wanted for my kids...

As it turns out, we were very pleased with the church we attended this past weekend. There must have been nine or 10 babies, some (gasp) in their strollers, and two of them cried during the service. The ushers didn't approach any of us when our babies made normal baby noises (aah, aah), and the parents of the crying babies removed them immediately. Everyone enjoyed the sermon.

As I said, I concede the right of any church to adopt its own policy on babies. Adopting a policy is part of their job. Adopting a church is mine.

Parents, in my opinion, have an inate ability to tune out the noises and crying that their children/babies make. I'm sure that ability is a god-given gift otherwise more parents would probably snap under the constant noise barrage. As a result, I truly believe that parents do not hear what non-parents hear when babies start making noises. I think parents need to be more sensitive to others when they bring their children along to adult environments (any place where children should be expected to sit quietly, church, adult dining locations, concerts, etc.).

On the other hand, one would expect churches to welcome families, back in the day the kids when to Sunday school and/or church provided day care during the service.

Sam,

You make good points. I happen to believe that in a church environment, an intact family should feel fully welcome. As I mentioned in my last comment, there were plenty of babies at the church I visited this (last) weekend. They made sounds but they were not disruptive. Those who were disruptive were quickly removed. And if not for our family's experience the week before, I probably never would have made note of the baby noises because, as mentioned, they were simply not a big deal.

I don't envy the duty of a church to be friendly to families at the same time as trying to provide a constructive learning environment for its parishioners. Dealing with those conflicting goals can't be easy. I know one church that says, flat out, that children under a certain age (I think it's 12) don't belong in the main service because the main service is not designed for them. Hey, if that's their policy, more power to them! I won't go there with my family, but I won't begrudge them their right to set their policy!

I agree that parents need to be sensitive to others when we bring our children to adult environments. I also believe non-parents should be sensitive to the fact when we raise our children, we don't put them in soundproof bubbles out of fear that someone might be alerted to their existence.

It's a compromise, Sam. If my baby makes a sound, I trust you can deal with that. And if my baby starts to shriek and become disruptive, it's MY responsibility to deal with that.

And I'm grateful to have found a church where that balance seems to have been struck quite nicely.

Why are there so many nasty people?? It's a wonder they're even AT church! These are babies for goodness sake. Crying, ok, take the baby outside for a moment, but anything less is just rigid and cold hearted to me, and frankly somewhat hypocritical in CHURCH. You want complete silence, join a monastery.