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I can't agree that John did "everything he could", a couple of weeks after Mary's death John tried to toss the ball around with Dean. It didn't work and from there on John didn't seem to do anything for him. What little Dean was showing was signs of post traumatic stress, which children definitely can be affected by.

Dean was a child, John was an adult. There is absolutely no questions whose responsibility it was to try and see that his kids had stability and John did just the opposite. Not because he moved them around alot but because he didn't give them any kind of emotional and psychological stability. Sam got it to some extent from Dean, who took care of Sam and tried to be there for him but Dean got it from no one, so he had to try and create it for himself.

We're not talking about a relationship that included alot of praise and positive reinforcement. It was a relationship where most things he did were probably never quite good enough and that's on top the crippling levels of responsibility John put on Dean's shoulders.

It's really cute how excited jackie is about this episode!

Good point about the choice!I still like John and I love Meg, she is so great ;) The scarecrow and the reaper are my fav monster of season 1. I love your fruit references!

Oh, poor Mia no Orthodox-Jewish monster and I can't think of one in season 2 or 3!;)

I look forward to the next podcast! Faith is my favourite S1 episode!

Concerning the discussion of John's possible preference for Sam over Dean, I can't agree with that at all. Though I do think that Sammy was treated as the baby and the one that had to be protected at all cost (and which was pounded into Dean, causing an unhealthy protectiveness for his brother to the disregard of his own safety), at the same time I believe that Dean and John would often form one front against which Sammy could never win. To Sam, Dean looked like John's favourite, exactly because Dean is his Dad's little soldier. Dean excelled at hunting and following orders. Sam meanwhile excelled at school and being contrary, which I doubt he ever really got any positive response to from his father, who would've probably be more impressed by demon-hunting abilities like where Dean excelled. Remember Dean saying he was the one who got the extra cookie? Dean and John are also united in their loss of Mary, which Sam never consciously lived through. In a way, John and Dean were the parents together, and Sam the kid who they banded up against.

In the end, I don't believe that John loves either son more than the other, he just loves them differently. And that difference makes Sam and Dean feel that the other is the one more valued.

Thanks richa

I did read John's journal during the first season. I'm glad that it helped you to understand John's motivations and be sympathetic toward him.

For me, I agree that John was a broken man with two tiny boys to take care of and protect and I'm sure it wasn't easy. But he still didn't do right by them.

You are right John was aware of Dean's condition. But offering to go outside and toss the ball around with mute, tramatized Dean is not the same as getting the boy the help that he so obviously needed. It was made cannon in "Dead in the Water" that it was little Dean himself who made the choice to set aside (internalize) his own pain. Again, this sets the tone for much of Dean's characterization.

I do believe that John in his own messed up way did love his boys and rationalized that he was doing his best for them. But as far as I'm concerned he let down both of his sons in every possible way.

It was just wonderful to see Sam set aside his need for revenge to stay with Dean. I think that's very unselfish. I bet it was not easy for Sam to do,setting aside his own wishes because he realised he and Dean are all that's left.

And it's not about being wrong or right. Sam can do whatever he wants with his life, he doesn't have to follow Dean.

Sam has done more than enough for total strangers, he set aside his own grief to help people like Hayley, Lori,and all the others.
You can't expect him to put his quest for revenge on hold forever.

I find his behaviour very human in this episode.

Con,
I guess, u have sm strong hatred towards John's treatment towards the boys.I know the feeling,trust me i hv been there,but then i read his journal on the official WB SUPERNATURAL site, wich made me see the entire situation in a new light.Its simply heartwrenching to see how devasted & helples he was,after Mary's death. He was very much aware of Dean's condition,& he did tried to help him cope in every wich way he could. It also explains why he is staying away from his boys,coz in his own way he thinks he is protecting them.wich i do think, mite be a bit sinical of him,but thats wat the inexplicable tragedy did to him.&i think,that might be the reason y he didnt want Sam to go to the college,coz then he will be all by himself unsafe& unprotected!!
therefore, i say u read that journal,mite turn u around on the subject!!coz, i kno it did turn me!!!!

Nice podcast ladies. I'm glad that you all liked "Scarecrow". I agree it was a good episode that holds up after multiple viewings.

Though after the incident in "Assylum" (where we witnessed Sam reveal his worst feelings about Dean, filled his chest full of rock salt, before he proceeded to pull the trigger 3 times, then followed all that up with a lack of concern and a half assed apology) it was sad to see Sam basically verify everything he said (then) in this ep. Furthermore, he added insult to injury by diminishing Dean's pain about his mom's death. Sam saw just as we did in the Pilot, DITW, and Home that Dean was still affected by his mother's death and the trauma that accompanied it. It defines Dean in a way that Sam obviously doesn't understand.

I do agree with you that Sam wanted a choice and he had one. He chose to go after John because of his strong need for vengence and was willing to turn his back on potential victems. He wanted to do the same thing in "Wendigo". As much as I adore Sam he can be a little on the selfish side.

I can't let Dean off the hook in this one either. His "good son" comment was out of line even if it was in defense of Sam's verbal attack. Like Sam, I had a problem with Dean's blind obedience to John, especially since Dean is so anti-authority to everyone else (Sam is just the opposite).

And then there's John. I love JDM and am facintated by this character, but hate his treatment of his sons. I didn't think much of John when he bailed on Dean without a word or when I found out he kicked Sam to the curb because he wanted attend college. However my "John hate" was truly formed in "Dead in the Water" where we learned that 4 year old Dean stopped talking after the fire (obviously suffering from PTSD) and John did nothing to help him (no doctor, psycologist, no counceling of anykind). Instead John let his 4 year old deal with his own pain, grief, loss and trauma on his own. Which sets the tone for Dean's character. Little Dean set his own pain aside to honor his mother and take care of his family. Too bad John as the parent didn't have the strength or selflessness to do the same.

Scarecrow was a great episode. That fugly scarecrow was scary, and the orchard setting was very creepy. And I love Meg!

I have to completely agree with Gadfly's post. As is show time and time again, Dean takes the family motto to heart: Saving PEOPLE, hunting evil. Saving people comes first with Dean, but as this episode showed, that's not always the case with Sam. He was pissed at his dad for giving them orders and he would rather look for him than do the job of saving the couple. Time was of the essence in this case, but Sam shares John's stubborn streak, which I'm sure Dean saw plenty of when they were growing up.

"Sam gets treated like a son, Dean gets treated like a soldier."

I also agree with this Emily. And this is also a theme of the series. Jensen does such a great job at showing this dynamic as well. If you watch the beginning when Sam is talking to John and Dean is listening in, once Sam hands the phone to Dean, he sits up straight and speaks to John like he's taking orders. It's really touching, later on in the series, when John admits the burdens he layed on Dean.

I loved the phone call conversation between Dean and Sam as well. Dean telling Sam that he's *proud* of him for going off to college on his own and doing his own thing. He's such a great big-brother!

Thanks for the podcast ladies.

Great podcast guys!i agree with almost everything.
As for Sam being selfish, i dont think he is.& i dont even think Dean meant it wen he said that!he was just mad at Sam.
Wat i really loved was even after such heated argument & fight, they wr still in touch& Dean was still givin Sam the lodown of the case, which i thought was very sweet.& it was nice to see how Sam chose to stick with Dean!
it was particularly interesting to see the glimpse of difference in the attitude of John towards both the boys!I really think that John cares more for Sam coz he is the younger one!but v wil c more of that in the later episodes.
I personally thought Meg was the most convincing evil!she single handedly gave the boys some real hard times!one of my favorite recurring characters..
cant wait for the next podcast. keep em coming guys!i'm all ears!!!!

If you love Supernatural you should go watch the promos for the "Are You Watching Supernatural?" campain on YouTube. They are awesome. Great Podcast.

Another great podcast. These are so much fun. :) I loved the scene with the scarecrow, where Dean gets up in it's face. I kept expecting it to come alive. I love how NOT freaked out by it Dean was, it showed what an experienced hunter he is.

Have to agree with Gadfly though. I thought Sam was so wrapped in his own revenge and in not wanting to listen to his father that he was more than willing to leave two people to die. There was a time limit on this hunt - it happened only during a period of a couple of days. They couldn't go back a week later and take care of it, or go back after they killed the demon.

During the initial stages of the argument, Dean was trying to be conciliatory and then Sam goes and says "You were like 4 when mom died" belittling Dean's own grief and loss. The loss and grief shaped Dean's whole life, he lives with it to this day(erm..so to speak;). Sam got off easy with just being called selfish in this argument if you ask me because I thought that remark was really cruel. Then later he even got the best apology ever written on tv. :) He never had to apologize or admit his own wrongdoing, never has to swallow his pride. Even at the end when Dean asks "what changed your mind" Sam says "I didn't", so it's all good for Sam. He never has to humble himself.

I did like how it showed the family dynamic with that phonecall scene at the beginning. Sam gets treated like a son, Dean gets treated like a soldier. John and Sam argue, Dean doesn't get so much as a hello, he gets orders barked him. More of this dynamic bears out in later episodes.

I totally loved your podcast this time and I sense some Sam love going on=) Yay! I do love Sammy... Dean is great too but i always liked the geek-boys=)

I liked Meg, but I had a feeling something was off with her from the start. She just seemed too eager and the connection was forged too easily. I still was shocked by the whole talking to the blood issue.

Freaky indeed!

So many things to love about "Scarecrow." But one of my favorite moments was when Dean was examining it. He was so close, I was convinced the thing was going to wake up and eat his face off. So much suspense! :lol:

Also, I think this episode showed that Dean wasn't "the dumb one," the way a lot of fans seemed convinced he was. Yeah, Sam is book smart, and Dean usually lets him do the research (because Dean doesn't like it). But, when Dean's on his own (and he can't foist the research duties off on Sam), he can research and investigate a case just fine, and with great success.

And I'm loving these podcasts. Thanks, and keep 'em coming. :D

I loved Scarecrow! It was a great episode, and the Scarecrow was completely fugly and scary.

I loved the phone call when Dean told Sam he was proud of him (great job, Jensen).

This was a great podcast, girls! It's such an awsome episode. I basically agree with everything you said! :) And about Meg... I love her! Not so much in this episode, but till the end of the first season, you'll see how great Meg is. To me, best female character to appear in the show, definately. Looking forward for the next one! :)

Oh, and I was expecting you would comment something about Dean's "Dude, you're fugly" lol one of the best quotes of the season ;)

Thanks again for an awesome podcast for an awesome episode!!! I digg to watch these podcasts! SO, SO GLAD you guys started with Supernatural and can't wait for MORE! Thanks Sarah, Mia & Jackie!!!

Orthodox Jewish scary monster: the Golem
Look it up in Wiki

It's fun listening to first timers enjoying season 1 and figuring things out!

Keep it up! I'll keep listening

Like you, I loved this episode, though I don't agree with some of your comments. I think Sam was selfish to a degree: he wanted to go and find John, not because he misses his father but because he thinks John can help him get revenge on whatever killed Jessica; he's as obsessed about that as John is about getting revenge for Mary Winchester. Sam and John really are very much alike.

And while I can understand his need to strike back, he is willing to walk away from two innocent people who will die if he and Dean go after John. And that is selfish, whether it's understandable or not.

I also don't think that Dean wants to go on just because John said so, though he does tend to follow John's order (and we'll see in a later ep a reason why). We've heard Dean say at least twice so far in the season that saving people is important to him, that doing so makes him feel that what happened to the Winchesters had some purpose, so they can prevent this from happening to others.

We're also starting to get a hint that Sam's view of his childhood and his and Dean's relationship with his father is skewed: he tells us in Bugs that Dean is the favored son, but we'll see as the series progresses this isn't accurate, and we get our first glimpse here: when John talks to Sam, he's very sympathetic initially. Then, their relationship being what it is (and the two of them being so similar), they argue. But John doesn't take out his annoyance at the argument on Sam; he takes it out on Dean. We will see this repeated in a later episode.

One thing in this ep that made me scratch my head has to do with Meg: Sam is walking down this road. We see that it is straight and flat and that the road stretches without obstruction in front of him. When we first switch to that, he's walking backwards (looking, I assume, for an oncoming car to hitch a ride on), but he had to be walking forward before that (because I will never believed he walked the entire way backwards!). Yet, when he turns around and sees Meg just sitting there, there doesn't seem to be any suspicion on his part as to where the heck she came from. He didn't see her before (when he was walking forward) because he was surprised when he turned around. I can't figure out where his head was, that he didn't wonder what the heck was going on!

Yay! A new SPN podcast. (:

I totally agree with you - this episode is one of my favourites from season 1 and I love the brother dynamics in this episode.

another great podcast
am really excited that you are liking the show and are excited about it and when Meg did slash that guy's throat I was shocked.