Bush: 'Further sacrifices lie ahead': The Swamp

Posted December 30, 2006 9:14 AM

Posted by Mark Silva at 9:15 am CST

As the American death toll in Iraq nears 3,000, President Bush acknowledges that the execution of former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein will not abate the violence there.

Indeed, “the intensity of combat’’ in Iraq is understated by the U.S. death toll alone, notes Anthony Cordesman, a scholar of the war and senior analyst at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. A “far more serious’’ milestone was reached on Dec. 11, Cordesman suggests, when the total number of Americans killed or wounded in Iraq reached 25,000. And none of this takes into account varying estimates of the still much greater Iraqi casualty toll.

The hanging of Hussein may close an agonizing chapter in history that began with President Bush's vow to achieve a "regime change" with the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in March 2003. But the execution of the longtime Iraqi strongman does not alter the fundamental problems that Bush faces: Reclaiming public support in the U.S. for a war that a majority of Americans now oppose, and charting a convincing course for the victory that Bush vows to achieve before withdrawing U.S. forces.

The White House has steadfastly averted any statements of direct satisfaction with either the conviction of or death sentence handed to Hussein. Instead, the president and his advisers have portrayed them as signals of achievement by the new judiciary in Iraq – functioning courts are fundamental for any new government capable of sustaining and defending itself, the standards Bush that has set for declaring victory in Iraq.

Bush reiterated this in the statement that he issued following Hussein’s hanging.

“Saddam Hussein was executed after receiving a fair trial -- the kind of justice he denied the victims of his brutal regime,’’ the president said in the written statement issued by the White House. “Fair trials were unimaginable under Saddam Hussein's tyrannical rule. It is a testament to the Iraqi people's resolve to move forward after decades of oppression that, despite his terrible crimes against his own people, Saddam Hussein received a fair trial. This would not have been possible without the Iraqi people's determination to create a society governed by the rule of law.

“Saddam Hussein’s execution comes at the end of a difficult year for the Iraqi people and for our troops,’’ Bush said. “Bringing Saddam Hussein to justice will not end the violence in Iraq, but it is an important milestone on Iraq's course to becoming a democracy that can govern, sustain, and defend itself, and be an ally in the war on terror. We are reminded today of how far the Iraqi people have come since the end of Saddam Hussein’s rule – and that the progress they have made would not have been possible without the continued service and sacrifice of our men and women in uniform.

“Many difficult choices and further sacrifices lie ahead. Yet the safety and security of the American people require that we not relent in ensuring that Iraq's young democracy continues to progress.’’

The president’s call for patience amid continuing sacrifice in Iraq comes at another symbolic juncture in the war, the imminent death of the 3,000th American there.

Yet Cordesman suggests that the American sacrifice is not only understated, but also diminished, by concentration on the death toll.

“ December is already one of the worst months in terms of U.S. killed,’’ Cordesman writes of the approaching milestone of 3,000 dead. “It is important to understand, however, that an even number in thousands does not say anything about the fighting. In fact, a far more serious even number occurred on Dec. 11. Total U.S. killed and wounded reached 25,000 - some three years and nine months after the start of the war.

“This is a key point to remember in both reporting on total casualties and on the patterns in December,’’ he writes. “The continuing media focus on killed, versus total killed and wounded, means that reporting on the intensity and cost of combat is fundamentally wrong. This is particularly true in an era where military medicine and improved force protection had sharply reduced the number of killed relative to the number of wounded.

“Looking at the data as of December 27th, a total of 6,670 US military personnel from all four services had been wounded seriously enough to require air transport, and another 15,387 had been wounded but did not require air transport,’’ he notes. “(This latter figure can be a misleading indication of the seriousness of wounds since seriously wounded cannot always be moved by air.) The total wounded reached 22,057 -- seven times the number killed.’’

Over the course of the war, Hussein at times had served as a powerful symbol, with events surrounding his ouster and capture affecting Bush's popularity.

The toppling of the statue of the Iraqi leader as Baghdad fell on April 9, 2003, offered a significant image of hope soon after the invasion that Iraqis welcomed the U.S.-engineered overthrow.

Bush, whose job approval in public opinion polls had peaked at 90 percent after the terrorist assaults of Sept. 11, 2001, saw his approval slump to the 50s by the time of the U.S.-led invasion. But his job approval spiked to 71 percent in the Gallup Poll after the fall of Baghdad.

The capture of the toppled Iraqi leader 38 weeks after the invasion, when Hussein was found hiding in a spider-hole on a farm 10 miles southeast of Tikrit, provided a new but temporary boost for Bush.

Bush's job approval climbed to 63 percent in the Gallup Poll after the capture of Hussein in December 2003, a level of support the president has not achieved since.

But the potency of Hussein as a factor in American public opinion had been diminished by the fact the Iraqi leader did not prove to pose the threat to the outside world that Bush had maintained Hussein represented before the invasion of Iraq – the threat of weapons of mass destruction which proved instead a case of bad intelligence.

In the final Gallup Poll of 2006, Bush's job-approval rested at 35 percent, the lowest level of support for any president midway through his second term since Harry Truman.

While the Hussein execution may bring another temporary boost for Bush, the long-term impact of the war on American public opinion will likely be unchanged.

For Bush, the key to regaining any public confidence in his handling of the war is likely to lie in the success of "the new way forward" in Iraq that he promises to spell out with the arrival of the new year. Hussein is gone. The war in Iraq carries on.

Comments

Closing in on 3,000 dead soldiers,20,000 wounded,450 billion tax payer dollars spent,2-3 trillion total expected.

In return= 1 Saddam.

"First it was weapons of mass destruction. Then when there were none, it was that we had to find Saddam. We did that, but then it was that we had to put him on trial," said Spc. Thomas Sheck, 25, who is on his second tour in Iraq. "So now, what will be the next story they tell us to keep us over here?"

Good question Spc.Sheck.Maybe the "Earl's" that support Bushie can answer that one!

Posted by: Raving Loon | December 30, 2006 9:32 AM

Now we're safe. The rest of the world's evil dictators have been deterred.

Posted by: Bubba | December 30, 2006 9:34 AM

Whoopie! The guy who was never a threat to US is dead. If there is a hell, Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld will meet Saddam there for being responsible for more deaths than Saddam committed. Hopefully, if they are not impeached, the World Court will try, convict and execute them for their crimes against humanity.
After the 2008 election, it will be up to the upcoming Democrat President to catch the Bush family's friend, Osama Bin Laden, as it's obvious that the 'cheerleader in chief' has no intention of capturing him.

Posted by: B Grice | December 30, 2006 9:35 AM

In the end, the worst moment for Saddam Hussein, I suspect, was the awful realization that he was no more important than a commoner under his rule.

Posted by: Jennifer Martin | December 30, 2006 9:45 AM

Bush,Cheney,Rummy and Saddam will end up together drinking with Gunga Din " squatting by the coals giving drinks to poor damned souls" They will get a swig in hell from Gunga Din.

Posted by: c.perry | December 30, 2006 10:30 AM

With the Death of Saddam America is no safer. Plus instead our troops will now be hit harder then before. Yes Saddam was a very bad person and deserved his fate. But now we are in more danger then we where before his death the world is angry about the way his trial was carried out. We shall see how bad this gets in the next few days. Anyone who is happy about his death you are sick.

Posted by: Dale Peters | December 30, 2006 10:47 AM

I always thought that the only good thing at all to say about the Iraq war was Saddam....but somehow it all seems so .....empty!

Posted by: bill r. | December 30, 2006 10:52 AM

Bush got his revenge. It's time to bring the troops home.

The only way you're going to get Iraq under control is by putting another Saddam in power anyway.

Posted by: bb | December 30, 2006 10:54 AM

Will the hanging of Hussein really bring the people of Iraq together or will it tear them farther apart to where the fighting amongst them selves becomes worse.
Why did Bush let Cheney and Rumsfeld get them into this war? Cheney and Rumsfeld were responsible for this just as much Bush.
I wonder if the people of Iraq really appre-ciate the sacrifices by our military?

Posted by: D. Kilgore | December 30, 2006 10:57 AM

No sane human being could weep for Saddam Hussein. The guy really was the equal of Hitler and Stalin -- I can easily imagine the three of them in Hell all shaking hands right now.

However, there's much about the trial and execution of SH that's disturbing. Just a few items to chew on folks:

- Most of the developed world has outlawed capital punishment. Exceptions being the United States, Russia, and now this nascent democracy, this beacon of universal humanitarian values in the middle east.

- The blindingly swift, summary execution with no chance for appeal is ironically remeniscent of Saddam's, or Hitler's or Stalin's "justice".

- Ditto for the theatrical nature of the entire process, from the beginning of the trials till now.

- It all smacks of revenge, and revenge is seldom justice.

I was against starting the war, but after we had bungled in and there was no turning back, I had hoped that a Humanitarian democracy could be built in Iraq. That hope (which never had much to hang on anyway) has been scaled back considerably.

So despicably evil as he was, there's nothing about the fate of Saddam Hussein that makes me feel good.

Posted by: Leo T | December 30, 2006 10:59 AM

It is nice the way the whole story is not told. We continually have the slanted twisted story shoved down our throats. I think the 70% of Iraqis who were happy to be able to vote thanks to our efforts would see it different than the selected folks whose comments you have posted. You print a supposed comment of Spc.Thomas Sheck but fail to say that he is in the minority. The moral of our troops remains high and most feel that their mission is doing good for the world. The re-inlistment rate remains high, explain that would you please. And what is this poll that our media loves to speak about? What exactly are the questions that they ask? And how do they ask them?
The Islam extremists have been at war with us for 40 years, we just did not know it. And now after 9/11 it is beyond me how reasonable people cannot see the correctness in our freeing Iraq.

Posted by: U.S. Goodman | December 30, 2006 11:08 AM

I am opposed to the death penalty, even for a murderous tyrant like Saddam Hussein. Saddam's execution won't change a thing in Iraq. A troop "surge" will have no effect on the unrelenting civil war and the ever-growing ability of Sunni and Shia militias to maim and kill Americans. Bush thought Iraq would be a "slam dunk." As he and his toadies prepare to usher in the New Year, the 3,000th American service member will have died in Iraq. When will they ever learn?

Posted by: Hal Bass | December 30, 2006 11:13 AM

Reading the news on "Watching America": according to Hussein's lawyer and a US soldier the capture of Saddam in the hole was staged and filmed by a special US film team. They say he was really found close to his home city in a house praying, the day before his "capture". How true this is???

On C-SPAN this morning they read Bush's press release. The tone of this release to me is one of "stay the course". I fear he will put more troops in.

Posted by: lochnessmonster | December 30, 2006 11:18 AM

I completely agree with most of you. Raving Loon, B. Grice, Dale Peters and others. You have all got it right. Aren't you glad we don't have to answer for other people's wrong doings?

Posted by: Barney B. | December 30, 2006 11:59 AM

But, U.S. Goodman, Saddam didn't run an islamist state. He was secular. Before the war, there was no prospect of Sharia Law. Nobody asked al-Sistani for his opinions. Nobody worried about Iran having a high level of influence over Iraq. That's only happened since we invaded to eliminate their WMD, which didn't exist, and to eliminate Saddam's support for al-Qaeda, which didn't exist. This war has not curtailed radical Islam, it has promoted radical Islam. Wake up.

Posted by: robspooner | December 30, 2006 12:24 PM

If there is any justice in the world, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Frum and Pearle will all be tried in the Hague's International Court of Justice, be found guilty and hanged; they the sextet of evil and just as bad, if not more so, than Saddam. I find it hard to believe America tolerates their violence and hypocrisy let alone their utter incompetence on every level. USA dead in Iraq as of today: 2,997. Bush Day's Left in Office: 751 - still enough time to do a lot of damage. Wake Up America.

Posted by: Bosco's Mom | December 30, 2006 1:38 PM

George Jr. "Further sacrifices lie ahead."

How about if W. ponies up on this claim and makes George P. and the twins enlist in the military for his "noble cause."

If Bill Clinton were stupid enough to invade Iraq I would expect Chelsea to join up,but he wasn't and she doesn't have to.

This country does not need another GOP President,especially not another "stay the course" NeoCon like John McCain.

Like Loon said earlier,we can't keep letting the "Earl's" in the South dictate who our President is going to be.

What ever happened to Osama Bin Laden ???

Didn't he actually have something to do with 9/11 ??

Posted by: John E. | December 30, 2006 2:39 PM

U.S. Goodman you better rethink you statement and read the Marine, Navy and Army Times. The Troops are not behind Bush No More. They are angry and want the truth about Iraq no spin. And Your facts are backwords 80% of the Iraqi want us out NOW.You may think you are talking for the troops you are not. Oh and by the way my family is there now.

Posted by: Dale Peters | December 30, 2006 2:42 PM

The moral of our troops remains high and most feel that their mission is doing good for the world.
Posted by: U.S. Goodman | Dec 30, 2006 11:08:37 AM

Nice try Goodman.Watching to much Faux News these days.Unless you feel the four military papers are lying.Don't try messin with the Loon.

I'm lettin you off easy,cause it's the holiday's,but give me that BS in 07,and i'll let you have it.Got it.

Barely one in three service members approve of the way the president is handling the war, according to the new poll for the four papers (Army Times, Navy Times, Air Force Times and Marine Times). In another startling finding, only 41% now feel it was the right idea to go to war in Iraq in the first place.

Posted by: Raving Loon | December 30, 2006 3:28 PM

US regime change in 2008 ☑

Posted by: Kenny Bunkport | December 30, 2006 4:09 PM

Wonder if Rumsfeld will miss his old buddy:

http://thumbsnap.com/v/LxPI4U4m.jpg

Posted by: bb | December 30, 2006 4:20 PM

Good catch on that one Brother Dale.These wingers think they're slick,but we're like Batman and Robin bro.

Posted by: Raving Loon | December 30, 2006 5:48 PM

the only weapons of mass destruction saddam ever had were sold to him by cheney and rumsfeld. They never said a word when saddam killed thousands of his own people, using poison gas rumsfeld sold him.
now cheney and rumsfeld have killed more Iraqis than saddam ever did.
In fact, it is illegal to invade a sovereign nation without cause.
In fact, it is illegal for the US to try the head of a sovereign nation for acts committed while in office.
Fortunately, all rumsfeld and cheney's secrets die with saddam.
But sooner or later, everyone will know everything.
If Bush and cheney are forced to resign, Nancy Pelosi would become President. A great improvement over what we have now.

Posted by: martin weiss | December 30, 2006 5:51 PM

the only weapons of mass destruction saddam ever had were sold to him by cheney and rumsfeld. They never said a word when saddam killed thousands of his own people, using poison gas rumsfeld sold him.
now cheney and rumsfeld have killed more Iraqis than saddam ever did.
In fact, it is illegal to invade a sovereign nation without cause.
In fact, it is illegal for the US to try the head of a sovereign nation for acts committed while in office.
Isn't war for no good reason murder?
Fortunately, all rumsfeld and cheney's secrets die with saddam.
But sooner or later, everyone will know everything.
If Bush and cheney are forced to resign, Nancy Pelosi would become President. A great improvement over what we have now.

Posted by: martin weiss | December 30, 2006 5:54 PM

Hey guys this is why the VA is short 3-5 billion dollars this kind of bull
http://www.va.gov/gilgamesh

Posted by: Dale Peters | December 30, 2006 6:37 PM

In 2003 the Bush administration altered the course of history for the better.The megalomaniac dictator met the will of his own people he ruled, being hanged by the neck.
The world should honor President Bush and our military for stopping this tyrant because now,he can't murder another human.President Bush did what all other leaders were afraid to do...he took him out.History will now show in the future what a noble and brave leader we have in our President.
Saddam murdered over 1.5 million of his own people and tried bluffing the wrong man..... his name is George W. Bush.
Paulo

Posted by: Paulo | December 30, 2006 6:38 PM

I used to have a dog named Bosco.

Hmmmm.

Posted by: Bubba | December 30, 2006 6:50 PM

"But, U.S. Goodman, Saddam didn't run an islamist state. He was secular. Before the war, there was no prospect of Sharia Law. Nobody asked al-Sistani for his opinions. Nobody worried about Iran having a high level of influence over Iraq. That's only happened since we invaded to eliminate their WMD, which didn't exist, and to eliminate Saddam's support for al-Qaeda, which didn't exist. This war has not curtailed radical Islam, it has promoted radical Islam. Wake up.

Posted by: robspooner | Dec 30, 2006 12:24:21 PM"

You got it. 'Greater Iran' is born. Too bad. Now we face a bigger war to fix the Iraq war. 'Br'ar Rabbit' on steroids.

Keep channeling the clarity.

Posted by: c.morris | December 30, 2006 7:56 PM

bb,

Thanks for that picture. It can't be seen enough.
Rummy shakes hands with Satan.

Any pictures of GWB in cheerleader uniform is also appr.

Posted by: c.morris | December 30, 2006 8:00 PM

We got Saddam. So what? Our invasion of Iraq has put a Shiite theocracy in power which is going to be worse than Saddam ever was. They are masters of murder and ethnic cleansing to create Shiite enclaves. The execution of Saddam was nothing more than a Shiite revenge killing. It's interesting that his trial for killing Shiites came ahead of the alledged use of poinson gas against the Kurds which killed far more people. So we were party to satisfying Shiite bloodlust. The Bush administration had no idea that they were stepping into a centuries old conflict and that we would be caught in the middle. What we have seen in Iraq is nothing less than criminal incompetence and naivette from this administration.

Posted by: Fred carani | December 30, 2006 8:22 PM

"So despicably evil as he was, there's nothing about the fate of Saddam Hussein that makes me feel good.

Posted by: Leo T | Dec 30, 2006 10:59:33 AM"

Leo T,

He was a bastard, but he was our bastard.

Posted by: c.morris | December 30, 2006 8:45 PM

Anybody notice that we, in America I guess, can't seem to get access to a video of Saddam's hanging? I have been looking, but I guess we just can't take the truth.

Posted by: c.morris | December 30, 2006 9:19 PM

Your "analysis" of the Saddam murder carried no mention of Osama bin Laden. Keep up the "good" work.

Posted by: c. morris | December 30, 2006 9:22 PM

“Fair trials were unimaginable under Saddam Hussein's tyrannical rule. It is a testament to the Iraqi people's resolve to move forward after decades of oppression that, despite his terrible crimes against his own people, Saddam Hussein received a fair trial. This would not have been possible without the Iraqi people's determination to create a society governed by the rule of law."

indonesia. europe. turkey. saudi arabia. east africa. sudan. lebanon.

thousands of lives. billions of dollars. and we have not begun to attack the root of the problems of radical islam.

fair trials in iraq are as important as feathers on a pig. do not attempt to tell us that iraq has always been at the center of american foreign policy.

Posted by: jane | December 30, 2006 9:26 PM

...and, your "editorial" about saddam does not mention the bush family! if you are going to be taken seriously, you have to acknowledge that the bush family, cheney, runsfeld...the lot of them!...they were all allies of saadam at various points.

don't sit there and lament the iraqis who died under his regime unless you call the roll of people who aided him in his grim work.

"If it was an unusually swift appeals process -- and by American standards, it was warp speed -- then it was also an open-and-shut case. Hussein and his henchmen were found guilty of rounding up and killing 148 Shiite Muslims from the northern Iraqi town of Dujail in 1982, in retaliation for an assassination attempt on Hussein there."

in other words, international judicial standards be damned!

"Hussein's regime is believed to have murdered at least 300,000 Iraqis. He offered no mercy to his own people, and he deserved none from them. "

how many iraqis have died in the insurgency and from u.s. bombs?

spare us your indignation.

Posted by: Sickened | December 30, 2006 9:38 PM

Here is a soundless, incomplete video of the event.

http://video.on.nytimes.com/ifr_main.jsp?nsid=b20ca33a9:10fd67e7d20:2353&fr_story=ef62d9032ea946d555a7ce2b5bcc362345edc920&st=1167535941483&mp=FLV&cpf=false&fvn=9&fr=123006_101020_28ed9693x10fd676ba22xw5116&rdm=631634.7181013016

Posted by: c.morris | December 30, 2006 9:42 PM

I'm reading the Tribune analysis about Saddams hanging and its all about Bush and his approval ratings and how it will effect his popularity. WHO cares about what effect it will have on Bush. I care much more on what effect this BS will have on our country. This huge mistake just keeps snowballing with no end in sight. Its no wonder Bush declared himself immune from international law and courts. He can breathe easier now that another connection to his past has been executed.

Posted by: Lou kaye | December 30, 2006 10:04 PM

To my lefty Swamp friends and enemys...HAPPY NEW YEAR.....(except false military personel)
And thank God you softie cowards were not around during W.W.2--Keep up all your left wing blather so the real patriots of this world can keep your key boards safe!
Peace be with you....(except the phoney JohnE.)
Paulo

Posted by: Paulo | December 30, 2006 10:36 PM

Um, US Goodman,

That the reenlistment rate remains high says a lot about the soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines and their commitment to their brothers and sisters in arms -- not about the disastrous policy that today got us a handsome trophy which will save about as many American lives as a purple finger or the death of the latest "number two" man.

And about that morale...I read one report that said troop morale in Iraq was at "rock bottom." Another describing it as "eroding." These came from the Christian Science Monitor and the Washington Times -- hardly Mother Jones or the Nation.

Posted by: BJF | December 30, 2006 11:13 PM

c.morris---Rummy shakes hands with Satan???
J.F.K's father was for Hitler....Jimmy Carter wrote "love" letters to the Ayatollah Khomeini to get the hostages released--- (they were both religious men????)--- and yet,a photo of Rummy shaking hands with Saddam is your debate of what?
All leaders shook his hand from France,Germany,Russia and all over the world.Why???----OIL!
Politics makes strange bed fellows.
Happy New Year to you and your 86 yr.old father!
Paulo

Posted by: Paulo | December 30, 2006 11:16 PM

Man, I never knew the comments for a news article could turn into a verbal battle by Inhabitants of the Short Bus.

I especially liked the "I'm anti-capital punishment" statements. They made me laugh.

Posted by: Alex Everett | December 31, 2006 12:31 AM

If you have any moral and intellectual honesty you will take a look at all the evidence linking Saddam Hussein to anti American terrorism at www.regimeofterror.com and www.husseinandterror.com before rendering a judgement about this war based on MSM soundbytes and headlines, which would be a really shallow education on the threat Iraq once posed to the U.S.

Posted by: Mark | December 31, 2006 3:09 AM

When we can show a man being hanged on television, no matter what he has done in his life, we must ask what we have become and what do we want to be?

Posted by: lochnessmonster | December 31, 2006 6:33 AM

the next page of the book contains the account of countless shiites done to death for their cowardly subservience to Bush just for the taste of revenge for 148 traitors that belonged to their holy sect of infamous schismatics.

Posted by: Syed Azmathullah | December 31, 2006 8:44 AM

Posted by: Azmathullah | December 31, 2006 8:47 AM

Note to moderator:

Please fix c.morris's link above. It's messing up the margins.

Thanks!

Posted by: Figbash | December 31, 2006 10:53 AM

Morris likes to think outside the box.
Happy New Year to all of you.
Mark Silva

Posted by: Mark Silva | December 31, 2006 10:58 AM

B Grice, I can understand the anger I read in your letter. I feel it, too.

It's important, though, not to let anger get in the way of clear thought.

No, Saddam Hussein does NOT appear to have been in possession of WMD's, which was our original reason for a need to invade Iraq immediately so as to avoid our own destruction (before the reason became obtaining the freedom for that nation). That doesn't mean he wasn't a threat to us -- it's clear in my mind he WAS a threat even though not an imminent one, and I'm not going to waste any tears over his death. It doesn't excuse the current occupant's needless rush to overthrow given that we had time to think the whole plan through better, nor does it excuse his unwillingness to plan for eventualities such as the Iraqi people NOT embracing us all as their liberators and strewing rose petals in our path.

Bush will likely NOT be impeached, given the slim majority the Democrats hold in Congress. It's important to remember that impeachment is not a LEGAL action so much as it is a POLITICAL one, used to hurt your opponent by slinging mud on him. One ought never undertake such an action without being ready to withstand the reaction that will occur because of it. World Courts to try Bush et al. on crimes against humanity are also highly unlikely even if it makes a pleasant fantasy to think of them. They have to apprehend him first, you see, and that's just not going to happen. You're on your own re: having a "Highest Judge of All" send the whole bunch to Hell. It's not something any of us are going to see.

Most important of all, do NOT assume there will be a Democratic president in 2008. That's still a very uphill battle, and none of us can afford to take the results of that election for granted without working every single day until the election to assure that the next Democratic candidate is right for the office and that we support him or her to election.

Posted by: John | December 31, 2006 11:23 AM

John,

Good post. Few people here see the situation in Iraq clearly -- saying either Iraq was no threat to us and/or the region at all, or that it was indeed an imminent threat. Both of those positions are wrong.

I disagree with one aspect of your otherwise cogent remarks about impeachment. Bush is unlikely to be impeached not just because the Democcrats' majority is too small. Democrats by and large just don't want to go down that road at all. I think if they had two-thirds of both houses they wouldn't impeach. Many pols on both sides of the aisle would rather not see impeachment becoming a commonly used political tactic.

Happy New Year, all.

Pax vobiscum.

Posted by: Juanito | December 31, 2006 2:14 PM

Saddam's guards were taunting "long live Al-Sadr" as Saddam was being executed.

That's not justice, it's vengeance. And the majority of the Arab world will not see it as justice either.

However you want to cut it, Bush has become allied with Shiite militants, and the U.S. has become what it claims to despise.

Posted by: tom | December 31, 2006 2:25 PM

The most chilling part of the pictures I've seen are the hooded executioners. If one didn't know the context of the pictures they would be indistinguishable from the terrorist videos we have seen of hostages being beheaded. Yet this is supposed to be the rule of law to show that Iraq is on the path to democracy? Right.

Interestingly, both Saddam and Milosevic were killed before they could be fully held accountable "for what they had done". Both of these cases were victors justice intended to keep detrimental facts and information from seeing the light of day.

Posted by: Fred Carani | December 31, 2006 3:18 PM

Lochness,

Nice urban legend about Saddam's capture.

About the showing of Saddam's public hanging, didn't the American Media show the four Americans being hung from a bridge in Baghdad after their bodies were burned by the Islamic Terrorists?

Posted by: Terry | December 31, 2006 3:20 PM

Interested in anyone's take on the timing of the execution. Yes it was rushed through at blinding speed. But what does it say that it took place on one of if not the actual slowest news day of the whole year, the Thursday night ahead of the weekend of New Year's Eve.

This was not, apparently, timed for maximum impact but it seems for minimum impact. I wonder what this says about the Bush Administration's current mindset. Have they finally realized that 1) violence will likely surge following the execution and 2) this event is unlikely to alter the political momentum against the war domestically? Does that mean that they are starting to adjust to a "reality-based" worldview?

Simply pondering, any thoughts?

Posted by: Bryan | December 31, 2006 4:08 PM

"c.morris---Rummy shakes hands with Satan???
J.F.K's father was for Hitler....Jimmy Carter wrote "love" letters to the Ayatollah Khomeini to get the hostages released--- (they were both religious men????)--- and yet,a photo of Rummy shaking hands with Saddam is your debate of what?
All leaders shook his hand from France,Germany,Russia and all over the world.Why???----OIL!
Politics makes strange bed fellows.
Happy New Year to you and your 86 yr.old father!
Paulo

Posted by: Paulo | Dec 30, 2006 11:16:24 PM"

Paulo,
Thanks for the Happy happy, same to you. My old dad is still gettin' it done. I hope I have his heart and pancreas.

Henry Ford was a virulent Jew hater, and so was Lindberg, both American heros.

America needs to air this stuff out. So be it.

Sorry about the blown margins, but it's happened before.

Posted by: c.morris | December 31, 2006 7:06 PM

Happy New Year.

Posted by: Bill | December 31, 2006 8:14 PM

Happy New Year swampers!!!!!

Posted by: bill r. | December 31, 2006 10:20 PM

Bryan,

You and lochness need to get together and drink more kool-aid.

Posted by: Terry | December 31, 2006 10:30 PM

c.morris--Saddam's hanging is on the drudge report...it even shows him going dowwwwwwn.But why the scarf or towel around his neck before they put the noose around it???
Paulo

Posted by: Paulo | January 1, 2007 3:16 AM

Raving Loon:

"In return= 1 Saddam".

12/31/06 "The Independent" -- -- We've shut him up. The moment Saddam's hooded executioner pulled the lever of the trapdoor in Baghdad yesterday morning, Washington's secrets were safe. The shameless, outrageous, covert military support which the United States - and Britain - gave to Saddam for more than a decade remains the one terrible story which our presidents and prime ministers do not want the world to remember. And now Saddam, who knew the full extent of that Western support - given to him while he was perpetrating some of the worst atrocities since the Second World War - is dead".

Robert Fisk.

...........That 1 Saddam was well worth shutting up.

Posted by: Robert Carey | January 1, 2007 3:31 AM

Why would ANYBODY WANT to see a video of somebody being hanged?

Posted by: Leo T | January 1, 2007 9:33 AM

Just put a Democrat in the White House before it is too late. Total Dead (Better Off) = 3,000. Total wounded, mangled and disabled (with less benefits for families) is 22,000. These figures do not count the 20% menatlly ill from being there.

Bring home everyone on rented cruise

ships; make each and every soldier a hero and forget the whole thing. Let them do their own work.

Develop alternative fuels instead of saying this is a war on terrorism. In the contrary, this war is CREATING terrorism. Achieving peace is to understand and bargain. The Muslim terrorists are acting in self-defense, not us. We just want to protecet our oil interests. This is a very sad scenario.

Bring "Johnny" home!

John Kelly, C.P.A., President
John Kelly Enterprises, Inc.
Hard Knocks University
hardknocksuniversity.biz

Posted by: John Kwlly | January 1, 2007 9:43 AM

Bring home everyone on rented cruise

ships; make each and every soldier a hero and forget the whole thing. Let them do their own work.

Bring "Johnny" home!

John Kelly, C.P.A., President
John Kelly Enterprises, Inc.
Hard Knocks University
hardknocksuniversity.biz

Posted by: John Kelly | January 1, 2007 9:44 AM

Juanito....I think you take a little too literally some things that are said by the left.
Many people "do" understand Iraq was a threat.
Imminent? possible. But as it turned out not a
catastrophe ready to happen. Tell me what made Iraq more of a threat than Many other countries
such as N. Korea, Iran, Syria, Lebanon, or any of atleast a dozen more? Is this how you wish to deal with those countries mentioned? I think a lot of people feel we rushed into this and our haste made them make to many mistakes. I think the administration misread the Iraqi's makeup and did not think this out at all.

Posted by: bill r. | January 1, 2007 9:45 AM

Paulo,

Well, I checked it out.
They say you can turn peanut butter into crap, but you can't turn crap into peanut butter.

This video is going to fire up the Sunni base like an open bottle of gin at a AAA meeting. Look out.

The scarf and towel?? Yeah, who knows. At first I thought courtesy, but then, nah!

Does it make it a slower or faster death??

Posted by: c.morris | January 1, 2007 10:12 AM

Terry,

What's your theory on the timing, sir? They just couldn't wait 1,2,3 days to execute Mr. Hussein it simply had to be done the Friday before New Year's after a trial that took a year for a tyrant who had been in powed over 3 decades? I hope I don't ever see you refer to someone else as "naive."

As another Swamper also pointed out, I do think it was eerie watching the hooded men preparing to execute Sadam. If one did not know what they were watching, they would have though that to be a terrorist-produced video. Images are extremely important, and I don't see this lasting image as being of benefit to America.

Posted by: Bryan | January 1, 2007 2:30 PM

c.morris--I just read that Saddam refused to wear a hood.I looked up why hoods are used in hangings and it's because sometimes the eye-balls jetison out of their sockets at great speeds, (maybe injuring an innocent witness,bystander or a camel) because of the pressure brought upon by the noose snap.
The towel wrap around the neck still has me confused,but I think it's so the neck of the tryant won't show any bruises or skin abrasions when the body is delivered back to the family members for burial. Oh,and how about that noose!You could of hung a water buffalo on that...those Iraqis know how to make a great noose,they have my vote for best noose makers of 2006.
Paulo

Posted by: Paulo | January 1, 2007 8:41 PM

I have heard that in some hangings the snap is so violent and the noose so tight that the head becomes separated from the body. The towel could've been there to prevent Saddam from being decapitated. That noose had such a big knot that I'd wager it could decapitate somebody without some padding.

This thread is full of literal gallows humor. I just wanted to be the first person to say it that way.

Posted by: Bill | January 1, 2007 10:43 PM

There are two c.morris' posting here!
Hey, c.morris! I claim seniority!

c.morris

Posted by: c.morris | January 2, 2007 11:42 AM

Would the real c morris please stand up!!!!

Posted by: bill r. | January 2, 2007 6:31 PM

I am the real C.Morris, as I shall go back to capitalizing my init. and last name.

You other 'c.morris', pick a new handle!

bill r.
You know who I am! Poster of parody lyrics, defender of the little man, (me), and lover of gin, women, M-14's, Full Metal Jacket, Stanley Kubrick, Vietnam war history expert, and all the rest!!

Posted by: c.morris | January 2, 2007 6:47 PM

PS:

Oh yeah, and 'top ten' lists!

Posted by: C.Morris | January 2, 2007 7:06 PM

The 'c.morris' impostor said:

"Your "analysis" of the Saddam murder carried no mention of Osama bin Laden. Keep up the "good" work.

Posted by: c. morris | Dec 30, 2006 9:22:11 PM"

I don't even know what that means!

C.Morris

Posted by: C.Morris | January 2, 2007 7:09 PM

C Mo,

I was wondering what happened to you when I saw you having a "sane" conversation with Paulo.