(Chicago Tribune photos by Pete Souza)
Posted by Mark Silva at 7:10 am CDT
Orangeburg, S.C. -- In a world of one-liners, some of the longer answers that emerged from the first debate of the Democratic candidates last night could become more memorable for voters, and more meaningful for the fate of the candidates seeking the presidency in 2008.
Why are Republicans so eager to see Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton accept the party's nomination, the senator from New York was asked. "It is a perverse form of flattery,'' she replied.
Why had Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois omitted Israel when he was asked to name the three best allies of the United States? "Israel has been one of our most important allies,'' he added on prompting.
Why had former Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina billed his campaign for a $400 haircut? "That was a mistake,'' he said, and so would be any impression that he has lost the sense of his humble roots.
For a closer look at some longer answers of the 90-minute debate, the first of the campaign season:
"Senator Clinton,'' moderator Brian Williams, asked, "recent national polls indicate the majority of the general public has an unfavorable view of you right now at this point in time. Why do you think Republicans are looking forward to running against you with so much zeal?
"Well, Brian, you'd have to ask them,'' she said. "I'm sure that they would give you all the reasons. But from my perspective, it may have something to do with the fact that I have stood up for what I believed in. I tried to achieve universal health care back in '93 and '94, and I still have the scars from that experience.
"You know, I take it as a perverse form of flattery, actually, that if they weren't worried, they would not be so vitriolic in their criticism of me, because I believe that the country is ready for change.
"I believe America is ready now for universal health care,'' Clinton said. "It is ready for a new energy policy; it is ready to deal with global climate change; it is ready to clean up the government after the corruption and the cronyism of the Bush years; it is ready once again to be a leader in the world, where we create alliances instead of alienation. I think that's what they're most worried about, because I am serious about doing that. I am serious about getting the presidency once again to lead, and I believe I'm ready to do that.''
Then, for Obama: "What are America's three most important allies around the world?''
"Well, I think the European Union as a whole has been a long-standing ally of ours,'' Obama said. "And through NATO, we've been able to make some significant progress. Afghanistan, in particular, is an area where we should be focusing. NATO has made real contributions there. Unfortunately, because of the distraction of Iraq, we have not finished the job in terms of making certain that we are driving back the Taliban, stabilizing the Karzai government, capturing bin Laden and making sure that we've rooted out terrorism in that region.
"We also have to look east, because increasingly the center of gravity in this world is shifting to Asia,'' he said. "Japan has been an outstanding ally of ours for many years, but obviously China is rising, and it's not going away. They're neither our enemy nor our friend. They're competitors. But we have to make sure that we have enough military-to-military contact and forge enough of a relationship with them that we can stabilize the region. That's something I'd like to do as president.''
This prompted Williams to offer Obama a followup: "I didn't hear you mention Israel, and I ask because there is a quote attributed to your name. You said recently, "No one is suffering more than the Palestinian people." Do you stand by that remark?''
"Well, keep in mind what the remark actually, if you have the whole thing, said,'' Obama replied. "What I said is, nobody has suffered more than the Palestinian people from the failure of the Palestinian leadership to recognize Israel, to renounce violence and to get serious about negotiating peace and security for the region.
"Israel has been one of our most important allies around the world,'' he said. "It's the only established democracy in the Middle East. It's the linchpin of much of our efforts in the Middle East.
"But the United States has to get engaged in this region, and that's something that this president has not done,'' the senator said. "That's something that I intend to do.
Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware was asked: "What three nations other than Iraq represent to you the biggest threat to the United States?''
"The biggest threat to the United States is right now North Korea,'' Biden said. "Iran, not as big a threat, but a long-term threat; and quite frankly, the tendency of Putin to move in a totalitarian direction, which would unhinge all that's going on positively in Europe.
"And it requires us to make two fundamental changes in this administration's policy,'' he said. "We have to jettison this notion of preemption as a doctrine, and we have to jettison the notion of regime change. Replace it with prevention, open our ears and talk before things become crises; and two, we have to move in a direction of making sure that we deal with the one thing that no one's talking about, and that is conduct change, not regime change.
"Think of the folly of what this administration has acted on,'' Biden said. "It has said, by the way, give up your weapons, the very thing that's keeping us from attacking you, and once you give them up, then we're going to take you out. That's the logic of this administration. That's why we've lost respect all over the world.
"My goal would be to re-establish America's place in the world.''
Edwards, a wealthy trial lawyer and son of mill-workers from South Carolina, was asked about his $400 haircut – not for the cost of the cut itself, but because his campaign paid for it.
"Well, that was a mistake which we've remedied,'' Edwards said. "It was simply a mistake.
"But if the question is, Brian, whether I live a privileged and blessed lifestyle now, the answer to that is yes; a lot of us do,'' Edwards said. "But it's not where I come from, and I've not forgotten where I come from.
"Many people in the audience and the viewing audience know that my dad worked in textile mills all his life, and I can remember vividly -- my dad's here tonight, and I was born here in South Carolina -- I can remember vividly my dad after church one Sunday when I was about 10 years old taking us, just our whole family, into a restaurant -- I was dressed up; I was very proud to be there -- and we sat, got our menus, looked at the menus. And the waitress came over, and my father said, "I'm sorry we have to leave." I didn't understand why. Why did we have to leave? I was embarrassed. I found out when we got out the reason we had to leave is he couldn't pay the prices that were on the menu.
"The reason I'm running for president of the United States is so that everybody in this country can have the same kind of chance as I've had.''
Some of the best answers involved no words at all – as candidates raised their hands to answer some questions posed by the moderator. Asked if any of them had guns in their homes as adults, five raised their hands. Clinton, Obama and Edwards did not. "Shotgun,'' Biden later said, "not pistol.''
This led to a revealing question, and answer, for Bill Richardson, the governor of New Mexico.
"Gov. Richardson, you are currently, if our research is correct, the NRA's favorite presidential candidate, declared, in either party, based on their ratings system,'' Williams asked. "Did anything about the massacre at Virginia Tech make you rethink any part of your position on guns?
"You're right, Brian. I'm a westerner,'' Richardson said. "I'm a governor of New Mexico. The Second Amendment is precious in the West. But I want to just state for the record, a vast, vast majority of gun owners are law-abiding. This is an issue that deals with two fundamental problems in our system right now.
"The first is mental illness. We should ensure that all federal and state initiatives deal with making sure that mental -- those with mental illnesses cannot get a gun.
"Secondly, I was for instant background checks. We have to make sure that those background checks are state and local, states are properly funded to be able to detect those problems.
"Lastly, in this country, mental health is not treated the same as other illnesses.
"There should be mental health parity in this country, and we don't have it,'' he said. "And we should finally find ways to ensure that our schools get the help they need to detect these mentally ill patients.''
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Comments
Three best allies?
What is that? Like "five best quarterbacks" or "three favorite beers"?
God, what a stupid question.
Posted by: bb | April 27, 2007 7:40 AM
The big winners in last night's Democrat debate? Rudi Giuliani, John McCain, Mitt Romney and Fred Thompson.
Posted by: Former Leftist | April 27, 2007 7:48 AM
Pretty good summary of highlights. EAR
Posted by: car@reitan.info | April 27, 2007 7:49 AM
Someone should have told the idiots who ran the debate that it was on radio too. And "Everybody who believes [x] raise their hand" doesn't exactly play to the medium's strengths.
Posted by: Bill | April 27, 2007 7:50 AM
The AP reports on an aspect of this debate that the Tribune doesn't want you to know:
"A flock of small jets took flight from Washington Thursday, each carrying a Democratic presidential candidate to South Carolina for the first debate of the political season.
For Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton, Barack Obama, Chris Dodd and Joe Biden, it was wheels up shortly after they voted in favor of legislation requiring that U.S. troops begin returning home from Iraq in the fall.
No one jet pooled, no one took commercial flights to save money, fuel or emissions."
Read it and weep, AlGore worshippers. Their carbon footprint is as big as a John Edwards mansion. Their hypocrisy is total.
Posted by: Frmer Leftist | April 27, 2007 7:55 AM
Except for Bill Richardson, who has been a governor, none of these candidates has had any successful major administrative experience. Can you think of one national corporation that would hire a person with no major leadership experience to be its CEO? Like it or not, the federal government is a major administrative responsibility. That is why, in the history of the nation, only two presidents were elected out of the Senate. (And I did not forget Dennis Kucinich who led Cleveland into bankruptcy as its mayor).
Posted by: Shanika | April 27, 2007 8:11 AM
Neo-cons,
Enjoy yourselves, your candidates' turn is coming.
I can't wait to watch the tap dance they'll do on the Iraq "Mission Accomplished" Civil War.
Speaking of the Iraq Civil War. It's time to bring the referees (that'd be our troops) home.
Posted by: Doug Zook | April 27, 2007 8:37 AM
The comments display the reality of the sock puppet in all its glory. How sad.
Posted by: Joe | April 27, 2007 8:43 AM
I love ole Barack's answer to a question about his relationships with soon-to-be-convicted felon Tony Rezko: I have thousands of donors. One of them has ethical behavior. I have denounced his ethical behavior.
Spoken like a true Illinois DemoRAT!!
Posted by: John D | April 27, 2007 8:59 AM
...bruce identity profile transfer...complete
...building Former Leftist profile...
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Canned comments...loading
"the biased liberal media"
"it is Bill Clinton's fault"
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Canned comments...complete
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Former Leftist identity profile...complete
Posted by: RNC Talking Pointbot 3000 | April 27, 2007 9:02 AM
bb,
I couldn't agree more.
On the other hand, couldn't our candidates take exception to the premise of a question?
Posted by: Doug Zook | April 27, 2007 9:17 AM
No one jet pooled, no one took commercial flights to save money, fuel or emissions."
Read it and weep, AlGore worshippers. Their carbon footprint is as big as a John Edwards mansion. Their hypocrisy is total.
Posted by: Frmer Leftist | Apr 27, 2007 7:55:49 AM
Now! Now! Former Leftist surely you've heard the old saying " do as i say, not as i do". it was made for Liberal Dems', it's their out !
Posted by: Fully Recovered Liberal | April 27, 2007 9:25 AM
CEO of the country, huh? Shanika, I believe that you are right to a certain extent. The problem is that we elected the wrong CEO. Bush was a horrible private industry executive. He ran his ouil businesses and the Terxas Rangers in to the ground. His best achievement was becoming governor because the convoluted rules of fund accounbting that governments use. They can spin the overspending to project a surplus. It covers up any shortfalls they have as legislators. You can always blame the other side.
Posted by: Todd M | April 27, 2007 9:25 AM
Neo-cons,
Enjoy yourselves, your candidates' turn is coming.
Posted by: Doug Zook | Apr 27, 2007 8:37:51 AM
Doug: I sense you weren't pleased by the performances of that stalwart group, I thought Mr. Kucinich and Mr. Gravel was very representative of what you'll get with the Democrats. I was a little disappointed with the fact they all took private jets though, with global warming and the oil shortages, it makes them look just a little teeny weeny hypocritical, don't you think Doug ?
Posted by: Don B | April 27, 2007 9:42 AM
I thought Hillary sounded very confident, while Obama sounded much more tentative, to the point where I wasn't sure their microphones were set at comparable levels. It must be their delivery styles...
I was pleasantly surprised by Chris Dodd, who sounded experienced, smart, and compassionate, with a little small town mayoral bluster thrown in.
Edwards sounded a bit pre-packaged and defensive, and Bill Richardson seemed out of his league and plagued by unflattering camera angles. Biden, Kucinich and Gravel added color -- but didn't seem to want to be taken seriously.
Posted by: Kenny Bunkport | April 27, 2007 9:51 AM
Don B,
Yeah, I think there's room for improvement.
Who do you predict to be the winner of the upcoming Republican debate?
Posted by: Doug Zook | April 27, 2007 10:29 AM
"No one jet pooled, no one took commercial flights to save money, fuel or emissions."
Posted by: Frmer Leftist | Apr 27, 2007 7:55:49 AM
Bruce, please provide us with the link to this article. I'd like to see whether this was was actually in the AP report or whether you "forgot" to close your quote by a sentence.
Posted by: Jeff C. | April 27, 2007 10:29 AM
[quote]
I love ole Barack's answer to a question about his relationships with soon-to-be-convicted felon Tony Rezko: I have thousands of donors. One of them has ethical behavior. I have denounced his ethical behavior.
Spoken like a true Illinois DemoRAT!!
Posted by: John D | Apr 27, 2007 8:59:59 AM
[/quote]
John D, will you settle for anything less than having Obama drop out of the campaign and get thrown in jail, all for associating with someone who is unethical? Because, based upon your frequent postings, I can't think of what that might be.
Posted by: BC | April 27, 2007 10:30 AM
Obama,
You forgot Poland.....
Posted by: Smirky McFliighsuit | April 27, 2007 10:42 AM
Of the Democratic presidential candidates, Barack O'bama is the only one I would sleep with. Well.... maybe John Edwards after a couple of beers. But definitely Barack.
Just keeping with the intelligence level of this thread.
Posted by: gypsy | April 27, 2007 10:49 AM
I am sooo happy that Obama is 'proud' of his vote against going into Iraq. I am happy that Hillary thinks her vote was in error. We all know who voted for and against Iraq. Could we stop beating that dead horse and move on to getting the troops out? And us Illinoisans were tired if the gubernatorial race last year. This presidential run is really going to be worse, 11 months to primary and 18 to election. Oh Boy.
Posted by: pjb | April 27, 2007 11:02 AM
Gypsy, Former Leftist, Bruce,
Dude, you are getting stranger by the post.
Back away from Darth, the cold, the kool-aid, Dick Cheney (oops, redundent), and other delusional protestations against the truth - which is - our troops are refereeing the Iraq Civil War.
Bring 'em home, now!
Posted by: Doug Zook | April 27, 2007 11:19 AM
Doug: The so called debate last night was hardly what i would call a debate. It reminded me more of a Q and A. Mr. Obama was asked what he would do if attacked and they KNOW who did it. He answered he would first find out if intel was correct, it was a pointed question that we KNEW who did it, which might very well of meant intel was checked and verified. He seemed a bit timid in his response, I think that hurt him some-what. The other folks of course were tripping over each other for strong , immediate response, except the two knuckleheads.
Back to your question, I really don't know in that type of format, but pressed for an answer I would probably go with Mr. Romney or Mr. Giuliani. I think Mr. McCains better days are behind him for a Prez. run. I don't think the others will get the nod.
Posted by: Don B | April 27, 2007 11:26 AM
Don B,
What's being too prudent about re-checking intel before launching a counter-attack?
I mean, didn't we KNOW Saddam had WMDs?
Posted by: Jeff C. | April 27, 2007 11:44 AM
I agree with Don B. on Mr. Obama choking on the intel question. He seemed to have a problem processing the question topics and immediately replying with a poignant response.
I also believe he'll get better. When he's on, he's by far the best speaker in the field from either party.
Posted by: dave k | April 27, 2007 11:50 AM
In the after-debate interviews I thought Joe Biden said something that was a very, very good idea.
On the topic of Iraq, he said he would like to have a 90 minute debate with Iraq as the sole subject. I think that'd be very useful, for both parties, when they get wittled down to two or three candidates each.
Posted by: dave k | April 27, 2007 11:53 AM
Any comments Little Johnny Hot Air? How many does this make Johnny Air Blower?
U.S. Rep. Rick Renzi, R-Ariz., could soon step down in the wake of a federal investigation into his involvement in a federal land swap deal and FBI raids of an insurance agency owned by his wife.
His resignation could come as early as Friday or soon after, according to sources familiar with the matter.
Posted by: Raving Loon | April 27, 2007 11:56 AM
What's being too prudent about re-checking intel before launching a counter-attack?
Posted by: Jeff C. | Apr 27, 2007 11:44:22 AM
Jeff: Nothing at all, Mr. Williams asked a pointed question that it was already verified, that we KNEW. (i.e It was confirmed) He was only trying to save time, he just wanted to know what his response would be. Mr Obama missed the nuance of the question, and his response, i believe was a bit timid.
Posted by: Don B | April 27, 2007 12:03 PM
Loon,
Yeah, Renzi is on the list. Jeff said the dems are equally culpable. Not according to the CREW scorecard. Guess that grenade Jeff threw me was a dud.
What do Sens. Conrad Burns (R-MT), Bill Frist (R-TN) and Rick Santorum (R-PA) have in common? (Hint: they're frequent subjects on TPMmuckraker.)
The three men are the most corrupt senators in Congress, according to a new list of the most corrupt lawmakers in Washington.
It's the second year now that Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) has released its list of 20 muckiest senators and congresspeople.
Although the group names the trio as "most corrupt," it doesn't rank the 17 House members they finger.
The group also identified five "members to watch" -- that is, folks with muck in their past that could be a harbinger of muck to come.
The list, in no particular order, is after the jump.
Here's the list:
Members of the Senate:
Conrad Burns (R-MT)
Bill Frist (R-TN)
Rick Santorum (R-PA)
Members of the House:
Alan Mollohan (D-WV)
Roy Blunt (R-MO)
Marilyn Musgrave (R-CO)
Ken Calvert (R-CA)
Richard Pombo (R-CA)
John Doolittle (R-CA)
Rick Renzi (R-AZ)
Tom Feeney (R-FL)
Pete Sessions (R-TX)
Katherine Harris (R-FL)
John Sweeney (R-NY)
William Jefferson (D-LA)
Charles Taylor (R-NC)
Jerry Lewis (R-CA)
Maxine Waters (D-CA)
Gary Miller (R-CA)
Curt Weldon (R-PA)
Five Members to Watch:
Chris Cannon (R-UT)
J.D. Hayworth (R-AZ)
Dennis Hastert (R-IL)
John Murtha (D-PA)
Don Sherwood (R-PA)
Permalink | TOPICS: Alan Mollohan: Conrad Burns:
Posted by: dt | Apr 26, 2007 11:22:32 PM
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Posted by: dt | April 27, 2007 12:36 PM
BC, my comments about Barack Obama have been few and far between. So not sure what you are getting at here. But I will say this about ole Obama: For someone who claims to be different, not your average politician, a "breath of fresh air," he's about as typical as any politican and his air is about as fresh as the drive through the Skyway.
Doug Zook, why in the world would you think "gypsy" is Bruce?? Have you seen some of Gypsy's posts, especially the one that calls Bush racist for dancing with black people the other day? No, "gypsy" is part of the Loony Left contigent.
Raving Loon, if Rep. Renzi did something wrong, then he should by all means resign and be investigated. So, on that score, when will we get Sen. Obama's resignation? Sen. Clintoon? Gov. Blablooeyavich?
Posted by: John D | April 27, 2007 12:55 PM
I can't wait to hear the Republic Party debate
I want to hear all the GOP goons explain exactly why we should not only stay in Iraq but also why we should continue to escalate our participation in the Iraqi's civil war.
Posted by: HVAC Man | April 27, 2007 2:07 PM
dt, when did I ever mention the CREW scorecard? The one that Trainwreck Coburn leads as most uncorruptible?
You said Abramoff was the republicans' mess. I retorted that Harry Reid and Tom Daschle accepted more money from Abramoff (through indian tribe intermediaries who were Abramoff's clients) than almost any other senators.
Here's a link to the transcript of Tim Russert embarassing Reid and Daschle by calling them out on their acceptance of Abramoff money in front of the entire nation on "Meet the Press." Thanks for giving me the chance to link it.
You keep palming those, okay?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10721401/
Posted by: Jeff | April 27, 2007 3:10 PM
atlast…the real senator obama, fumbling, stumbling and not ready for prime time. bijou. poisson d'avril.
after candidate obama responded to two foreign policy questions, with indirect, rambling answers, he was able to use the combative responses of citoyen kucinich and mr. gravel as a foil for his second try at sounding decisive. as reported…
'Asked to name America's three major allies, Obama embarked on a world tour, naming the European Union and Japan and trailing off into a discussion of China.
"I didn't hear you mention Israel," the moderator, NBC anchor Brian Williams, observed, shoving Obama into a patch of political quicksand.'
historically, the 'cult of personality' has provoked unintended consequences. a closer look at mr. obama's record in the illinois state house will reflect a vote of 'present' on critical abortion rights legislation along with absenteeism. examination of the gentleman's political ambitions (e.g. his initial run for state legislator, his failed run for congress, and a u.s. senate victory by default) one notes alack both nobility and the discipline to grow in public service. it would good to have the latter to maintain and manage a republic.
Posted by: jeffery mcnary | April 27, 2007 3:51 PM
Awwww, better luck next time CREW.
WASHINGTON -- The Securities and Exchange Commission has decided not to file insider-trading charges against former Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist in connection with the sales of stock in the hospital chain his family owns, The Washington Post reported Friday.
An 18-month investigation by the SEC staff and the U.S. attorney in the Southern District of New York ended without action against the Tennessee Republican, the Post reported
Posted by: JD | April 27, 2007 4:01 PM
OMG how can anyone, in their right mind call that
total exercise in letting that phony arrogant
NBC News Pretty Boy Smirking No Talent Village
Idiot Brian Williams run amok and constantly make
a royal arse out of his stupid braindead big ego
over self-important self a real debate?..Since
Smirking Brian Williams was much more concerned
with trying to do put downs on all the candidates
and act soooo totally arrogant and obnoxius the
entire pathetic debate and so Brian Williams is
also the reason why I stopped watching NBC News
and MSNBC News as well! Brian Williams was frankly the worst excuse for a debate moderator
in history!
Posted by: Sandy | April 27, 2007 5:02 PM
Jeff,
Guess I didn't interpret the Russert interview the same as you, don't see where Harry has done anything illegal. Did he act unethically? I'm willing to give the stormin' Mormon the benefit of the doubt till someone produces convincing evidence otherwise. If he's guilty of impropriety, I say throw him out with the rest of the trash. By the way, looks like there's a new victim:
http://www.aolelectionsblog.com/2007/04/19/abramoff-scandal-rears-ugly-head-again/
Posted by: dt | April 27, 2007 6:22 PM
Boy Wonder - European Union???? - what a joke. So France has been as good of an ally as Great Britan?
Edwards - Mr. Class envy himself - that's pathetic.
Biden had the best idea - Putin will be the issue of 2008, His term in Russia is up in early '08 and many believe he won't step down. What do you think that would tell the world? How do you think our new NATO allies of Poland, the Balkans, Ukraine feel about that. If ol' Putin fires up the "red menance" how much would this country especially the democratic leadership be willing to go to bat for them? Food for thought.
Posted by: Terry | April 27, 2007 8:34 PM
I watched the 'debate' on my laptop in bed in south-east England. It wasn't a debate as we know the meaning of the word in the UK but a series of questions and answers.Butdon't think that anything real came out of it other than a first look at the Democratic candidates. A real debate is people talking and arguing and perhaps agreeing to disagree about a topic or series of topics. That's what I want to see.
PS I like Brian Williams and always watch NBC Nightly News at 11.30pm in the UK.
Posted by: Peter Wilkins | April 29, 2007 11:02 AM
That lead photo does the Edwards' camp no good. The caption may well read, "Don't worry dear. You were adorable."
"His hair was perfect."
- Warren Zevon, "Werewolves of London"
Posted by: Bud McFarlin | April 30, 2007 6:44 AM