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by Frank James
The Homeland Security Department is suing Illinois to undo a new state law the federal agency says would make it more difficult to enforce the nation's immigration laws.
The law is an amendment to Illinois's “Right to Privacy in the Workplace Act" which would make it impossible, says Homeland Security, for employers to participate in a voluntary federal program many currently use to verify whether new employees are legally entitled to work in the U.S.
Called E-Verify, the Internet program allows employers to transmit to the federal government certain identity information which permits immigration officials to confirm (or not) whether the employees can be legally employed.
About 93 percent of such queries come back either immediately or, if a manual check is necessary, the next day, confirming that an employee is eligible to work in the U.S. The rest are categorized as "tentative non-confirmations."
The employee can decide not to contest the non-confirmation. If he does contest it, Homeland Security will further investigate the matter, but that can take weeks.
Here's where the new Illinois law comes in. It essentially says that until Homeland Security can conduct 99 percent of those investigations within three days, it's illegal for all businesses operating in Illinois to participate in the E-Verify program.
Thus the lawsuit which was filed by the Justice Department on behalf of Homeland Security today. It's the first such lawsuit the federal government has filed since no other state has taken on the federal program as frontally as Illinois has.
It would seem that Illinois will have a challenge in persuading a federal court to see things its way since the Constitution's "supremacy clause" generally gives federal law the upper hand over state laws.
In an interview with me, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said:
"The state of Illinois has now made it illegal to comply with federal law. That's not acceptable as a matter of the Constitution and it's not acceptable as a matter of our discharging our federal obligation to enforce the immigration laws."
"There's obviously a lot of concern in certain quarters about our efforts to bring employers into compliance with the law because a lot of employers recognize that they means they may lose illegal workers and they may be depending on illegal workers.And while I'm in favor of comprehensive immigration reform and I've argued that in many ways we need to find a regularize those illegal workers, that's not what the law is. So we have to enforce the law as it is. The fact that it may hurt business is not an excuse not to enforce the law."
I asked Chertoff if he suspected that this the new law was a ploy by the business community and its allies in the statehouse to block his department's efforts to enforce the immigration law.
"I don't want to impute motives to people... I can tell you the effect of this would be to thwart our efforts and the efforts of those who want to comply with the law, to follow the law.The irony of this is, this program doesn't make employers join it. It seimply offers employers the opportunity to make sure they're in compliance with law. And yet the state law, the Illinois law here, would actually prevent people from checking to make sure they're in compliance with the law, which is a very strange outcome.
The Illinois law is, for Chertoff, just another example of how many politicians want to have it both ways. They talk about the need to secure the nation's borders but don't want to do what it takes to accomplish that because of the pressure from business or immigrant groups.
"... It's not a matter of personal frustration. It's really frustration on behalf of the 208,000 hardworking men and women. Here's the deal. The public through Congress has said to this agency 'We want you to enforce these laws. We want you take every reasonable, constitutional step to make it more difficult for people to make it more difficult for people to work illegally and to prevent illegals from coming in.
And of course then there's been criticism over the fact that in the preceding 30 years we have not done a good job of enforcing the law.
So now that we are taking the reins and really driving forward on this and really making some progress, we're beginning to see the schizophrenic nature of the way some politicians are looking at it. Which is that they're now coming back and saying 'We want you to enforce the law but we don't want you to do anything that would actually lead to enforcement. So we're going to prevent you from either helping businesses identify who's illegal, or encouraging business to identify who's illegal or arresting people who are illegal. So that the idea is we're going to get on the record saying we want you enforce it then we're going to make sure you can't enforce it."
That seems to me in a nutshell to explain why we have a tremendous wave of cynicism in the American electorate. I think the public looks and they go 'Well, on one hand Congress looks at this and says enforce the law, on the other hand the law doesn't get enforced. The government is obviously playing a shell game with Congress.' "
Homeland Security's has sent me a copy of a "blog post" they attribute to Chertoff. (Didn't know he had a blog.) For anyone interested in more on his view of the matter, here it is:
Could it be that the Illinois state legislature wants to prevent businesses from using the best available tools to determine whether new employees are illegal aliens? I certainly hope not, but that’s precisely what a new state law is poised to do. The recently authorized changes to Illinois’s “Right to Privacy in the Workplace Act” will place restrictions on the ability of employers in the State of Illinois to enroll voluntarily in our Department’s electronic employee verification system (E-Verify) to check the legal status of workers. This is wrongheaded. It’s also unconstitutional because it is preempted by federal law. That’s why today the Department of Justice filed a lawsuit on behalf of DHS to overturn the state law.E-Verify (formerly known as Basic Pilot) is an online system that allows employers to check whether a new worker’s name and Social Security number are valid and the person is authorized to work in our country. The system is easy to use and free of charge. It’s also popular, with more than 23,000 companies enrolled nationwide, including more than 800 in Illinois. And you can see why: E-Verify enables employers, in real time, to determine if the name, Social Security number, and other identity information that a new hire provides for his or her I-9 form match information in federal databases, giving them certainty that the people they’re hiring are authorized to work in the U.S. It also will allow employers to compare photos on ID documents provided by a new hire against the photos in state or federal records, thus preventing the use of fraudulent or stolen documents.
Why, then, would the State of Illinois want to prevent employers from using this valuable tool? Critics in the legislature claim that E-Verify takes too long, contains inaccurate data, and might cause workers to be wrongfully terminated. Some also complain that employers might use it to discriminate against citizens or legal immigrants on the basis of their ethnicity. Let’s take these one by one.
First, in 90 percent of cases, E-Verify returns an initial response within seconds. That seems pretty fast to me. Second, while I’ll be the first to admit that no system is perfect, the data in E-Verify isn’t “inaccurate” – instead, it reflects the data in Social Security Administration and DHS databases. And this actually results in a benefit to employees: E-Verify gives people notice that they might have to correct their information in our databases if the government's records are wrong because of things like a transposed number or misspelled name. This is important because it helps ensure that their Social Security benefits are properly credited. Third, employers are not allowed to fire a worker on the basis of an initial E-Verify check. In fact, federal law explicitly states that no worker can be fired until a final determination is made concerning his or her work eligibility. Finally, the law requires that employers use the system in the same way for all their new hires, and employers that use the system sign an agreement that says they will treat everyone the same, regardless of race, ethnicity, or national origin.
These are all important aspects of the program. But there is a larger issue at stake with the Illinois law. The American people have been loud and clear about their desire to see our nation’s immigration laws enforced. We are taking aggressive steps to do that – increasing worksite enforcement cases and bringing serious criminal penalties against employers who hire illegal aliens. We’ve also sharpened our existing tools, and, yes, we’ve given employers better tools like E-Verify. But we will not succeed if we are stopped at every turn by lawsuits and legislation that frustrate, slow down, or attempt to derail our efforts.
Why now? Many Illinois businesses have already signed up for E-Verify, and others may want to. We’ve asked the Department of Justice to file this suit because those businesses should have certainty that the federal program they’re relying on won’t land them in trouble with Illinois.
Of course, states are free to pass laws that they believe are in the best interests of their citizens. But when those laws interfere with my Department’s ability to uphold and enforce our nation’s immigration laws, or they deny employers tools they badly need and have asked us to provide, then we are fully prepared to fight for what we believe is right and necessary.
Rep. Pete Roskam (R-Ill.) has issued a statement as well, applauding the lawsuit and accusing Gov. Rod Blagojevich of trying to create "virtual sanctuary within the State of Illinois for illegal aliens."
Here's Roskam's statement:
DOJ SUES BLAGOJEVICH FOR CREATING WORKPLACE SANCTUARY FOR ILLEGALS
Roskam Applauds DOJ and DHS for Protecting Illinois Workers
WASHINGTON, DC - Congressman Peter J. Roskam (R-IL) today issued the following statement on the heels of a United States Department of Justice lawsuit filed against the State of Illinois and its plan to prohibit employers from voluntarily enrolling in any Employment Eligibility Verification System:
"Governor Blagojevich and the Illinois Legislature are acting against the best interest of Illinois workers, Illinois families, and against the safety of our nation.
"It is unbelievable that a legislative body would prohibit honest employers the right to voluntarily verify the citizenship status of their workers. It is against the law to hire an illegal alien and the federal E-Verify system is currently the best means available for employers to ensure compliance.
"Allowing undocumented workers into the workforce takes jobs away from hard-working Illinois families.
"Immigration reform begins at the border. We must remove the magnets that attract hundreds of thousands of illegals to cross our borders every year.
"Governor Blagojevich is attempting to preempt federal law by creating a virtual sanctuary within the State of Illinois for illegal aliens. Subsequently, the Department of Justice has filed suit in federal court today, and I applaud their actions."
Comments
I'm betting Blago's behind this crap too - he's so pro-illegal it makes me sick. Too bad he doesn't want to do as much for LEGAL residents of Illinois as he does for the illegals.
Posted by: Linda | September 24, 2007 3:40 PM
Who all sponsored and voted for this Illinois Amendment? As a law abiding citizen I am embarassed that my state would block this federal program. They sure did this behind everyone's back. Never heard about this on any local news program.
Patti
Posted by: Patti | September 24, 2007 4:01 PM
Agreed Linda!
Next, spanish will be the native language of the USofA and english will be the second. It seems it is hard for people who were born here to get great education, but they end up handing it out like candy to people who came here from other countries, legal or illegal. This country would have never stood for this behavior back in the day! Our government is whacked.. democrats, republicans does not matter in these days. People are out for #1 only and thats themselves. Very sad.
Posted by: One Who Cares | September 24, 2007 4:02 PM
Blago signed this into law in August of '07, the same time he couldn't get a budget passed, or help the CTA, or consider real estate tax relief, or help the schools, or ease the pension funding crisis.....the list goes on.
This bill was introduced by
Reps. Cynthia Soto and Monique Davis and Senator Iris Martinez.
To check the status of your rep and senator vote on this issue, check
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/votehistory.asp?DocNum=1744&DocTypeID=HB&LegID=30570&GAID=9&SessionID=51&GA=95&SpecSess=
Posted by: Janice Sachen | September 24, 2007 4:07 PM
Governor Boy-Wonder strikes again!
Posted by: Darkwater | September 24, 2007 4:12 PM
Thanks for the info Janice - I'll be checking and firing off letters. Should've thought of that myself.
Posted by: Linda | September 24, 2007 4:16 PM
Maybe Blago is concerned that the people receiving the benefit from his free health care are actually illegal aliens and this is a sure fire way for them to get caught. Maybe he's afraid that it will prove he doesn't do anything for tax paying citizens in Illinois...just those looking for a free ride.
Posted by: Maura | September 24, 2007 4:22 PM
It is unfortuante that so many illegal aliens must curtail the justice system to survive and provide for their families. As for the one who cares, it's unfortuante that they did not take the opportunity of a public education system to actually learn how to write. Thats whacked
Posted by: Cares More | September 24, 2007 4:25 PM
It seems that most people are capable of only kneejerk reactions when it comes to this issue.
This law is pro-commerce, it allows the economy to function properly in the face of a backwards anti-business federal law. Illinois is taking the initiative with a pragmatic law that allows much needed workers to fill jobs that none of the people posting on this site would ever lower themselves to work.
Spanish will never be the language of this country, because to move up in life here you need to speak English.
When the Irish, Italians, Swedes, and Germans came over, they were similarly reviled, yet we are not speaking any of those languages now, and their populations assimilated quickly.
Blago, by being what Linda calls "pro-illegal" is allowing our businesses to continue to flourish and making most American lives better.
Without the crutch of the underpaid illegal immigrant worker, our service industry would become moribund, and our goods and services would become more and more expensive.
Use your head, and not your dislike of Mexicans to form your opinions on immigration, and you will come to see that the illegals that you so disdain are what makes many of the comforts of your modern American life possible.
Posted by: We are all immigrants | September 24, 2007 4:26 PM
the article doesn't even mention education. how in the world are people born here prevented from getting an education while it's "handed out like candy" to immigrants? that's just a ridiculous comment.
in any event, it would be nice if people could just state their views on the topic of the article instead of using it as a leaping off point for an angry, ill-informed, and unrelated diatribe.
Posted by: what are you talking about, 4:02? | September 24, 2007 4:30 PM
HASN'T ANYBODY EVER CONSIDERED THE ONE ALTERNATIVE TO THE WHOLE CRISIS AND THAT IS TO HAVE THE TEN MEXICAN STATES TO BECOME COMMONWEALTHS OF THE US, LIKE PUERTO RICO. WHY NOT USE THE MONEY THAT WE ARE BUILDING IDIOTIC WALLS TO BUILD ALLIANCES WITH THE MEXICAN PEOPLE. HAS ANYONE EVERY ASKED IF THEY MIGHT WANT TO BECOME A PART OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA SOME DAY? IF THEY BECAME SO WE WOULD ONLY HAVE ABOUT A 150 MILE BORDER ON THE SOUTHERN TIP OF MEXICO TO PATROL. AM I THE ONLY STUPIP OR "SMART" ONE WHO HAS EVER THOUGHT OF THIS?
Posted by: Wayne Richard Hauglie | September 24, 2007 4:32 PM
Why did President Bush push this?
Does he put money over American jobs?
Posted by: GOP Defender | September 24, 2007 4:34 PM
How 'bout we just call it "In-Vasion" and give up our right to privacy. Oh, silly me, what was I thinking, we did that already, regardless of the the U.S. constitution says.
Posted by: I'm American too | September 24, 2007 4:35 PM
Add one more to the number of people that did not hear about this law until now... based on all the other "news" that makes our papers these days you would think this would certainly have been in it. I pick up the Red Eye daily, Chicago Trib once or twice a week, check ChicagoTribune.com multiple times a day and never saw this listed. This is certainly something I would have called our representatives about... next time I will check the reps sites instead of waiting for the news to catch up. Makes me think Chicago papers are pro-illegal too.
Posted by: Lisa C. | September 24, 2007 4:41 PM
"It seems it is hard for people who were born here to get great education, but they end up handing it out like candy to people who came here from other countries, legal or illegal."
Brilliant. And what schools are those foreigners going to that are so much better than what our citizens are attending? Please, inform me.
Posted by: Plan | September 24, 2007 4:49 PM
We have more traitors in office in this nation than is believable. Why, why do honest, hardworking, taxpaying, Americans put up with people like Blagojevich,for example? He doesn't have those he was sworn to represent best interests at heart. LOSE HIM AND CLOWNS LIKE HIM AND TAKE BACK YOUR NATION.
Posted by: Bobby | September 24, 2007 4:59 PM
Whatever, if it weren't for immigrants you lazy citizens wouldn't have as much help from the government to stay home and do nothing! Immigrants don't file their taxes or get to use social security. So, quit gripping!
Posted by: Carla | September 24, 2007 5:01 PM
It is unfortuante that so many illegal aliens must curtail the justice system to survive and provide for their families. As for the one who cares, it's unfortuante that they did not take the opportunity of a public education system to actually learn how to write. Thats whacked
Posted by: Cares More | September 24, 2007 4:25 PM
They would not have to curtail the justice system to survive if they did not come here illegally in the first place. A vast majority of illegal's make no effort to learn to speak "FUNCTIONAL ENGLISH". They steal identities, leech benefits and overall suck from our economy. I have no sympathy nor empathy for any illegal immigrant whose family gets "torn apart" by being deported. There is a legal way to become a resident/citizen. They, let me say again, THEY chose to bypass this and become felons. Yes, I said FELONS. The illegal immigrants in our country have no legal rights, except the right to a free ride home. They are more than welcome to take their children/family with them. This way, no illegal immigrants famly gets torn apart.
Posted by: Rob S | September 24, 2007 5:02 PM
Uh, "English" wasn't the official language either before the first wave of illegal immigration. This country has always had a problem with illegal immigration -- ask any Indian. If you have a pink face, I don't think you have any right to complain about illegal immigration -- your forebears came here under alot more relaxed rules, believe me. Illegal immigrants serve as the disenfranchised laboring underclass of this empire in decline, and if we have a "day Without Mexicans," you are going to find out how much things REALLY cost! Might as well include in the illegal Europeans as well, the office and house cleaners, construction workers, and nannies, that most voters don't realize are also illegal, because let's face it, its not an "immigration" issue, like its a "law enforcement" issue, its a racial issue. The extremely vocal conservative minority in this country - the American Talban - is going to get a bitter dish served up to them in the next election (FINALLY! Thank God!). Those are those people who are against abortion but for the death penalty, for "freedom" (whatever that means), but against personal rights. I am a gun-totin' liberal who believes in the U.S. Constitution, and I will breathe a sigh of relief when these anti-freedom conservative fascist theocrats see Hillary Clinton in the White House. And she is pissed! We need immigration reform yesterday, to reflect current economic and demographic realities. I may not like the guy much personally, but Thank You, Rod Blagojevich! And I appreciate his efforts on behalf of those Illinoisians without medical or prescription coverage as well, also bucking the feds!
Posted by: John | September 24, 2007 5:05 PM
If you look at the vote, the majority of Republicans in the IL Senate voted in favor of the legislation. In fact, it passed by such a large margin that even if Blagojevich vetoed the bill, it would have become law. Republicans want imigrants here as cheap labor for their business interests, but then turn around and criticize the imigrants for coming.
Posted by: JC | September 24, 2007 5:07 PM
Federal Laws trumps State Laws. But the U.S. Constitution trumps Federal Laws.
Constitution says "NO" to unreasonable search and seisure.
To make my point: Why not admend the laws to meet the Constitution. Potential employees can opt whether they want to volunteer their information to Homeland Security or not. If the potential employee does not agree to volunteer their information, then the employers don't have to hire them! Homeland Security doesn't have to do a thing! It's a question of "yes" or "no."
On top of that, if you are a U.S. Citizen, why would you give up your rights? You should be able to decide if you want to share information about yourself to the Govt.
Immigration bashing is out of control! It's just a political viewpoint to get more votes! I hear all these immigration bashers on this board but nobody with a solution.
The real problem isn't going away. Deportation isn't going to work. Tightening of documentation isn't going to work. You are looking at low wages or no jobs in Mexico. You can crack down all you want; they'll still keep coming. The solution is in Mexico! Create jobs there and most (not all) won't bother to cross into U.S.
Immigration bashing will just get worst results. Whether, you are illegal or legal immigrants, everyone needs a compromised solution.
Otherwise, last thing, we want here is a creation of a Gustapo! Looking into every house for illegals. When will this madness end? Will it end when everyone has a chip in our body? I call it 666. What about you?
Posted by: Lou | September 24, 2007 5:09 PM
I'm glad to see that the State of Illinois has the wherewithal to challenge the Federal Government regarding immigration policies that run counter to ideals under which our nation was founded. Ultimately, the Supreme Court will find one of two things to be unconstitutional: the position taken by the State or the position taken by the DHS. Regardless the outcome, let us be proud that our state government has managed to do something that Congress has a proven inability to do: stand up to the backwards, xenophobic policies of George W. Bush.
Posted by: Mark | September 24, 2007 5:10 PM
Maybe they can sue the governor of New York next to prevent him from issuing drivers licenses to illegals.
Posted by: Lee | September 24, 2007 5:13 PM
Not in California Carla. Immigrants collect welfare, collect food stamps, lie, cheat and steal to get what they want. They don't follow half the rules and are a drain on social services paid into by the lazy Americans you speak of, who then can't get those services. Give me a break! I'm sure it's happening in Illinois also. As I said on my first post, we have so many traitors in office its unbelievable. They never have Americans best interests at heart, and it seem, neither do you. Too bad.
Posted by: Bobby | September 24, 2007 5:17 PM
At this point, all I want is a roster of who voted this through. I'm sick of these half-wits voting this stuff through. It along the same lines of wanting to give illegal aliens drivers licenses.
Now Illinois taxpayers get to pay for attorneys to go through this legal battle. Wonderful!
Posted by: Robert | September 24, 2007 5:30 PM
We may all be immigrants, yet it is the illegal issue we're trying to understand here. I question why people are trying to protect illegal immigrants or explain why we need illegals so bad. I say we come up with a plan where the pro-illegal people take a family of illegals home to live with them, and all our problems will go away.
Posted by: Concerned | September 24, 2007 5:32 PM
How is it "pro commerce" to allow businesses to hire people who have no right to be here? By allowing them to violate the law and pay these people slave wages? Blago's not doing immigrants any favors by allowing them to be exploited.
The Supreme Court can't find for Illinois in this case, since federal law very obviously supercedes state law.
Posted by: Formerlyanonymous | September 24, 2007 5:39 PM
Wait -
Isn't the problem here that the federal government is so inefficient that it can't do a simple process in a short amount of time?
Posted by: John | September 24, 2007 5:42 PM
Here is the problem -
Why trust a computer system that might just be able to match your name.
That isn't proof enough to convict someone. And the Feds should be able to guarantee the accuracy of these accusations before it lets employers kick you to the curb.
Your name doesn't have to be Martinez or Ruiz to be a victim of this.
It can be Polinski, or O'Reilly, or even Smith.
Too many false positives - too much relying on a bureaucratic computer system with numerous flaws.
Not enough due process.
Posted by: John | September 24, 2007 5:47 PM
Remember everybody, if you oppose illegal immigration, you're racist!
Posted by: Jeff | September 24, 2007 5:47 PM
Folks, have you heard from people stuck in the E-Verify system? Congress has to use it. There is a staffer that works on the House Immigration Subcommittee who spent 3 weeks and 6 visits to Immigration and Social Security to rectify her records (none of which was her fault; she was a naturalized citizen and the system said she was a student who violated her status). The kicker: she was an immigration lawyer before she came to work a the committee. Imagine if it was you or I who had to go through that. How many more weeks, how many more visits would it have taken one of us?
Let them fix E-Verify BEFORE ordinary US citizens like you and me have to get stuck in another bureaucratic mess.
Posted by: Yet another American | September 24, 2007 5:52 PM
All you Citizens.....be honest with yourselves.
Want to continue enjoying services and produce at discounted prices? Then keep the status quo: hypocritcal citizens enjoying their beautiful self-absorbed lives while their portfolios continue to flow into the right markets (damn Wall Street and the US Dollar).
Now, here is where are you whiners need to look in the mirror and take the issue by the horn. Do you find it disgusting that "non-Americans" (i.e. Mexicans, Guatemalens) are growing in numbers? Disgusted enough to vote in politicians who can easily control the border? Most hypocrites on this board know that the ones to blame are NOT the illegals but the greedy businesses and us greedy consumers who are addicted to cheap labor.
Posted by: Be Honest | September 24, 2007 5:52 PM
Final note. If the citizens of Illinois think that anyone but themselves is going to fix the illegality going on in their state you are deluded. Like in California, all the politicians will do for legal citizens in Illinois is kick them in the teeth while serving the best interests of the illegal alien population. Good luck, folks, because all you are to politicians like Blagojevich, is one big ATM MACHINE to help illegal immigrants. Come to think of it, that's true across the nation.
Posted by: Bobby | September 24, 2007 6:03 PM
It has been said, but it bears repeating:
The problem we are talking about here is that the computer system will most of the time spit back a "positive" confirmation.
That is fine - that works.
The problem is that the rest of the time, it spits out a "maybe" confirmation.
Then the employee is stuck going through a federal bureaucracy for weeks, being presumed guilty until proven innocent.
In the meantime, the employee got fired from their job, and may not get it back even if they ARE vindicated.
This federal program is a joke. Make sure it doesn't penalize innocent people before you put it to work.
Thank the Illinois legislature (republicans and democrats) for blocking this stupid, technologically and legally illiterate federal policy.
Posted by: ryan | September 24, 2007 6:04 PM
To Bobby,
You're entitled to your own "feelings", but not your own facts.
Why don't you look at some real stats? In the Chicago metro area, 70% of undocumented immigrants pay payroll taxes (and may overpay if they do NOT file returns); and have very low rates of usage of public benefits (Center for Urban Economic Development at UIC, 2002). Undocumented immigrants pay $6-7 billion in Social Security contributions per year (which they can't access without proof of legal immigration status) (New York Times, April 5, 2005).
Take a look for yourselves.
Posted by: Yet another American | September 24, 2007 6:04 PM
The business interests want to preserve their pool of cheap labor. I don't think we should be giving business a break until we can go into our inner city communities and everyone has a job. It does not take a high school diploma or tech skills to cut grass or make up a hotel room bed. Racism and greed pure and simple keep employers from going in and employing the underclass. Why should employers make an outreach when they can easily employ an illegal? Your burger may be cheaper but your taxes are higher to pay for welfare for the unemployed and health care/schools for the illegal aliens and their families. Shouldn't the person that eats the hamburger or stays in the motel room pay the extra cost instead of the taxpayer?
Posted by: John | September 24, 2007 6:04 PM
I like the one about the Gustapo like raids against the illegal immigrants.
Maybe the camps would add entertainment!
Posted by: American First | September 24, 2007 6:06 PM
For one thing, if these immigrants stay, their kids will be bilingual and their grand-kids will speak English as a primary language, I guarantee it. Heck, English is practically the lingua franca for the entire world, so I wouldn't be worrying about that anytime soon.
For one thing, if these immigrants stay, their kids will be bilingual and their grand-kids will speak English as a primary language, I guarantee it. Heck, English is practically the lingua franca for the entire world, so I wouldn't be worrying about that anytime soon.
Secondly, any question of rights is based on laws. As an American, I think our immigration laws are unjust and also unworkable. While I can sympathize with the impossible situation the enforcers of said law have, I do not feel much sympathy for the laws themselves or for the culture that they engender.
Practically, we need a more just immigration system, because the one we have sucks. If Blago's law puts a little pressure on the feds, more power to him. I'm personally in favor of stronger state governments. Enough with this federal tyranny!
Posted by: Tom | September 24, 2007 6:20 PM
For one thing, if these immigrants stay, their kids will be bilingual and their grand-kids will speak English as a primary language, I guarantee it. Heck, English is practically the lingua franca for the entire world, so I wouldn't be worrying about that anytime soon.
Secondly, any question of rights is based on laws. As an American, I think our immigration laws are unjust and also unworkable. While I can sympathize with the impossible situation the enforcers of said law have, I do not feel much sympathy for the laws themselves or for the culture that they engender.
Practically, we need a more just immigration system, because the one we have sucks. If Blago's law puts a little pressure on the feds, more power to him. I'm personally in favor of stronger state governments. Enough with this federal tyranny!
Posted by: Tom | September 24, 2007 6:20 PM
'SATAN BILL 1639, GET YOUR S BILL 1639, HOMELAND SECURITY CONSOLIDATION OF AMERICA AS WE KNOW IT'
Now is a great time to read the bill, get familiar with the Bush Administrations MASTER PLAN, that just failed. We have 12.5 million people who basically attested to being here illegally and a failed bill that was to deal with the fact that we forced people to step up and expose themselves.
NOW THEY SIT AND WAIT FOR THE WHICH TIDE, WHICH BOAT, WHICH NOAH ARK!
We are very lucky today that Homeland Security through the eyes of George Bush and this administrations vision for SUCCESS that bill did not pass.
The DHS is a PHONY ACHIEVEMENT, that cannot take the place of the CIA or the FBI or the NSA. They cannot take the job of U.S. Attorney General, Secretary of State, Secretary of Agriculture, Secretary of Interior.
THEY CAN'T EVEN BUILD A FENCE ON TIME, OR AS YOU CAN SEE 67 MILLION DOLLARS FOR A VIRTUAL FENCE AND NO CUSTOMERS.
CHERTOFF IS A COMMIN
Posted by: Roger Morris | September 24, 2007 6:20 PM
The majority of Mexican illegals (and yes, all of the other illegals) are good hard working people. Unfortunately "Big Business" takes advantage of these people by paying them substandard wages that also keeps good paying jobs from legal residents. Illegals are destroying our economy, not on purpose, but by just being here illegally. In California, the hospitals and wellfare services are closing because they can't afford the illegals who come here and get sick or injured (with no insurance from Big Business). We should give the Mexican people (not their crooked government) a choice, join us or we will permanently close the border. They will become voting States with control within their State as we have control within our own States. There will be no border to cross. Big Business will be able to have an advantage of a cheaper economy for workers (at least for a while) and the Mexican people can stay at home with their families while working. We can then stop sending untold Millions of Dollars to Mexico so that their politicians can put it into their pockets instead of for their people. obviously there is more that would need to be done, but this could get it started.
Posted by: DCB | September 24, 2007 6:21 PM
For one thing, if these immigrants stay, their kids will be bilingual and their grand-kids will speak English as a primary language, I guarantee it. Heck, English is practically the lingua franca for the entire world, so I wouldn't be worrying about that anytime soon.
Secondly, any question of rights is based on laws. As an American, I think our immigration laws are unjust and also unworkable. While I can sympathize with the impossible situation the enforcers of said law have, I do not feel much sympathy for the laws themselves or for the culture that they engender.
Practically, we need a more just immigration system, because the one we have sucks. If Blago's law puts a little pressure on the feds, more power to him. I'm personally in favor of stronger state governments. Enough with this federal tyranny!
Posted by: Tom | September 24, 2007 7:10 PM
I agree with the Feds and i applaud DHS. I hope Illinolis loses federal earmarked dollars.
Posted by: kneejerkreaction | September 24, 2007 7:23 PM
Like all federal regulations out of Homeland Security, it is nothing more than a Republican rouse to scare you. Republicans are evil.
Posted by: Mike | September 24, 2007 7:34 PM
All federal funds
should be withheld from Illinois.
The governor should be recalled along with his cohorts who
supported this.
Posted by: Fed Up American | September 24, 2007 7:35 PM
Lou--The Constitution grants to Congress the RIGHT and in fact the duty to regulate immigration and naturalization. THAT trumps Illinois's half-a$$ed attempt at sanctuary.
I'm also pretty sick of hearing comments that rationalize illegal immigration on the basis that these workers are doing work Americans won't. As always, the condition "at the price" is left off. Americans have and do do all the work illegal aliens do and then some. They just can't afford and aren't willing to work for peanuts, particularly when they actually have to PAY taxes and social security.
Posted by: ali | September 24, 2007 7:52 PM
John, your ignorance of the situation is fairly clear. It is clear that the lack of inner-city school funding has deeply affected your education.
First, the Federal program IS an opt-in program. The government is not making anybody do anything.
Second, the federal law prohibits an employer from discharging an employee on the basis of a E-verify report until there is a more thorough "Final Determination." This would necessarily include a check of possible mistakes and typographical errors.
Third, by giving information to an employer on an I-9 form, the applicant consents to that information being checked out by the Feds. Under current supreme court law, consent searches are not covered by the Fourth Amendment even if the search-ee doesn't know he has a right to refuse consent.
Fourth, the constitutioanl ban against unreasonable searches and seizures only applies to government search and seizure. Where the program is opt-in, the employer is not acting as an agent of the government.
Fifth, there is no due process violation where there is no protectible interest. There is no right to employment in the United States. If we don't want to give up personal information to an employer, he can refuse employment on that basis.
Posted by: Not Dumb John | September 24, 2007 7:53 PM
Rob S:
Can you explain how someone who, according to the US Government, has only committed a misdemeanor by entering & staying in this country illegally is considered a felon in your book?
Don't you have to commit an actual felony to earn the name felon? Or do you consider anyone who has littered, j-walked, been caught speeding a felon?
Posted by: jj | September 24, 2007 7:53 PM
Apologies for multi-posting. Freaking system took forever...didn't realize anything had happened.
Posted by: Tom | September 24, 2007 8:00 PM
I agree that it is the illegal issue we are trying to understand here.
Understand that if the market cannot provide the jobs under the current laws, than the laws need to be changed to accommodate that need.
Laws and draconian measures to keep needed immigrant workers out will hurt the economy, and end up negatively affecting US citizens.
On top of this, most illegal immigrants pay income taxes and social security and never receive any services or payouts.
What we have on our hands is an immigration panic inspired not by level headed analysis of the situation but by impulsive reactions to a perceived outside threat.
Immigrants don't come to the US to leech off of the welfare or health-care systems, they come to work. For one, we don't have free medical care, and much of the money they earn in the US is spent here or payed to the government as taxes.
Our unemployment rate is very low, and most of the jobs worked by 'illegals' are open because Americans won't take them.
Our current immigration panic is hurting our economy in regards to legal as well as illegal immigrants. Immigration quotas have left many high tech jobs unfilled.
Because of a rush to legislate, these quotas may damage the US tech industry. There are simply not enough qualified Americans for many jobs in Silicon valley. Believe me, those companies will move those jobs elsewhere if US immigration policy prevents them from filling their needs.
Posted by: We are all immigrants | September 24, 2007 8:01 PM
I love all the comments here from the pro-Immigrant, anti-U.S./anti-border Lefties but are signed by folks like GOP Defender, who is probably Deranged, Demented John E.
Folks the reason you haven't heard about this law is that the politicians, and in particular the Democratic ones who are anti-U.S. and anti-American citizens, didn't want you knowing about it, nor did the media, who are in bed with the anti-U.S./anti-American citizen gang.
The Left = Enemy of the U.S. and its citizens.
Posted by: John D | September 24, 2007 8:07 PM
Whatever happens?....Happens. I didn't vote for this Blagojevich, schmuck. And I DID vote.
Posted by: Mark | September 24, 2007 8:11 PM
If illinois wants to go against federal law, they should have to forfeit any money coning to them from the federal government. I have seen the neighberhood I grew up in totally destroyed by illegal alien criminals. If illegal aliens don't respect our laws by coming here illegally, and stealing social security numbers, they will just continue to disobey american laws. Build the fence, jail employers that hire illegals, and deport any that remain. Then we will have a much safer, and law abiding america!
Posted by: Ben | September 24, 2007 8:38 PM
Crime rises as illegal immigration rises. Did you watch NBC football last night -- Spanish language scores and commercials. Insulting US citizens is cool these days. Health care reform? It will cost the taxpayer, because 14 of the 43 million uninsured are illegal aliens, who will never pay a penny. They claim 9 dependents so they pay not state or federal income taxes, they get free health insurance, and get away with murder. Their kids never have to learn English because they go to Spanish speaking schools in Chicago.
Posted by: Karen | September 24, 2007 8:46 PM
Ali - the price of labor is set by the market, not by government intervention. Welcome to capitalism. If you don't like it, I'd tell you to try communism, but most people who have experienced life in communist countries will tell you the free market works much better.
Illegal immigrant workers have a competitive advantage over legal workers in the battle for unskilled jobs. They work for cheaper, so they get the jobs, and that is the way it works. The good jobs requiring skills are worked by Americans and other 'legals' that meet the requirements of the jobs and therefore earn more money.
John D - When did rightists like you become anti-commerce and anti-American business. Has your xenophobia finally overcome your greed?
Posted by: We are all immigrants | September 24, 2007 8:48 PM
Anyone who presents forged federal documents is committing a felony. So an illegal giving an employer a false SS number is comitting a felony. As far as illegal aliens doing jobs Americans won't do, do most of you consider construction jobs in that category? The mere presence of vast amounts of illegal makes following the laws difficult for those who want to obey the law because employers who don't have a competitive advantage. One final point, if the law is changed and these illegals are given amnesty will those currently show utter contempt for current immigration will want all of us to respect the new law. I hope you now see the inherent contradiction that is being established by those who feel that immigration laws should not be enforced, one day you might pass a law that you want enforced. If you want the law changed, change it but using specious arguments to imply or impune the current laws helps no one(even those who disagree with it) because with out the rule of law we as a society have nothing. If the laws is changed I would support it, albeit begrudgingly but I would because the rule of law is paramount to any civil society. Disregard for the law leads to the dissolution and ultimately to the destruction of society.
Posted by: aaron | September 24, 2007 8:53 PM
Seems none of the Bush Administration can read! The Constitution grants the HIGHEST form of law to in order: Municpalities, Townships, Counties, States, and LAST the federal gevernment.
It is time the United States demands a just Government. The people have gotten rid of one King, now it is time the people got smart and voted ALL the b*****ds out of office and get someone in there that looks out for the people, not Big Business, aka. Haliburton!
Posted by: Mittch | September 24, 2007 8:53 PM
For those of you who defend & praise illegal aliens, get your heads out of the sand & wake up
This is about the rule of law, our sovereignty & our childrens futures
It's about the American worker & the future of our Republic
If you're alright with a business/political oligarchy, with the elite lording over the peasants, just like Mexico, then by all means continue to elect the Blago's, the Durbins, the Schakowsky's, etc.
Our State government is filled with self-serving, pandering carpetbaggers who put their lust for power above the safety of their consttuents & the common good of their State
They work feverishly to appease business interests & the ethnic identity/racial warlord pimps in an attempt to garner more power at the expense of Illinois citizens
We're under an invasion never seen before. Remember these "leaders" when it's time to vote & THROW THEM OUT OF OFFICE
Posted by: Mike Mozart | September 24, 2007 9:18 PM
To "Plan" who questioned what great education these illegal immigrants were getting in favor of legal residents. Look at the financial aid (grants, etc)that is given to illegals - money that could be given to legal residents, or used to keep the cost of higher education from rising so quickly.
Even in the grade schools, summer school resources are being used to help illegal immigrant students come up to speed.
It is too bad the Mexico sucks and all these people have to sneak over the border, but maybe instead of leaching here, they should work on fixing their own country, like some are trying to do now here in the US.
Posted by: TomB | September 24, 2007 9:32 PM
I absolutely hate politicians who bend over backwards for people who don't even belong in this country. These illegal immigrants don't belong here because they are breaking U.S. law--it's as simple as that. It doesn't matter what ethnicity they are or where they come from. It's illegal, and nothing more. I think people often lose sight of this when they want to protect peoples' rights.
There is nothing wrong with supporting the republicans on this issue. I myself have moderate to liberal views in politics generally, but there's just a point where you have to take a step back and realize that ours is a country of laws--not ideals, morals, or the wish to be nice to every poor person who comes here looking for a job. We function by laws in every other respect of our country, why not this? If people want to come to the United States, do so legally. My grandparents did. My great-grandparents did. Just follow the rules.
Also, I'd like to say that this is the first I've heard of this bill being passed as well, and I check the Tribune's website all the time.
Posted by: Kristina | September 24, 2007 9:38 PM
Why are illegal alien supporters who claim these workers are needed and a boom to commerce also demanding state and federal benefits. Maybe Homeland Security will pick up the pace of employer raids in the Chicago area and deport all illegal aliens, especially those with serious criminal records. Illinois legislators are moving in the opposite direction of most states who are now effecting anti-illegal alien measures. Visit numbersusa.com to let your voice be heard in Washington, DC
Posted by: Tom | September 24, 2007 10:03 PM
"We Are All Immigrants" I am not anti-commerce or anti-business. I do believe those entities should hire Americans though. I do not believe they should be hiring illegal immigrants. If these folks want to live and work in the U.S., then they should enter the country LEGALLY and the same way as any other immigrant. Really, a pretty simple concept, wouldn't you say?
Posted by: John D | September 24, 2007 10:27 PM
Round up the Illinois legislature, and throw them in maximum security federal prision.
Same for blago.
Posted by: lance sjogren | September 24, 2007 10:35 PM
"For those of you who defend & praise illegal aliens, get your heads out of the sand & wake up"
Notice the smell, I don't think that's sand where their heads are.
Posted by: lance sjogren | September 24, 2007 10:37 PM
You know, the open border wackos at the state and local government level always defended their "don't ask don't tell" policies on illegal immigration on grounds that it's a federal responsibility.
Now that the federal government is actually considering enforcing the law a little bit, all of a sudden the local politicians decide that not only do they have local jurisdiction, but they have the right to violate federal law.
Once again, I say throw them in prision. Immediately.
Posted by: lance sjogren | September 24, 2007 10:40 PM
We are all immigrants said:
"Illegal immigrant workers have a competitive advantage over legal workers in the battle for unskilled jobs."
Same rationale that was used for slavery and sweatshop labor.
There's nothing worse than an open-borders right winger who would sell out American workers for a fast buck.
Posted by: Anonymous | September 24, 2007 10:43 PM
But in a way I think the action of Illinois is a good thing.
The open borders radicals have formally declared war on the American people.
Lock and load.
Posted by: lance sjogren | September 24, 2007 10:46 PM
Yet another American, sorry but I know the facts in California. I've lived here more than 50 years and know the political situation intimately. We are bankrupt and the only thing keeping the state afloat is the constant issuing of billions, that's right, billions of dollars in bonds, in order to service the bottomless pit of illegal immigration. Schooling, social services, medical, incarceration and on and on. Perhaps things are way different in Illinois. When it comes to the facts,California I know about. By the way,millions of illegal alinens work under the table and are receiving State aid as well. Can you explain to me how they pay so much in Social Security as you say, and yet even the administration has admitted about 34-50 billion! dollars being sent out of the country by them to Mexico. Makes it kind of hard for most people to believe that their contributing much to this nation, wouldn't you think? They are contributing to the enrichment of greedy employers, however, who love to pass on their social costs to American taxpayers.
Posted by: Bobby | September 24, 2007 10:51 PM
By the way, I realized that yet another American gave The New York Times as his source on what illegal aliens do. A-hum, enough said. This is the same paper that we relied on for information about Iraq(Judith Miller) When it comes to illegal immigration, the New York Times, never heard of it. Please.
Posted by: Bobby | September 24, 2007 10:57 PM
An Illegal hit my Truck last week, And as you can guess no Ins. and no drivers license and no speeky engleeeesh. The Cop let him walk away from his car. I was and still am mad as I can be. It is the same old same old about these Illegals. They can come here and wreak havoc on the Citizens and get away with it. Because our Government refuses to Enforce our laws. If you have a lawn co. Or a Construction Co. come to your house and you let them work on your home you are just helping the mess in this Country.. My INS. minus my $500.00 Deductible paid for my Truck but in the long run You all paid for my repairs too. Your rates are high because Illegals dont have Ins. and dont care and the burden goe's to you, And We also pay more for Medical,and our Kids are getting the raw deal at School. We have to pay for the Illegals to eat and to slow down the education of our children.. I took my 2 kids out of public school this year and they are doing 10 X's better. I am tired of the Invasion Go to www.Numbersusa.com
and give em hell I Did
Posted by: Rob | September 25, 2007 1:45 AM
I don't know what the big deal is they have 90 days to straighten it out if it is a mistake. I'm an America born citizen and I have no problem with them checking me out of course I don't have anything to hide. Deport all Illegal Aliens and if we need a guest worker program bring in the ones that have not crossed our border Illegally. Ban all others "BUILD THE FENCE"
Posted by: Brenda | September 25, 2007 4:23 AM
Liberals, Patti, liberals! They control the MNM...even Fox & Friends is a pro-Gholuliani ant