Front Row: New York, nation see Giuliani differently

One wag called Giuliani Bush with brains and therefore a far more dangerous man.

There is some truth in that, as is generally the case when something is funny.

In general, intelligence is welcome in politics. Stupidity certainly has no role in the 21st century world.

The trouble with Giuliani is that he is so dishonest and insensitive to others. One suspects a degree of sociopathy.

This New Yorker lived through Giuliani and remembers well that he couldn't have been elected dog catcher on Sept 10. But what galls us now is the memory of his attempt to subvert the constitution of the city and remain in office past his term - baecause he was the only person on earth who could get us through and past 9/11. I'm sure most people in fly-over country don't even know this. And, of course, there's his incredible profiteering off 9/11, when his obstinence - the radios that didn't work, placing the emergency command center at #7 WTC - surely contributed to the losses of that awful day. That's what pisses us off. Oh yeah - him saying George Bush would be remembered as "the greatest president we ever had". That sticks too.

THis articel is an absolute joke. It should say liberals from NY see Guliani diff than the nation. In NY Guliani is very well respected by those who dont hate him because he is a Republican. How else did he win all those elections. Because people who dont make up their minds based on what party he is in loved him.

Also I feel the same way about Obama. I dont get how anyone could like him. DOnt they know how IL politics is played and that evryone from the state is corrupt as possible. Most people I talk to from IL dont want anyone from this state anywhere near the White House. SHould I write anarticle and title it people from IL and nation see Obama differently. THis is a joke and obviuosly a hit piece. See a real journalist would say that some of the nY voters feel diff about Guliani.. Not pretend like the 3 people they talk to dislikeing the guy means that the whole city does. If he is so unliked by NYrs how did he win those elections?

Why no mention today in the Swamp about the fact that Obama is illegally and unethically using his Hopefund to support candidates in NH/SC, and Iowa. You see it works like this Obama tells them if they pledge their support for him he will give them money from his PAC to help w/ their campaign. Even though it is unlawful to use your PAC to help your campaign. I am sure it is just a coincidence that the vast majority of Obama's Hopefund money is going to candidates in the 3 earliest primary states. Frank James, how is that not a topic in the swamp today? I know because then it hurts your chacnes of being in Obama's press corps if he wins somehow. Lynn Sweet also shows how Obama takes money from Lobbyists and PAC's even though he tells everyone that he doesnt. WHen will the swamop touch on those issues. I am still waiting for the 1st Rezko article from the swamp.

What worries me about Ghouliani is the people he surrounds himself with. He has absolutely no foriegn policy expereince and has to rely on advisors (as is the case with most of this years presidential candidates). It is just that his advisors are crazier than Bush's advisors:

Mr. Giuliani’s team includes Norman Podhoretz, a prominent neoconservative who advocates bombing Iran “as soon as it is logistically possible”; Daniel Pipes, the director of the Middle East Forum, who has called for profiling Muslims at airports and scrutinizing American Muslims in law enforcement, the military and the diplomatic corps; and Michael Rubin, a scholar at the American Enterprise Institute who has written in favor of revoking the United States’ ban on assassination.

Vinny:

He won all those elections by running as the true Rudy - a Democrat in Republican clothing. Now that he has to kiss up to the right wing morons of the GOP, he has suddenly become a Republican, despite his liberal social leanings.

And Vinny - if he does win the nomination, wait until you see what the firefighters will do to him about 9/11. It will make Swift Boat look like a pleasure cruise.

Nisleib, I believe you have stated you are an Obama supporter. Can you please inform us of Mr. Obama's foreign policy experience. And, while I hate agreeing with the Queen B, living abroad when you are 8 years old does not count as foreign policy experience.

Anyway, New Yorkers re-elected Giuliani pretty handily (especially considering he's a Republican in a very Democratic city), largely based on his cleaning up New York City. Seems to me it's the elitist liberal white snobs who don't like him. The Average New York Joe and Jane does.

What I'd like to know from those New Yorkers who don't like him:
1. What is wrong with cleaning up the city?
2. What is wrong with making Times Sqaure a better and cleaner tourist spot?
3. What is wrong with bringing the crime rate down?
4. What is wrong with making New York a slightly better destination for convention business than it was before Giuliani became mayor?
5. What is wrong with solidifying a city that when he became mayor was on the brink of bankruptcy and another bailout and not working in anyway whatsoever?

John D

If you read my prior posts I make it clear that NONE (other than Biden and Richardson) of the candidates (including Hillary) have any meaningful foriegn policy expereince, so no, I can't detail Obama's foreign policy experience. He doesn't have any, neither does Mitt or Rudy or Hillary.

I am leaning towards Obama. I like Huckabee and Paul too, but I doubt either of them have a chance to win the nomination.

In all honesty my support for Obama is mostly a facet of my disdain for Hillary.

John D-

What is Rudy Giuliani's foriegn policy experience?

Could someone explain why Rudy G. admitted in his autobiography he dressed as Benito Mussolini every Halloween between the ages of 10-14 years old?

"Could someone explain why Rudy G. admitted in his autobiography he dressed as Benito Mussolini every Halloween between the ages of 10-14 years old?"

Because a lot of people like to wear costumes depicting evil/ghoulish characters on Halloween. Hence the popularity of the Hillary masks last month.

Dumb dumb AJF. Rudy Giuliani has more foreign policy experience than all of the Demoncrats combined. Does the 9/11 Commission mean any thing to you leftist wackos? Lefty Loons pretty much the worst mankind has to offer.

Johnny:

He was reelected because he ran as a socially liberal Republican, which really made him more like a Democrat.

As long as you are asking questions, maybe you could answer the following for us:

1) Why is it that between 1993 and 2001, Giuliani did NOTHING about replacing the outdated radio systems that did not allow police and fire to speak to each other?? Could it be that he was in the back pocket of Motorola?

2) Why is it that when the original Emergency Communications Center was bombed in 1993, did Giulani relocate it BACK in the WTC instead of some place that was not a target? Was THAT because he was in the back pocket of the developers of the WTC?? The reason you saw Rudy bravely walking the streets of NYC after 9/11 was because he had NOWHERE to go, since the communications center was destroyed with the Twin Towers.

Maybe he should have used the apartment that his buddy Bernie Kerik used for his trysts that was supposed to be for the relief of the WTC recovery teams.

anonymous D

He didn't show up for the 911 commission. He was too busy giving speaches for mondy.

Rudy has NO foreign policy experience, none, zippo, zilch.

Dumb dumb AJF. Rudy Giuliani has more foreign policy experience than all of the Demoncrats combined. Does the 9/11 Commission mean any thing to you leftist wackos? Lefty Loons pretty much the worst mankind has to offer.

Posted by: anonymous D | November 28, 2007 11:21 AM

That may qualify as the dumbest thing ever posted on the Swamp. And that's saying a lot.

I am from New Jersey and I use to work in NYC. All this is a bunch of overstated bull. Sure people say he is not well liked in NYC, I say BS. Sure there are some people that argue that NYC success was not because of Giuliani, but they tend to be the people with liberal bias and rarely have any logic or evidence to support of there position, just the typical uniformed sheep types.

Sometimes you hear things like; Rudy had a girl friend, what kind of an idiot in the post Clinton age can come up with that being an issue. If they were honest that morals were an issue Clinton would not have ushered in the age of the informal BJ clubs. Where young girls 9 - 10 yr olds in schools all over the nation explored what all the Clinton uproar was all about.

What Clinton is to morals is what black is to white.

I’ll tell you what not only does Giuliani have a chance to win NY, he has a shot at winning New Jersey as well. The people of NJ are realizing how much of their states problems are associated with democrats.

New Jersey is rotting under its government, it is rotting morally and financially and many people are realizing that its liberals and their corrupt leaders that are causing its destruction. There may be enough conservatism left that it comes out and breaks the democratic hold on the state and helps put Rudy in office and turn Jersey around at the same time.

Just a minor correction:

It was the Iraq Study Group that Rudy Giuliani did not attend the meetings of because his personal business interests were more important than the nation's foriegn policy, not the 9/11 commission.

Rudy was never appointed to the 9/11 commission because his actions as Mayor were part of the 9/11 commission's investigation.

Rudy was appointed to the Iraq Study Group but was forced to resign when he failed to attend any of the sessions.

Ahhh, the "anonymous D" again. Is it John E? Dumb Dumb Janet? Dt, the demented twin?

Anyway, Bobin, why do you lefties hate America so much?
Let's see, you folks hate the insurance industry. You hate the retail industry, particularly Wal-Mart. You hate the pharmacuetical industry. You hate the financial industry. You hate the auto industry. You hate the steel industry (what's left of it in the U.S.). You hate the home building industry. You hate the ski resort industry. You hate the airline industry. You hate the oil industry. You folks hate the food industry. Today, Bobin, you show disdain for Motorola. You folks don't like Boeing, Ford, GM, Haliburton, Merck, Wal-Mart, Bechtel, All-State, State Farm, Blue Cross Blue Shield, doctors, hospitals, Citigroup, Countrywide, Prudential, Johnson & Johnson, American Airlines, United Airlines, Cambridge Homes, McDonalds, Kraft, Kelloggs, Burger King, Taco Bell, KFC, RJ Reynolds, etc., etc., etc.

I guess you folks like Starbucks and Whole Foods.

So, why do you folks hate America and Americans??

"What is wrong with solidifying a city that when he became mayor was on the brink of bankruptcy and another bailout and not working in anyway whatsoever?"

If be "solidifying it," you mean leaving it with an EVEN BIGGER DEFICIT than he inherited ($4billion at the end of his term) during the same period that massive economic growth had the Feds producing large surpluses, then yes, he really "solidified" the city's budget deficit.

More Bush than Bush, that Giuliani character. Truly scary.

John D now equates America to it's corporations.

John D why do you hate the common people of America?

Johnny D:

Please answer the questions as stated - not go off on a rant that had NOTHING to do with my post. Where did I say I hated ANY of the companies or industries in question?? All I said was that Rudy took contributions from that company, and therefore was in no hurry to replace their product that was not working for the fire and police departments.

Since you did not answer my questions, I guess that means that what I said was true - Rudy let down the city of New York on the two subjects I posted.

That may qualify as the dumbest thing ever posted on the Swamp. And that's saying a lot.

Posted by: crafty b | November 28, 2007 11:34 AM

Ahhh, the "anonymous D" again. Is it John E? Dumb Dumb Janet? Dt, the demented twin?

Anyway, Bobin, why do you lefties hate America so much?
Let's see, you folks hate the insurance industry. You hate the retail industry, particularly Wal-Mart. You hate the pharmacuetical industry. You hate the financial industry. You hate the auto industry. You hate the steel industry (what's left of it in the U.S.). You hate the home building industry. You hate the ski resort industry. You hate the airline industry. You hate the oil industry. You folks hate the food industry. Today, Bobin, you show disdain for Motorola. You folks don't like Boeing, Ford, GM, Haliburton, Merck, Wal-Mart, Bechtel, All-State, State Farm, Blue Cross Blue Shield, doctors, hospitals, Citigroup, Countrywide, Prudential, Johnson & Johnson, American Airlines, United Airlines, Cambridge Homes, McDonalds, Kraft, Kelloggs, Burger King, Taco Bell, KFC, RJ Reynolds, etc., etc., etc.

I guess you folks like Starbucks and Whole Foods.

So, why do you folks hate America and Americans??

Posted by: John D | November 28, 2007 11:48 AM

I stand corrected

AJF, for your information, all those industries and company EMPLOY millions of Americans and millions of Americans have investments in them.

Bobin, your questions about Giuliani are more lefty propaganda. How did Giuliani bend because of Motorola?

Perhaps Giuliani was wrong to put the command center at the Twin Towers. Would that have changed antyhing though? Would that have prevented the planes from flying in them? Or the buildings collapsing? Or the people dying? No, no and no.

I came to NYC in the "bad old days", as a student in the late 1970's. I supported Giuliani for mayor as early as 1989, largely because there was no other choice for Republican conservatives.

He's a five-star phony. This purported "expertise" in "security matters" is absolute hogwash. EVERY PERSON that did a good for Rudy and that were REALLY responsible for turning around NYC got FIRED or LEFT and were replaced by Rudy's political cronies whose sole "expertise" was personal loyalty. Go right down the line: Police Commmissioner Bill Bratton was shown the door and replaced, ultimately, with Bernie Kerik, who had been Rudy's driver in his campaign cars. The head of the NYC Office of Emergency Management, run first by Jerry Hauer, a seasoned anti-terror pro, was replaced by Richie Steirer, a low-level fire dispatcher whose sole "expertise" was that he got Rudy the dispatcher's union endorsement. Tom van Essen, the Fire Commissioner, was another Rudy hack union pol who Rudy promoted over DOZENS of more highly qualified NYFD professionals.

One has to wonder exactly how many people may have died on 9/11 because Rudy's emergency response teams were all headed up by political hacks whose sole qualification was loyalty to Rudy.

Trust me, I live in NYC and have for 30 years. You don't want this guy ANYWERE NEAR the Oval Office.

John D. --

What you folks outside NYC don't know is that Times Square was on its way to getting cleaned up BEFORE Rudy ever took office, with an Improvement Association (a neighborhood group empowered to tax members) that was created under Rudy's PREDECESSOR. Rudy didn't have and wasn't capable of that kind of creative thinking -- he only knows how to claim credit.

You credit him with a lot of things, but virtually ALL of those things came about because of SOMEBODY ELSE'S initiative.

And somebody should ask him tonight EXACTLY how many CRIMINAL trials he prosecuted as a US attorney HIMSELF. There are virtually NONE.

The guy's a self-aggrandizing, self-promoting weasel and whoever said he's a sociopath isn't so far from wrong.

Perhaps Giuliani was wrong to put the command center at the Twin Towers. Would that have changed antyhing though? Would that have prevented the planes from flying in them? Or the buildings collapsing? Or the people dying? No, no and no.

Posted by: John D | November 28, 2007 12:34 PM

The dumb-dumb posts keep flying from John D's fingers at lightening speed. crafty b, he's continuing to challenge you.

John D-

Yes they employ many people, but it is the people that comprise America, not the companies. They employ the people, they do not own them. Corporations do not always operate in their employees interest

Unions represent millions of americans. Does criticizing unions mean that the person "hates

This article shows the reporter's abysmal ignorance of voters outside New York and Republican voters.

Mr. Gordon, try getting out of the NYC-DC cocoon. Try it. You might learn something.

Could someone explain why Rudy G. admitted in his autobiography he dressed as Benito Mussolini every Halloween between the ages of 10-14 years old?

Posted by: steven | November 28, 2007 11:03 AM

I dunno. Maybe he admitted it because it was true?

AJF, for your information, all those industries and company EMPLOY millions of Americans

Posted by: John D | November 28, 2007 12:34 PM

And every time someone actually tries to stand up for the employment rights of those millions of Americans (ex: Unionization rights and insurance provision for Walmart employees), they're Anti-walmart and, thus, anti-walmart employees, and thus, anti-American. See how that escher-esque circular mind-fark logic works? I guess we should let WalMart simply enslave its employees so it didn't have to pay them at all, because that's be pro-walmart and pro-america! (to stand up against such a thing would be "anti-Walmart", and thus, against WalMart's slave-employees and America, right?).

John. You have the comprehension capacity of a 6 year old. Passing legislation that affects Corporations in an effort to improve living standards in America isn't "anti-American". Go back and read up on the epic struggles between labor and capital throughout this country's history and then maybe you'll understand why the interest of Walmart's management is not simply one and the same as the interests of Walmart's employees.

While you're at it, why don't you take your red-white-and blue skirt off, stop envisioning yourself as some kind've flag-toting, fist-on-hips standing, "Mr. America Superhero" and discuss the pros vs. cons of particular legislation without declaring everyone who doesn't agree with you 100% of the time as "Anti-american"?

It's not Anti-American to be Anti-Moron.

1.
THIS ARTICLE is false.

The things we NYorkers hated Rudy for are EXACTLY what Republicans hate even more. (Which is why media won't report them.)

EX: Find me some GOPers who LIKE that Rudy gave himself a 50% pay raise and the entire Democrat City Council 75% pay raises (AFTER RG called them worthless!!) WHILE STIFFING COPS AND FIREMEN with less than 15%!

See?

EX:
Find me ONE GOPer who likes that RG was found guilty by hundreds of judges and juries of violating the CONSTITUTION.

Go!

EX:
Find me ONE GOPer who likes that RG paid out over 500 MILLION of our taxes a year to settle the lawsuits resulting from RG's endless federal convictions!

I've got thousands more of these.

In fact, find me ONE republican voter who likes ANYTHING about RG that is true. (Most of RG's myths are easily disproven.)

EX: RG says he's SOFT ON CRIME. (I'll prove this in great detail. Let's debate!)(Mayorcxb@yahoo.com)

RG IS A TWO-FACE FRAUD which is why the Conservative Party of NYC hated him and the Liberal Party loved him.

WHY won't media tell the truth?

Giulianiscandals dot blogspot dot com

AJF, for your information, all those industries and company EMPLOY millions of Americans and millions of Americans have investments in them.

Posted by: John D | November 28, 2007 12:34 PM

And yet it is ok for you to bash and trash Citgo. Why is that Johnny D? Why do YOU hate Americans who depend on a paycheck from Citgo and why do YOU hate the investors who put money into Citgo?

HEY JOHN D:

it was RUDY GIULIANI himself who admitted he lied about everything.

EX: it was RUDY who said "no bunker will cost lives" when trying to give tens of millions to Silverstein via the scam bunker.

ARE YOU SAYING GIULIANI IS FULL OF CRAP?

I agree with you: he is.

EX:
it was RUDY who said the Towers fell b/c he had NO PLAN for fighting skyscraper fires (then OR now!) and so the fires--which Rudy let burn freely---toppled the towers.

ARE YOU CALLING RUDY A LIAR?

Okay. I'll buy that.

In fact, Rudy's # critic is Rudy himself, b/c he's contradicted himself on 100% of issues.

EX: Rudy said many times his "role model" was an armed robber and mobster. (His dad.)

ARE YOU CALLING RUDY A LIAR again??

Me too.

Acc. to Rudy, he is the worst mayor ever, doubling NYC's debt in just 8 years, refusing to go after child molesters (like The Catholic Church) and so on.

I BELIEVE RUDY: he's the worst.

Paul

"Times Square was on its way to getting cleaned up BEFORE Rudy ever took office, with an Improvement Association (a neighborhood group empowered to tax members) that was created under Rudy's PREDECESSOR."

You statement sort of reminds me of how Bush41's successor takes credit for pulling an economy from a recession.

Janet,

Because Citgo funnels its money to a socialist dictator who hates America. MAybe that's why you like Citgo?

Oh Dumb Dumb Janet, I choose to not buy Citgo because it is owned by Hugo Chavez. I know you have a certain type of dream about Hugo, but my money will not go directly into his pocket.

And crafty b., please answer this: Jewel is a union shop. Wal-Mart is not a union shop. Please explain to me how the nonunion Wal-Mart workers start at a higher pay than the union Jewel workers? Explain to me how the nonunion Wal-Mart workers can get medical benefits right away, while at Jewel part-timers have to be employed at Jewel for a minimum of 2 years and work a minimum average of 20 hours a week? And, Jewel policy dictates that most part-timers do not get more than 12 to 15 hours a week, thereby making it pretty darn difficult to ever get those medical benefits. Meanwhile, part-time workers at the nonunion Wal-Mart or the nonunion Burger King can and do get medical benefits.
And, gee, craftyb, those folks don't have to pay weekly union dues!
But then why am I presenting REAL WORLD information to someone who cannot even comprehend Dick and Jane books?

John D prefers to buy his oil from dictators who values he agrees with, like the Saudis who punish a woman who was gang raped more harshly than her rapists. He can't wait to put his money in their pockets!