Fla., Mich. re-vote dominates Sunday political chat

I'ld like to know what the legislators of these 2 states will do to insure this will not happen again. If the DNC were to bow to them like the RNC, what would prevent this in the future?
I'ld also like to hear from them...what were they thinking.

Mail in or other low cost options are fine, but do it by April, not June as Carville and other deathmatch Clintonistas are suggesting. The Dems are dying the death of a thousand self-inflicted cuts.

Rules are rules!

How can we ever trust Democrats to follow other rules, like LAWS, if they refuse to even follow their own rules?

Of course Michigan and Florida delegates must be counted and have full participation in the convention. Hillary is correct and Obama is wrong on this.

Florida should be counted as is, all names were on the ballot.

Michigan should be a do over primary because Obama's name was not on the ballot.

The game is really already over, Hillary has proven she can win big in the big states that are the must wins for the Dems in November.

Obama has been proven unqualified and unelectable.

The Democratic Party has the terribly bad luck this year of having a party chairman whose performance so far has revealed that he is an epitome of incompetence and indecision. His name is Howard Dean. His lack of good judgment, decisiveness and political courage will cost the party dearly. He could have stopped all these insults, negative ads and attacks – the washing of dirty linen in the public – long ago. The Democratic National Committee seems not to care a dime about losing or winning the White House. Its performance so far is akin to some corrupt political organization in a third-world-country. It is more interested in serving the whims of the old-guards and keeping the ineffective old flames burning than winning the presidential contest. This is an unfortunate and sad year for such a political genius like Obama to appear in the race. He has influenced the themes, the methodology and the entire spirit of both the Dem and the Rep parties this year. Yet the NDC has failed to seize the moment.

A mail in primary would be a disaster.
The She-Weasel will flood the system with fraudulent votes. The Clinton's will have so many dead people voting that the USPS will need drop boxes at graveyards.
Make it either straight 50-0 or hold a caucus.
No matter the decision, the She-weasel will find fault.

The BIG question on mail-in ballots is, who will they be mailed TO?

Will independents be allowed to vote? Newly registered voters? Disaffected Republicans who've lost their jobs and are looking to switch parties?

If not, the idea of a mail-in primary is absurd and the results will be invalid.

Mail in ballots? Are you kidding me? Can you say....$$$'s for votes? I lived in South Florida during the 2000 debacle and in the few weeks just before the election, I received 4 new voter ID cards. Each one was just slightly different- different birth month, or day, or year etc. My husband also received 4 new ones. He jokingly asked the poll worker on election day if he could vote again and showed one of the 4 cards and the poll worker shrugged and said "sure". A mail in vote might make the most sense financially but it is not the way to have an honest election.

What I and I believe ,many Americans are concerned is that given the closeness of this race the MAIL-IN BALLOT is not Rigged in favor of a particular Candidate. Hillary Clinton openely disqualified Caucus as an option which I find rather interesting, given the fact that it is cost effective and less likely to be rigged. The question we can ask is what are the prerequisites in place to prevent rigging?

I think the mail-in vote is a great idea.

Re: Uniting

From "Head of State"
http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/03/how-obama-can-win.html

"Saturday, March 08, 2008
How Obama Can Win and Win Strong

I am aware of the delegate math.

I know that, unless the Clinton team runs roughshod with regard to superdelegates, the numbers are unassailable.

However, for Obama to not only win, but to win strong, and thus to be in the best position for the general, he must step outside of the box created when Clinton tactics were applied to his own admirable stance.

By declaring himself the candidate of the new politics, putting the politics of Rove et al. aside for a politics of honesty, straight-forward decency, and strength, he has putatively left the field open for Clinton et al. to lob innuendo after innuendo. If he responds, he is in violation of his commitment to the new; if he continues with his current path of non-response, he will be taken down by a series of attacks, that however false or fantastic, will eventually raises doubts in the mind of the electorate as to the validity of his new politics, and will, in the great viscera of the electorate, so responsive and so easily changed, appear "weak."

If he attacks, it is said, he betrays himself; if he continues on the same path, he is whittled down by rumor and insinuation.

Clinton's current strength is her ability to attack, however true the nature and content of the attacks. Obama must turn this very behavior into its own negative. To do so, Obama must relentlessly name what she is doing and anchor it--calling for an "end to the era of 'kitchen sink' politics, i.e.:

"It's about time that we left the era of "kitchen sink" politics, of distortion and insinuation, behind us. We have all seen it before this--a period where it was often difficult to tell falsehood, rumor, and misinformation from truth. It was this type of politics that contributed to a war in which we have lost the best of our national treasure, our nation's men and women. It is this type of politics that our opponents not so long ago decried. And it is this type of politics that, more than anything else, signals weakness--the inability to base one's statements and actions on the firm ground of truth, on our collective and honest dedication to the construction of a new and positive future--and instead, on a retreat into the politics of personal destruction.

It's time to take out the dirty dishes; It's time to empty the kitchen sink. After an era where it was often difficult to distinguish fantasy from truth, it's time to put that era behind us, to base our future efforts on a strong and honest desire to build a new and better future."

What Obama can create is his own "There you go again" moment--one that will both define Clinton (after all, someone has to do it), and place the Clinton camp in their very own box, of their own making: A box where any attack will immediately be associated in the voter's mind, and will be accompanied by a roll of the voter's eyes, as another example of Clinton's "kitchen sink" politics--of the chaotic, inconsistent, contradictory and frantic willingness to say or do anything to be elected, be it the changing of one's personality, tone, degree of honesty--or one's degree of tolerance or gusto for the politics of personal destruction.

Without a single attack, this demonstrates the nature of the Clinton camp: in a moment of crisis, and in danger of loss, rather than respond with strength, principle and authority, they throw the "kitchen sink" at the issue, abandoning principles and frantically strewing innuendo as they do so.

With powerful moral force, it names exactly what the Clinton camp is doing, and anchors it both to the politics of the past Administration, and to the very political tactics that Clinton herself has denounced and disavowed. It provides direct evidence--thus far, the only direct evidence--of how a Clinton Administration would likely govern in times of chaos, crisis, and other "3 a.m. moments" (thus disempowering her already shaky claims to superior foreign policy judgment): With a "kitchen sink" approach of tumultuous, changing, disorganized and contradictory attack, rather than with consistent purpose and moral authority.

Obama must persistently name what the Clinton camp is doing rather than complain, and he must then link it to the very essence of an old politics that has been lived through by all of us, and denigrated by most, over the past 8 years.

Thus named, and thus defined, Obama can then invite Clinton up to the higher ground--to a debate based on policy and principle--or she can choose to stay in the box that she and her camp have created.

Cite:
Head of State
http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/03/how-obama-can-win.html

For those who have forgotten, I found a very old Web page refreshing our memory about Hillary. For those too young to remember early Hillary, here's some food for thought (copied from the web page):RichardPoe.com
Did Dead Indians Vote For Hillary?
By Richard Poe
October 21, 2002
IT NEVER fails. Probe the deepest, darkest pits of corruption in America and, sooner or later, Hillary Clinton turns up.
Thanks to a Big-Media news blackout, most Americans don?t know that Congressional elections in South Dakota are melting down fast amid charges of Democrat vote fraud ? much of it centered on Indian reservations.
How does Hillary fit in? Let me explain.
Last week, the Senate passed a vote reform bill 92-2. Only two Senators opposed it: Democrats Chuck Schumer and Hillary Clinton.
Among other things, the bill requires voters to show I.D., such as a driver?s license. This will hopefully stop some fraudulent voters.
But Hillary objects. "This would make it more difficult to vote in New York," she complains to the New York Post.
Why do New York Senators oppose vote reform? Is there something about New York elections that makes Democrats in these parts fear a crackdown on fraud?
Many New Yorkers still wonder how such an unpopular figure as Hillary got elected in the first place.
Rumors of voting irregularities have dogged Hillary since Election Day 2000. But no one seems keen to investigate. Even when Hillary won an unheard-of 99 percent of the vote in the Hasidic Jewish town of New Square, N.Y. ? where Bill Clinton had pardoned some local bigwigs convicted of felony fraud ? no one tried very hard to discover whether Hillary had traded those pardons for votes.
We are left with little more than doubts and rumors. Even so, Chuck and Hillary?s anti-vote-reform activism demands explanation.
[…]Hillary is notorious for shady dealings with Indians, such as trading casino rights for campaign contributions. Big-time Democrat donor and Hillary fundraiser Thomas Wilmot of Rochester, N.Y. also happens to be a major Indian casino developer. Did Hillary leverage her backroom Indian deals into votes? We may never know.
In any case, computerized vote-counting has all but rendered "dead-Indian" voting obsolete. High-tech vote fraud is done on keyboards and leaves no paper trail.
Whatever happened in 2000, the future will likely offer worse. Americans need to wake up and smell the coffee, while we still have a chance.
Original content is Copyrighted © by NoDNC.com . Original author(s) retain their own copyright(s). Pursuant to Title 17 U.S.C. 107, other copyrighted work is provided for educational purposes, critical comment, or debate without profit or payment.

Mail-in elections work in Oregon. 80 percent returns and no fraud, but voter pays for the stamp.

Mail-in elections? I'm bellylaughing. This sounds right out of a playbook drafted by the old crooks at Tammany Hall or the contemporary variety in my own Cook County, Illinois. Amazing how the Democratic Party is slowly imploding over its own political correctness. Why doesn't Howard Dean grow a set and simply declare: "The candidates agreed by the primary rules. the Michigan and Florida parties violated the party rules. Too bad, so sad - but the Michigan and florida results are irrelevant. don't like it - take it up with your respective state party leaders - they created the mess, let them live with it." And when Hillary cries "foul" Dean should tell her to shut up and reminder her SHE agreed to the rules. Wishful thinking on my part, but it would be so refreshing to see somebody deal forcefully with the female vampire.

Kate said: "Of course Michigan and Florida delegates must be counted and have full participation in the convention. Hillary is correct and Obama is wrong on this."

Obama is not opposed to the people from FL & MI getting to vote and their delegates counted. He IS opposed to the vote tallies used from flawed and "illegal" primaries being used in lieu of a primary which follows the DNC rules. If FL & MI want their delegates counted the answer is simple and has been made known -- conduct a primary which meets DNC rules.

Kate said: "The game is really already over, Hillary has proven she can win big in the big states that are the must wins for the Dems in November."

SurveyUSA recently polled each individual state to build predicted electoral vote maps for the US. No matter which Democrat runs against McCain, both would take the anchor states of New York, California & Illinois easily. Both would take Ohio. Clinton would take Florida but Obama would take Michigan.

Ultimately, SurveyUSA predicted that either would win the election although Obama wins it by a wider margin and with more states. Clinton's win depends entirely on her winning Florida (which may not happen if Governor Crist is tagged as Veep).

You can see the side-by-side maps and get links to the SurveyUSA results here:
http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Pres/Maps/Mar07.html

Oh yeah. I can't get the Post Orifice to deliver my mail, and especially not anything that appears to contain anything valuable, so let's turn the ballots over to them. (Especially since the P.O. is over-run with o'bammy supporters.)

From a purely economic standpoint the States should gladly offer to redo the elections - They would invest fortunes to have the Super Bowl come to town. There is no bigger circus than the Obama - Clinton election process......
http://thefiresidepost.com/2008/03/07/the-florida-michigan-vote-solution/

Rules are rules...we know who's supporters are saying that. Yeah..lets disenfranchise two purple states, that we will need just so Barack Obama becomes the nominee and loses the election. Hell with that!!! Seat the delegates or re-vote! Cut the BS, dont speak from both sides of your mouth...HRC...08!!!!

Here in Oregon, mail-in elections have been very successful and I personally haven't heard of fraud problems. If for some reason you don't recieve your ballot, you can go to the county clerk's office & get a provisional one. If you have a concern about the usps returning your ballot back for counting, you can drop it off at a designated ballot drop box. Now this doesn't mean that there won't be problems somewhere else, but over the years, the kinks have pretty much been worked out.

Cheaters never proper

This is such a mess! Check out our show today on MobLogic (http://www.moblogic.tv/video/2008/03/08/how-the-dems-screwed-florida/) for even more complications with the Florida primary.

Amanda Elend
moblogic.tv

From a purely economic standpoint the States should gladly offer to redo the elections - They would invest fortunes to have the Super Bowl come to town. There is no bigger circus than the Obama - Clinton election process......
http://thefiresidepost.com/2008/03/07/the-florida-michigan-vote-solution/

Posted by: Ohg Rea Tone | March 9, 2008 3:50 PM

That's what I've been saying as well.

These two states made this mess in the first place and now they want the DNC to pay for something that would reap them great financial benefits.

Come on, people. Don't be so dopey. Follow-the-money, not some sentimental, ill-defined sense of "fairness."

By the way, to an earlier poster, Obama still leads in the popular vote by 500,000 (not counting MI and FL which have clearly yet to vote - otherwise why have another vote).

I think the Fla count should remain since both names were on the ballet. What I do not understand is why Barack's name was not on the MI ballot. Since it was not, that state needs to redo the election procedure. The thing that is astounding about all this is the fact the ANY democrat thought leaving out Fla and MI was ever going to be o.k. Howard Dean was a poor choice as democratic party leader. BTW, the democratic party at this point is in the hole financially and thus not able to fund this redo.

To be honest, i don't understand why all the states don't have thier primaries at the same time. Why do some states seem to get to choose the next presidential candidate and others don't?

What Florida and Michigan did wasn't right, however, the voters weren't the one who screwed up and shouldn't be ones who are punished.

As for vote by mail, what's the big deal. We've been doing vote by mail in oregon for years and it really hasn't been a problem, if anything i think we've considered it a huge success. I personally like it a lot, i get my ballot in the mail, i fill it out, sign a few things and either put it in the mail drop it at a drop box. It's super convenient and no one has an excuse to not vote!

The DNC may not accept the citizens of Florida & Michigan's voice at there convention but come November they can't suppress there voice any longer. I think Florida & Michigan citizens will at that time make very clear there voice! As will there fellow citizens all across this country who believe in a citizens right to have there voice heard and there vote count. The DNC will regret having gotten away with a bad & illegal rule that is in conflict with the constitution of the United States. Our government leaders may not want to take on the issue because they are all part of a party but we the people know wrong when we see it and come November we the people will let the DNC know they should have counted the Florida & Michigan votes and chosen delegates in a open and fair election that was conducted by the government.

Illegal because

1. 2008 first time Primary process is a nation wide process

2 tax payer money used to pay for elections and it crossed state lines to conduct all phases of those state elections

3. Presidents only have come from primaries

4. if the rule had been against a minority not having a right to vote in the primary process or there chosen delegate seated for representation at the conventions do you think the US government would have step in for there voters rights? YES IT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE RIGHT THING TO DO!

"Clinton's win depends entirely on her winning Florida (which may not happen if Governor Crist is tagged as Veep)."

Because of the homophobic "Marriage Protection" constitutional amendment on the Florida ballot this November, I don't think either Clinton or Obama have a chance at winning the state. The amendment easily could have been on the ballot in 2006, but it was delayed specifically to have an impact on the presidential race.

Rodger...Maybe you can tell my why you think your state is more important than the other 48? As a citizen and tax payer I want to know because if the DNC pays for your screw-up there is less money to run against the republican. What gave you the right, after agreeing to this, to feel you are more important. You may be upset, but I can tell you the REST of the 48 states are upset at your arrogance.

The party of change? This is a party that hopes to run the most powerful nation on Earth?

Is this a Vast Left Wing Conspiracy against Hillary?

Everyone agreed to the rules and excluded Florida and Michigan so all we are seeing is is a typical Clinton response of playing the victim.

I was an Edwards guy, so I have no loyalty to ether Ms C or Mr O, I just believe in the democratic process and its things like this that scare me about having another Clinton in the White House.

Keep voting until Clinton wins. Kinda like the Olympics basketball win for the Russia over the USA team..no?

Howard Dean should be fired. The DNC should have never taken away the rights of the voters back in January. What makes the difference when a state votes. Fire Howard Dean. no more donations until he is gone.

I find it amazing that the Clinton supporters want the re-do, ignoring the rules their own party came up with, and the Obama supporters don't want the re-do.

Seeing as I feel that McCain would slaughter Hillary in the General election, I would rather see Clinton win Dem. bid. But rules are rules. Florida and Michigan knew the consequences when they changed their primary dates. Now they should live with their choices.

This is just a great example on how the Democrats will change the rules (laws) whenever it is in their own favor!

Howard Dean should be fired. The DNC should have never taken away the rights of the voters back in January. What makes the difference when a state votes. Fire Howard Dean. no more donations until he is gone.

Posted by: richard | March 10, 2008 12:27 PM

Are you from one of these states. Cause I'ld like to know why you feel that your state is more important than the other 48? Your arrogance, to make your state seem more important is a slap in the face to the rest of America. How dare you.

"Of course Michigan and Florida delegates must be counted and have full participation in the convention. Hillary is correct and Obama is wrong on this.

Florida should be counted as is, all names were on the ballot.

Michigan should be a do over primary because Obama's name was not on the ballot.

The game is really already over, Hillary has proven she can win big in the big states that are the must wins for the Dems in November.

Obama has been proven unqualified and unelectable."

Last time I checked Kate, Obama had a 100 delegate lead. So if you are saying the game is already over and Hillary won, you are just ignorant.

Give me a break.

I am so sick of hearing about the idiot voters in Florida!

They should lose the franchise for one complete elections cycle for the grief and expense caused by their inability to punch a chad and their equally stupid politicians who screwed up their primary big time.

The stupid voters deserve the stupid politicians.

I'm not sure how I feel about Michigan. My gut tells me they should be allowed a due over, but I assume they can't be favored over Florida.

Anyway, since the majority of "snow bunnies" in Florida are auto workers, I guess it's the same people!

How could the Democrats run this country when they can't even run their own primaries. Re: Super Delegates, Michigan and Florida.

This has to be the Democrats "Golden Moment" to take back the White House. Once again they are proving they are their own worst enemy. What is an interesting battle between Cliton and Obama is now turning into the circus the Democratic Party seems to gravitate to.
Michigan and Flordia Democratic leaders new the consequences of their change in the primary dates. They thumbed their noses the national leadership. Now they want a do-over. If the Democrats can't enforce their own rules why should anyone else want to vote that way.
I am sorry for the people of these two states, but do you really think they would be making such a stink if this wasn't such a close race?
Their displeasure should be directed toward their state leadership. I think that any chance the Democrats had of cross-over votes is dwindling rapidy from this fiasco.

What a joke! And their leading by example?? ROFL!

I could be wrong, but I don't think this is a constitutional issue. All voters will be allowed to vote in November. Roger, what is illegal?

"The DNC will regret having gotten away with a bad & illegal rule that is in conflict with the constitution of the United States."

When the DNC or Howard Dean start PAYING they can start having control over the primary Date. The TAXPAYERS are paying in Florida and Michigan, they should have ALL CONTROL

These posts are insane. Obama must agree to this. Obama must do that. Obama falls short.

Huh? When I took arithmetic in grade school, I was equiped to know that Obama's 1366 delegates is more than Hillary's 1237. The Clintons ran. They lost. Now they want to change the rules. Nothing doing. Play by the rules, the candidate with the most delegates wins, the other candidate takes a seat.

Hillary needs to hear the Democratic party say to her, "Thanks, but no thank you..."

I have asked this question many, many times and have never recieved an answer. Leave Obama and Clinton out of this because it's not about them, it's about the voters. That said, I would like to know from any of these voters why they think they are any different than the other 48 states? Their arrogance to make their state seem more important is the problem. Tell me please why you are more important than every other state in the nation?

This must be a right wing conspiracy. It is their own fault that they are in this situation, they knew the consequences when they changed the dates of their primaries. No revote!

i find this really funny. First they pass rules saying that the two are not going to count. Now they are want them to be counted. IF i was a in the state i sure wouldnt want my tax money going to fund this cluster#$#$.

Also with all the super delegates that may not fallow the will of the people and just going to vote how they want its turning into a huge mess.

I usually vote rep. But after Bush and company i was more then willing to vote a diffrent party into power.

but how the DNC is looking then maybe not.

Lest ignorant people forget, the reason why Florida's DEMOCRATIC primary got moved up was because Florida's REPUBLICAN-controlled Legislature and REPUBLICAN governor decided to set their primary election at the early date. Florida's Democrats didn't have a snowball's chance to change that...so you still think Florida Democrats voting for a Democratic presidential nominee should still have their votes takene away because of Florida REPUBLICANS' intentional sabotage of the other party's primary???

Michigan is a somewhat different story--Michigan's Democrats have tried over several cycles to get moved up in the calendar, and with the dire economic straits there--HUGE manufacturing job losses from poorly-formulated and poorly-enforced trade policy, HUGE foreclosure rates because of the sub-prime mortgage crisis, and recovery from poor fiscal policy from years of John Engler's misadministration and GOP legislative control--Michigan desperately wanted the Democratic candidates to talk about those problems and how to fix them. The problems have spread nationwide now...but the desire of Michigan's political leadership to have those issues discussed "out of turn" with an early primary should NOT be a reason to ignore millions of Michigan voters. Doing that would be the equivalent of telling Illinois citizens that we couldn't vote for a governor because George Ryan is a convicted criminal and Rod Blagojevich has been linked to an indicted man on trial.

Let Florida and Michigan BOTH re-vote, and let their state Democratic parties raise the money to do it. If Oregon can manage to do mail-in ballots without fraud, then Michigan can definitely do the same thing.

I say no revote. The rules are the rules. Fla and Mich. decided to break the rules. They now need to live with the consequences. Queen Hillary wants the votes to count as is because she thinks the presidency is an entitlement. She is so wrong. She should take her whiney self and go home.

When the DNC or Howard Dean start PAYING they can start having control over the primary Date. The TAXPAYERS are paying in Florida and Michigan, they should have ALL CONTROL

Posted by: Jim Aaron | March 10, 2008 12:55 PM

When you sign a contract you stand by it. Why do you think you are above that? There is a reason for these rules....if everyone was as arrogant as the Fl and Mi voters, we would start campaigning now for 2012.

i watched THIS WEEK on sunday morning.

i thought governor crist seemed capable of selling me a used car, possibly even a religion.

he pleaded for the right of the voice of his people to be heard. he failed to recognize that they cut in line.

if such election rules had been ignored in florida in 2000, we would have a different president right now. i think it is proper that they followed the rules in 2000, despite the disastrous results -- i call it The Rule of Law.

more importantly, perhaps, governor crist failed to recognize that the people of florida -- and all other states -- have NO RIGHT to choose the nominee of a political party.

i think the two party system is bad -- but it is what it is, which is not direct democracy.

I think a better idea would be an online voting procedure each registered voter could be given a PIN/password and each vote counted would have to have this PIN to vote along with a password. If I can bank online etc. I don't see why we can't vote. It would be much more reliable and less prone to fraud. The expense would be less then mail-in or traditional voting methods and voter participation would skyrocket.

It would be wrong to reward Michigan and Florida by allowing them to vote again. They chose to violate their party rules to gain some kind of advantage and it is not logical or fair to now allow them to do so now.

Subtract the number of delegates allotted to Michigan and Florida from the total number of delegates at the convention to determine a new number needed to gain the nomination for president.

This would serve as a warning to state parties in the future that trying to violate their own national party rules will result in the total loss of their influence. As parents, we try to have our children learn the consequences of their actions; letting them get away with negative behavior only reinforces them.

Florida & Michigan agreed to these rules, then they broke them. This discussion should be over- no new primaries! It's obvious that Hillary feels the need to lie and cheat in order to win the nomination, which is a shame. If she does, the democratic party (and all the fools who voted for her) shouldn't be surprised when McCain wins the presidency.

I'm an independant that voted for Obama, but Hillary made some good points about his lack of experience. I'm tired of all the democrat fighting too.

My sister and I are voting for McCain now.

Funny how it wasn't a real issue until Hilly got herself BEHIND by about 150 delegates. And what could be more ripe for the picking than two disqualified states where she can scoop up ALL the delegates (Convenient when your opponents name isn't even ON the ballot). And that's EXACTLY what this is about. Hilly NEEDS those delegates to try and catch up to Obama. The fact that it's an unfair advantage (Hence illegal and therefor disqualified) means NOTHING To her. I think she's got a great future organizing elections in say Pakistan, or Venezuela, or even perhaps the Soviet Union. All hail Queen Hilly!

Vote by mail is a great idea if you work for the post office (ooppps oxymoron there). Overtime sorting and delivering 'cause the counters can't wait till the next day or 3 for maore ballots. Also great for the envelope makers and printers.
Who actually cares about a bunch of self-unemployed auto workers in MI. and a bunch of retired geezers in FL?

Let Florida and Michigan BOTH re-vote, and let their state Democratic parties raise the money to do it. If Oregon can manage to do mail-in ballots without fraud, then Michigan can definitely do the same thing.

Posted by: Dean | March 10, 2008 1:05 PM

Dean...As one of the "ignorant people " I can understand the frustration. What I can't understand is the outrage at the DNC instead of it directed to the state legislators. I have no problem with a re-do, but I don't believe money needed to run against the republicans in the general is fair either. As far as Florida...I think with Crist..something stinks here. This should be remembered when and if he is a VP candidate.

WHY IS THIS SO HARD?!? Just lower the amount of delegates needed to get the nomination by those missing from Florida and Michigan!

A question to all of you who want to leave MI and FL out of the nominating process:
How are the millions of voters (who had nothing to do with this nonsense)who have been told they don't count in the nominating process supposed to react in the general election?
Are we to rush to the polls to support a candidate and a party that told us to go to hell?
Not likely.
If nothing is done to recognize two of the largest states in the union, then I - a lifelong Democrat - will return the favor. I'll sit it out, or vote GOP. Because, as you've all said here, we don't matter as Democrats.

Thank goodness Howard Dean didn't go far in his attempts to become president, if this is any indication of his leadership abilities. He needs to stand up and say, these are the primary rules, Michigan and Florida violated the party rules. Too bad! Anyone that has a problem with that needs to take it up with their local state party leaders.

Enough already. People, States, Democratic delegates take responsibility for your decisions and live with the consequences.

Of course Michigan and Florida delegates must be counted and have full participation in the convention. Obama is correct and Hillary is wrong on this.

Florida should not be counted as is, all names were on the ballot and Hillary broke the rules by campainging in Florida.

Michigan should be a do over primary because Obama's name was not on the ballot.

The game is really already over, Barack Obama has proven he can win big in the states that are the must wins for the Dems in November.

Clinton has been proven unqualified and unelectable. Obama has the popular vote and delegate lead.

Why Obama should back a revote.

I think it's in Obama's interest to push for a re-vote, for two reasons. First, it brings closure sooner, while he's ahead--without relying on the currently uncommitted superdelegates. Second, it puts him in a better position financially for the general election.

If you make conservative predictions about the votes in future states, he's not going to reach 2025 delegates without winning over a large number of the uncommitted superdelegates. He will, however, maintain a significant total delegate lead. Even with a loss in BOTH Michigan and Florida, he will gain enough delegates to push him over 2025.

With regard to the finances, he is very well funded for the primary race, but may run into a little snag for the general election if McCain pushes on the public funding issue. A primary race in Michigan and Florida allows him to spend primary funds to set up infrastructure there.

Dan

There is a big grassroots movement happening in Florida and michigan to have the people fund a revote at http://floridamichiganrevote.com/ it is a new sit getting a lot of buzz. It is time for one voice one fight one win.