Ayers won't feed Obama 'narrative'

I don't believe Obama's link to Ayers disqualifies him to run for or be POTUS.

However, it does say something about Obama's personality. Ayers' quotes in the last two paragraphs demonstrates a principal or intellectual arrogance that Obama shares to a certain degree. It's exactly what Obama did with the flag lapel pin issue; he took an entrenched symbol of politicians wearing the pin as a sign of patriotism, and fought its over simplification of a complex issue (patriotism).

If we took a step a back and think about it rationally, we'd probably agree with Obama that wearing a flag lapel pin does not equal patriotism. In other words, our patriotism should not be so easily demonstrated by flying a flag or wearing a lapel pin. Patriotism is about making personal sacrifices and compromises for the common good.

However, Obama is running for POTUS and is not having an intellectual discussion in the faculty lounge. He needs to realize that everyday Americans don't have all day to discuss and debate over these abstract issues. We only see and hear that Obama is going against the grain without good reason.

To be viewed as a true leader among equals, as opposed to shepherd of a flock, Obama needs to demonstrate a sense of priority and knowing which fights to pick. Simply put, not every issue is an intellecutal discourse. By the way, wearing a flag lapel pin should be a non-issue.

To me, it's Obama's inability to engage in America's problems at an operating level that drastically reduces his qualifications as POTUS......today or 4 years from now.

There is nothing "former" about Bill Ayers. He is still a Leftwing Loon, and a criminal one at that. He bombed buildings, played in the role of a death of two cops and a security guard, caused millions in damage. It truly is shameful that he is employed at a major university, which only proves the higher education system in this country is a mess and embarrassment. Ayers should be in prison and he should be shunned, not a good buddy of a presidential candidate.

Let the guy live his life.
The only people he hurt was himself.
And the peace movement--according to the documentary Weather Underground.
But the doc seems pretty fair to all involved.
It's posted free here--and it's a horrribly biased site, but at least you can go there.
= = = = =
ttp://rezkowatch.blogspot.com/2008/04
/one-degree-of-separation-kass-obamas.
html
= = = =
Get off the blogs, calm down, and educate yourself.

Wright has not been quiet. He's giving an interview with Bill Moyers on PBS tomorrow night and is speaking with the National Press Club on Monday. Get your facts right.

It's difficult to understand either Ayers or Wright without taking the context of those times into account. There was infinitely more spontaneous protest in campuses, in the streets, in music and movies during that time than there is now. The country ate, drank and breathed real active politics. Neither of these two men deserves to be persecuted. And certainly not Senator Obama. The USA needs to grow up and deal with the matter of this obscene and costly war. Obama is right -- all this other jazz is sheer distraction.

I agree with Andrew. But I don't think Obama does this out of "elitism" but out of an assumption that the general electorate is as nuanced as he is. But it is a sign of how out of touch he is. Which you'd think, being a community organizer, he wouldn't be. What he should have said, instead of all that high falutin stuff, is: Neither John McCain nor Hillary Clinton wears a flag pin, why aren't don't you ever ask them this question." That would have changed the narrative and at least make people realize that it's not fair that he's always asked the patriotism question. And he's gotta stop getting annoyed that his opponents are trying to pin him as unpatriotic and elitist, and just accept it and prove he isn't. It's disgusting that Clinton has resorted to this Rovian tactic, but it shouldn't come as a surprise. Stop whining and strike back. And do what she did in Pennsylvania: In Indiana, stop worrying about your bloody waistline and get in there throw back a coupla shots, chug down that diner coffee and consume some cholesterol. Doing this for the next seven months is not going to kill you. It comes with the territory of your ambitions. ANd take off your tie once in awhile.

Andrew,
Part of the problem with the country and the way politicians act toward the people is a general lack of nuance on the issues. Requiring the gray to be removed, and turning every issue into either black or white doesn't help anyone. Nuance isn't intellectual arrogance, it's reality.
A more complex dialog between politicians and the nation can only be beneficial to the people as a whole, because they can make actual informed decisions, and not just respond to the red meat phrases that are thrown about.

what do the ultra-rich, the "conservative" voters who are afraid of obama's charisma, the "conservative" voters who are afraid of obama's skin color, the radical bigoted anti-male feminists, the clintons, and major radio talk show hosts who love the effect of controversy on their ratings/wallets ALL have in common ???????

ALL of these groups LOVE NEGATIVE CAMPAIGNING

ALL of these groups LOVE TAKING BIG CORPORATION MONEY TO SELL THEIR INFLUENCE SO THEY CAN GET THEIR CANDIDATE ELECTED

ALL of these groups BELIEVES THE ENDS JUSTIFIES THE MEANS AND THEREFORE FEARMONGERING, LYING, NEGATIVE CAMPAIGNING AND INFLUENCE PEDDLING ARE HOW TO WIN ELECTIONS

to a reasonable degree, negative campaigning is no big deal when addressed to the issues BUT NONE OF THESE GROUPS USE NEGATIVE CAMPAIGNING TO A REASONABLE DEGREE AND NONE OF THESE GROUPS STICKS TO THE ISSUES - they flame the fires of "guilt by association" so they and their friends can stay in power - as the republicrats

HILLARY IS LOSING - SHE IS BEHIND - SHE IS TOO FAR BEHIND TO CLOSE THE GAP WITH VOTERS

BUT SHE IS GOING TO END UP WINNING

FOR THE FIRST TIME IN DECADES, WE HAVE HONEST CANDIDATES WHO KNOW ABOUT THE TOUGH CHOICES OUR COUNTRY FACES ON THE VERGE OF ACHIEVING THE NOMINATION OF THE TWO MAJOR PARTIES

YET INSTEAD, ONE OF THE LYING, INFLUENCE-PEDDLING, PANDERING, FEAR-MONGERING FRIENDS OF RADICALS AND THE ULTRA-RICH IS GOING TO BE ELECTED

WHY ?

BECAUSE HILLARY IS USING HER CARVILLE/ROVE TACTICS AGAINST OBAMA AND MCCAIN

AND BIG GREEDY CORPORATE FAT GUYS LOVE IT BECAUSE HER INFLUENCE IS SO CLEARLY FOR SELL

AND RUSH LIMBAUGH IS USING HIS ROVE/CARVILLE TACTICS AGAINST OBAMA AND MCCAIN

AND HIS "CONSTITUENCY" IS LOVING IT BECAUSE in addition to the hard-working folks that tune into his show for entertainment purposes ARE MANY RADICALS AND CLOSETED RACISTS

LIMBAUGH CLAIMS TO BE CONDUCTING "OPERATION CHAOS" TO HELP THE REPUBLICANS - BUT HE HATES MCCAIN

LIMBAUGH WANTS HILLARY ELECTED BECAUSE THEY BOTH REPRESENT THE SAME CORPORATE INTERESTS AND BECAUSE HILLARY WOULD BE GOOD FOR HIS RATINGS WHILE HE PRETENDS NOT TO LIKE HER POLICIES (WHICH OF COURSE, HE LOVES BECAUSE HILLARY WILL CONTINUE TO SELL INFLUENCE TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER WHO WILL BE THE SAME PEOPLE WHO PUT MONEY IN RUSH'S WALLET)

I DON'T HATE HILLARY

I DON'T HATE RUSH

BUT I DO LOVE MY COUNTRY

THOSE RATIONAL AMONG US WHO SEE THAT OBAMA AND MCCAIN FOR ALL OF THEIR IMPERFECTIONS BOTH OFFER THE GREATEST HOPE OF MAKING THIS ONCE AGAIN A GOVERNMENT OF THE PEOPLE INSTEAD OF A GOVERNMENT OF THE RICH AND POWERFUL. WE NEED TO STOP BICKERING WITH EACH OTHER AND GO AFTER THE "WIN AT ALL COST CANDIDATE" - HILLARY CLINTON - HILLARY IS BY FAR THE WORST LIAR AND PANDERER AND FEAR-MONGERER LEFT IN THE RACE !!!

Andrew said: "Ayers' quotes in the last two paragraphs demonstrates a principal or intellectual arrogance that Obama shares to a certain degree. It's exactly what Obama did with the flag lapel pin issue"

Andrew, do you seriously believe that refusing to talk down to people or hand them platitudes, as if they're idiots and can't understand complex issues, is intellectual arrogance?

"The only people he hurt was himself."
Absolute falsehood! Ayers' girlfriend at the time was KILLED because a weathermen bomb accidentally went off near her. That young woman would be an old woman today if she had not gotten herself mixed up with Bill Ayers.

Scire wrote- "But I don't think Obama does this out of "elitism"

I don't think Obama is an elitist; I think an idealist is much more fitting.

However, he needs to decide whether he's using his campiagn to change existing social behavior or win the presidency.....the two have become mutually exclusive.

Jeff,
Nobody forced her to associate with Ayers. How do you know she would've lived to see today? You're so arrogant.

John D. you should check your facts. Ayers surrendered to authorities in 1980. The Brinks robbery wasn't until 1981. He wasn't involved.

It's a byproduct of arguing what the media tells you to. The Ayers story is a reach. The flag lapel a reach. The hoax pledge of allegiance is a lie. The hoax Muslim thing is downright racist. There has been nothing to really convince me or any normal thinking American that Obama is not up for the job.

We're picking a POTUS. Everybody, focus on what it is you want from your President and stop being tools for the media looking for tabloid narrative. Obama was 8 years old when Ayers was performing his civic disobedience. He was a young kid. He's grown. He committed no serious crimes.

Righties, think for yourselves on this one. Be fair. Being a "lefty loon" is not a crime. If it was, YOU would be in jail, too.

I would agree with Mark F's point. I believe Obama is sincerely trying to elevate the discourse to a level that respects the intelligence and decency of "average Americans," as opposed to talking down to them.

It is the likes of O'Reilly and Kristol and Gibson and Russert and oh so many other pundits who are breathtakingly cynical in speaking for the mythical average joe. Sure there are bigots and racists and close-minded folks out there, but my sense is they are not the average.

But with plenty enough Fox/Rove and now Hillary agitprop and the corresponding flinching cynicism of the other networks, suddenly it is Obama who is the elitist. Money, power, and smug knowingness can make one elitist just as much or more than a law school degree or a subtle mind.

I think in fact that Obama is fairly circumspect on this question, whatever his bowling skills.

You'd get pissed, too, if you got sprayed by cops with high pressure fire hoses every time you stood up for your Civil Rights. While I don't agree with the tactics of the weather underground, in the context of the times do you really blame them? I just cannot site here and see Ayers as a huge negative.

Ayers is an arrogant quack. As for Obama, either stand by him or don't, but act out of principle instead of what the latest poll or media frenzy says you should do.

Thinks need to be kept in context. The only Ayers that Obama has known is the neighbor and college professor that served on the same board. Obama was 8 at the time of the Days of Rage, for crying out loud.

Also, you only need to look as far as the current occupant of the Whitehouse to realize that this is not an issue that really matters in any meaningful way. Get over it. The choices are a Bush 3rd term or Obama.

This is always the problem of trying to understand the actions of those opposing authority in other times or era's. I can recall with clarity that on the whole the authority or then the term "establishment" was the perpetrator to the social ills that some call left-wing loons. That is a common epitaph that authoritarian-believer often use, for they pathologically fear that chaos will result with the left. They emotionally partner with the authority and ascribe that the authority is always correct and all that oppose authority are dangerous. The left pathologically fears authority where they will trample on rights of the individual and seek change as a constant move forward. Right wingers look back with reverence and left wingers look forward with hope.

In this case, Ayers has not been a career criminal, in fact he can be considered a political criminal. Ayers apparently has been a productive member of society and should be respected for that. The idea of associative discredit regarding Obama is ludicrous except it provides for a convenient and shallow reason to attack him by his enemies who would be his enemies nonetheless.

Arrogant Jackson, it's really quite simple: I know she wouldn't have been blown up by a bomb because she wouldn't've been handling them if she wasn't involved with the weather underground.

Good Grief! This is a ridiculous reach for you Hillary supporters! Obama was EIGHT years old, for God's sake! Now you call him best friends with Ayers? He served on a board with him. Have any of you served on a board before. You are not automatically best friends with your fellow boardmembers. But, if you are so incensed by this, remember, Bill Clinton pardoned two of the Weather Underground members who were still in legal trouble. So, who do you think made the biggest blunder here? Obama for serving on a board (which, I am sure included other board members. Shall we hunt them down and persecute them?) or Bill Clinton (aka Hillary Clinton) who pardoned two of the former Weather Underground?
People, get your stories straight! Try very hard to think for yourself. Use reason, it really doesn't hurt that bad.

Jeff, it appears you have made a leap of logic without presenting your evidence. You have gone from " That young woman would be an old woman today if she had not gotten herself mixed up with Bill Ayers." to "I know she wouldn't have been blown up by a bomb because she wouldn't've been handling them if she wasn't involved with the weather underground." You are assuming that she was in the weather underground because of Ayers. Please share your evidence that he persuaded her to join, rather than the contrary, or the possibility that they met after joining.

How's the old saying go: "You can jusge a person by the Company he keeps".

Ayers and his terrporist wife thru Barry his first political fundraiser back in the mid-90's.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/2008/04/020358.php

Jeff, it appears you have made a leap of logic without presenting your evidence. You have gone from " That young woman would be an old woman today if she had not gotten herself mixed up with Bill Ayers." to "I know she wouldn't have been blown up by a bomb because she wouldn't've been handling them if she wasn't involved with the weather underground." You are assuming that she was in the weather underground because of Ayers. Please share your evidence that he persuaded her to join, rather than the contrary, or the possibility that they met after joining.