Imagine if the Yankees were 30-16, rather than 21-25, and resided in first place in the AL East. And then the Yankees came out last night and said, "You know our phenomenal setup man, Joba Chamberlain? We're going to turn him into a starting pitcher, right now."
Forget about how the fan base would've reacted. The veteran players on the Yankees might have planned an insurrection. Winning teams don't blow up successful bullpen formulas.
Of course, the Yankees are not a winning team, so they could initiate their plan to convert Joba last night. What are the veterans going to say? They've got no hand, to borrow from Costanza.
It's the right call by the Yankees. As they've shown in the first 46 games, there's minimal value in having a dominant setup man when there aren't many leads to protect. If the Yankees don't make the postsesaon this year, then they very well might next year, and Joba is the guy best equipped to match up against opposing aces like Josh Beckett, Justin Verlander and John Lackey.
The eighth inning this year? It's up to Brian Cashman, Joe Girardi and Dave Eiland to figure that out. Kyle Farnsworth? That's why someone invented "LOL." Ross Ohlendorf? Maybe. Mark Melancon? Can't rule him out. The whole idea is, each year, we see surprise setup men emerge, be it Boston's Hideki Okajima or San Diego's Heath Bell or Chamberlain himself last year. But it's far more rare for surprise aces to emerge. Those, we see coming from a distance. And Joba can be one of those.
As to whose spot Joba takes in the rotation, that will solve itself. The natural choice right now would be Ian Kennedy, so maybe Kennedy takes more time in the minor leagues to work on everything. You certainly can't take Darrell Rasner out of the rotation, not after last night's gem.
I don't know what else to say after last night's fiasco. Well, here's the most important thing: Willie Randolph's apology was absolutely necessary, in order for him to have any chance of saving his job _ and it seems remote at this point, anyway. My three-week proposal, which I mentioned yesterday, didn't anticipate Willie's shooting himself in the foot with the accusations against SNY.
How sad that Willie's obsession with SNY, and how he is portrayed on it, has precipitated his downfall. And "obsession" is the accurate word. Willie lodges complaints, regularly, about the network's coverage, a person in the loop told me yesterday.
Here's something else: I still believe, absolutely, that the Mets can win the World Series this season. Perhaps Jerry Manuel, the likely successor to Randolph if things don't turn around extremely quickly, can simply install a sense of calm in the clubhouse. There is still a great deal of talent here.
Comments (24)
Ken, do you know that Joba will be an ace pitcher? Neither do I. But we all know what Joba can do in the pen.To me the Yankees need to win games right now. For that to happen, the best way to used Joba right now is in the pen. If last night's game been a close game, would the Yanks pitch Joba 2 Innings? I doubt it. Let's say Joba gets knock around in the rotation and suffers the same fate like Hudges and Kennedy. And the bullpen blows leads left and right. Then people like me will be yelling and screaming for Joba to pitch in the pen.
The Mets right now can't win the World Series unless they start playing more consistant. They are a up and down team thta plays SOFT when facing adversity.
And finally Ken, you and collages have count the Yanks out the last 3 years, yet the Yanks have made the playoffs. So don't count the Yanks out just yet considering what's going on in the AL.
Dennis, first of all, I did not count out the Yankees last year:
http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/baseball/blog/2007/06/why_the_yankees_will_win_the_a.html
Second of all, your argument against making Joba a starter is, "What if it doesn't work?" If Benjamin Franklin, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson had that attitude, then we'd all be eating fish and chips and calling elevators "lifts."
Ken, I'm just pointing out your collages in the media that were counting out the Yanks. I was just making a point. As for Joba, were going find out what he can do as a starter and see what happens.
This is a good development for the "Joba" movie coming out in the fall of 2011. Remember - Harrison Ford will play Joe Torre.
Willie Randolph seems like a good, decent human being. He really messed himself up on this one. It is like sending a personal reply to an e mail and hitting the reply to all button by mistake. Not good Willie!
Michael Kay seemed to know what was going on with Joba in advance last night. Just before the ninth inning he said he was starting to be stretched out and then Kim Jones had Girardi confirm this in the post-game interview. So, Kay's friendship with Girardi gives him some inside info that nobody else gets?
Ken, I'll answer your question to me last night here because I just saw it a few minutes ago. I say it looks like Hank because he's the guy doing all the talking--you're right about that. He makes it appear that he has the genuine interest in running the business. I guess the press pushes that image because they want his quotes, but like I said yesterday I hope Hal turns out to be the guy running things. I guess eventually it will come down to a vote with all the owners (if these 2 are actually competing with each other to be managing partner) to see who it will be?
The Steinbrenners control who runs the show. The other owners "own" a tiny fraction of the team. I don't think there is as much tension behind the scenes as some might believe. I think they are substantially on the same page. Hank just doesn't have the same patience although he wants the same things.
Ken is right again that Joba belongs in the rotation now. The Yankees are struggling. Someone else will step up into the set-up role. That's what they pay the players, coaching staff and Cashman the big bucks for. Let's see what Joba can do and hope he turns into an ace.
I agree the Mets could very well win it all. Unfortunately, it will probably be without Randolph. We have all seen managers go into these tailspins. New leadership could turn it around quickly. Right now there is a siege mentality. Give the Wilpons credit (or blame) for not giving Willie the ax after The Collapse. They are among the few owners that wouldn't have done so. I am surprised Willie isn't lying very low this year and just trying to win games.
One thing the Yankees have, in abundance, is relief pitchers. Good, young relief pitchers down in the minors. Three candidates for the setup role, in order of probability: David Robertson, Mark Melancon, J.B. Cox.
The reaction by fans to this news is puzzling to me. In what bizarre world is a setup man more important than a starter? Joba doesn't have to be an ace this year to be more important than a setup man, either. And as Ken pointed out, this a move for the future, as well.
They need to get Joba and Hughes innings or they will never be able to pitch full years.
And seriously, don't fret about the eighth inning. Last time I checked, Joba wasn't the only one who could throw effective pitches in the eighth. I wouldn't give it to any one pitcher at first -- just use Farnsworth, Edwar, Ohlendorf, and whoever they bring up (Robertson, Patterson, Cox, etc.) and see who works best.
Only in New York would the story of a starter-turned-reliever going to the rotation be treated with the confusion and awe of a medical breakthrough.
Hey Jim, how would you know that Joba will be a ace pitcher? Do you have proof that he will? Let's say Joba gets knock around as a starter and the pen blows leads in the 8th Inning left and right. Then people like me, Franceca, Russo etc. will be yelling and screaming for Joba to be in the pen. And the guys the Yanks have in the pen stink except for Rivera.
Dennis, do you not leave your house because you COULD be hit by a car? If you never do anything because of a possible negative outcome, nothing would ever get done.
Here's what people -- brainwashed by Mike and the Mad Dog -- don't seem to understand: Joba is not a reliever becoming a starter; he was a starter who became a reliever. The "experiment" was him becoming a setup man. He started in college and in the minors and was drafted as a starter.
And there's no sense worrying about a possible scenario -- as if Mike and the Mad Dog screaming about something is an earth-shaking idea -- when it might not even happen.
You also underrate the bullpen. And there are more people available than who's currently on the team. Most people don't look beyond the current 25-man roster. The Yankees have many options -- names you'll be hearing plenty about soon enough.
Sandy: It became apparent during the Santana trade negotiations that Hank was an empty, if entertaining, vessel. In January, he kept saying, "I still might trade for Santana. We're still talking." But when I spoke to other officials for both the Yankees and Twins, they said, "No, there's been nothing going on since the winter meetings." IMHO, Twins GM Bill Smith took so long to pull the trigger on Santana because he was reading those Hank quotes and thought, "Hey, this guy is going to panic and up the ante." But the truth was that Hank was all talk.
baileywalk, you took the words right out of my fingers on Dennis. Come on, Dennis! Live a little!
Hey baileywalk, how would you know that Joba is an ace pitcher? Neither do I. But I do know what Joba can do in the pen. Were going to find out what Joba is as a starter.
I never said he was going to be an ace, Dennis. I'm not going to put that burden on him. Especially not right now. But I think, given his track record and stuff, he can be a solid three this year. And they also need him for the future, and in order to get the innings in his arm they need to make him a starter. I believe this will improve the team now and it's a critical move for the future.
But you're right... now we get to sit back and see what happens. And I'm really excited to see how he fares.
Dennis, read my comments: I never said Joba will be an ace. Here's what I wrote: "Let's see what Joba can do and hope he turns into an ace."
Don't you hope he turns into an ace, too? Obviously no one knows if he will. Time will tell. I am glad we will finally see Joba start. Cashman said all along that the plan was for him to start at some point during the year. By the time he is ready to do that, it will be June. Why pitch him three innings a week when we could be getting one or two starts out of him?
Sports is all about taking chances. The kid wants to be a starter. The ballclub wants him to be a starter. He's going to start. Francesa said today that he believes Joba should be a closer. I can't do justice to just how he said it. It was as if God Himself was speaking. Is Francesa smarter than career baseball people? He made a fool of himself again today.
Dennis, Russo and Francesa are babbling buffoons. Quality starters are worth their weight in gold. I hope Joba becomes one.
One thing I'm very happy about is that the yankee front office isn't as obsessed with the Red Sox and the Mets as those two are with the Yankees. Ever since the Yankees signed Pavano to keep him away from Boston and got tremendously burned--they havent been caught in the trap again. In the meantime the Red Sox made that disastrous trade for Gagne last year, who they really didn't need to keep him away from Yankees (although I always thought they should have been afraid of Cleveland) and pretty much everything the Mets have done since they traded for Mike Piazza is in response to the Yankees being the Yankees. Boston and Mets could have been burned badly by overpaying for Santana if there was clear interest by the Yanks, but Minnesota probably lost that game. Just like agents do to increase Yankees interest in their free agents to inflate their prices, GMs are doing now to get more from Theo and Omar to keep players away from the Yankees, supposedly. All 3 of these front offices should worry about themselves and not care about what the other 2 do. I think Cashman already knows that. Theo may be learning, but the Mets....
Ken, This decision as far Joba is concern is a Hank decision. I say Hank had a lot to do with making Joba a starter.
The Mets are self destructing and all you guys have to talk about is Joba. I'm getting sick and tired of Joba. But I do agree with the statement by Jim that Russo and Francesa are buffoons. For a couple of guys who never played anything they sure know all about strategy as well as everything else.348481
One thing about Mike and the Mad Dog is they don't hold back on their opinions. They don't back down to anyone. Mike and Chris are not the smartest people, but they tell there opinion without holding back.
It's still early in the "Santana game." The Mets still might get burned by the big/long contract. Let's also wait and see if the prospects the Twins received, pan out. Ken said it best weeks ago: It is going to take time to evaluate what the Mets did and what the Yankees did (or didn't do).
Dennis: Cashman said at the start of the year that Joba was going to be moved into a starting role at some point with an overall ceiling of about 140 innings for him. With the team struggling, the time to start the process of moving him is now. Hank does not have total control. Hank isn't a bad guy. He just makes lots of noise. Forget about Hank. Cashman is still running the show.
Jim is right, Dennis. Hank had as much to do with the Joba transition as you, me and Jim did.
You are right Dennis. They have an opinion about everything. Only problem is if you don't agree with their opinion they hang up on you before you even can state yours. Do you like people hanging up in your ear?
Have the Yankees told anyone the details of the conversion of Joba to a starter? When does he throw 50, 70, 100 pitches? How many games is it gonna take?
I'm for making him a starter but I can see why some might want him in the bullpen. The thing is, I rarely see startes put in the bullpen unless they have failed as starters. Maybe Dave Righetti but the Yankees (Clyde King) thought it was better for his arm if he relieved instead of started. But what did the Yankees win when Righetti was here, in part because the starters weren't top notch.
I was very dissappointed to hear what Wally Backman did in his personal life with his wife and all.
But this guy is EXACTLY what this team needs. He has won at every level he's managed, and has that fiery attitude that this team clearly lacks.
Backman is the closest thing to Billy Martin, which is what this team clearly needs. Someone who doesn't care about the Wilpons, Omar, the press or the fans. He just wants to win at all costs.
It's time to stop playing by the rules. Just freaking win. Actually, just try to win. With effort will come results.