Fair or unfair, this is on Jerry Manuel
Well, let's start with the new playoff seedings:
AL
Angels (1) vs. Boston (4)
Tampa Bay (2) vs. White Sox (3)
NL
Cubs (1) vs. Mets (4)
Philadelphia (2) vs. Dodgers (3)
After losing their one-run game, the Mets saw (or maybe they didn't - but the rest of us did) the Phillies barely hang on in their one-run game, and then the Brewers fell just short in their one-run game.
So it could've been worse, Mets fans. Had Prince Fielder connected off Kerry Wood in the ninth inning at Wrigley Field, the Mets would've been out of the mix altogether this morning (Yes, yes, I know they're even with the Phillies in the loss column. I'm just sayin').
The Mets' survival over the next 12 games will depend on Jose Reyes, and Carlos Beltran, and David Wright, and Carlos Delgado, and Johan Santana, and Mike Pelfrey, and Oliver Perez, and of course that beleaguered bullpen. But Jerry Manuel probably has the most riding on it.
If the Mets collapse out of the playoffs, can they really bring Manuel back for 2009 to open Citi Field? For all of the goodwill Manuel has won in replacing Willie Randolph, that would be a tough sell to Mets fans, wouldn't it? Whereas all of the key players, with the possible exception of impending free agent Perez, will return.
Maybe Manuel will be fine; the front office and ownership do think very highly of him. Still, after hanging onto Willie Randolph last offseason wound up costing them, it would have be tempting to start fresh in the new ballpark in '09.
(As long as we're on this subject, Omar Minaya will be back, no matter what happens. End of that discussion).
I'm not in Washington, but from a distance, the circumstances don't smell good. Not when Manuel held a team meeting yesterday, as David Lennon wrote here, and that didn't appear to relax the players. Not when Manuel started Argenis Reyes over Luis Castillo, as Dave wrote here. He's pushing his starting pitchers, including Johan Santana, like crazy, as we've discussed on this blog (regarding Mike Pelfrey, specifically) and Ken Rosenthal wrote here.
And the Fernando Tatis injury further gives the Mets the feel of a team in full-blown plummet.
It's somewhat intellectually dishonest to think that a manager can will his team to victory. These are grown men, and they have to do their jobs. Yet if Manuel can get this done, lead the Mets into the playoffs _ preferably the NL East title, but they won't frown upon the wild card _ he'll have a seven-figure contract waiting for him on the other side. So on the flip side, if the "Collapse Part II" plotline continues, Manuel will have to be accountable.
An incredibly anxious fan base awaits.
As a contrarian of sorts, I often find myself criticizing Jeter, just to counter what I feel to be overly exuberant coverage of his "intangibles." Yet at the end of the day, Jeter is an all-timer and a no-question Hall of Famer. And if I had to stake my livelihood on one baseball player who hasn't used illegal PEDs, I would choose Jeter. Just as Jose Canseco did in his memorable sequel, "Vindicated."
I'll be in the Bronx tonight and am very curious to see how Phil Hughes looks.
Nevertheless, Willie has strong ties in Milwaukee. He played there in 1991, he is well-liked by Bud Selig and he has known Brewers GM Doug Melvin since their days as minor-league teammates. And, with Ned Yost fired, the Brewers do have an opening, unless interim skipper Dale Sveum turns things around and makes a stand in the playoffs to get the full-time gig.
Right after the Mets canned Willie, I e-mailed some executives to ask them about Randolph and his future. Here is Melvin's full response. I broke it into paragraphs, in an attempt to improve the flow:
I played with Willie Randolph in 1972 as first-year professionals with the Pittsburgh Pirates. At 18 years of age, he had a passion for the game, and he worked so hard, not only physically but mentally, to be the best he could. His room in Pirate City was next to mine, and while other young players went out, Willie stayed back and we would talk baseball, and being a small-town, Canadian kid with more of a hockey background, I was able to learn from him.
Willie did not show a lot of emotion in workouts, as he took his game preparation seriously, and the results of games seriously, also. We did not have a very good team, and it bothered Willie, even though, as young players, it is easier to be selfish and only care about your own individual performance. He always played the game fundamentally the right way, no flash, no hot dog, just stay within your abilities and do the job you are suppose to do.
Later on, when I was released as a minor league player, our paths crossed again with the New York Yankees - mine as a front office member and Willie as an All-Star 2nd baseman. All the things Willie did in preparing for the major leagues, he carried over as a very succesful but unsung major league player. I cannot tell you if Willie managed the Xs and Os of the game, because the game is so complex, and players' performance helps you succeed with that. I do know some of the other criteria of a manager Willie possesses. Passion, works hard, takes losses hard, knows the game, willing to learn and cares.
If there are some things Willie could get better at I guarantee he will work at it. I am a big believer in second chances, and I hope Willie gets that opportunity.
I did not enjoy seeing what happened, because I know both Willie and Omar, and I know they are both hurt by what transpired. I know we all want it to be a game, but let's face it, it is a tough business.
For an individual who is a candidate in a particular category, voters are asked to consider the totality of their contributions to the game. So for both Hodges and Torre, they are "finalists" on the players ballot, but voters in making their selection should factor in their managerial contributions. Either candidate could be considered on the managers ballot as well (Torre once he retires), and then voters would be asked to consider their player contributions as well.
See you later. And yes, I thought the foggy photo of Manuel aptly symbolized the Mets' foggy, short-term future.
E-mail
Facebook
Digg
Delicious
Comments (32)
If the Mets collapse again like last last year, I would make hold sale changes. Althought Jerry Manuel has done a great job since he took over for Willie Randolph, let's remember Manuel was the bench coach last year and he 's the interim manager this year and if they collapse and don't make the playoffs like last year, I can't bring someone back who was part of both collapses. I know Omar Minaya is close to the Wilpons, but if I'm in charge, Minaya has to go. He has to be held accountable because he is the GM of the team who collapse last year and might collapse this year. I heard Francesa said yesterday that if the Mets collapse and don't make the playoffs, Francesa said the Mets should shaking up the roster and consider trading David Wright, Jose Reyes or Carlos Beltran. Ken what do you think?
Tatis being out for the season will hurt just like Easley being out for the season last year was also.
Big win by the Rays last night. The fact that they beat Beckett twice in the last week is HUGE.
By the way Ken, its 2008 Mariners not Mets.
Funny, I was thinking this morning that Milwaukee, with its small market, supportive fans, and young talented team, would be a great spot for Willie. It'll be interesting to see what happens.
I thought my fellow Fordham man Michael Kay was, as usual, way over the top with the Jeter thing last night, but you know, at the end of the day, it is Lou Gehrig we're talking about. DiMaggio and Mantle played a lot of games on that field, and they didn't get this many hits.
Ken, from a group of Damon, Matsui, Abreau, Giambi, Nady... who do you see staying with the Yanks next year, and in what role?
Thanks for the correction, Dennis. I think it would be asinine to trade Wright, Beltran or Reyes.
Tim, Giambi and Abreu are both gone, unless Abreu accepts arbitration. They'll probably shop around Damon and Matsui, but I bet they wind up keeping both. Matsui won't have much value with a surgically repaired knee and his full, no-trade clause, while Damon is still a pretty good player and would be a good fit in LF (but not CF). I'll predict the '09 Opening Day OF is Damon in LF, a mystery person in CF and Nady in RF.
DC was not the "gangster's paradise".
If the Mets miss the playoffs, there better be a 3am call to Jerry Manuel by Omar Minaya and.or Tony Bernazard, followed by a front office shakeup that throws Bernazard overboard. (Sorry, I just detest Tony and hope he departs unwillingly!)
If the Mets miss the playoffs, it will have been a waste of over $ 250 million in payroll in the past two seasons by Omar on down. How can ownership tolerate this and the bad PR that it creates going into a new park?
If they stand pat, the team slogan would have to be "New Field, New Prices, Same Citi (Wok) Management"
What does anyone hear of Austin Jackson as the possible new mystery center fielder in the Bronx?
Austin Jackson = Sept. 1, 2009. He won't be ready before then.
I'd say Jim's probably right on Jackson, although you know how these things can work. A couple of injuries, and they call him up for a 15-day trial in May, and the next thing you know, he's got the job.
I also wouldn't rule out Melky 100%. There's much to be gained if they can get him back to a point where he can be a suitable place-holder until either Jackson is ready for a more appealing option appears on the trade market/free-agent market.
I am so disgusted as a Mets fan right now (and with just enough optomism to really torture myself)...
I don't care whether they're thinking about last year or the new version of 90210 - something's going on. All season long, they had their standard mix of losses. Either it was the garden variety - bad pitching/hitting/defense (the kind every team has) - or the well documented bullpen meltdowns (their most obvious achilles heel).
But these past two nights don't fit into either category - they're playing tight (a kinder, gentler way of saying they're starting to choke). They're giving away at bats, making mental mistakes, etc.
Thanks to my subscription to the baseball package, I got to watch the ends of the Mets, Phillies and Brewers games last night (maybe I should have been thinking about the new 90210).
The mere suggestion they should trade Wright, Reyes & Beltran is only one of a million reasons I don't listen to Francesa anymore.
On a completely different note, Ken, I have a question - has there ever been a game where both teams clinched at the same time? Not literally, but during the same time period? For example, if the Mets and Cubs clinched on the same day next week (wishful thinking, I know). Just curious.
I am rooting for Melky to make it back and contribute. It's not a crime to be sent down to the minors and get it back together. Hopefully, he will regain in his status and help the Yankees win.
Can the Brewers really hire a guy whose most famous move as a manager is a collapse? After they fell apart at the end of the year twice? It's like hiring a pyromaniac as a fireman.
Centerfield should definitely be an interesting position next year for the Yankees. It's Austin Jackson's job, but who's that one-year placeholder? You have to assume Melky and Gardner will have a nice spring-training battle for it. It would be nice if the Yankees could take either Gardner or Melky, plus a lesser pitching prospect, and get themselves a decent centerfielder for a year so there's no urge to rush Jackson.
By the way, Ken, according to Michael Kay (who supposedly signed a new three-year deal with YES; why, God, why?) the free-agent pitcher the Yanks want the most is!... Ben Sheets. Sounds like he's talking out of his fanny (and who would tell HIM anything, anyway?). I wonder what makes more sense for the Yanks -- Sheets and Burnett at 27/28 mil a year or Sabathia at 20 mil a year.
Andy, what did Francesca say??
I love Manuel, I think he is the right man for this team. I'd want to hear the better options before I canned him.
I wish Willie would have been hired as the interim manager of the Brewers! Now that would have been karma. (obviously I know it had zero chance)
But I think Willie can do well outside of NY. He needs to lighten up and smile more. I saw his face last season at the post season press conference. It was the face of a defeated man. I would have that face too. I respect his effort and his desire...I'd love to see him succeed elsewhere.
If it wasn't for Ike...the Mets probably would miss the playoffs.
I rather throw all the money at Sabathia instead of Sheets and Burnett. Sheets is always hurt and Burnett is inconsistent and gets hurt at times.
I'm not saying that the Mets should consider trading Wright, Reyes or Beltran if the Mets collapse again. But if the Mets do collapse again in back-to-back years, the Mets have to consider shaking up this roster.
RG, Francesa said yesterday that if the Mets collapse again and don't make the playoffs, Francesa said the Mets should shake up the roster and consider trading David Wright, Jose Reyes or Carlos Beltran.
Ken,
:)
'Nuff said.
Andy, I'm not aware of such a scenario occurring. I remember in '05, the Yankees clinched the AL East at Fenway on the second-to-last day of the season, and on the last day, Boston clinched the wild card. That was interesting. But nothing matching what you're saying.
Thanks for the Michael Kay info, baileywalk. Mike is plugged in, but that's an odd one on Sheets. Unless they've heard definitively through back channels that CC ain't coming to NY...
I don't know about Sheets and Burnett. Two guys who can't take the ball every fifth day until it's their walk year...The Brewers were really down on Sheets last year for the injuries, and J.P. Ricciardi had been pretty vocal and public, prior to this year, about A.J. needing to toughen up.
Just my two cents on this Jeter mini-controversy vis a vis Gehrig and the "New Stadium"
Gehrig was a left handed batter, the change in dimensions of the renovated stadium were minimal for left handed batters, indeed, the distances to the right field porch were SHORTER during Gehrig's day (ergo how many MORE HR's did Gehrig have because of that?).
As far as the center field, left center and left field dimensions, how many more hits did Gehrig have because the CF'er and LF'ers had to play DEEPER in order to cover the cavernous death valley out there and keep balls from falling behind them and rolling a mile away from them?
In other words,. how many balls fell IN FRONT of outfielders during Gehrig's day, that would have been caught in Jeter's day?.
It all boils down to, no matter what era they played in, they had to hit the ball where they ain't.
If we were talking about "Most Home Runs", I think an argument could be made about a "tainted" record.
But we are talking about HITS.
Jeter deserves the record, without any hints of asterisks being attached.
It's all the same dirt underneath the cleats.
Just my opinion, from soneone a lot closer geographically to Death Valley.
Jim, it would be a great story, and certainly no one would root against Melky, but I'm not getting my hopes up. Having said that, he and Gardner are the only decent outfield defense we have right now.
BW, I wouldn't touch Burnett with your money... a guy who's thrown that many innings, with his injury history and in a walk year... sounds like Pavano all over again, only with a worse attitude.
I would resign Mussina and Pettitte for a year and an option, and go with with some combo of those two, Wang, Hughes, Joba, Aceves, and Coke.
If Posada can catch, sign Teixiera and have a real every-day first baseman who can protect Alex in the lineup. If not, make Posada the everyday 1B and go get a Rod Barajhas-type who can split the duties with Molina. Make Matsui the DH, and start, as Ken said, Damon - take your pick - Nady in the outfield.
I agree with I-505! Woo-hoo! Although, again, it's a shame that Jeter's record-breaking "hit" was actually an error on Uribe. Was the official scorer petrified that Jeter might not get a clean base hit the rest of the way???
I am agnostic at the moment on whether Manuel stays or goes. I am unsure that there are too many would-be managers who would do a significantly better job. However, I wouldn't mind seeing a Paul DePodesta replace Omar, even though I am sober enough to know that it ain't gonna happen anytime soon.
Again, the Mets need more offense. Given the choice of $15M per season on a position player is a safer bet, albeit not without risk, than on pitcher commanding a similar amount. Banking on effective relief pitching every spring is a mug's game. (Assume the worst, hope for the best, and see what happens.)
Ken, Tim mentions making Posada the everyday first basemen. I know Posada doesn't want that, but do you think part of that decision will be made based on the fact that the Yankees just gave him a monster contract as one of the best-hitting catchers in baseball? In other words, will the embarrassment of not getting a single catching year out of that four-year deal make the Yankees reluctant to make Posada a first baseman?
Tim, what makes you say Burnett has a worse attitude than Pavano? The only negative thing I remember is him saying he wants to be a Cub...which was pretty disgusting considering he's on a team.
But was there anything else I missed? Thanks.
Perhaps the best solution for the Yankees would be to lobby to eliminate the designated hitter rule? This way they would be forced to address the hig salaried but limited skills players they have on their roster?
Yes, it will never happen, but when your lineup appears to be made up of far too many 3 tool players akin to the Oakland A's "Moneyball" teams at ten times to cost, something is seriously wrong. (And if you count emotional maturity as another tool, there are some players who lack that ability)
Why would Cashman want to stay around and have to deal with this mess in 2009? I'm waiting for Pat Gillick to be named GM in November.
It's not just the contract, BW (though that's a factor). They need his bat, and his clubhouse presence. But mostly his bat.
Richie... there's been many tales out of Toronto about how AJ doesn't get along with his teammates, is surly and a bit of a complainer. Ricciardi himself said that he needs to get tougher. His injury and "injury" history is similar to Pavano's as well. Must be something about ex-Marlins :>).
Apparently, things have improved with him and the Jays this year. Some say it's because of Cito. A few others have mentioned, maybe, it's the walk year thing.
If the Mets lose out by one game or two, it's all on the players. It's on them for the gutless showings and half-hearted effort they gave through the first game of the season to the day Willie got fired. They didn't try, they wanted him out and when he was gone, they started to play. Therefore since only some of this can actually be blamed on Jerry Manuel he has to come back. You really can't blame him for the way these guys played the first 2 1/2 months, you can't blame him for the injuries and you really can't balme him for the bad bullpen. Let him get the input to form a team and then see what he can do from day one. He was fairly good for the White Sox for awhile, give hima chance.
I'm not suggesting they cut Posada. My question to Ken is: even if it's obvious Posada's shoulder isn't allowing him to throw out runners, will they keep him at catcher because they'll look monumentally stupid for giving him that contract if he's already a first basemen in year two of the deal?
This is totally off-topic and has nothing to do with the Mets or Yankees, but I was just thinking that it's a shame Roy Halladay is going to get screwed out of another Cy because Cliff Lee has put up a 22-2 record. Lee's year has been good, but Roy's has been much better -- besides the useless wins category, Roy has him beat in just about everything else. Ervin Santana is also having a terrific year (you hardly hear about him). And very quietly -- almost in total silence -- King Felix fulfilled his potential this year.
Good point, baileywalk. When you have a moment, click here: http://vegaswatch.net/2008/09/lee-vs-halladay.html
The post provides a good Cy Young comparison between the two pitchers. You can make a convincing case for either guy.
OMG! Via BaseballMusings.com, check out the photo with accompanying caption, taken following last night's loss in DC:
http://www.nationalsenquirer.com/2008/09/choke-tastic.html
If the season finished today, the Mets make the playoffs. My only real concern is the Mets have to start Brandon Knight once and Jon Niese twice down the stretch. For those paying attention, Joe Smith is now pitching very well and should be given the ball as much as possible.
Great Midweek Insider Ken. I really enjoyed reading about Giambi's behind the scenes activity. It was nice to hear. With the numbers he put up this year, I am sure some team will give him a decent contract.
Good call, Jim. It's a great article. I know Giambi has messed up often, but he seems like a genuinely good guy.
It's amazing that a team loaded with guys like Tino, O'Neill, Bernie, Jeter, Torre, et al., would fight over whether or not a trainer got extra money. That's pretty shocking, actually. I would think millionaires like the Yankees would see it as a positive -- being able to help people (not just the trainers but journeymen-type players who are only making the minimum).
If the Mets continue to go down the road to collapse, it makes perfect sense to part ways with both Manuel and Minaya. Wouldn't it be interesting if Cashman remains unsigned while the Mets have a GM opening? We all know Cashman wants to stay in NY due to family considerations. The Mets would probably love to "steal" the Yankees' GM. Cashman could play this for all it is worth, i.e. more $$$, having Hank's lips sewn shut shut and no "advisory committee."
An interesting scenario, wouldn't you say Ken?
OK, guys, catching up before I pack up for the ballpark:
baileywalk, interesting question on Posada, and I think it depends on which inmate is running the asylum next year. If Cashman returns, I don't think he'll let pride get in the way. If Hank actually starts working for a living, and Posada tells him, "Hank, I'm a catcher. The shoulder will get stronger," then all bets are off. I think the first scenario is more likely.
Jim, that would be funny if Cashman joined the Mets. The second year I hosted the BBWAA dinner, Cashman and Wilpon had a very friendly conversation. But I'm convinced there is a less-than-zero possibility that Omar gets canned. He's far more likely to get extended.
I-505, interesting point about Gehrig/old Stadium.
You did a good job hosting the dinner, Ken. Sometimes it can be a little stuffy, but you kept it light and airy and moving. There were some good laughs.
Thanks, Jim! And thanks to Jim and baileywalk for reading the Giambi story.