The lonely Rays of Tampa Bay
I spoke yesterday with a buddy of mine who lives in the Tampa area, and he was fired up about the Rays, understandably so.
Quickly, we moved to the hot topic of the Rays' attendance, which, coincidentally enough, turned out to be the subject of a New York Times story today.
Despite their terrific year, the Rays rank just 26th in attendance, with an average crowd of 21,460 (thanks to the Elias Sports Bureau). It is rather remarkable. Last night's game against the Yankees drew an announced crowd of 21,629 to Tropicana Field.
As a point of comparison, I whipped out my scorebook from the 2001 season and looked at Oct.4-7, when the Yankees closed out the regular season schedule at Tropicana Field. This might have been the low point of the Rays franchise; they had virtually nothing worth watching. The only players still active from those clubs are Chris Gomez, Toby Hall, Aubrey Huff and Randy Winn. And, burying the lead, this was less than a month after 9/11. These games actually had been rescheduled from earlier, and people had bigger issues than baseball on their mind.
Nevertheless, those games drew 15,265; 22,028; 25,511; and 24,075. Three out of four topped last night's, which featured a dynamic Rays team marching toward its first playoff berth against the hated/loved (if diminished) Yankees.
The problem, my friend said, lies a great deal in the ballpark's location. He lives in Wesley Chapel, a development north of Tampa. Look at how long it takes him to get from his town to The Trop, which is in somewhat remote St. Petersburg.
"If they played where the Buccaneers played football," my friend said, "I'd go to a lot more games. And so would a lot of other people." The Bucs play in Tampa, across the street from Legends Field.
As Buster Olney wrote in the middle of this blog entry, and as Elias' Bob Waterman echoed to me this morning, surprisingly good teams like the Rays usually experience their biggest hit the NEXT season. It'll be interesting to monitor that.
In the meantime, you just hope that the Rays can at least sell out their playoff games. But also, let's see what happens with the Rays' plans for a new ballpark. Right now, they want to set it up in St. Pete. But does that make the most sense?
Sandy, your opinion is requested, if not downright required.
But meanwhile, such conservatism does make the Yankees' interest in CC Sabathia more understandable. Although, I still think CC winds up going West, and that the Yankees are better off finding a solution that costs fewer dollars and years.
Forget about the helicopter-crash part, and that's the Mets. They're just throwing pitcher after pitcher at the problem. Jon Niese can't get 10 outs? More pitchers. Pedro Martinez's Saturday start is in question? More pitchers.
And yet they're surviving. At worst, the Mets will finish this road trip 5-3, and they'll definitely be in first place. As JE pointed out, the bullpen has now twirled 13 consecutive scoreless innings.
The Mets have days off tomorrow, next Monday and then Thursday, Sept. 11, which will allow them to avoid going to Jon Niese again until Tuesday, Sept. 16, if they want to work it that way (and that's what Jerry Manuel sounded like he wants, in his post-game comments last night). That will also give their relievers some much-needed rest. But starting Friday, Sept. 12, it'll be a 17-game sprint to the finish line, without a day off. Just like last year, in other words.
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Comments (24)
I know Niese has his own post below, but anyway...
I didn't watch every pitch he threw, and I'm not making a final judgement based on his debut, but I thought Niese just looked okay. That was my reaction: meh. The one thing he has going for him is a really funky delivery, which seems like it could be deceptive. But on the other hand, as soon as the Brewers saw him a few times, he literally couldn't get an out.
And is it just me, or does Niese look an awful lot like actor Richard Edson?
the reason for the lower attendance compared to year's past (during a Yankees game) is because all of the bandwagon Yankees fans that live all over the country (especially in Tampa-St. Pete) have already given up on the '08 Yankees. The Rays did average more than 30K in the last series against the last-place Orioles.
Teams definitely draw more the following year after they first become good, I remember that from the 84 Mets. But there's a lot of logic to that. Nobody believes in them in April May and much of June.
I would think once big September games rolls around, they would start believing.
But its not like Tampa is a long suffering fan base. It was probably ill conceived from the start.
Weeks looked to be safe last night at 2nd base...it was hard to tell. But as Hernandez pointed out...he made a horrible slide. Fundamentals you only see in the Major Leagues. He also didn't seem to be running his hardest from 1st to 2nd...which is odd. Most non-hustlers will run full speed from 1st to 2nd but not out of the box. Weeks looked like he busted it out of the box but didn't sprint to the finish line. Very very very very costly.
And Gary Cohen said Prince Fielder didn't bust it down the line on his obvious DP ball. I'm pretty surprised...I thought the Brewers were a grittier team than most.
Lastly, Beltrans demeanor really reminds me of Kevin McReyonolds. Which is why I think the fans will never love him here.
Great Mets win last night!
Baileywalk, you couldn't be more correct on Neise and his resemblance to actor Richard Edson. I know Mr. Edson has a slew of movies to his credit but he'll always be known for his great line in Ferris Bueller. When asked by Matthew Broderick 'Excuse me do you speak English?' Edson replies 'what country do you think this is?
~H
I guess New Yorkers must find some way to belittle the season the Rays have had and why not do it by playing the attendance card.
Guess what....We don't give a flying ****
We have an 11 game lead over your 200 Million dollar payroll and laugh at you now.
Pavano will get rocked this evening in front of a crowd of 30K+.
Fun fact: Purple lipstick boy has 1 RBI in the 9th inning this
No one's belittling the Rays and its a definite sign of progress that we now have trash talking Rays fans. Richi'es right, attendance is usually much greater the year after a successful season as season ticket packages are purchased in greater numbers and there is a greater "buzz" for a team.
Matt T - the buzz will be dwarfed by college and pro football immediately.
I sympathize with baseball fans in the Tampa area. They were unfairly sentenced to the worst ownership in baseball, the SF Giants were not allowed to move there by MLB, too many strip clubs and metal detectors per capita, having to drive 50 minutes to get to the park (try that in NYC)...well, not symoathy for the last one.
The franchise should have been located near Orlando, to take advantage of the D-World, etc - and as opposed to buying the Angels, Disney should have bought the Rays and operated them as part of their Florida entertainment center.
To the Rays fan: first of all, calm down.
Second: this isn't a New York issue. All of baseball has been talking about the paltry draws at the Trop. It's a bigger issue because Floridians just don't seem to want to go to baseball games. They didn't support the Marlins in '97 or '03, and now the Rays have made a shocking turnaround and they don't seem to want to support them either.
For a team that hasn't have a winning season since they came into Baseball, the Rays can't expect fans to flock to the stadium right away. This is the Rays first winning season ever. Tropicana Field is a dump and they need a new stadium in order for the Rays to compete long term. And for the Rays to get more fans into the seats they need to keep having success on the field for a extended period of time for that to happen.
If the Yanks offer the most money to Sabathia, it will be very hard for me to see Sabathia turn that down. He would show me if he did.
Just out of curiosity, I looked up the Rays' seat prices. The most expensive ticket listed, for a day-of "prime game," is $272.
So basically the best seat in the house is $270. That's unbelievable. I could get four behind-the-dugout seats for the price of one I bought at Yankee Stadium to see the Yanks play these very same Rays.
As for the "they need a new stadium" argument...
If the citizens of the Tampa Bay area want to pay for this, fine.
I am extremely opposed to corporate welfare for millionaires - and as I have mentioned before, even Don Fehr is opposed even though it may cause spending on player salaries to drop.
And If everyone built a new stadium, the benefits disappear. it's like nuclear proliferation - we're back to where we started without addressing the actual problems of development of a core fan base above 15,000 people.
It's important to note that those games in 2001 were at the end of the season, on a weekend.
This is a mid-week series during a holiday-shortened week. The location of the stadium dictates people in Tampa have to leave work early to get to the stadium by the first pitch. That's difficult to do during a holiday week. Check the attendance from this past weekend against lowly Baltimore. 34,805 and 32,379 on Saturday and Sunday, when people can actually get out to the park.
Tampa Bay's median income is ranked 28th of all MLB cities. Not many people are in a position to duck out of work early to catch a game on a weeknight.
Attendance is up 25% from last year. The Rays are in a positive swing for attendance, you may not see it if all you watch is the highlights on ESPN.
I have been a loyal Rays fan since '99 and and have seen something things about this ton's support I thought I would never see. When I walk down the street, I don't see the "NY" caps that I used, i see "TB." I mean, the merchandise alone is up 70%. That will translate in attendance, anyone with a basic degree in business can figure that one out.
Go Rays and long live the '94 Expos!
First of all Tampa's attendance is up more than 30% over last season and is the biggest increase in baseball this year. I even think they are doing much better than Washington which has a new park and should have drawn well but only get 9,000 (everyone JE knows I suppose) watching on TV per game which is a disgrace. Tampa is a very provincial area, St Pete's don't like to go to Tampa and vice versa, the area is wide-spread and access from the beach (where the wealthy are and most likely baseball fans) sux, the roads arent that great and traffic sux. I know over there the interest in the team is extremely high and them beating the Yankees and Sox is like icing on the cake. They draw a lot better on weekends (Saturday nights are concert nights after the game) and some afternoons draw well, so I would suppose the traffic is the main reason they don't draw at night.
What I would like to know, since I had to start paying attention to them, this team is very similar in storyline to the 1969 Mets. And that is a team that fans around baseball fell in love with as they showed they were for real. Real underdogs making good and beating the best team in baseball to win the WS. Of course that was New York and this is Tampa, but how are people looking at this team outside my area? Is there any interest in them at all to see them win it (since the Yankees are finito). Could you all root for them? They really play their hearts out and considering their 2 best players have been hurt for the past month and they have actually increased their lead speaks volumes on how good they probably are.
Also I should meantion there are still some hard feelings over there about how the previous owner ran the team and how baseball played with them over the years in order for teams to get (White Sox Giants) new stadiums built in their cities. in that respect it is somewhat like Miami where the fans have consistently been alienated over the years and ae totally apathetic.
"Is there any interest in them at all to see them win it (since the Yankees are finito). Could you all root for them?"
Sandy,
When postseason hits and my team ain't in it, I simply root for good baseball.
While my natural inkling is to root for an AL team in the WS (except Boston), I will switch allegiances if there is something about a NL that catches my fancy.
As far as Tampa?
I will admit that they have made me eat crow this year (JE?--road trips in August?) and I continue to be "more than surprised" by them.
Sure, I could catch their fire come postseason....BUT...I always have a hard time rooting for teams that play their home games in movie theaters.
I HATE DOMES AND CARPETS.
It just ain't right.
Speaking as a business school grad, the increase in attendance per game is 18.8% (17131 to 21460) per baseballreference.com
The marketing increase of 70% still leaves the Rays at 29th in MLB marketing revenues, but it is an increase from 0.3% of MLB's total to 0.51%.
Te organization's biggest hurdle will be how to keep players who will be eligible for free agency and avoid selling off players like the A's and Marlins did, thereby angering a fan base that voted for a tax increase for a new park and the merchandise.
But for now let's enjoy the ride......
Baseball put a team in Arizona, where half of the major league teams have spring training in Arizona. The D'Backs had some early success by spending on free agents, capping off by winning the World Series in 2001. There attendance was good at the start. But then the team went downhill as the players got older and the attendance started to drop. Ownership change hands, and the D'Backs rebuild the team with young players and are now in the thick of the pennant race after making the playoffs last year. Their attendance at Chase Field (used to be the BOB) has not pick up. The D'Backs have struggle to put fans in the seat despite being in a pennant race.
Frank Deford on Si.com wrote an article today about A-Rod's struggles in clutch situations and why he thinks A-Rod is playing the wrong sport.
Here's the link if your interested
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/frank_deford/09/03/team.player/index.html
Islander505, how about teams with retractable roof stadiums that have grass fields like Safeco Field, Miller Park, Minute Maid Park and Chase Field. How would you describe those parks?
I think somehow if the Rays make it to the WS baseball fans will rally to their side vs. any team except the Cubs.
Being down in Florida and someone who tries to avoid ESPN as much as possible, I see the Rays and the Cubs as probably the two biggest stories of this season. However, I havent seen much coverage of the Rays nationally and I doubt few people can name many Rays, the Cubs OTOH because of WGN and Fox and ESPN everyone knows. Like I said if this was the Mets the coverage would be wall to wall. For the most part the Rays are likeable, the got rid of the troublemakers and Longoria will probably be a superstar. Kazmir Sheilds and Garza are as good as any 3 starters on any team and the biggest surprises are the 2 stiffs, Sonnanstine and Edwin Jackson, the team e.r.a. is about 3.7 right now which is about a full run per game less than last season. I also think they have won 10 games at least in their last at bats this season. The hitting has fallen off drastically since the beginning of the year but the pitching has come on as that fell off. Not enough credit has been given to Andrew Friedman for stealing Garza and Joe Madden for being a real good manager.
Sandy, I dont think its fair to call any fan base a disgrace, even if they have horrible attendance. I'm not a loyal Mets fan. Hell...when Delgado and Castillo are up I root for them to get out. And though I wanted the Mets to win, I was rooting hard against Glavine the last game last year. But...
even if I was a diehard Mets fan...I still wouldn't go to many games. Its just too much money. That doesn't make me a disgrace. I just prioritize my time and money. And the Mets are very distant in that priority. So to call any fan base a disgrace in this economy, I feel is just wrong.
If the people aren't coming, its the Rays job to make them come. Obviously winning isn't enough. Get new PR people. And if its Washington that you meant as the disgrace, then can you really blame the fans at all? Their team doesn't win.
Sandy, Nationals Park is usually half-full during night games and up to three-quarters at capacity on many weekends. Season ticket sales are a little above 20K, if my memory serves me correctly. There don't seem to be too many game-day ticket purchases though. Of course, the Nats are a lousy team, but the sport is still new to much of the area population, and the stadium is in a part of town that is foreign to many long-time residents, let alone the transient community.
Yes, no one is watching the games on TV, but most of that blame goes to the MASN-Comcast dispute. In any event, Angelos is the one who has been taking a bath this year, since the Nats ownership received a flat fee ($25M?) for this year's television rights.
Richie I said 9,000 fans watching the Nationals game on MASN is a disgrace. That is for the whole atlantic region that covers MASN.
Angelos deserves whatever he gets until he sells out. He's also a disgrace.
The Rays PR people are trying very hard to get crowds, look at their Saturday nights this year when they had post-game concerts. I've never been inside that place but it's a dump. They have done a few things to make it more comfortable but a dump is a dump. OTOH the Tampa Bay Lightning hold the attendance record for that stadium, then known as the ThunderDome.
Dennis
"Islander505, how about teams with retractable roof stadiums that have grass fields like Safeco Field, Miller Park, Minute Maid Park and Chase Field. How would you describe those parks"
Thumbs up!!
As Richie-call me Dick- Allen said many years ago....
"If horses can't eat it, I don't like it".
Islanders, I never called you a Dick...(yet) j/k