Ken Davidoff's baseball insider

Even after all these years I am not sure how I feel about Rose and whether he should be allowed in ballparks, etc. He violated baseball's cardinal rule. Then he lied about it for years. Fay Vincent was wrong to do what he did, although considering some of the people elected to the HOF in recent years, maybe Vincent was on to something. What a disgrace it would have been if Rose was enshrined.

Ken - Rose admitted betting on his team (and de facto bet against it when he didn't put money down) while a player-manager for the Reds. The rules are posted on the locker roon door of every major and minor league site and are very specific - Rose saw these signs about ten thousand times but didn't think they applied to him.

Using your logic from the other day regarding one Barry Lamar Bonds, I would say that your position should be that Pete Rose damaged his entire career by his actions at its end (and after) when he lied to all of us and then had to write a second book to apologize (and cash in for telling the supposed truth). Go away!

Rose can buy a ticket and stand in line with everyone else - it will leave him less pocket cash to bet on the ponies or whatever his vice is nowadays.

Let Pete Rose throw out the first pitch for tonite's game ? I'd "bet against it"...Rose might be confused and think it's means to throw the game !

Ken, there are a ton of greater sins than what Rose did in my opinion. And one of them is losing on purpose. (No, I'm not saying that when you BJ Upton it you lose on purpose)...I'm talking about Gary Sheffield. He ADMITTEDLY made errors to get himself traded. ADMITTEDLY!!! At least Manny tried to remember which leg hurt. Anytime a player ADMITTINGLY goes on Operation Shutdown, he should be banned for life, like Rose.

I tihnk this Rose thing is a joke. What he did was obviously wrong, but he didn't try to lose like Manny and Sheffield, and he didn't cheat like Sheffield (and probably Manny) and all the other steroid users. They should be banned for life as well. If only Rose got caught as a player, the Union never would have allowed him to be suspended. At least not for life.

Rose should be inducted to the HOF for what he did as a player. What he accomplish as a player should be honor. As for whether he should be allow to be involve in the sport, that's a different story. Betting on baseball is illegal and Rose disgrace the sport because of it. Selig and company would be nuts if they allow Rose to work for any team in baseball ever again.
Seattle and Cleveland are 2 cities that can't get out of their own way when it comes to championships. Cleveland hasn't won a major sports championship since 1964 when the Browns won the NFL Championship (per-merger). The Cavaliers have been to the NBA Finals once in their history in '07 and got swept by the Spurs. And the Indians have not won the World Series since 1948. Seattle has not won a major sports championship since 1979 when the Seattle SuperSonics (now the Oklahoma City Thunder) won the NBA championship. The Mariners have been to the ALCS 3 times. And the Seahawks went to the Super Bowl once losing to the Steelers in Super Bowl XL in one of the worse officiated Super Bowls I ever seen.

And I know what it says that your banned for life if you bet on baseball, but they really need to update their ruels. Betting on your team is bad, but I'd rather play with a guy that puts his money on his team than play with a guy that tries to make his team lose. In the immortal words of Marge Simpson, "Duhhh."

And Dennis, both Cleve/Seattle dont have hockey teams.

Richie, it is well established that Sheffield never purposely threw balls into the stands. Yes, he's that insane - Sheff admits to a crime that he didn't commit. I'll tell you what - it would've been pretty tough for the union to contest the mountain of evidence that Dowd gathered on Rose.

The reason betting on baseball is soooo much worse than steroids, IMHO, is because your intentions are called into question. The guys who juiced were helping their team. I think that's indisputable. But as Bob wrote earlier, Rose bet on the Reds only on certain days. That means that, when he didn't bet on them, he was essentially betting against them - might have been less likely to use his important relievers those days, etc. His intentions could absolutely be called into question.

Bob, I had no problem with Bonds appearing at the Giants' anniversary celebration this year. That's all I'm saying Rose should be allowed to do.

I have no problem with Bonds appearing at any Giants event - as he has NOT been comvicted of anything or ADMITTED to any crime - unlike Rose. It really is a question of individual team PR and how they chose to market themselves.

Willie McCovy and Duke Snider, two HOF'ers pleaded guilty to federal tax evasion charges and Duke was still at many Dodger events and they built a statue of McCovey at the ballpark in SF.
Keith Hernandez, Paul Molitor - all is forgiven..

By the way, whatever happened to Kim Bell (Bonds' mistress) and the supposed federal tax cheat charges against Bonds - they were not listed in the San Francisco DA's indictments?

I guewss Bell lost credibility after the Playboy shoot and the fact that if steroids do cause impotence, she was only hanging out with Bonds due to his shining warmth and personality. I guess the evidence of the affair couldn't stand up in court.

Ken - why the soft stance on Rose...?
He was a troll...a man-child that never grew up.

I'm ambivalent about the Series. Let's hope the Rays make it interesting tonight.

And why a Pete Rose WS appearance in Phiily?

As a 39 year old first baseman..
162G, 1 HR, 64 RBI, .282/.352 /.354 and 94OPS+

Only Art Howe, Willie Montanez and John Milner were as feeble offensively playing 1B! His value must have been elsewhere - I don't mean leadership or other intangibles.

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1124212/1/index.htm

I really wish Pena didn't score in the 4th. I guess Game 5 of the World Series isn't enough reason to hustle. He hits a double, stares at the ball and lands on 2nd when he could have EASILY been on 3rd!!!! I would say unreal, but sadly, its very real.

I mean C'MON!!!!!!

Ken, very good points on Rose betting against his team on days he didn't bet. Though I would bet he played to win every game the same. But I do see your point.

And I did not hear that Sheff didn't do that. I thought he had.

RG - and the popup - why wast Rocco Baldelli NOT at second base? It would have prevented the double play that followed

Right now its rainy, cold and windy and they are playing as we speak.

Bob I was JUST writing that. They didn't show it but I cant believe he couldn't have been on 2nd.

Ken, maybe the 2007 Mets couldn't have won an extra game (maybe haha) but the 2008 Rays certainly could have. If they cared enough to run. Which they obviously dont. Unfreakingbelievable...except its very believable. Next time I hear how much guts Rocco has, I'm going to puke.

Pet Peeve alert btw. Utley makes a very good play pretending to tag Baldelli on the very next play (I dont think he actually did tag him) and McCarver says something like and a good job to have the wherewithall to throw to first. What the hell was he supposed to do next?? What player wouldn't have the wherewithall to throw to first?? Brilliant Utley, brilliant.

Kazmir is now out of the game in the 5th with 2 on and nobody out on 2 walks. But Kazmir didn't get help from the home plate umpire Jeff Kellogg, who I think squeeze Kazmir on certain pitches tonight.The last pitch that Kazmir threw was a 3-2 pitch to Burrell that was close but was call ball 4 by Kellogg.

" I don't think the heavy stuff's gonna come down for quite a while."

Ken - you said that they had to play Game 3 no matter what the delay becuse the Tuesday forecast was bad?

While the grounds crew was working on the field, FOX went to Ken Rosenthal and he said something interesting about the umps. Rosenthal said that under the umpire's CBA, umps can't work back-to-back series in the postseason in the same year. Rosenthal also said that the umps can't work back-to-back World Series. And the CBA for the umpires expires at the end of next season. Perhaps baseball should get the best umpires to be involve in the postseason.

Fox will fill the rain delay with more commericals - I suggest that they start by using the ever growing forehead of Joe Buck to promote "House" and 24"?

Joe Buck and McCarver are worse than the umps. They keep saying that the Rays run saved their season because they may not have been able to continue to play. But give me a break, like they really would have suspended the game and not come back??? They never would have delayed it in the first place. Ken, I need to breathe...I'm watching football. Peace out!! I'm outta here!!!

JE, Dennis, Tufts, Sandy, even you Jim...see you when I see you!!! I'm done with baseball forever!!!

Bob...tell me you like 24?? I cant take you hating Entourage AND 24!!

RG - escape to the world of real steroid use, fans who drink away their sabbath, paranoid coaches and megaviolence.....Chris Berman and Tom Jackson and Keyshawn........nooooooo!!

And I don't like "24"...or "Mad Men". Sports is my realtiy show.
Sorry!

Its ok Bob. I love 24 though...cant wait for it to come back.

At least in football steroids is accepted.

But seriously, watching the Rays tonight disgusted me. Absolutely disgusted.

Starting the game in the first place...another brilliant decision by Selig !

RG, the NFL doesn't take the beating that Baseball takes when it comes to steriods because the NFL was ahead of the curve by putting in a drug testing policy before Baseball, the NBA and the NHL did. And baseball is all about stats like home runs while stats in football don't mean much. People care about home run sluggers taking steriods than offensive lineman weighting over 300 pounds taking steriods.
Game 5 of the World Series has been suspended for night with the Phillies and Rays tied at 2-2 heading into the bottom of the 6th. Play will resume tomorrow weather permitting because the weather in Philadelphia tomorrow is dicey. Which means they might not resume tonight's game until Wednesday. Just think if Game 3 was rain out on Saturday. Major League Baseball would have been in a awful position with how they will schedule the games base on the weather.

Richie! Are you going to join Jim Clark in the Himalayas? LOL.

Richie, what can I tell you? Each and every team has players who occasionally screw up. Of course Baldelli should've run there. BUT, I would like to stress in our ever-ongoing debate, you can't say that the Rays' lack of hustle cost them this game - because they could still win this game! :)

Popppy, the forecast was nowhere near as bad as the weather turned out. Rip them for keeping the game going, but you really can't rip them for starting it in the first place.

Ken you are right, I dont know how much these players care. All I can tell on how much they care is the effort they put out. And with

Upton/Bodelli/Pena...I dont see a team that really plays to win or wants to win. You can pump your fist all you want, I'd rather have someone that runs. It was truly pathetic and I think you would have to agree with that. If they lose this game, Bodelli's blunder may have cost them the game. Who knows how that inning plays out? You do know it wouldn't have ended in that double play though.

And I dont think its a few players in the league that would have done what Pena/Upton/Baldelli did. I think its a VERY high %.

Matt Holliday did the same thing Pena did last year in extra innings on Game 163. He made it to third but he stared an awfully long time before deciding to run. Timo Perez etc. Starting pitching is more important than hustle. As are a lot of things. But I pray the Phils win this game by a run. Then we can look back and laugh.

I dont think you disagree with much of what I said here.

Oh btw, I'm back!

Based on the latest weather forecast, resuming the game tonight appears dicey, as cold rain is expected for Philadelphia.