The Mets' sunk costs

Just like last year, the Mets' offseason viewpoints and goals have to be heavily influenced by their last game of the season.
If they had made the playoffs, if their pitchers had shut down the Cubs' lineup as the Dodgers did _ not an impossibility, for sure _ then maybe the Mets could get by with these two strategies in 2009:
1) "Closers are made, not born. We'll bring a bunch of interesting arms into camp and figure out who our closer is."
2) "Luis Castillo is a good player who was coming off surgery and didn't report to camp in good shape. We'll get on him this winter and make sure he shows up slimmer, and you'll see why we got him."
But neither of those is feasible now, right? Does any baseball team have an angrier fan base than the Mets? Has any club faced as much animosity as it opens up a highly desired new ballpark?
The Mets, like all teams, have a budget; their payroll was about $140 million this season, highest by far in the National League. That will go up naturally, due to raises coming for John Maine, Jose Reyes and David Wright. Wiith Pedro Martinez ($11 million) and Oliver Perez ($6.5 million) coming off the books, the Mets will probably save some money on their starting rotation; they're likely to acquire one big-name starter out of the group of Perez. A.J. Burnett, Jon Garland and Derek Lowe and then go with Jonathon Niese and perhaps some low-cost veterans.
So that looks all right. Where they're going to have suck it up is bullpen and second base.
Billy Wagner's $10.5 million is gone, without insurance due to Wagner's pre-existing left elbow problems. The Mets insist they're at peace with this, that they have money stored away (a common plot device in movies like this) for such worst-case scenarios. Surely, when they signed Wagner back in the 2005-06 offseason, they had to know they might not get four years of the diminutive lefty.
And that's where they are again. IMHO, they should pay the price for K-Rod. JE and baileywalk have made good points here, about the folly of spending so much on a closer and about the ballooning K-Rod himself. I say that he's still an elite closer, that such closers are rare and worth a certain premium and that the switch over to the National League would buy him some time; shoot, he struck out 77 batters in 68 1/3 innings in the AL this year.
If the Mets, after seeing their horrendous bullpen sink their 2008 season, have to essentially pay $25 million for a closer in 2009, combining Rodriguez's and Wagner's salaries...it's better than paying $12 million for a closer and experiencing a third straight collapse, isn't it?
The same goes for second base. They're just going to have to pay for two. Castillo has $18 million coming to him over the next three years. Will any team take on so much as half of that in a trade? Hard to see, after Castillo's absolutely brutal 2008. And yet, the Mets can't take him back. They just can't. Not after Jerry Manuel benched Castillo for Damion Easley, Argenis Reyes and Ramon Martinez. I think if the season had lasted another week, Jerry was going to call Willie Randolph and ask him if he could still turn the double play.
So the Mets are going to pay a very high percentage of that $18 million in order to ship out Castillo, and see if they can at least get a second-tier prospect in return.
Ideally, this "Dan Murphy playing second base in the Arizona Fall League" experiment would work, and with Murphy making the near-minimum for the next three years, the Mets wouldn't feel like they were paying for two second basemen. But that's overly optimistic, isn't it? Murphy looks like a promising hitter who will forever be in search of a defensive position.
Meanwhile, free agent Orlando Hudson would bring not only a solid, all-around game, but a bright personality that could help the Mets. Hudson once said, jokingly (bottom of this story), that Blue Jays GM J.P. Ricciardi dressed "like a pimp." At least, I think he was joking. The Mets could use a guy with that kind of sense of humor, not to mention that kind of bat and that kind of glove.
If two collapses mean two eight-figured closers and two second basemen on the books, then so be it. K-Rod and Hudson would both be good baseball moves, and most of all, the Mets need an improved baseball team.


Comments (31)
Ken, how shocked would you be if the Mets brought in Farnsworth one of their free agents signings? Does Girardi/Cashman want him back, albeit at a much lower salary?
Very shocked, JMH. The Mets follow what goes on with the Yankees. They saw how Farnsworth seemed to be spooked by New York until Girardi became his personal Horse Whisperer. And I think Girardi and Cashman will probably quit while they're ahead on Farnsworth. The bullpen is the one area to which the Yankees won't add this offseason.
From your lips to God's ears. My sentiments exactly. Just hoping there isn't a winter surprise. Can the Mets afford to sign more than free agent. Current players will be making more next year; if they retain Perez it will be for many more dollars and Pedro has to be replaced. Delgado will cost them the full $12 million in '09. K-Rod or Manny would push them into luxury tax country. Bud will like the money, but won't like the Mets spending above the line.
Ken-Don't the Mets get some kind of break from revenue sharing payments relative to the debt service on Citi Field?
I worry a lot about K-Rod. I like Fuentes a lot, but I'm not sure how the Mets view him. It seems like for the Mets, it's an either/or question between these two guys. I assume they plan to look at JJ Putz as well via trade. It'll be interesting to see what Omar can get for his pile at the fire sale. Heilman could've garnered so such last year, and now him plus a prospect will be lucky to fill a role. I like Juan Cruz on the FA market. Lots of names of the FA list, but not a lot of recent production. Parnell and Stokes look like they'll be expected to shoulder a good load next year.
I love Hudson, and if they are going to spend on the everyday 8, I'd rather it be on him and we piece together left field. Though if Murphy can handle second (ya never know!) that might change my mind.
Those Philly teams took awhile to get over the hump, with a long standing core. They finally got one though in 80. Good for Tug.
Unfortunately, Ken, we have to differentiate between what the Amazins SHOULD do versus what they WILL do. The mob mentality might appear to rule New York but, once upon a time it had control of Boston too, until the Nomar trade helped bring home a World Series ring. With a new contract under his belt, Omar should show some fortitude and do what has to be done to win, not take home a trophy for Miss Congeniality.
An upgrade of the offense (Dunn, Ibanez, Manny) is a better investment of resources than a closer. Moreover, going after a closer doesn't have to be K-Rod or nothing. (By the way, K-Rod again looked less than impressive in his one inning of work last night.) Why not check on the salary/length demands of potential Wood and Fuentes contracts, and investigate Ohman and Brocail as set-up guys?
Regarding the O-Dog, I fear a bidding war for Hudson's services. Why not offer David Eckstein a one-year contract instead as insurance for Murphy and Easley? As a shortstop in recent years, he was clearly over his head, but he would be more solid at second base and be one of the better eighth-place hitters in the league, thereby allowing Reyes more RBI opportunities.
Alfonso Soriano is lucky that he is not on the Yanks right now. Soriano's numbers in the postseason are just as bad as A-Rod. Soriano would have gotten boo just as badly as A-Rod if he was still with the Yanks.
Speaking of the Yanks, you think Hank is thrill that the Dodgers under Joe Torre are in the NLCS? Hell no. I'm sure Yankees fans like Jim who wanted Torre outta here after last season are sick to their stomach right now seeing Torre in the NLCS while the Yanks didn't make the playoffs.
K-Rod is being exposed in the playoffs. He's putting a lot of effort in the batters he has face and as a result he has thrown a lot of pitches. I'm sure teams that are interested in K-Rod like the Mets are watching him very closely.
whynot, you are correct, the Mets get a revenue-sharing break. But they are doling out money for their new ballpark.
JE, man oh man, you and I agree on virtually nothing for the Mets. LOL. I think Hudson is precisely the high-impact acquisition they need.
Dennis, I'm not sure that Hank Steinbrenner even knows that the regular season has ended yet.
Ken
I agree with you regarding K-Rod and Hudson. I understand the inherent risks in bringing in K-Rod, but considering the alternatives it's probably a risk worth taking.
And I don't know that winter ball is a big enough sample to know if Murphy can play second (especially since many of said he can't play first or third either).
Plus, if he does play second, money still has to be spent on leftfield.
I think they should let Perez and Pedro go and pursue Lowe (as either a starter or a closer).
But if they're giving the 5th spot to Niese, they still have to sign someone else as an insurance policy just in case he experiences a Pelfrey-like learning curve.
The bullpen is a crapshoot, but it would be nice to have a few power arms in there (preferably ones with better traffic records than Sanchez and Burgos).
For the next 2 seasons at least with the new ballpark and demand to go into it for a game, the Mets should sell out every, single home game (even if there are 20,000 empty seats like this season) and money for salaries should be no object considering all the extra revenue they will get from higher seat costs, concessions, maybe parking if the lot is done before the season is over. Plus, as usual, they are competing with the Yankees who spend money like water, and will again this off-season for all the same reasons.
I think baseball needs to do something to speed up all the garbage we get in Red Sox playoff games that drag them into the 4 1/2 hour territory for nearly every game, every season. There was absolutely no reason they couldn't have finished 12 innings by 11:30 and they didn't even get in 9 by then.
Whoops. Forgot my alias.
As far as set-up guys, I wouldn't mind seeing the Mets trade for Neal Cotts of the Cubs. In the FA market, I'd also go after both Garland (starter) and Lowe (closer). Hudson would be a good acquisition, but I'd rather see Murphy at second. Also, how about signing Casey Blake as our Mark DeRosa? He can play first, third and the outfield corners.
Sandy, TV dictates when these postseason games are play at what time. Its not just in Baseball, its in all sports. The TV networks pay all this money to these sports. The Red Sox playing long games is no surprise. The same holds true with the Yanks when they play long games. Part of it has to to with the Yanks and Red Sox being patient and taking pitches resulting in higher pitch counts for the starting pitchers and longer games lasting more than 3 hours. Teams like the Yanks, Red Sox and Cubs are teams that will get a lot of primetime games at night in the postseason on TV.
Ken, I am not sure if everyone understands that while the new ballparks defray revenue sharing payments, they don't impact the luxury tax due on "excessive" payroll. Depending on what the Mets do this winter, they could be close to if not over the threhold for 2009.
I think Eckstein would be a good fit for the Mets. He has won two World Series, has an MVP in one of them, and is the anti-Castillo with the way he plays the game.
I am glad that you've come to the dark side on Castillo Ken. He cant come back.
The Monday night Mets vs. Cubs game on 9/22 I attended with my 8-year-old nephew. Heillman gave up a run. All the fans went to boo him and my nephew reaches back and is about to lay it on him. I put my hand on his back and said, "Don't boo him. You never boo a player who gives their all." I later booed Castillo.
JE it was pretty telling that K-Rod didn't go two innings last night. Very very telling. But the Mets are up you know what creek without a paddle, which is why I begrudgingly say you still have to sign him. Especially bc of the crazy ticket prices. You have to give the fans new people for next year since they are overcharging them this year.
A guy the Mets should consider for Leftfield is Pat Burrell. Burrell is a righthanded bat who will bring balance to the lineup and has killed the Mets for his entire career. Burrell is a free agent at the end of this season. And by signing Burrell, it will hurt the Phillies in a big way.
I think what K-Rod does in this post-season -- and he has been putrid -- is pretty much meaningless. The Mets aren't going to use this post-season to determine if they'll sign a guy for four years. He has a body of work, and he has been an elite closer for years. I think it is a huge concern that his stuff has diminished as it has, but with K-Rod the Mets do at least get some assurance that they can close out a game in the ninth (this year it was a question mark literally every time out). It's not ideal for the Mets, but when is anything ideal?
K-Rod has this weird new "changeup" they kept talking about. The catcher clearly calls for a changeup, but it's hard -- only four or so miles an hour off his fastball. It's like the anti-changeup. Maybe he holds it like a changeup but it acts as a two-seamer (it pretty much dives straight down). K-Rod was going to it over and over again last night, almost abandoning his slider, which has always been his best pitch.
It looks like Beckett is still hurt (or something). He was topping at 93 on a juiced gun and the hitters were all over his fastball.
It would be nice if the Mets could just pay Castillo's salary and call it a mistake. But it doesn't always happen. The Angels are a good example: they signed Gary Matthews Jr. to a bizarre deal (five years, ten-per if I remember right) and then to make things even worse signed another free-agent centerfielder the very next year and turned the worthless Matthews into a ten-million-dollar bench player.
Dennis the Phillies don't even want to bring Burrell back. The only team he hurts is the Mets (besides the Phillies). Still I'd take him over Dunn if I had a gun to my head.
I understand what TV wants and the patience at the plate, but I'm getting real sick of Big papi stepping out of the box spitting and clapping his batting gloves together and getting back in 7 or 8 times an at bat. It also took papelbon about 4 minutes to do his warm-ups before he pitched his inning. Its just the little time wasting things. How many innings do they have to play sing-a-along to "Sweet Caroline" also. That takes time, if they are still singing after the long commercial break like last night, it's too long.
Did everyone see the Selig interviews yesterday where he told us how happy he was for the Brewer success?
Dennis, the Phils can and will replace Burrell. He's a dime a dozen.
Sandy, you may be annoyed at Big Papi's spitting, and you may want to spit on Pavano's face...but I got someone better.
That STUPID FRANK guy!! Every freaking commerical is him and then it says Very Funny. Does freaking TBS have one show?!@?!?!@?#%?#$!? Jesus...I seriously race to change the channel whenever the inning ends. At least when Fox self promotes it has more than one freaking show/charchter. Ken thinks his big perks are traveling from City to City but really the best reason to be a sportswriter is to be at the games so you miss those damn commercials.
OK, trying to calm myself....
Good point on the luxury tax threshhold, JMH; it's gonna be close, but I predict they fall short of it. The threshhold for '09 is $162 million. The Mets began 2008 at $137.8 million. If you subtract Pedro ($13 million) and Perez ($6.5 million), that gets you down to $118.3 million. Now let's say they add K-Rod ($15 million), Hudson ($8 million) and Jon Garland ($12 million). Now you're back up to $153 million. Do they add a high-impact OF bat. I predict they don't, go with Tatis/Church/Murphy and look to Hudson as their high-impact bat/glove.
I am very fond of David Eckstein, both personally and professionally, but he was almost as bad as Castillo this year. Hudson is SO much better than Eckstein, and the Mets can afford to pay that difference.
Richie, as much as I hate the Frank TV commericals, I love the Holiday Inn commercial with Cal Ripken, Jr. where the people ask if they can have nicknames like "Mrs. Ripken Jr." and "SNAKE EYES!!!"
Fernando Martinez, Aaron Heilman, and Ramon Castro to the Padres for Adrian Gonzalez
Carlos Delgado and Scott Schoenweis to the Blue Jays for B.J. Ryan
Luis Castillo to the Diamondbacks for Eric Byrnes
Re-sign Oliver Perez
Sign Francisco Rodriguez and Orlando Cabrera
The Padres have stated that they want to cut payroll, add a bullpen arm and a back-up catcher. Adrian Gonzalez hit over .300 away from pitcher-friendly Petco and would give the Mets a clean-up hitter while providing Gold Glove-level defense.
The Jays are eager to dump Ryan's $20M over the next two seasons. Delgado gives them a huge offensive upgrade over current 1B Lyle Overbay.
Castillo for Byrnes is a swap of bad contracts, but the Mets could use Byrnes' fire and righty bat in the outfield.
Oliver Perez is too young and has shown too much in big spots to let him walk.
K-Rod might have lost a few miles per hour off his fastball, but he's out there and the Mets need a closer badly. Cabrera is a proven winner and would help out down in the order.
Richie I think the Frank show is TBS's only original show the rest of theirs go to TNT and TBS doesn't get high ratings for much of anything besides sports.
I don't think Hudson will come as cheap as 8M. But I do agree I'd rather have him at 2nd, then to sign an impact LF bat. That's with the caveat that Murphy has zero business at 2B. Adding Hudson and getting a full season from Church and a Murphy/platoon partner should make the offense as good or better than this year.
Rosenthal wrote today that Fuentes will be looking for 3/38 or so. I think that's a better route than going K-Rod. And if another solid bullpen arm like Putz or BJ Ryan ( I haven't heard he's available) can be had in a trade, I think an effort must be made to secure them. I don't know what the league thinks of Heilman, but he and a solid prospect might be enough to get either of those guys.
I loved Kubek during his time doing national games. I didn't realize he had such a dramatic falling out with the game. I'd imagine that would keep him from getting serious consideration at this point.
Ken, you provided good information on the Mets salary situation for next year. They are also losing Alou and his $7.5 million and O. Hernandez and his $6 million. I didn't realize the threshold was going all the way up to $162 million. Wright and Reyes will make a combined $3.75 million more. Yup, they seem assured to be under the cap.
I wouldn't sign any closer for more than three years. Period. If a team does, they should do so with eyes wide open that the odds on the player finishing the contract on the mound without extensive DL time/ineffectiveness are slim to none.
could the mets some how use r.church as trade bait for a young closer such as the royal's closer or even jj putz sign manny put him in left and let the platoon of d.rez (daniel murphy) and nick evens play right also signing orlando hudson is a must would sure up our defense. in regards to our starting pitching i'm greedy and this team owe us a lot. something like sabathia. if we have to pay why shouldn't they pay a lil luxury tax in the end we will be paying anyway
bring me manny ramiez. (all year they were missing that precious pressure hit, i remember piazza did that during sept 11 game. manny is that kind of player.) HES CLUTCH~ if the mets had him, with the bullpen we had, we would have made the playoffs. hands down.
I dont know why the Mets would even consider K-rod. IMO I would really look into other closers at this point. Sure his record breaking year was impressive, but he seems to make almost every appearance he makes interesting. Myself being a Mets fan, I have had enough of the close calls in later innings, all mets fans know this scenario all to well. It might be different if he wasn't asking for 15+ mil a year, but he's not worth that. Forget K-rod, go after Wood or Fuentes, hell why not even sign Randy Johnson and convert him into a closer (he's 45 and wont get anything more than a 2 year deal tops). They are both dominant closers and can be had for about half the cost of K-rod. I believe that if we are willing to spend 15mil a year for a pitcher, just drop the 20mil a year for Sabathia. How pretty would Johan/CC look at the top of the mets rotation (drooling heavily at the thought)? As nice as Manny's bat would look in that lineup I am pretty hesitant on putting a head case in the clubhouse...especially at his cost. They should look at Ibanez, Garret Anderson, and possibly Vlad to fill the left field hole. Id say put Murphy at second if he can be at least an avg. glove, cuz anyone that watches Mets games knows his stick is legitimate. As for middle relief...im stumped. I have no idea how the Mets can fix such a HUGE PROBLEM! The only ones i would keep would be Stokes, Knight, Smith, Feliciano, and maybe Ayala...big maybe. Other than that, maybe try some of the young bucks from the farm. Im sure they cant be any worse than the crap we threw at opposing teams in innings 6-8. Regardless what happens, the Mets need a big name to join this club. They are only about 9 outs away from being a World Series contender, just gotta find some arms for those late innings. 30 blown saves kinda puts a damper on playoff expectations...just imagine, if we blew only half those games the mets would have won the division by 10 games. Shows how important those no-name relievers are...
When can we forget about the closer role as being all-important? It is well overrated. How about you sign a couple good relievers for a lot less than the cost of K-Rod? Dan Wheeler, Rafael Soriano, Jeremy Affeldt, to name a couple. If we have nowhere to put Dan Murphy maybe he should be packaged and shipped off for a reliever. How about we try converting some older starters to the pen? Smoltz? Randy Johnson? Bartolo? That would give the pen some leadership it clearly lacks. It is clear that we had problems just getting to the 9th inning with the lead so how about we fix that first.
Why not sign smoltz for a year to be the closer? He dominated while he was a closer. Yes he has elbow problems. But what closer doesnt. K-Rod wants a long term deal. Do not get yourself in a position signing an overthrowing kid to a long term expensive contract. Power pitching closers get injured too easily. Yes smoltz is a power pitcher but he would be more willing to settle for a one year deal. What is wrong with Fuentes? Do not trade for a closer... dont give up any more young talent. Ibanez is a nice fit for left please dont sign Pat Burrell... nobody likes him not even phils fans they are glad to get rid of him. Put murphy at 2nd with castillo off the bench for defensive situations. Yes who doesnt want C.C. but Derek Lowe would be a nice fit. He is getting older but a 3 year deal would not be that bad. Burnett is the third candidate of course with C.C. as number one. The bullpen needs help...major help... keep stokes, feliciano, smith, sanchez, add darren oliver the mets lacked that long reliever. If you need to trade for anyone include heilman and possibly church but then you need to worry about RF. If you get C.C. dont over use him because you are going to be signing him for at least 5 years. The mets need a starter that will go 200+ innings.
They need Manny Ramirez in the lineup! End of story! Starters will be fine next year and the bullpen will get better with signings of players that we would least expect like Doug Brocail and he will be good. The closer situation is huge but not as huge as getting Manny in the lineup. If you had Manny, Then you would not have to use the closer. With Manny in the lineup, this team will become amazing. Look where the Dodgers got with him. I think with him, wright, reyes, delgado, beltran, and church all on one team would make the the best lineup in the league and they will score a whole lot of runs. Manny is the main key, Manny. Not the bullpen or second base, Manny Ramirez!!
I'd rather we trade for Soria than overspend on K-Rod. The Royals Gm recently made a statement claiming he wants his team to win now, maybe they'd be silly enough to take Castillo away from us. Still, the positives that K-Rod brings by far outweigh the negatives.
I'm a little unsettled by some recent rumors regarding Ryan Chruch. You have to feel for the guy with the concussion and all. I think given the chance, he can really prosper and live up to his potential in NY. We need to remember that before the concussion, he was the most productive player on the Mets. So, please, do not trade him please Omar.
Mr. Minaya's strategy should be the trading of Luis Castillo for Huston Street or Eric Byrnes, and the trading of Heilman/Schoweneweis for a few mid level prospects. Free agent signings should be Orlando Hudson, K-Rod, Darren Oliver, and of course, bring back Fernando Tatis. I see Murphy in left field, and Evans the future first baseman platooning with Delgado if he needs a rest.