World Series: The Mets' showmanship
As discussed here before, I always work myself into a frenzy in the rare instances that I listen to sports radio. Today was no exception.
As I drove down the New Jersey Turnpike, I listened to Dennis' pal Francesa, and he took a caller who referenced the third item in this story by Jon Heyman, which in turn credits this story by Bill Madden.
The caller then declared that the Mets had "no fight," and that they needed to change their clubhouse culture.
"They're great dancers," the caller said of the Mets' players, clearly a veiled reference to Jose Reyes.
I want to start asking these Mets fans, who hate their own team, what they thought of the 1986 Mets. They had to be one of the more hated teams in recent times, didn't they? The difference, of course, is they got it done when they had to. I thought the '08 Mets displayed plenty of character until the bitter end. They just couldn't overcome their horrid bullpen.
Did those '86 Mets have a toughess that the '07-'08 Mets lacked? Absolutely. But they also had better talent. They had two second basemen who contributed, as opposed to zero. An incredible bench. Two guys who could close.
I don't know, maybe this is the fatigue talking. But I think the Mets are smart to target relief help this winter. If they just protect more of the leads they get, they can play with all of the swagger in the world.
Thanks to this site for the Lenny Dykstra photo.
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Comments (21)
No offense intended, Ken, because you and Posnanski are first-rate journalists/analysts, but I am incapable of reading most baseball print columnists. (Francesca is nothing more than "the biggest load on two feet.")
I would still pass on spending wads of cash on relief help in lieu of CC or Lowe and either Dunn or Ibanez, but you knew that already, right? ;-)
dont listen to anything mike francessca says...and also who cares if other teams hate us...good. its all about winning so they can hate us even more if we win....lets the boys dance, theyre having fun playing a game
Clubhouse cultures have changed in part due to the advent of cellphones which didn't exist in 1986. A Mets reporter mentioned this in an interview some months ago. Players today, as soon as the game is over, are on their cell phones. That of course means they're not available for clubhouse repartee.
Yes the '86 Mets were arrogant and irritating (thx. Jeff Pearlman).
However, they backed it up with 108 wins and a world series victory. Four starters threw at least 200 innings, a solid bullpen, led the league in runs per game and ERA, and they CRUSHED teams with records under .500 (going 78-30 - only 30-24 vs. winning teams). They went 17-1 vs. the Pirates.
This is something that recent Mets teams have lacked - they don't get ahead of weak teams and keep on the pressure - keep scoring, keep hustling and spend 9 innings proving that you're better.
JE - good luck in Illinois - I'm doing poll watching in Queens and my wfie is off to ballot sceurity in Philadelphia. If the rain didn't stop I'll tell her to call ken and get a ticket for Game 5 plus.
This Mets team lack the killer instincts, toughness and the guts that the Phillies have. The last 2 years the Mets on the last day of the season had a chance to at least force a 1 game playoff with a win, and they came up short both time. The Mets also seems to play terrible against teams under .500, when they should be beating up on them. Also when the Cardinals beat the Mets in Game 7 in '06, the Cardinals players did the "Jose" chant in the locker room after the game.
JE, good luck on the campaign, and what is Mark Kirk's relationship with Obama. Does Kirk get along with Obama?
Considering the 1986 Mets were also the 1985, 1987 and 1988 Mets and only did it once (a very lucky hop let them have that chance, as well) barely, still they were hated because they acted like a-holes. These Mets act not as bad as those Mets did, but these Mets have never done anything. And probably never will. You better have at least someone on the team that knows how to win, and these Mets currently don't.
E-wamura and G - "rant" Balfour.
Ken I somewhat agree with you. But the difference between the two clubs is more than what you say. The 86 Mets played to avenge the 85 Mets. They made sure they swept St. Louis and won the division in April after a 4 game sweep. The 86 Mets embraced the fact that they were hated. This team was mentally tough. But at the very end, they choked. Batters included.
Sandy, what do you mean a lucky hop?? If you're talking about Buckner, I didn't see a hop. But three things.
1) What was the score when that lucky hop happened? What would have happened had Buckner fielded the ball and beat Mookie to the bag?
2) How did the Red Sox win Game 1?
3) Isn't fielding part of baseball?
Balfour gives up a lead-off double to Jenkins the pinch-hitter. After Rollins bunts the runner over to 3rd, Werth hits a pop fly single with the infield in to give the Phillies a 3-2 lead. Even thought the infield was in for the Rays, Iwanmura almost caught the ball and the ball came off his glove.
They probably ruled that a hit. I wonder if he makes that catch, does the runner try to score from 3rd? Probably not but it would be a close play considering he would have caught the ball Willie Mays style.
You know...I'd rule that a hit too. Sorry Yost.
Hey Ken.
Why is the Mets' pr guru Jay Horowitz on the Philly infield after the 3rd out?
Pat Burrell - dogged it, dogged it, dogged it. "Doesn't run well" my ####!!! He DIDN'T run when a man on third with one out increases significantly the chances to score THE POSSIBLE WINNING RUN OF THE WORLD SERIES.
Considering some of the actions of players on both teams, can I root for a tie like that ill-fated All-Star Game.
Thanks Tim McCarver, for telling the truth!!!
Pat Burrell...join the club!! Way to coast to first and turn a sure fire triple into a double. Thank you for allowing me to root for the Rays now. I hope he doesn't score.
Does anybody want to win?!?!?!?!?
MY FREAKING GOD!!! ITS GAME 5 OF THE WORLD SERIES PEOPLE!!!!!!!!
http://www.latimes.com/sports/baseball/mlb/la-sp-seriesfyi29-2008oct29,0,59934.story
Fox overlords rule Selig....Bud Selig favors playing one contest in daytime, but Fox Sports president rejects the idea.
Commissioner Bud Selig calls himself a traditionalist. He would love to play one World Series game during the afternoon, he says, but television says no.
Fox Sports President Ed Goren makes no apologies. "We pay the money for the rights to televise baseball," Goren said. "Nobody is giving us a rebate to change that scenario."
"With sports broadcasts increasingly concentrated on cable television, (Fox executive Ed) Goren said fans should appreciate the World Series on Fox, whatever the hour.
"The viewers have a wonderful bargain," he said. "Turn on the TV -- for free -- watch some commercials and enjoy yourself."
I know they scored the run, but that doesn't mean his lack of hustle had no effect. Victorino wasted two strikes trying to bunt and no hitter is as good with two strikes as they are with one. So maybe he would have gotten a hit instead of just advancing the runner. Hey, you never know.
Also, why is the Rays pitcher allowed to bat if he's just pitching to Burrell? And why is Romero allowed to bat? Its pretty telling that Lidge cant go two innings.
RG, I agree with on Maddon leaving Howell in the game to pitch to Burrell. Leaving the lefty Howell to pitch to a righthand hitter Burrell made no sense. Maddon should have bought in Bradford or Price to start the bottom of the 7th. Manuel let Romero hit in the 7th because Manuel wants Romero to pitch the 8th with Crawford a lefty hitter leading off the 8th follow by Upton a righthand hitter and Pena a lefthand hitter. Lidge was warming up in the pen in the 8th.
Dennis, I wouldn't have let Howell bat if he's only going to face one batter. I'd rather have him finish the inning or put in Price. Honestly, I probably would have started Price tonight.
The Philadelphia Phillies are World Champions. Hamels is the World Series MVP. Lidge is perfect for the season in save chances. And Selig gets boo during the trophy presentation, what else is new. Congrats to the Phillies.
And how interesting is it that the last 3 years the final out of the World Series was recorded by a strikeout. Wainwright strikesout Inge to end the World Series in '06. Papelbon strikesout Seth Smith to end the World Series in '07. And tonight Lidge strikesout Hinske to end the World Series.
I'm a sunny optimist with these Mets, and in a way am glad to see the Phills win. These Mets should revel in being hated the way the 86 Mets were and take aim at the Phills the way the 86 team did with the Cards. Not to mention everybody else who allegedly hates them. But with today's baseball culture, I don't know if you can build a team with enough guys who will gel together and will play with a sense of hostility and animosity toward the opposition. It doesn't happen in today's game.
Of course a league average bullpen would also be good enough. And imagine what they could do with a good one.
Get to work Omar. I'm expecting big things.
Richie G
"Pat Burrell...join the club!! Way to coast to first and turn a sure fire triple into a double"
It's more popularly known as STRETCHING a triple into a double.
(I know this cuz I am the all-time leader of my local Men's Senior League in that category......after the age of 40 running hard becomes an option).
"Triples stretched into doubles" and "defensive indifference" are more than stats after 40, they are limb protecting rallying cries.
Mets record vs. the NL East this year:
Phillies: 11-7
Braves: 7-11
Marlins: 10-8
Nationals: 12-6
Total record vs. the NL East: 30-22, for a .577 Winning %
Total record vs. all other teams: 59-51, for a .536 Winning %
Yeah, it sure looks like the NL East hating the Mets REALLY killed the Mets in 2008.