Do Red Sox fans want the Yankees to sign CC Sabathia?
A buddy of mine - maybe "contemporary" is a better term, or well-wisher, in that he doesn't wish me any specific harm, to borrow from this "Simpsons" episode - e-mailed me last week with this sentiment:
"I'm amused by CC to NY. My gut says it will be a failure in the end, and A-Rod and CC will grow old and overpaid together. Bad body, poor playoff performances, not a NY kind of guy."
Would you believe that this person is a Red Sox fan?
It struck me, because this person isn't the only member of Red Sox Nation who seems to be licking his chops for CC Sabathia to give into the Yankees' relentless pursuit of him. ESPN.com's Bill Simmons, who makes his living by rooting for the Boston teams, listed the reasons why he loves sports in this column. Here was "Reason number 947":
"The thought of 365-pound CC Sabathia laboring through a 98° game at Yankee Stadium in 2012 with four more years and $105 million remaining on his contract Please, God. I don't ask for much."
Funny, isn't it? And quite rational, IMHO. I don't think you'll find many people who think that six years in Sabathia is a sound investment. Not given his workload, his body type and that everyone knows, all things being equal, he'd rather be out West.
Newsday teammate Anthony Rieber and I disagree about Brian Cashman's decision last year to pass on Johan Santana; I still think that history will eventually smile on Cashman for that call. But I agree with Anthony here, that the Yankees are trying to sell their fans some baloney by claiming that this rabid pursuit of big-money pitchers was the plan all along. If Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy had all delivered on their promise in '08, there wouldn't have been any room for Sabathia and A.J. Burnett or Derek Lowe, even with Mike Mussina very likely to retire this week.
So we'll keep monitoring. You'd think that Sabathia, who took the weekend off to chill out with friends and family, would want to hear from the California teams before committing to the Yankees.
Are there other Red Sox fans who feel the same way about the Yankees and Sabathia?
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Comments (23)
Sadly, I couldn't agree more with Simmons. And what's even sadder is how they seem to have given up on Hughes after what was, let's face it, just a rough start for a 22-year-old pitcher.
BTW, yes, awesome Entourage, but how do they all go to Queens? Doesn't Drama still have a show of his own?
As a Yankee fan, if that's what Sox fans want, my reaction is to quote (however reluctantly) W: "Bring it on."
Of course, the pursuit of CC is a consequence of the inability of Hughes and Kennedy to contribute in '08 (I'm not sure why you would lump Joba in that group), but as Hal said during the Santana deliberations, the major reason why obtaining Santana was prohibitive is that they would have had to give up both big bucks AND major player personnel assets, which made it cost-ineffective. With CC, OTOH, the cost is merely monetary (although, granted they would lose their first round pick). So, if fairness matters, you should acknowledge that the "baloney" that the Yankees are selling has been pre-packaged with a major disclaimer.
Now, maybe in a perfect baseball world, Cashman would prefer not to trade for CC or Santana under any circumstances, but given the Yankees business model, appropriating big bucks for CC makes both financial and baseball sense.
Also, until proven otherwise, how does anyone really know that CC prefers to play on the West Coast? Perhaps his people have circulated that meme as a negotiating ploy, which, last I checked is the American way.
Consequently, Sox fans should be careful what they wish for, and certain members of the media should be a little less cynical.
Agreed regarding Entourage, Ken, although it certainly begs the observation: less Drama equals more awesome!
Cerrone's got two Rs in his name, by the way. His site is usually good on info, but short on cogent analysis.
Thankfully for Red Sox Nation, Ken, Theo doesn't obsess over prospective Yankee moves. (That's the Steinbrenner way.)
By the way, check out this fascinating story:
http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/11113207/rss
I wonder what sight would be more amazing to witness: a female MLB player, a side-arm knuckleballer, or a Dustin Pedroia teammate that he towers over! ;-)
I agree about the "rabid" part of their persuit, but wouldn't they be going after Sabathia even if Phil, Ian and Joba had been lights out? They'd be four pitchers deep with Wang, and I can't imagine the Yankees wouldn't want to add a top-of-the-rotation lefty to their rotation. At his best Ian Kennedy is a four or five starter. Even if they planned to bring Pettitte back, would they have let Ian Kennedy stand in the way of bringing Sabathia here? I agree that their embarrassing desperation wouldn't be the same, though.
There still doesn't seem to be a definitive stance on Sabathia's body. A lot of people suggest his big lower half (and yeah, that term makes me giggle too) is actually a benefit, since a pitcher's strength comes from his legs. I believe one comparison was Boomer Wells.
Yankees fans and Red Sox fans are obsess with every move each team makes. Even thought Cashman and Theo happen to be "friends", they compete against each other for players.
The NL MVP is announced today. I believe in one of his columns last mouth, Ken said he was picking Albert Pujols for NL MVP over Ryan Howard.
Bwalk - from yesterday re: Fuentes.
There is a tendency to throw across one's body when you throw sidearm.
The front foot is planted not in a straight line to the plate, but slightly to the left for a lefty and to the right for a righty. Once the plant leg hits the ground, the arm is slightly behind your body and has to catch up to your motion. This extra use of the arm muscles will fatigue the arm or damage it in the long run.
The Yanks are always changing their story - new player development, high-priced old players, anything goes. Great vision, guys.
I bet CC has been hearing how overweight and out of shape he is since he was 15, if not younger Yet all he's ever done is produce. He's a much better athlete than people give him credit for, with almost no injury history.
It's funny, with Hughes, Kennedy, Joba, and all other pitching prospects it's all about projection and what they just might be able to accomplish in the future to which organizations set their watch. Yet here is a guy in CC who's shown everybody exactly what he is, but doubters still don't believe. All huge pitching contracts are a gamble, but CC is well worth the risk. I don't think Sox fans would be laughing very long.
Bill Simmons is part of what is wrong with ESPN's core business and makes the "leader" impossible to watch. Besides appealing to the lowest common denominator on its NFL programming, it is all Boston, all New York 24/7 - except when the World Series of Poker is on. (I loved the comment in Mushnick's column today from a reader that pretty soon there will be an ESPN Little League World Series of Poker!).
Sabathia appears to be a standup guy, but I would love to know from the Indians (or a Cleveland reporter) what CC's conditioning work entailed and if there were ever conversations about his weight and exercise habits ot lack thereof. Clubs usuallt tailor workouts specifically to each player - what was his program?
So much for the Cuban/Cubs...insider trading charges
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-10098452-93.html
Listening to WEEI the past half hour and the usual b.s. came up. How the red Sox can't ever compete with the Yankees because they are TOO wealthy. So, as usual, Boston wants everyone to think they are a sympathetic underdog. This from a city whose baseball team has the second highest payroll in baseball history. Yeah, they are really sympathetic. I hope CC signs with the Yankees even if they overpay so at least they will have a reliable ace that can effectively compete with Beckett, Dice-K or whoever else the Red Sox decide to buy. And the Red Sox can charge $500 per seat and justify it by saying we need the revenue to compete with the Yankees.
JE--every move the Red Sox (and the Mets) make is all about the Yankees.
I hope Cuban goes to jail and I would love to see one of the managers of any hedge fund wind up in jail as well for manipulating banks, commodities markets and the stock market to the detriment of every one in the world who is worth less than $500 million.
Ken one of the bet Entourages ever. (Spoiler alert for those who haven't watched yet....)
I would have stayed with Jamie Lynn in Cali. And so would have any other human in the world. That part was as realistic as 24!! But I love 24 so I'm ok with that.
As for baseball...I think the Yankees will always go after Best. I dont mean every single time, but I mean no matter how stacked they are, they will always monitor and consider bidding on the elite free agents. And I dont think Cashman viewed CC as elite last year. But he does now. So I think when you view Cashman as changing his plan, I think you probably have to consider how CC changed his value. 10 Complete games, clutch performance after clutch performance, and pitching his team into the playoffs?? This guy is a stud. I think had the Yanks won the World Series last year, they'd still try to find a way to include him. Though they wouldn't be as desperate as they are now.
Would Cuban really be THAT stupid? Besides, isn't $750,000 a drop in the bucket for a guy like him?
BWalk - most people who are at that high a level in their profession are prone to do it (see Martha Stewart). It's not the size of the loss itself, but the idea that they can avoid a loss and be bullet-proof to any potential problem big or small. They are so ultracompetitive that they lose perspective (athletes and steroids, politicians during an election) and focus on the bottom line, not the means to get there (Wall Street firms who all got in on the mortgage market manipulation).
Dont want him in Boston
http://arsensox.blogspot.com/2008/11/red-sox-argument-against-cc-sabathia.html
This is why.
Sandy, I will acknowledge that others in the Red Sox organization might be obsessed with the Yankees, but Theo is more focused on how to improve the Red Sox. You don't see him trying to pry away over-the-hill Yankees. You don't see him be afraid to trade Manny Ramirez, even if it means that the guy might DH in the Bronx in '09.
Bob, it is interesting that you finger Bill Simmons as indicative of what's wrong with the WWL. Although I don't read many of his Page 2 submissions, I find it refreshing that at least one guy who collects a paycheck from ESPN doesn't act like a Disney puppet.
Speaking of which, I enjoyed this Q&A from a recent Simmons column:
Q: I was in the Verizon Center in D.C. the other night when I looked up to the rafters to see banners claiming the Washington Mystics led the WNBA in attendance, not once, not twice, but THREE times (1998, 1999 and 2002). Has it really been that long for a championship in the D.C. area that they are clinging to WNBA attendance titles? Shouldn't there be a rule stating a city must be in a championship drought for a set number of years before hanging up meaningless banners? We need your expertise on this one.
-- Steve, Needham Heights, Mass.
SG: I don't consider those three WNBA attendance titles valid because half of those crowds were made up of Pittsburgh Steelers fans. But I mentioned your e-mail to my buddy House (a D.C. fan and resident) and he shamefully passed this tidbit along: Apparently last month during a Capitals game, the Caps raised a banner to commemorate their 2007-08 Southeast Division title. If you came up with some sort of formula to determine the worst four-sport city in America that included things like "sweeping lack of success," "general apathy," "ability of opposing fans to overwhelm your home crowd," "lack of tradition," "most transplants living in the city and rooting for other teams" and everything else, wouldn't Washington and Atlanta end up battling it out for the title like Sebastian Coe and Steve Ovett in the '80s, like, they'd be so far ahead of the pack that it would be foolish to even mention the other contenders?
JE - I am tired of Red Sox, Celtics, Bruins and Patriots stories told by a middle aged white guy and his father, the low-brow sports version of "Frazier". Been there, did that.
Why not have a Page 2 for each and every sports city in the U.S. and let them post? "SportsNation" at ESPN starts at Bar Harbor and ends at the Hudson. The should be a USS Mariner equivalent site in every town on espn.com
505-great story from your road trip. Smart move...very smart with the cigs. And I had no clue where the Badlands were, but Wyoming seemed like they were at the time. It just felt thats what Springsteen was singing about.
JE, that is one of the funniest articles I've read. I cringed when the Mets put Wild Card winner up. Banners should be for World Championships, or WNBA attendence leaders...thats it!
Bob, I am totally in sync with your larger point about the Boston/New York bias at the WWL. You and I agree (or at least I think we do!) that we should see more Rob Neyer and, yes, USS Mariner's Dave Cameron (although, truthfully, I'm not sure he's even old enough to drink) and less Bob Ryan and Mike Lupica!
Get your backside to South Dakota, RG: the Badlands are amazing! The scenery puts Mt. Rushmore to shame.
TAL, you are basing your anti-CC views on a grand total of five postseason starts. Let's compare with his six September starts in 2008, a time when the Brewers were desperately trying to snare the wildcard berth (i.e., high-pressure situations). He pitched 42 2/3 innings, gave up only 10 earned runs, struck out 43, and walked only seven.
Choking in the postseason ought not to be so high up on your list of reasons why not to sign CC.
The fact that Cuban is in trouble with the SEC (not the Conference) will get Selig and baseball off the hook when it come to the sale for the Cubs. This will give Selig and baseball a excuse for not approving Cuban as the owner of the Cubs, if he is still in the bidding after this. Perhaps baseball knew something about this.
Ask Theo one day why he traded away so much for Gagne last year, JE. And he will probably tell you he was afraid the Yankees would get him. There isn't one person in the Red Sox front office from owner John Henry (ex-Yankee partial owner) on down who isn't obsessed with them. That is what they do. Every single move the Red Sox make is to make them better than the Yankees, ever since Babe Ruth got sold to the Yankees to pay off debt. Every single sports fan in New England is obsessed with New York and the second-rate status their city has in comparison to NY.
We should see less sportswriters making fools of themselves on ESPN, and more analytical commentary. It's not just Lupica nad Ryan, it's the whole cast of characters they have assembled up there. From Woody Paige and Screamin A. Smith to Wilbon and Kornheiser. Not one of the reporters they hired to commentary positions is there because of their writing ability, they are there because they have no problem looking like j-asses in front of cameras. Every single one of those guys have embarrassed their industry and made common fans think that all sportswriters are idiots and a-holes. It is different for the ones they actually hired to report, most of them do excellent jobs, something their people like Berman couldn't do if they were trained 20 years or more to do it.