Ken Davidoff's baseball insider

Ken, I think you are on to something here. I, too, feel very uncomfortable with how this is playing out. Love works both ways. I don't see that burning desire to play in NY from CC. It's an awful lot of money for someone that is apparently coming grudgingly. The Yankees could probably get two pitchers (for less years) for the price of CC and be better off in the long run.

I don't think CC had a burning desire to play in Milwaukee (has anyone?) , so you have to hope for the best if he plays in NYC.

But, CC got traded to the Brewers and he knew it was for one year and he was out of there. He was clearly on a salary drive, too. His stay in NY will be much longer and he doesn't seem up for it right now. Hopefully I am wrong should he come this way.

Yeah, it's overly dramatic. Come on. Has C.C. ever come out himself and said anything about not wanting to play in New York? He's from Cali and would like to play there (or close to it) but that's not the same as not wanting to play in New York. I mean, poor, poor C.C. -- making millions of dollars and living in such an AWFUL place as New York. How will he ever survive? But seriously... I don't know what sort of lifestyle Mr. Sabathia leads, but whatever it is he can find it in New York. I don't have to be a lifelong biased New Yorker to tell you that N.Y. is a great place to live.

And if his feelings are really that strong, he does have a choice. He can take less money from another team and go play for them.

I guess I just think it's a little unfair that the picture is already being painted of a guy taking the most money and going somewhere he doesn't want to go when we have no idea if that's the truth or not. C.C. is going to have to deal with this perception his entire stay in New York (if that happens) and we really don't even know if it's accurate.

Just to back up to the previous post: I think that trade is pretty meh for the Braves, since Vazquez is merely an okay pitcher at this point. They definitely needed starting pitching, though. Vazquez has decent change on his contract, so I wonder if this eliminates them from Burnett and Peavy. If it does, then it's an even worse deal. From the White Sox's point of view... none of those players are the Braves' top prospects, but they got a decent haul for a guy they probably didn't want anymore.

The perception about CC is there because he hasn't said nary a word. So he has no one to blame but himself. If it's not accurate, he should say so or his agent should.

Sabathia wants to pitch on the West Coast so badly. But the Giants still have Barry Zito's contract. The Dodgers and their owner Frank McCourt are cheap and are not willing to give out long-term contracts. And base on Angels GM Tony Reagins comments, the Angels are more concern with re-signing Teixeira. Sabathia has the Yanks offer and the Brewers offer on the table and that's it. And unless a West Coast team offer's Sabathia a contract, its looking more like the Sabathia will sign with the Yanks.
Vazquez has been a underachiever for his entire career. The only thing he has done consistently for his career is he eats up innings. The Braves weren't willing to give up the players for Peavy, yet they were willing to give up the players for Vazquez. They will find out what the Expos, Yanks, D'Backs and White Sox have found out about Vazquez and that is he is a underachiever.

You make a good point, Jack, and I agree with your original post (re: not going after Sabathia and loading up on multiple pitchers with that money). But I'm not sure Sabathia or his agent have an obligation to shoot down rumors. Something tells me that if someone flat-out asked his agent "Is it true that your client doesn't want to play in New York?" the answer would be a pat "No." (Of course this would be viewed as bull and people would go along believing C.C. hates New York.)

In all honesty, I would love to see the Yankees do some bargain hunting in this hurting economy. Adam Dunn and Ben Sheets are two people to watch. Dunn didn't get offered arbitration and Sheets did. Neither one is going to make what they expected to. Dunn in left field probably means Damon in center for most of the year, and that's a nightmare, but Dunn would be a beast in Yankee Stadium and he's much cheaper than Tex. River Ave. Blues made a much more compelling case for Dunn than I ever could. But anyway... if they were able to pick up Burnett, Sheets and Dunn they would be in good shape, and they wouldn't have to give 120 or 140 million to Tex and Sabathia.

baileywalk: I meant that if the rumors are bothering the Sabathia camp, they should speak out and correct any misimpressions. Obviously, they are under no obligation to do so. Bringing in Dunn is an interesting option. If that is the route they go, I would favor moving Damon (along with $3 million to offset his salary) in return for three young players (to make up for the loss of draft picks after declining arbitration for Abreu, et al). I'm not convinced Sheets' is healthy. So I say no on him. Burnett is probably a necessary risk. I like Lowe but worry about the infield backing him up and thus question how effective he will be. Bypassing Sabathia would open up several appealing options for the Yankees.

Unrequited love! Sounds like a reverse Beltran opening for Omar. CC will come to the Mets for a little less this time.

The "marriage" of CC and the Yanks could be worse - like the real breakup between John Moores and his wife could force a sale of 40% of the Padres (California is a community property state) and the decision to knock the payroll down to the 40 mm level.

I'm also in favor of two solid starters versus one expensive and premier one for the Yanks.

I suggested moving Damon a while back and Ken generally disagreed with the idea, saying that Damon wouldn't net much in return and that the Yankees want him around. As I said then, I would love to move Damon and the money he's making. I could even live with Gardner is center for half a year to see it done (I'm a big Austin Jackson fan and think it's within the realm of possibility he'll be ready to go mid-year). But even if they can't move Damon, one year of him in center (with Brett or Melky taking over late) would not kill the team. Sheets' health is always an issue because he misses so much time, but his injury history is less significant than Burnett's, and he's had a lot of freak injuries like broken ribs and ear infections. I've watched Sheets a lot over the years. He doesn't have the same stuff he did in '04, but I think he's worth the risk of a three-year deal.

It sounds like the Braves will offer a 5-year contract to Burnett according to Mark Feinsand of the NY Daily News. Giving Burnett 5 years is a mistake. A 4-year deal is better than a 5 year deal because of Burnett's history of being inconsistent and getting injury. Hopefully the Yanks don't get Burnett because he's not worth the risk of giving him 5 years and he's unreliable. And Sheets is always hurt every year, so the Yanks shouldn't go after him too.

Bailey, its not just Ken reporting CC wants to play on the West Coast...all reporters are.
CC probably told his agent to leak that and he has. Or maybe he told one of his friends to leak it. But the fact we haven't heard
CC say differently is pretty telling in my book.

Personally, I'd rather have 100 mil and be happy than play in a City I dont want to play in. We love NY but its not for everyone.

For someone who wasn't happy in Milwaukee, CC looked really happy when he pitched and won the last game of the season to get Milwaukee into the playoffs. Then he jumped into the box seats and started to high-five the fans down there. So, maybe he wasn't as unhappy as everyone thinks. And if he will be totally unhappy in NY and not so unhappy making less money in Milwaukee, he should suck it up and go there.The Angels don't really need him, the Dodgers do and can't afford him as SF is in that situation also. San Diego is obviously out of the question as is Oakland I suppose (who knows with them?).
So CC needs to look himself in the mirror and ask himself what's more important 20million more dollars or my happiness? Yankees Win!! THEEEE Yankees win!!! :))

I cannot help but think CC's agent is convincing him to hold on a little longer to try to get another team bidding against the Yanks just so they will get an even bigger deal than what is currently on the table.
I'm sure the agent has read or heard that the Yankees will not be outbid for CC and he wants the Yanks to prove it, but it's hard to do when nobody else has come through with anything remotely close. My feeling is this: If CC and his agent would have accepted that first offer by the Yanks, they would have wondered if indeed they could have gotten even more from the Yanks because in the business world, you never want to jump on the first offer. I also think CC's agent also wants to prove his worth to his client because CC probably would have thought to himself "why do I need an agent when I am jumping on the opening bid?".

Therefore, it is my humble opinion that the agent is playing games and hey, good for him if he squeezes another $10M out of the Yanks, I mean he knows they badly need his client.

Also, I've never heard that CC hates NY, I've actually seen quotes from Peavy that say just that so I won't hold anything against CC that I do not know to be true.
Does he probably prefer California? Sure, but who doesn't prefer their home state?

At the end of it all, I think the Players Union will not be very happy at all with CC if he takes significantly less money from another team as they will feel that he "screwed" the next guys in line for paydays.

The comment at 12:30 was from me.

Richie, I never said C.C. didn't prefer the west coast -- I said just that. What I object to is the idea that he's dead-set against playing in New York. This is simply a rumor. He hasn't said it and neither has his agent. He's a Cali boy and wants to play near his family -- as I said before -- but the idea that he somehow loathes the idea of playing in New York is simply speculation.

Like any fan, I'll be happy as hell if CC comes to the Yanks and wins 20 games and pitches us into the World Series. But I didn't like this when it started and I don't like it now.

And I still can't move from the fact that the reason they are going so hard after CC is that they've thrown it in on Hughes and Kennedy (although maybe Kennedy deserves it). Think about it, if you resigned Pettitte, got a solid starter, like Lowe, plugged him into Mussina's slot in the rotation, and went to war with Wang, Joba, Pettite, Lowe, and Hughes, with a bullpen of Rivera, Marte, Aceves, Coke, and someone else you could grab off the pile, IMHO, you'd do pretty well. The team won 89 games last year with only ONE of those guys in the rotation full-time, and he didn't even have that great a year.

Like a lot of you have pointed out, there's still a really good chance that the CC/Yanks thing will work out. But as a fan, I just wish they would be exploring other options as well.

Tim,
The problem is Joba will have an innings limit and Pettitte is 36+ years of age and finished the year with a sore shoulder that he does not want operated on so the worry is it will come back next season.
Hughes will also have that innings limit so there are just too many variables in that rotation and as we've seen from the past few seasons, the rotation just cannot stay healthy so if you add a 200 inning, top of the rotation, left handed horse like CC to the top of the rotation, then everyone can get slotted where they should be- Wang is a very good pitcher, but not the "ace" that other teams fear, he will be a great number 2, you could throw Pettitte in the 3 spot, although I prefer him at 4, but to keep the innings down on Hughes and Joba you sort of have to keep them at the back end of the rotation. Kennedy and Aceves can fill in for Hughes and Joba occasionally to keep their innings down.

I don't think for a second that Cashman and the Yanks are sitting by the phone waiting for CC to call, my guess is they are exploring other options but nobody will talk to them until CC makes a decision so they can gauge their desperation- if CC signs elsewhere, the agents for all the other FA's will really up their asking price/years when talking to the Yanks.
At that point, it would not surprise me if the Yanks made some kind of blockbuster trade (Brandon Webb?).

Interesting, Jim, and good points. Since I don't expect the Yanks to get priced out, it could benefit them if CC signs elsewhere, since he'll probably sign for less money and drive the prices for everyone down.

Maybe they should sign Manny (God forbid!) and trade Damon and Kennedy and Cabrera for Webb or someone else.

Maybe I should go back into therapy. :>)

The Yanks want to upgrade their starting pitching and Sabathia is a guy they want the most. Right now Sabathia is waiting to see if any other team beside the Yanks and Brewers will make a offer to him. The Yanks basically putting all their eggs in one basket with Sabathia.
AL MVP Dustin Pedroia sign a 6-year $40.5 million extension with a club option for 2015 at $11 million with the Red Sox. The deal covers one pre-arbitration season, all three arbitration seasons, and two years of free agency.

Ken, you say, "So, will it be the Yankees' $140 million, or the Brewers' $100 million? That's hardly a debate."

However, you failed to say that, one is for 6 years, and one is for 5. So if you consider that the Yankees offer is for 23.3 million a year, and the Brewers is for 20 million a year, its not really that far off. I could see the Brewers adding 10 million or so to the total, and making it very close, especially if he'd rather pitch for the Brewers.

Bailey, you're right about that. I haven't heard that he hates NY either.
But it would be pretty dumb for him to say it because he'd lose a valuable negotiation chip
if he did just blurt that out.

Ken, I know you cant give out your sources, but maybe
...maybe...you can tell us this. How many times when
there are sources and leaks, do the leaks and source
come from the actual player??

And if some player said, "you can say a friend of mine told you this..."
would it still be ethically ok to say a friend said?
I never did investigative journalism, so I didn't really
have to worry about this.

If the Yankees could trade for Webb for Damon, Kennedy and Melky Cashman would do a tap-dance naked in centerfield at the new Yankee Stadium. I don't know that Webb is available (they tried to sign him to an extension and failed and now they have money issues), but a top-line, true-ace like Webb means you start at Hughes and Austin Jackson and build from there. Arizona would be foolish not to ask for Melancon and Montero, too. Forget it -- getting someone like Webb (who's signed to a ridiculously affordable contract for the next two years) would be a farm-system-blowup kind of deal.

I don't think anyone should worry about C.C. not accepting the Yankees' offer yet. Aside from the Brewers, what other deals are out there for him? The Angels are waiting on Tex. So the Yankees might be C.C.'s second choice, he's the Angels' second choice. That's how things go.

baileywalk, I don't think I've ever reported "Sabathia hates New York," and I don't think anyone has. What has reported repeatedly _ by me and by others _ is that Sabathia prefers the West Coast and the National League. I think it's apparent by his actions these last 17 days that he's been waiting to see if a West Coast market emerged. So while he won't be miserable to sign with the Yankees, or move to New York, or back to the American League I'm confident to say there would be some disappointment on his part.

Sandy, where did you get the idea that Sabathia didn't like Milwaukee? By all accounts, he enjoyed it a great deal.

Josh, I understand what you're saying about the years and the AAV. But the Yankees' offer is a record-breaker, both for AAV and total package for a starting pitcher (discounting the Yankees' pro-rated, one-year, $28-million deal for Clemens in '07), while the Brewers' offer breaks no records.

Richie, sorry, man, I'm just not comfortable discussing that stuff, especially on the blog publicly.

Ken, you are a smart man. You should never talk about how you specifically come up with the type of information you are referring to. Once a reporter can't be trusted, they should immediately find a different career.

People hear what they want to hear...
This from River Avenue Blues about Adam Dunn:
'He sucks defensively out in left field, posting revised zone ratings
of .899, .826 and .878 over the last three seasons. Dunn has
some experience at first, but he’s bad there as well and hurts
the team less by hiding out in a corner outfield spot.'

Guy sucks. Take away his homers and he has nothing. It baffles
me that anyone can fall in love with this guy. I guess chicks love
the longball. So you want to trade D for O just like all the past
failed teams? Some people never learn. Getting rid of Damon is
a bad idea regardless. He is an excellent leadoff hitter. Thankfully,
C-money isn't stupid enough to consider Dunn.

Jim A. is right. The wait for CC is a non-story.

Totally understand Ken. That's why I said maybe....seemed like a grey area.

As for CC, I think if he stays in the N.L., he has a chance to be a legend and be really happy. If he goes to the Yanks
he'll be a very good pitcher that probably doesn't dominate like he could in the N.L. And I am planning on reusing this when I host the blog for the day but...
they always say if you win in NY they build a statue of you. Funny, I never saw a statue of any NY player. But I know there's one of Musual and other great players in other cities. Meaning, you're just another great player in NY, but
we already have our heroes. You dont have to share in Milwaukee.

"Take away his homers and he has nothing." Nothing?!? Peter LaCock, were you referring to Adam Dunn or Ryan Howard??? I doubt that you are as tough on other defensively-challenged fielders as you are with Dunn. His OPS+ last year was 129; Howard's, supposedly an MVP candidate, as 124.

JE- I think Peter means he just clogs up the roster the way Giambi and Matsui do/did.
Cashman keeps saying he wants the team to be more athletic and Dunn doesn't fit that mold at all. He's a statue (that was for you Richie) in LF and has feet of stone at first base. If the Yanks were going to sign him, I'd rather they, and I can't believe I am going to write these words, sign Manny instead- at least he will hit for average, power and he will walk a lot and I honestly think his defense is better than Dunn's. Plus we know that Manny would tear Boston up whenever the Yanks play them.

For me, it's all about the pitching though. I want pitching, pitching and more pitching!

Another reliever signs with a team that is not the Mets. Bob Howry signs with the Giants for 1 year $2.75 million. So now the Giants have sign Howry and Jeremy Affeldt for their bullpen. Two guys that the Mets had no interest in. The Gaints also are working on a deal for Edgar Renteria and are in discussions with the Marlins about a possible deal with Lefthanded Jonathan Sanchez going to the Marlins for infielder Jorge Cantu.
Lefthanded reliever Trever Miller has officially sign with the Cardinals getting a 1-year contract. He was suppose to get a 2 year deal, but the Cardinals were concern about Miller's physical that was related to Miller having surgery in 2000 for a torn labrum.

I hear you, Jim A, but the "clogging up the bases" claim is a myth, IMHO, unless you have guys with isolated power (i.e., few extra-base hits) coming up to the plate behind an uber-slow runner. (Think of Frank Thomas when he was on the Blue Jays.) Again, any team that would gladly put up with Ryan Howard's immobility can probably handle Dunn.

Dennis - so true, and I am waiting for the Mets to make some movement and acknowledge their middle relief problems rather than wait for the market to come back to them.
They have a weak pen and no closer - right now they have "No Bridge to Nownere"

Ken, I never said you reported that Sabathia "hated" New York nor did I target you specifically. I completely agree with you, actually: Sabathia wants to play on the west coast, but would be willing to come here to New York. New York wouldn't be his first choice. I'm sure he would be somewhat disappointed not playing on the west coast. But how is he any different from every other free agent? Sometimes you become a free agent at the wrong time -- when the team you want doesn't need you or can't afford you. How many free agents get exactly what they want? Most don't, but it's not a big story -- it doesn't take on a vibe of the player "resigning" himself to his decision. I just feel -- and again, this is not directed at you specifically -- that the coverage of Sabathia has gotten to the point where people are implying that Sabathia wants no part of New York (even though we don't know if that's true or not). I'll just feel for the guy if he does sign here, because he'll be dogged by this question for his entire stay. Wanting to play close to home doesn't necessarily equal disliking New York. You've said that, and you know that, but others haven't been quite so even-handed.

baileywalk, to be fair, the bigger the free agent, the more scrutiny he's going to get on his decision. To think of a few recent examples:

2002 - Jim Thome signs with Philly over Cleveland, thanks largely to the union's pressuring him to take the higher offer. He had to fight the perception for three years that he didn't want to be there - right until he waived his no-trade clause to join the White Sox.

2002 - Tom Glavine signs with the Mets over Atlanta. The Braves made him a humiliating offer, and he felt he had no choice but to sign with the Mets (although he made one more end run to the Braves before his agent dissuaded him). For five years, Glavine said he was perfectly happy in New York - until he went back to the Braves as soon as his nemesis, GM John Schuerholz, moved upstairs.

2004 - Carlos Beltran signs with the Mets, but is so disinterested in being a Met that Scott Boras calls the Yankees and offers him at a discount. The Yankees say thanks but no thanks. Mets fans still have a lukewarm relationship with Beltran, despite three straight excellent seasons.

So I don't think Sabathia is setting any sort of precedent here.

Ken, Sorry I took so long. I think I was replying to someone above me about CC being unhappy in Milwaukee. Believe me, I read all fall after the trade he didn't want to be there, but I watched that last game and I saw how happy he was, so I don't think it is totally out of the question he signs with them. In fact, I think if he really doesn't want to be in NY, he will be there. But I think he will take the money whether he wants to or not, thanks to business.

As far as Dunn goes, the yankess would never settle for the lack of effort he plays with. So, if he ever took money, he better come in with the proper attitude. It's not like he's an elite player. He strikes out 200 times a year and hits .240. He played in a fairly cozy ballpark and hit 40 HRs a year. He's lackluster in the field. He's never played on winning teams.

/ melodrama

Sandy,

Let me debunk the myth of Dunn benefiting from playing in the Reds' ballpark:

Dunn led all of the major leagues in avg. home-run distance this season. Don't wanna believe it? Go to hittrackeronline.com

I know this is not something you will like to hear, but Dunn as a hitter is almost as valuable as Mark Texeira. Batting average is almost worthless.

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