So you might be wondering what happened to Hibernation Update II. Good question. We apologize if you saw it and now you don't. Don't worry. It's not your computer. Something fishy is going on with Newsday's blogs causing some entries to disappear. (Hopefully you're still reading this.) Thanks to those of you who emailed me.
As for my hibernation, my wife and I spent Christmas in Western New York -- Falconer, to be exact. It's a small town next to Jamestown on the map. Jamestown, you may or may not know, was the first stop on Randy Johnson's career path, when he played for the Montreal Expos NY-Penn League affiliate based there. I asked Randy about that stop two spring trainings ago, but I can't say we bonded over that. He told me he lived in some old lady's home and didn't go anywhere but the park. Then he walked away into the trainer's room. Going to miss that always kind and engaging Big Unit.
Hard to lose any sleep over the thought of trading Johnson, I think. I know it's hard to give up 200 innings however shaky and unpredictable that they may be, but it makes sense to me if they can pry some of those D-Backs' prospects. Johnson is leaving after the season, anyway, so why not get something for him now. I think they'll win with a rotation of Pettitte, Mussina, Wang, Igawa and either Clemens, Hughes, Karstens or Rasner. And, by the way, I think Clemens is a real possibility.
Happy New Year!
Comments (840)
Jim Baumbach-
What are your thoughts about the RJ trade? If so what prospects would you like to see the Yanks get in return for him?
Have a Happy New Year Jim!
RJ should be traded because of his value to certain teams out of our league and the benefit of prospects or a proven major leaguers in return.
Honestly, don't have a clue about value in return but BC knows the team he wants to put on the field come April.
Jim no Pavano, I'm shocked, he could be the comeback player of the last two years (special category).
THESE DIAMONDBACKS PROSPECTS DO NOT IMPRESS ME AT ALL. GO WITH THE SAN DIEGO DEAL, GET LINEBRINK. ALSO, ARIZONA'S PRESIDENT DERICK HALL STATED THE OTHER DAY THAT CHAD TRACY, CONAR JACKSON, AND ALL OF THEIR STARTING OUTFIELDERS ARE NOT AVAILABLE. IT WAS IN THE NY POST A COUPLE DAYS AGO. WHILE EVERYONE THINKS TRADING JOHNSON WILL SAVE THE YANKEES MONEY. IN THE END IT WON'T. THE YANKEES ARE GOING TO GO HARD AFTER CLEMENS, AND I GUARANTEE IF THEY SIGN HIM FOR 1/2 YEAR, IT WILL COST MORE THAN 16 MILLION.
I'D ALSO LIKE TO SEE LORETTA COME IN AS A UTILITY INFIELDER, HE IS A HECK OF A HITTER, AS SOMEONE ELSE STATED, I DON'T KNOW HOW HE HASN'T BEEN PICKED UP BY SOMEONE BY NOW. SIGN DOUG M. FOR 1ST BASE. HE'S GREAT DEFENSIVELY, AND CAN HIT IN YANKEE STADIUM. ALSO, HE PLAYED HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL WITH A-ROD, SO A-ROD WOULD HAVE A "FRIEND" IN THE LOCKER ROOM.
if I understood correctly on the last blog someone stated that Gonzo would be involved in a trade for RJ .Last I knew Gonzo signed a free agent contract w/the Dodgers in November...I say the Yanks will hold Pavano thru spring training,banking on him having a good spring,I know that might be wishful thinking on my part...that it might up the ante on him ,seeing that alot of teams will be very willing to take on his current salary...this could get very interesting !....more prospects in the fold ...
NICK: I KIND OF AGREE WITH WHAT YOU SAY,BUT I DON'T THINK THAT MUCH OF SCOTT LINEBRINK EITHER,HE WOULD NOT BE THE SAME PITCHER IN THE AL EAST THAT HE IS NOW IN THE NL WEST,ANYWAY THE YANKS HAVE PLENTY RIGHTHANDED RELIEF PITCHING DEPTH...LORETTA WOULD BE A NICE ADDITION AS WOULD MIENTKIEWICZ...I DOUBT THE YANKS WOULD SHELL OUT 16 MILLION FOR CLEMENS FOR WHAT WOULD AMOUNT TO A 1/2 SEASON,CLEMENS WOULD HAVE TO BE WILLING TO PITCH FROM THE GET GO.
You're all forgetting something, Cashman's rumored asking price of:
One prospect PLUS one of either Connor Jackson, Chad Tracy or Carlos Quentin.
Don't let these "sources close to the negotiations" distract you from Cashman's vision. Don't believe anything you read in the papers from any source not officially affiliated with the Yankees. When the papers quote a Yankee source, then I would take it seriously. Until then, it's all spin.
Randy Johnson is a surefire number 3 starter in the NL. He'll attract major revenue for either the Diamondbacks (especially the D-backs) or the Padres. The NL West is a wide open division. The addition of a mid-rotation starter can mean the difference between one of the teams making or missing the postseason. If the Padres land Johnson, they improve and they keep him from the Diamondbacks and vice versa. There's a bidding war right now.
What's Johnson worth? See Cashman's rumored asking price above.
One prospect PLUS one of either Connor Jackson, Chad Tracy or Carlos Quentin.
Don't let these "sources close to the negotiations" distract you from Cashman's vision. Don't believe anything you read in the papers from any source not officially affiliated with the Yankees. When the papers quote a Yankee source, then I would take it seriously. Until then, it's all spin.
Randy Johnson is a surefire number 3 starter in the NL. He'll attract major revenue for either the Diamondbacks (especially the D-backs) or the Padres. The NL West is a wide open division. The addition of a mid-rotation starter can mean the difference between one of the teams making or missing the postseason. If the Padres land Johnson, they improve and they keep him from the Diamondbacks and vice versa. There's a bidding war right now.
The Arizona GM doesn't meet the asking price of one of Connor Jackson, Chad Tracy or Carlos Quentin PLUS one prospect added, then Cashman will take the higher offer from San Diego. If Johnson goes to San Diego then you just conceded the division to them. They'll have a front-end trio of Peavy, Young and RJ, followed by Maddux and Hensley.
Not only that, you'll lose millions in revenue from attendance as Johnson chases the historic 300 win mark. Your seats will remain empty and you will have no reason to cheer. All because you're afraid to trade Chad Tracy and a prospect.
I hear San Diego just upped their offer (rumored to be Kouzmanoff and Linebrink). Cashman was rumored to be wanting a prospect along with them and I think San Diego just met that demand.
Now it's up to the Diamonbacks to add a prospect to one of Jackson/Tracy/Quentin.
Last I heard, the D-backs are having difficulty extending Johnson so they withdrew their initial offer which granted them a 72 hour negotiation window with RJ's agent.
Ante up or you lose.
bambam
BamBam: I agree 1 from the 3 you mentioned + a pitching prospect would be a great trade for both parties...if the Padres land RJ you can't possibly concede the division to them not by a long shot...the Dodgers have the best balance in the division and the Giants made a huge leap, at least for 2007 in landing Zito...but that's a discussion for another blog...
Lotte signs 2-year deal with slugger Zuleta
source -japanball
RJ to the diamondbacks.
1. clears some cap space.
2. Hughes, Karsten, Sanchez, Clippard all get a crack at the rotation.
3. Farm system gets better.
4. The money we save may or may not go to Clemens but one thing is for sure Carlos Zambrano is a free agent next year and he is going to command major dollars if the cubs let him go.
Let the season start already
The D-Backs, according to KNBR in San Francisco, will not trade Conor Jackson, Chad Tracy, or Carlos Quentin; nor will they part with 3 pitching prospects. If a deal is made, the most the Yanks would be getting back is Dustin Nippert and Micah Owings; possibly Jose Vizcaino as a “throw in”.
Ill do that deal. Two good pitching prospects in the deal. I love it. Substitute Viscaino for a rookie catcher and that is a done deal
All those comments previously posted on Hibernation II was lost?
I know I am one of the few here, that thinks if Clemens do decide to pitch for the Yanks, him coming back in the middle of the season is a good thing.
He would still be strong when the post season comes along and that's really when they need him anyway.
I want Cashman take Padres Offer and get Arizona back for screwing us with Schilling.
The same management that supposidly screwed us with Schilling is no longer running the show. In fact, rumor is that Colangelo was fired BECAUSE he gave up Schilling for a bag of balls, and put screwing the Yankees ahead of his team's best interest
Andrew: how could you possibly take anything KNBR says seriously,the home of the Giants ? The Yanks will get a position player in return or the deal won't get done.It's the D-Backs who want RJ more than the Yanks want to unload him.They have very little to merchandise and are in desperate need of starting pitching,outside of Webb and a shakey Livan they got major holes to fill...
if Carlos Zambrano has a good yr the Cubs will lock him up 5-7 yrs with Zito type money,the Yanks are not interested in spending that kind of money on a free agent pitcher when they have at least 6 quality starting pitching prospects ready in 2007 or 2008
From Reading Dan Graziano's from tomorrow's Star ledger Article that Big wish: Yankees, D'backs near Johnson trade
Randy Johnson's brief stay in New York could end as soon as today
good bye randy.
In any RJ trade we should concentrate on getting promising minor league pitching prospects, and forget about current major league position players. We currently have holes at 1B, utility infielder, and backup catcher. These spots can be filled through free agency. We need to continue to accumulate good, young, cheap pitchers. We can use this stockpile in the "07" season, the July 31 trade deadline, and the future in general. If we could get a young star catcher, I would go for that. The abundance of young starting pitchers, and the $16 million committed to the 34yr. old Pettitte, would make me pass on Clemens. We need a younger starting staff in general, and a reduced payroll that will allow us the flexability necessary to fill any possible needs come the July 31 trade deadline. Team payroll and the luxury tax are now a concern with the Yanks.
I don't know what's with all this "a hole at 1B" business.
I don't see any holes there and I've made very valid arguments regarding that.
What you guys see as a weakness is actually a strength.
Bam Bam I think he's right because he likes to write a lot of stuff down that takes up a lot of space, and then copy and pastes it in the same post in a separate paragraph to make it seem like he's typing more.
Bam Bam I think he's right because he likes to write a lot of stuff down that takes up a lot of space, and then copy and pastes it in the same post in a separate paragraph to make it seem like he's typing more.
Also, he's intelligent enough to know that shedding Randy Johnson's $16 million salary won't save the Yankees a dime. Because they'll go and sign Clemens with that money. Even though they would probably do that regardless. So while in the first scenario, they trade Johnson, lose his $16 million from the books, then sign Clemens for that price, they break even. Then in the other scenario, they don't trade Johnson, sign Clemens anyway, it works out the same way. I know the normal laws of mathematics don't agree with this, but Bam Bam, it's all good.
Also, he's intelligent enough to know that shedding Randy Johnson's $16 million salary won't save the Yankees a dime. Because they'll go and sign Clemens with that money. Even though they would probably do that regardless. So while in the first scenario, they trade Johnson, lose his $16 million from the books, then sign Clemens for that price, they break even. Then in the other scenario, they don't trade Johnson, sign Clemens anyway, it works out the same way. I know the normal laws of mathematics don't agree with this, but Bam Bam, it's all good.
Wang's weakneess as pitcher doesn't have strikeout pitch and needs to developed a secondary pitch along with his great sinker. Great Hitters will adjust to Wang's sinker and He will be out of baseball if he can't developed some kind of new pitch.
I am a diehard yankees fan, and if clemens comes back, I might think about just becoming a cubs fan.. I hate clemens with a passion, he is nothing but a mercenary. I hope he takes some more steroids and gets busted, hopefully he will be on that 2003 list that is going to be leaked soon. I hope the yankees dont waste there money on clemens, one can only hope, its completely against what cashman has been trying to do with the team.
It doesn't make sense to trade Unit unless the Yankees get what they need in younger talent and if they want to "plug" a hole at 1B, that's an easy fix. The man gave us EVERYTHING he had and certainly 1,000% more than Puss Pavano. You don't just replace 425 inings and 34 win sthe last two years without getting what you want. Otherwise, the fact that he is 7-1 against Boston in those 2 years is worth his headache and salary!
Trading Unit makes perfect sense almost regardless of what the Yankees can get back for him.
first of all, to those saying that the Yankees should just take the Padres' deal I have three questions:
1) How can you be sure that the Padres' deal is on the table
2) What if Randy, upon hearing about a potential deal to San Diego said that he wouldn't waive his no trade clause to go there
3) What if the Padres wanted the Yankees to eat all of Unit's contract?
From all we're hearing the Yankees will walk away with some combination of Dustin Nippert, Micah Owings, Ross Ohlendorf, Brandon Medders, Luis Vizcaino and Dana Eveland.
Assuming that they get two of the younger guys (lets just say Nippert and Owings for the sake of argument) and Luis Vizcaino that would give them a group of Sanchez, Nippert, Owings, Chamberlain, Clippard, White and Kennedy as tradeable commodities to get that young catcher the team needs (Saltmatccia from Atlanta?)
After the Johnson deal goes down I expect Cashman will move quickly to fill out the roster, Meintkewitz to form a lefty/righty platoon at first with either Phillips or Phelps, perhaps bring back Ron Villone or bring in Scot Showenweis to add depth to the pen, maybe sign Loretta to replace Cairo as the team's utility infielder.
In addition, if the Johnson trade were to net the team Brandon Medders, a young set-up reliever, I expect that the next player being shopped will be Kyle Farnsworth - possibly to Philly for Carlos Ruiz (c - 27 years old)
As for Clemens - no point getting worked up about the prospect of him coming back until at least Memorial Day.
Chris, your sentiments regarding Clemens aren't the lease bit reasonable nor justifiable, and if I didn't know any better, with that illogical rationale, I wouldve thought you are a Red Sox fan.
Were you asleep in 1999 and 2000? (and 2001 for that matter when he was a Mariano Rivera error away from winning Game 7 of the World Series). Clemens may be a juicer, a drama queen, and a guy who fakes his retirement ad nauseum, but he also has two rings (not to mention a Cy Young) with the Yankees and he could play for my squad any time.
No offense, but my reaction to your comment was equitable to my reaction to the moron Red Sox fan who sits next to me at work and 'hates' Clemens despite the fact that the Red Sox LET HIM WALK...
Some comments on the above posts:
I agree that if we sign Rocket, it is best if it's for only the second half. That keeps him FRESH for the post season, which is where we really need him. We can use the first half to audition some of the kids and then have him fill the spot for the second half.
The Yankees will be fine for 2007 at 1B, and hopefully sign Teixeira for 2008. We really need to start looking for a young C prospect to backup and then replace Jorge. The D-Backs have a LH kid with some pop at AAA named Miguel Montero. Why isn't he ever mentioned as one of the prospects for Unit?
And, I don't see why we need to carry three 1B on this team (counting Giambi who could play there some)! Especially, just to cover the #9 hole. If we sign Doug M., he will play 85% of the time anyhow because there aren't many LH SP in the AL East (Boston has none). And, if we sign Loretta to be the utility IF, he can play 1B on the days a LH SP faces us. That would at least get him some AB's while he sits on the bench (A-Rod, Jeter, and Cano don't need much rest).
Also, IF there are three 1B, I see Phelps being the RH end of the platoon, not Phillips. By observation of BC's moves, it is clear to me that he has turned the page on Phillips. These are just a few of my thoughts...any comments?
Pretty good analysis, Rick. I really don't disagree with anything. As far as comments - I love the Teixeira idea. I think that is the reason why Cashman was so steadfast on his insistence on not offering any 1B more than 1 year. Or rather, I hope.
I do like the idea of a stud catching prospect coming over. Max Kellerman was bringing up a good point - in such a non-hitting position, Jorge Posada gives the Yankees a decided advantage, both with his bat, and under the tutelage of Tony Pena, his ability to throw out base stealers. Regardless of what that dude Kyle from Sacret Heart Sanctuary says.
Right now I'm just antsy being in Limbo with the whole Unit thing. Come on Cash, don't leave me hanging like Saddam! ZING!!!!! Was it just me or did anyone else do celebratory shots at around 10:00 pm ET last night?
Cashman previously signed Pettitte for $16 million, and is now attempting to trade RJ and his $16 million dollar salary. That roughly balances, depending on how much of RJ's contract we eat. Adding Clemens at roughly $16 million would ballon the current Yankee payroll, and increase our luxury tax come the Fall of "08". The idea that trading RJ and adding Clemens does not add to the team payroll is a falacy, and would make Enron proud. Cashman needs to "walk away" from Clemens and hold to his present course of accumulating good, young, cheap talent, while lowering our team payroll. Our starting staff needs to get younger. If we add Clemens, we are again going down the same road that brought us Kevin Brown, and RJ. I hope Cashman has learned from our previous mistakes.
Rick-
To answer your question about this kid the d-backs have in triple a.... Maybe Cashman and the Yankee brass know something about him that might not excite them. Remember all we do as fans is read stat lines. They have advanced scouts that make a living on scouting talent. There is a reason the Yanks want a Nippert or a Owings. Cashman is not dumb. Remember we got rid of Wright and actually got somebody in return for him. I know Cashman will not just give away Randy for nothing. That's why these trades don't happen overnight. They look at all the variables in the deal and make the best possible choice for the franchise.
As for them having 3 first basemen.I would like to think they would give Phillips a shot but it is clear that they are not sold on him. I say bring in Doug M. and Loretta. It can't hurt. These are minor holes at the moment.The focus should still be on pitching. Although I agree we do eventaully need a catcher I don't think it is a problem that needs to be filled at the moment. Pitching is what is hot on the market right now. Why else would some team what a 43 year old with back problems and even sign him to an extension? Down the road the Yanks might have an overload of pitchers and then we can explore maybe trading one for an established catcher. Only time will tell.
Depending on the standings, we may be forced to sign Clemens at the All-Star break, just to prevent the R\Sox from getting him. In general, I don't like the idea of players dictating they will only play half the season. Age is certainly a factor, but there is also the possibility that without the aid of steroids and "greenies", Roger can physically only tolerate half a season. Cashman needs to stay away from Clemens, his salary, his injuries, and his possible part-time status. We need a "team" attitude. Not guys that just show up when they feel like it.
AJ
I understand what you mean, however, I have some concerns with your observations of BC and the scouts. As far as them looking at the variables and making the right decisions for the franchise, don't forget they are the ones that brought us Wright, Pavano, Johnson, etc.
Also, pitching might be what's hot (and the key to winning championships), but we NEED to start thinking about a replacement for Jorge. I think Teixeira is the plan for 1B long term.
And, you can only accumulate so many top prospect pitchers! There are only so many roster spots at AAA to fill. Some AAA prospect is not going to want to go down to AA once he was already knocking on th ML door at AAA. Counting all the guys we already have at AAA and then looking at what we will get from the Unit deal, I just don't see where we will be putting all these guys?
Chances are the holdup in the deal is not so much the players involved or Randy waiving his no trade clause. It's all about adding 1 more year to his contract. He's at 280 wins and won't get No. 300 in '07. The Yankees won't offer to extend his contract for another year in '08 so if the D'Backs do then he rides off into the sunset and goes home. After the Zito deal, the D'Backs or Padres need to do something to better themselves in the NL West.
Rick-
You cannot lay blame on Cashman or the organization for bringing in the guys you mentioned. At the time Randy Johnson was coming off that season where he pitched that no-hitter down in Atlanta. He was great 16-14 with a 2.60 era and striking out 290 in 245 innings on a team that lost 110 games. At that time it was a smart move because we were looking for an ace. We all thought he was the answer and a good deal at the time. Secondly when we brought in Pavano he was coming off a good season down in Florida he was 18-8. Sure the money was foolish but did you think it was a bad signing at the time? It was either here or the Sox he was going and the Yanks prevented the Sox from getting him. Third Jaret Wright also came off a good season in Atlanta. He was 15-8. Another one that you can argue the money but not the move. At the time we needed pitching and Cashman went out and brought these pitchers to make the team better. Those are just 3 bad examples that didn't work.If you had an arguement about players brought in most that did not work out were Geroge's fault not Cashmans. Sheffield,Brown,Giambi were all brought in by George. Cashman was the one to bring Abreu in here for peanuts. How come that deal doesn't bother you? In the past Cashman was told what to do from above. Now he has a little bit more control and as you see 1 for the moment but the remaining 2 players you listed have a great chance of not wearing pinstripes next year. So why are you so alarmed about Cash and company when he is trying to restore George's mess?
atticas
Yeah, it's very interesting that BC ONLY wants a 1B for just a 1 year deal. He obviously has something in mind after that and one only need to look at the 2008 FA list to figure it out. Teixeira would be awesome and let's not forget that Mattingly was his favorite player growing up. He wears #23 because of Mattingly. I sure hope things play out with him being in pinstripes! WOW.
I doubt Torre and Cashman buy into Clemens for 1/2 season dribble...Clemens is quite capable of pitching an entire season at the age of 44 with Torre maybe giving him a start off on occasion...Clemens is not a steroid or drug user,his workout regimen is legendary...some of you bloggers forget how inconsistent Johnson was for close to 1 1/2 as a Yankee and posted good records solely by virtue of excellent run support...Rick Keyes: the D-Backs traded Estrada to open up the catchers position for Montero ,it would be lunacy for them to trade him at this point...there is always this suggestion among us Yankee fans that we get to raid other teams farm systems for their best prospects...we all have to remember RJ is 43 and may not have anything left in the tank ....having said that Cashman should hold firm on getting 1 position player and an excellent pitching prospect...the D-Backs have at least 3 position players at triple A who could easily fill the void if say Jackson ,Tracy,or Quentin are traded every GM is aware of this ..they have Alberto Callaspo 2b,Chris Carter 1b,Brian Barden 3b,Chris Young,of...by receiving a position player it allows for flexibility if the Yanks decide to flip players for a established pitcher or position player....if the Yanks continue to stockpile triple A starting pitchers eventually they'll have the option of giving them a shot or trading them for a valued commodity like a lefty reliever or a top notch catching prospect.
AJ
I NEVER liked or would have signed Pavano or Wright. They both ONLY had one good year in their lives and that was their walk years. Also, they were on NL teams when they had those good years. Meanwhile, Lilly was a PROVEN AL East performer and we didn't even make him an offer.
As for RJ, he was coming off a decent (16-14) year (in NL West) and I might of made a trade for him. But, I would NEVER have given him a 2 year extension at those kinds of $$$. I used these guys as my examples because you are the one that says pitching is "hot".
Also, it is the ORGANIZATION which is headed by BC that you DO blame for all of these decisions. The Boss is no longer calling the shots (with the exception of Sheffield three years ago). And, why do you hate Giambi so bad?
AJ: I agree w/ what you say,the Yanks had major starting pitcher issues at the end of 2004 and needed to act ,although given Pavano and Wright injury histories even though they were coming off career yrs I still think it was an unsound move ....it's strange how 2005 turned out with Small ,Wang,and Chacon combining for a 25-8 record saved the regular season...2006 it was the emergence of Wang
ruse
I didn't realize the D-Backs traded Estrada. Thanks for the update. I still think we need to be looking for a young C prospect. It needs to be a priority. Can anyone explain what we would do for 2007 IF posada were to have an extended injury (like Matsui & Sheffield)?
Rick Keyes: I totally agree with the need for either an excellent catching prospect or a servicable backup w/ a little pop and good D...My sense is that's coming next on Cashmans checklist of things to do.
Rick-
I hate Giambi because he is a lying cheating waste of space. Because of him we cannot move Matsui to DH. Because of him we need to find a first baseman when he is a first baseman. He does nothing to help this team and never will. He is slow and plays terrible defense. If you want Texiera here just get rid of Giambi and it would make sense. Otherwise we are stuck with Giambi and his steriod injuries.
As for Cashman...he is fixing the team. I cannot name one bad move he has made since Fransworth. All last season he was great including getting Abreu.
Lilly is fair at best.It is smart that Cashman did not offer Lilly 4 years 40 million. Since leaving in 2002 Lilly is 49-45. How is a 49-45 pitcher proven to you? Now compare to the guys you don't like....Since 2002 Pavano is 37-33.Since 2002 Wright is 35-28. Since those guys pitched in the NL and had 1 good year and according to you,you would have never signed them. Name me one good year Ted Lilly had?
IF the Indians sign Mulder, they will probably be looking to trade Westbrook since he will be due for big $$$ in a year or so. And, being penny pinchers, they are ALWAYS looking for prospects.
Maybe we could spin a couple of these AAA pitchers we're accumulating to Cleveland and get Westbrook back? The guy is an innings eater and tough as nails! I would take him over Clemens any day. Younger, cheaper, and AL proven.
Roy: I don't always agree with your points but they are well received. Also, I do not want Clements for 1/2 year for whatever x dollars, either. I believe in chemistry on a team similar to the '95 through '01 teams.
To me it would appear that Roger is our saviour on top of his white horse. The Yankees have a solid team which may be getting stronger real soon. The mindset of this All Star lineup will not accept this mid season hiring. Thus the chemistry goes down the toilet as it did this year with the return of Sheffield.
Look at the the teams in the WS. They were good but did not match our star appeal but had great desire and chemistry.
AJ
2006 - 15 game winner pitching in the AL EAST against the NYY and Red Sox, et al where teams play each other 19 times each! Playing WITH the Yanks and their offense, he could of easily won 17-18 games.
Oh, thanks for reminding me of Farnsworthless. I forgot about that great BC move. He's the reason we have to carry 18 RP on the roster!!!
Also, Giambi was the ONLY "juicer" in MLB to actually come forward and try to apologize. He also worked his ass off to get back to being productive. What about Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, Palmeiro, etc? I'll bet you think they are all great HOF's? At least Giambi faced it like a man, instead of living in denial.
Oh, and I think there is another LH guy that is "slow", can't play defense, overweight, and does pretty well for himself. He also plays MLB. Maybe you have heard of him....Big Papi?
Larry M-
I could not agree with you anymore. Well put.
Larry M
I agree with you and Roy on Clemens. That is why I brought up the idea of going after Westbrook in lieu of Clemens.
Obviously, you have never seen Westbrook pitch. Hes a 500 pitcher who allows too many hits and too many walks. hes a 4th/5th starter.
Brett
Yeah, I'm a season ticket holder for Cleveland and I've never seen this guy pitch!
Brett
Clemens was 7-6 last year. Is he a .500 pitcher, a number 4-5 SP?
Rick-
Name me one good year Lilly had? You still have not answered that.
Also I am aware of the other juicers. No I don't think they should go to the hall of fame. Remember I am the same person that is all for this team trading A-Rod. I do not attach myself to superstar players and love everything they do because they wow the stat sheets. Giambi did come out and face it like a man but he should be punished and thrown to the media just like the rest of the cheaters. He deserves it every bit. Big Papi however is slow and fat. But his porduction is on another level compared to Giambi. I was not defending Wright or Pavano nor Fransworth. I was defending Cashman because in logic he is making the best possible moves. If you were a GM and you brought in Texiera people would complain about how you brought in another all-star to an all-star filled line up that will hit a bunch of homers and in the long run do nothing to help this team win. I agree that all the guys we signed in the past couple of years have not worked but Cashman is doing what he can to fix that. Put yourself in his shoes at least he is dumping a 43 year old. Got rid of a cancer in Sheff and stayed away from Hillenbrand another cancer. He did not throw money at Lilly because it was gross how much money a .500 pitcher got in this market. I cannot fault Cashman for anything this off-season. He is trying to build chemistry and a baseball team.
Rick-
Lilly went 15-13 with a 4.31 era. That was a good year?
AJ
I did answer you, I said it was 2006. You have to look at stats with some sense of CONTEXT. 15-13 pitching 19 times each against the AL EAST is not the same as 15-13 pitching in the NL West.
First, you tell me RJ was 16-14 in 2004 (in NL West) and act like that was awesome or something! That is why BC made the move to get him. But then, a guy is 15-13 in the AL EAST, and he sucks. You make no sense, but then, that's par for the course I guess.
Rick-
First off Lilly pitched on a BETTER team than Johnson did on Arizona.
Also Johnson is a proven winner. He is not a career .500 pitcher like your boy Lilly.
Secondly did Lilly pitch 19 times against those teams? I believe it was only 7 times. Last time I checked the Jays also play teams like Seattle,Kansas City,Baltimore and Tampa Bay. Lilly is a .500 pitcher. Look at the stats they don't lie.
AJ
I agree with the last half of your comments posted above. I know BC is TRYING to build a team with chemistry and dump the "mistakes" and "cancers". I applaud him for that. And, I think we are the only ones that think A-Rod should go.
I too don't need an allstar at every position, but when we have a need at a certain spot (1B) and a good young FA (Teixeira) is available, I say get him. He is a long term solution for 1B. With Cano at 2B, the right side would be anchored for a long time.
As for Giambi, I'm not saying he is perfect. I am saying he was the ONLY one that came forward (out of denial) and faced the facts like a man. And he was faced with the toughest media in the world, the NY press. And, he did work hard to come back and be productive for the team. He led the team in HR and had well over 100 RBI last year. I just think he deserves a "little" more consideration than these other "juicers" for the way he's dealt with it.
I also apologize for my smart ass comment above. Sometimes, my sarcasm gets the best of me and I get a little cocky. I do appreciate blogging with you and the other regulars!
Brian Cashman has done a very good job in 2006 since being given the authority necessary to bring this team back. I'm looking forward to a great '07. I would love to see a young catching prospect brought in a trade and watch his development with Jorge and Pena. The Yankees have always had great or excellent catchers . Jorge playing 2007 and backing up the youngster in 2008.
Another feature of Cashman's work would be getting the luxury tax down to a minimum. So, the wealthy owners of the smaller markets can't put the money in their pockets with Selig's blessing. I know the Yanks will pay the necessary freight to bring a winner to the Bronx while keeing the tax down. Its a game but big business as we see more and more.
I liked signing Lilly because of the dollars involved. He was offered $40 million for 4yrs. by the Cubs, and told Cashman he would take less from the Yanks. My guess is we could have had him for $38 million for 4 yrs. Yet we sign the older, bad elbow, Pettitte for 2yrs. at $32 million. The $6 million dollar difference between the 2 pitchers means we essentially would have been paying Lilly $3 million a year for the last 2 years of his contract. Factor in that Lilly begged to become a Yankee, is younger than Pettitte, and doesn't have the arm issues Pettite has had the last 2 yrs, and the choice is easy. The only way I would have both "passed" on Lilly, and not signed Pettitte, is if I had "ear marked" that spot in the rotation for a young, cheap, promising, pitcher. As for the backup catcher spot, I agree to needing a young Posada replacement filling that hole immediately. Next to pitching, the catcher position is getting increasingly difficult and expensive to fill.
Rick-
I too enjoy blogging with you. In the end even if we don't agree with one another we are all Yankee fans.
Roy
That's my whole point on Lilly. He was not superman. But, in TODAYS MARKET, he was a bargain and wanted to come home to NY. 4 years at $38 mil for a AL EAST PROVEN 15 game winner, who is young and LH to be a #4 SP is not a bad deal. That's my whole point!
And, technically, after 2008, our entire rotation includes Wang and ???? Having Lilly at $3 mil net each for the next two years wouldn't hurt at all.
AJ
And we all usually agree with each other on SOME things. Like you and I on A-Rod. And, yes, we ALL our Yank fans!
It's rainy and cold where I live, but you guys "brighten" the day. Thanks. Once we get to Jan., it's only 6 weeks till pitchers and catchers report. Can't wait.
My idea for RJ trade:
D-Backs get: Randy Johnson
Yankees get: Luis Vizcaino, Dustin Nippert & Ross Ohlendorf
- Vizcaino is an interesting proposal. He, as well, made a nice minors-majors transition, seeing nary a dropoff in any of his peripherals. However, his home run rate is cause for caution. Any time you have a reliever with more than 1.00 HR/9, you’re asking for trouble. He’s mitigated a bit because it came in at just over 1.00 last year, and that was in a park ranked fourth in Park Factor. Yankee Stadium ranked 27th.
- Nippert, 25, is a 6-8 righthander who was 13-8 with a 4.87 ERA in Triple-A last season and lost both his major league starts.
- Ohlendorf, a 6-4 righty, spent most of last season in Double-A, going 10-8 with a 3.29 ERA. Ohlendorf had 125 strikeouts and only 29 walks in 177-2/3 innings.
Dan - What do you think? Too much? I just figure the price is more now that the Giants signed Zito. Now the Padres and the D-Backs HAVE to do something or give the division away. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Besides, as stated before, the D-Backs dont have top noch prospects like we got from Detroit. They are forced to overpay. What do you think?
Steve — December 30, 2006 @ 8:25 am
I think Cashman has some insight into Clemens. I think he realizes the Astros may not be able to attract him again and the Red Sox may not want to make another layout of cash for one year. Technically DiceK is costing them $60 million this year (who knows if they actually pay the 51.1 million all at once). Their payroll is going to be higher then its ever been (assuming JD signs), and its not as if another player will attract more money at the gate for them, even if its Clemens (they sell out every game). I think Cashman sees all of this and knows he may have gone to the front of the race.
Aside from that I dont think Cashman knows anything. I think he is really doing this because he wants depth in the minors, and thats it. No Machiavellian plan, just taking his chances. Pettitte, Wang, and Mussina and the kids can get them through the first half. And then see what happens. Johnson is good starting pitcher, and I think he could really do something this year, but Cashman knows what can happen come October with 40+ pitchers who have a history of back injuries (see Kevin Brown).
I like the D-Backs Owings more than any of these other guys!
I heard Nippert is not all that bad either. This guy Owings is pretty impressive going 16-2 in the minors. I think we will have more than enough arms down in Scranton after this that maybe Cashman can turn around after developing one of these arms and trading him. With the market for pitching so desprate and dead we can get a whole lot back in return.
Rick Keyes : I believe the Indians are going to hold on to Westbrook ,they are maybe 2 relief pitchers away from being a great team,once again give up these fantasies of the Yanks raiding other teams for their talent...Clemens was 7-6 last yr because the Astro bullpen blew at least 6 leads they had prior to his departing the game,this also applies to the 2005 season when the bullpen blew leads left and right...I'm sure Clemens is aware of his own legacy ,he has a better chance of surpassing Warren Spahn in career wins at 364 pitching for the Yanks than with the Astros,but he would need a full season to do so ...16 wins ...Rick I gotta tell you I'm not sure why you have such a fascination w/ Lilly ? he lost 13 games pitching for a team w/ an excellent offense ,for the sake of comparision ,Pettitte lost 13 games pitching for a team with a dreadful offense ...most of his losses coming the first half of the season...besides the disabled list has become Lilly' home away from home...Lilly will suffer pitching 1/2 his games at Wrigley...One last thing on Westbrook outside of 2004 he really hasn't proven to be anything more than a 4th starter,he gets hammered an awful lot.I think the Yanks currently can do a lot better thru their farm system.
I was reading Patrick Reusse of Star Tribune on his recent column says that Twins have no shot resigning Santana and needs to trade him next winter. thoughts?
If Santana does become available in trade next winter, he's probably the one player the Yankees would give up Philip Hughes to bring in" Why would yankees trade hughes when Santana who becomes free agent next year?
source - Star Tribune
Mediaj33-
As much as I would like to believe the Yanks have a shot at Santana it is sad to say but NO WAY! The Twins will not only resign him but they would get rid of salary just to do it. He is going to be a Twin for a long time. On the other hand a guy like Carlos Zambrano becomes a possiblity. But as far as I see it Hughes will not get traded and Santana will be a Twin. These guys write these articles just to sell papers. Their is no source behind that. It is just a guy sitting in front of a computer trying to figure a way to stir up noise and sell papers.
Some thoughts on Giambi: In his own way he admitted to steroid use, you can say what you want but at least it was his attempt to come clean...the one thing that's always bugged me is in essence the Yanks signed a great hitter on the juice when it was the MLBs dirty little secret,he continued to juice midway thru the 2003 season then his production fell off and all these juice related injuries began to occur...it's true he's had his post juicing moments w/the Yanks but now what they have on their hands is a .260 hitter ,not the .300 hitter they thought they were getting, he tends to fade in games,is better suited to hit 5th or 6th in the line-up than 3rd which is why they signed him for 20 mil per,he was supposed to be able to carry a team on his back and outside of stretches mid 2005 to mid 2006 he really hasn't done that,he's been hobbled by injuries for nearly 2 yrs of his contract and unfortunately for the Yanks he's got 2 yrs left,and I agree with what someone said they signed him to play 1st base and now he's morphed into a DH .
FOR SALE : Just a few left. Bahston Socks 2004 tee shirts. Great for waxing a car, getting winter mud off windshields, and checking engine fluid levels. Don't pass up this chance. Act now. 25 cents or best offer.
Ruse ,Do you why George sign Giambi? After Losing 2001 world series big impact of Luis gonzalez that year for diamondbacks. Gonzalez who hits 57 homeruns that year. It put pressure on george to sign a big bat.
akini : hindsight is always 20-20 but the Yanks would have been better off signing Tino to a 3-4 yr deal,he probably would have put up 30hr100rbi seasons for NY and plus the Yanks would have saved a crapload of money,what's done is done...
RUSE- Pettitte had an ERA of 4.20 and gave up more hits than innings pitched, while facing weak NL lineups. Lilly had an ERA OF 4.31 and gave up fewer hits than innings pitched, while battling the tough AL East, and the AL in general. When you also factor in the money we paid Pettitte vs. what Lilly wanted,(as we previously discussed), the younger Lilly is a better pitcher and budgetary choice than Pettitte.
ruse
Dittos to what Roy just said about Lilly. I just think he was a solid choice for the money in today's market with what was available. I also liked him when he was younger and the Yanks traded him away. And he WANTED to come back home to NY! I like players that WANT to be here.
I also love Pettitte and was pissed when they gave him the cold shoulder. He is obviously on the down side of his career now, but in a big game, I'll take my chances with Andy on the mound.
I wanted the Yanks to sign both of them. The rotation would then have been Wang, Pettite, Mussina, Lilly, and whoever?