On the Yankees beat

I think the Steinbrenners have proven that when it comes to baseball they are totally clueless. They seem to act as though making the playoffs is easy and a given and only the performance in the playoffs is what is measured. So what happens when they dont make the playoffs for say 3 years?

It is apparent that the Sox are now the team to beat every year and the Yanks are the pursuing pack leaders. The Steinbrenners can orchestrate all the Drama the want but the kids are clueless.

They're rookies. They seem to lean toward hiring a rookie manager. Rookies, learning curve, interesting times coming at us. Even if all the rookies were promising.

This is great we are going to take a great Yankee (Mattingly), who also happens to be the great jinx! And now make him the manager! Its the 80s and early 90s all over again. I guess Middle Stein and Little Stein will get it when the Yanks are back averaging 25,000 a game!

"It is apparent that the Sox are now the team to beat every year and the Yanks are the pursuing pack leaders."

-Agreed the sox are the team to beat this year, and perhaps for some time to come, but also keep in mind that they didn't even make the playoffs last year.

NY Times - Yankees hater Harvey Araton says Red Sox Caught Some Big Fish; Yanks Caught Grief

He's talking about Redsox got Beckett and Yankees have Pavano

[quote]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/25/sports/baseball/25araton.html?ref=baseball

What does the image of Josh Beckett towering over the baseball postseason through its first two rounds mean these days to the dizzy and disgruntled Yankees fan?

First and foremost, is he the strapping reminder of the last window to a World Series title slamming down on pinstriped fingers? Or is Beckett more reminiscent of the Yankees’ lifting of damaged goods at a Florida distress sale just a year after Beckett ushered in the beginning of the end of the Joe Torre era one October night at Yankee Stadium in 2003?

Even Rudy Giuliani may have to gag on a bite of his new favorite cuisine, the Fenway Frank, if the summary difference between the Red Sox’ run to another World Series and the Yankees’ third consecutive first-round demise was stated as follows:

Red Sox: Beckett. Yankees: Carl Pavano

A case of oversimplification, you say? Then enlighten us with a better explanation as to why Beckett was delivering the first pitch of the 2007 Series to the Colorado Rockies’ Willy Taveras here last night while the only Yankees action was limited to the Tampa-based administrative offices of Legends Field.

Beckett and Pavano were Marlins teammates in the championship season of 2003 and lastly in 2004. They were members of a staff of strong young arms that might have tamed the National League East for the better part of a decade had South Florida taxpayers been faster with their subsidization of a new baseball stadium.

“Beckett, Pavano, Brad Penny, they all pitched well for me, they were all good kids,” Jack McKeon, the former Marlins manager, said in a telephone interview before settling in at his North Carolina home last night to watch Game 1. “But Beckett, he was special — great ability, absolutely fearless, big-game pitcher.”

For the 2005 season, Pavano signed a four-year, $39.95 million deal with the Yankees, who outwooed — you guessed it — the Red Sox, who responded by making their own recruiting misstep in the person of the free agent Matt Clement. That left the Red Sox’ rotation old at the top (Curt Schilling) and mediocre in the middle.

By November 2005, the Marlins’ were in full budgetary meltdown and it was no secret that Beckett, their crown jewel, was available. The right price included two bright lights of the Red Sox’ farm system — shortstop Hanley Ramírez and pitcher Aníbal Sánchez. It also meant the Red Sox had to take the veteran third baseman Mike Lowell and the $18 million he was guaranteed. (Hide your eyes, Mets fans: a little-remembered detail of the deal is that Guillermo Mota also went to Boston.)

Lowell, coming off a lackluster season, suspected of being in career twilight, has driven in a combined 200 runs (120 this season) in his two years in Boston. Ramírez hit .332 and had 212 hits for the Marlins this season. Sánchez threw a no-hitter in 2006 before an injury limited him to six starts in 2007. Factoring in the financial considerations, the Marlins certainly didn’t get fleeced, but it is not as if the Red Sox’ front-office committee that boy-genius general manager Theo Epstein had run away from at the time of the exchange sold out their future.

Beckett, 27, may still be anchoring the Red Sox’ rotation when Roger Clemens is pitching for the Houston chapter of AARP.

“There was some skepticism when it was announced regarding the prospects we gave up,” Larry Lucchino, the Red Sox’ president and chief executive, said yesterday. “But we had the unique opportunity to get a young ace, accent on both words.”

Memo to the ace-starved Yankees from Lucchino, who famously called them the Evil Empire: eat your hearts out. And to underscore the win-win nature for the Red Sox and the Marlins, Lucchino told of “a very gracious call” he received Tuesday from his Florida counterpart, David Samson.

“I know what he was thinking: we helped you get there,” Lucchino said.

It was a case of bad baseball business that turned out fine for the Marlins and into something great for the Red Sox and — considering the alternative had Beckett not twice dominated the Indians in the championship series to lower his postseason career earned run average to 1.78 — good for baseball.

This may take on the unintended sound of Northeast snobbery, but the inclusion of the Red Sox to match up with the first-timers from Denver may have saved the game the embarrassment of another television ratings low for its premier event.

The coupling of the God-fearing Rockies and the devout Red Sox Nation should bolster the Series and surely gave suffering Yankees fans — sans the campaigning (for New Hampshire primary votes) Giuliani — reason to tune in last night, if only to exude negative energy as the man described by Schilling as “the best pitcher on the planet” tried to build on his 20-7 regular season and postseason dominance carrying forth from 2003.

Which is in startling contrast to Pavano’s record with the Yankees over three of the lamest years in expensive free-agent history: won five, lost six. Some big fish they landed from Florida. Charlie the Tuna, in comparison to Beckett.

E-mail: hjaraton@nytimes.com[/quote]

Why do you care Nudge, your not a Yankees Fan?

Where was John Henry and his newly found voice of reason when it came to Grady Little? He was fired in 2003 Alcs after leaving Pedro left too long and getting Redsox to Alcs. He was replaced by Terry Francona...

It's The same standard and expectations for Boston Redsox and Pats Fans , Nudge? Win World Series and Superbowl or Bust..

The reason why Grady Little was fired because Redsox didn't make World Series and won Ws in 2003? Can you Tell me Why The Yankees didn't bring back Joe torre?

oe's basically was getting a $1 million pay cut because you assume we make the post-season....and could make MORE than he did last year. Why the f*ck should we pay our manager, who we all agree has many flaws, $5million more than ANY other manager in the league? Get real....nothing wrong was done by the Yankees and if you believe for two seconds that Brian Cashman was not in contact with Joe Torre throughout the entire process,. Joe Torre wasn't left wondering what's going on, Cashman repeatedly said he had been in contact with Torre.

Torre's old contract was totally out of line for what MLB managers get paid

The Yankees are the richest, highest revenue, highest profile team in the majors, and lead the leagues in attendance.

Top six 2007 managerial salaries:
Joe Torre, NYY $7.5 million
Lou Piniella, CHC $3.5 million
Bobby Cox, ATL $3 million
Tony La Russa, STL $2.8 million
Mike Scioscia, LAA $2 million
Jim Leyland, DET $2 million

It's farcical to think that he is overpaid in the Yankees business system.

He was still the highest paid manager in baseball. I don't want to hear this sh*t that they didn't offer him enough. They gave him more than enough of an offer and he said no. Its on him. Its not on the Yankees. He said no. The Yankees made a lucrative contract offer and he said no. They gave him way more than he deserved and he said no. Thats it.

The Yankees did nothing wrong. It's basically at least $6 million for this year and there's no guarantee he'd be gone if he didn't make it to the World Series. Just making it gives him a 2 year/$16 million contract. I think the Yankees did all they could. He would still be making almost twice what any manager in baseball made. If it's about the money, good riddance and thanks for the memories.

I'm not a Torre supporter as a manager, but I still have the utmost respect for him as a person. The guy exudes class and dignity and grace. My heart breaks for him. I do think it was time for a change, but it's still bittersweet. The organization is losing a man who has meant so much to so many.

Good luck Joe.

Joe has made tons of money over the years, and a 2 million dollar paycut is insulting to the man? F*ck him.

If you are a stock broker making 2 times more than any other stock broker in history and your company tanks for 4 straight years and they ask you to take a pay cut but still be the highest paid in the business, that's an insult?

This is a Business Plain and Simple. If you don't your Job, you get fired. It's three straight years Yankees lose Alds playoffs. They could fire Joe torre back then when they lose Redsox in 2004? I don't see any Articles you wrote about Redsox when The Redsox fire Jimmy Williams and Grady Little back then? Grady Little was fired from his job because He lost Alcs and left Pedro too long in game 7? Grady Little was great Manager but Redsox hired Terry Francona.

What team in baseball are going to offer him $5+ million to manage? Good for him if he gets it, but I doubt he will.

If a certain contingent of the front office wanted Torre gone, which is obvious by today?s machinations, than they should have taken advantage of the situation presented by last season?s playoff loss. The Yankees were heavily favored, summarily destroyed, and Torre managed one of the worst playoff series in baseball history. From the bizarre game 4 lineup, to inexplicably batting A-Rod sixth, for the first time all season, in game one of the playoffs [good confidence boost] Torre was flat brutal in the ?06 Division Series. If Randy Levine and others wanted a change, that was the time. This just looks weak. The case just isn?t strong. And while the team turning around had more to do with the stabilization of the rotation, and the awakening of Abreu and Cano [factors not really involving Torre] the man deserved credit for keeping the team together when yes, they did look dead. I was there, I remember.

2004 ALCS game 3: 19-8 Yanks

I guarantee you that all the Sox trolls on this blog right now were the same Sox fans who threw in the towel in 2004 when the Yanks scorched them in game 3 19-8. The true fans knew they still had a shot just as true Rox fans know the bats could come alive against Schilling tomorrow. Don't lose faith! These guys are too resiliant not to come back strong tomorrow.

If the Sox are going to have a huge double digit run game, might as well be with Beckett on the mound. They're just wasted runs.

We'll see how the series goes when Manny has to cover twice as much ground at Coors with his lazy fielding style and Ortiz has to guard the line.

I miss when Boston was the fun little team to root for against the hated Yankees. Boston fans have turned in the very thing they hated -- Evil Empire part deux, where money tries to buy championships.

Colorado Rockies Fan,

You speak some wisdom. Remember how the Braves blew out the Yankees in games 1&2 in 1996 only to win it.

I hope my boys don't underestimate them now and keep the foot on the pedal.

As for our transformation... I've rooted for the Red Sox when they were losers and now when they are the mean bully.

MAN it is SO MUCH MORE FUN to be the mean bully!

I love rooting for the bad guys!

The sweep has started......just like it would have if we played the overpaid under achieving Yankees in the ALCS. Losers!

Anon,

Why are you always comparing the Yankees situations with the old Red Sox situations? Are you jealous? Oh no thats right you feeble minded Yankee fans all think that those who aren't Yankee fans are Red Sox fans because thats your weak way of reasoning.

I happen to be rooting for the Rockies to wins this thing. But now just to tick you off it would be nice if Boston won again....for the second this century....as your team has not won even once although being favored every year.... and has no vision of doing so in the near future....

But Hank sounds good talking out his butt!

Nudge rules. Go Sox!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21457366/wid/11915773?gt1=10514

The above link is the top story on Msn.com and strangely features Yankee announcer Suzyn Waldman ranting about her crying on air again.

She makes some salient points.

This is what happens when gender roles, race, religion, nation and culture are all blurred into one; confusion beyond the Tower of Babel. Women want to be men. Men look at horror at them. It's sad.

Suzyn talks about her anger and sarcasm and how being an angry woman in the clubhouse makes a gal seem tough.

The article says that out of control, angry women are usually seen as deeply mentally disturbed.

Poor Suzyn, she is only human. Who can say who can cry and when?

For this story to be at the top of Msn.com's homepage with Suzyn in it is a big accomplishment for her. They even mention her Newsday article on the subject.

Who's Jealous? Look who's talkig and look at the Mirror Nudge, What are you doing in Yankees Blog, and your troll, please go back to Redsox blog where ever you came from?

What's matter Nudge? Your Obsess and concern with Yankees Offseason moves, that you be whore and b*itch in Yankees blogs?

Who's Jealous? Look who's talking and look at the Mirror Nudge, What are you doing in Yankees Blog, and your troll, please go back to Redsox blog where ever you came from?

What's matter Nudge? Your Obsess and concern with Yankees Offseason moves, that you be whore and b*itch in Yankees blogs?

Yankees 26 Redsox 6.. Whahaha,,

Spoiled Arrogance are Redsox Fans and Bostons Fans.. The Redsox won in 2004, yet they still moaning and groaning that One championship is not enough... Enough with Redsox mentality that They're Underdogs. The Celtics won 16 championships and Pats won 3 supebowls , How would you feel as Jets and Knicks Fans like myself who never won a championships near fourty years. The Redsox are new Evil Empire thanks to Larry "Lucifer" Lucchinno. The Yankees have homegrown players than Redsox. Redsox are bunch of Mercanaries on their team. Don't tell Big Papi and Manny came up from Redsox Farm system. Also, Lugo, Jd Drew, Beckett, Matsuzaka, Crisp, Lowell [former Yankees farmhand]. I think Jason Varitek "aka Captain of Redsox" should not be captain instead of Trot Nixon which Redsox management decided not to resign.

The Red Sox are obsessed with the Yankees while Yankee fans are merely REACTING TO Red Sox fans. Who started with the anger and hatred and obsession? Who has more reason to envy the other team? Obviously the Red Sox have more reason to envy the Yankees and have been doing so for 100 years. So the Red Sox won in 2004 and are in the World Series. Big deal. It's not enough for the Yankees fans to envy and obsess over them more than Baltimore or Toronto or the Angels. The Red Sox started this relentless obsession while the Yankees are defending themselv. After all, when someone despises you and tries to hurt you and is obsessed with pulling you down, just because you're better than they are, it's natural to defend yourself and react with anger. And that's exactly what's happening between the Yankees and Red Sox. But the Red Sox started this 100 years ago and haven't let up since.

__________________________________________________

Get him Nudge! Go Sox!

Mr.Nudge, your Under arrest, I have your ip. Please bothering Yankees Fans in these Newsday or else....

Nudge my erudite Lindenhurt museum boycotting friend,

The Yanks and the Sox have essentially the same plan which isn't always about baseball ...

Globalized teams at all costs, first and foremost for social engineering and as cultural change agents. (See Igawa over Lilly as an example of a great "baseball and business decision.")

Business with the animals running down the people in Mainland China. (The only two teams to set up baseball shop in Red China, our mortal enemy in their own words. Sickening really.)

Dominica. (No problem, very nice nice people!)

East Asia. (Mice-K! Okajima, Godzille, Igawa).

Global Marketing. (Money!)

Hi prices. (Sox fans being driven to AAA Pawtucket games according to the USA Today.)

Hi revenue. (Money!)

The New York Times own the Boston Globed who in turn have a vested interest in the Red Sox. This is where their global baseball vision gets it's almost religious fervor.

The Red Sox are winning because their GM has made far less mistakes than Cashman. Even JD Drew may pan out. You shouold have seen him with the Cardinals. He was amazing. It is like he has been kidnapped or something. Maybe he lost his confidence.

But the Yanks are more cleancut. No baggie uniforms, ugly facial hair, Manny showboating at the plate with an HR that still leaves the team 4 runs down, Manny's in game IPod in the outfield, foreign language ads, cutting off Ted Williams' head and freezing it like a Dove Bar, the in game dating show, parading the Rising Sun around the field, pink bats and the rest of the (your word here) spectacle.

The worst part of the Sox success is that others will try to imitate them. People are essentially followers. Look at the tattoo mania as exhibit one.

But the Red Sox are still a very good team. You can't say they wasted a third or more of their payroll as we did with Moose, Clemens, Abreu (first half), Meyers, Farns, Damon and Giambi.

They and the Yanks to me in many ways are clones. The only difference is George S. kept out some of the above mentioned influences from the Yanks.

But they are everywhere in society. Just look around. The country of our youth has been erased and replaced with something approaching barbarism culturally speaking.

I expect the Yanks to try and copy the Red Sox way of doing things more and more and more.

How 'bout them Sox!!

If that line up continues to bang out hits at such an overwhelming rate....aint no one gonna stop them.

Havent had much time to hang in here folks...too busy watching the Sox play baseball....but for what it is worth....my vote is for Giradi. In my opinion, the Yanks would be making a mistake if they name Mattingly or Pena manager.

Pena impressed me with his comments that experience leak right out with his comments but i guess he is just a token and no way The Yankees put a minority in the seat ,That right there may upset an mariano or alex or posada more than letting joe go blatant acts can be more damaging.

Here's why Mattingly is the wrong choice, and a bad choice. What if he falls flat on his face as a manager? The possibility is a strong one...lets face it, he has no experience, and the Yanks are a team in need of a stable hand that can help the youngsters along, work with the ego's of the veterans, and develop and use the pitching staff wisely. Mattingly aint that guy....and if the Yanks make the mistake of naming him manager, and THEN have to fire him after he fails.....imagine what a pr disaster that would be.

Mattingly is a Yank icon....he should remain as such...but he is not ready to be the manager of the Yankees, or any other MLB team.

How did Willie Randolph turned out with Mets , no managing experience whatsoever?

How do you know Mattingly can't manage? Did you sleep with him?

Mr Observer, Please stop already, Your clueless and Redsox Fan....

Here's my question to those who feel Mattingly "isn't ready" to be the manager.

Who are we to judge whether he is ready or not?

The guy has been a student of the game for over 20 years and has forgotten more about baseball than any of us will ever know.

He also learned under some of the most brilliant baseball or managerial minds in the last couple of generations: Billy Martin, Lou Piniella, Stick Michael, Buck Showalter, Joe Torre, and yes, Yogi Berra.

Do you not think he picked up a thing or two from these guys along the way?

Education is extremely important in any field. Just like how all Yankee fans wanted Hughes, Kennedy, Joba, and all the other young arms to follow Mo, Pettitte, and Clemens around during the season to absorb as much info as possible.

Mattingly is no dummy. The guy has been a manager in training for the last 4 years under Torre and knows all of his players well.

I have no doubt he will be a great manager.

You cannot compare willie and Don cannot do that!

Willie never left baseball had a longer career and immediatley went into coaching in which he won WS as a player and as coach so the experience is there. he even coached during mattingly's last few years.
If there was a time for Donny to coach I would say it should have been 96 his energy level was high in that 95 playoff

As much as you blast Casual, are you thinking perhaps you can be just as bais in being a Donny fan based on his star player qualities or your preference on him being a Yankee great.

When Girardi was on the staff he got in players cases if they was wrong

So did Willie

So did Pena

So did Bowa

political approach with players like Giambi who only until the last weeks of the season was told he would be primarly on the bench by Torre and in Giambi's response you can tell he was not thrilled but kept a cool answer , the new manager has to be tough and bench the Giambi's regardless if that player is upset or not.

Viper,
Well said and I couldn't agree more, as a matter of fact I was typing the very same response when I decided to refresh my screen before posting.
I love the way people act like Mattingly has been selling cars for the past 30 years of his life and decided to give baseball a shot for kicks. The man has played ball and been involved for his whole life, I'd say he knows a thing or two about the game. He earned the respect of every player he played with and he was on some teams with ridiculous personalities in the locker room in the most intense media market in baseball yet like I said, all his former teammates not only respect him but they adore him and even the writers love him. Read the story in yesterday's NY Post about Mike Gallego recalling Mattingly's work ethic, even while in pain with back problem.
The man's nickname is Donnie BASEBALL, not Donnie SALESMAN- nobody will work harder to be a great manager.

Great players do not often make great managers. There are some exceptions to the rule...but not that many.

Hey, from my perspective, as a Sox fan, go ahead and name Mattingly manager...and if I'm wrong, so what?....but if I'm right, it will just prove to be more entertainment for Sox fans, as well as Mets fans, and more misery for Yank fans.

Giradi is a sharp young manager who has proved his ability to manage. He is the clear choice if the Yanks want to make a surge.

Bomber,
Donnie hasn't managed, that's true. He also hasn't managed a team that lost a 7.5 game lead in two weeks. Willie is not such a good manager so there is no need to keep trying to compare them, we're hoping Donnie is a lot better than Willie.
I still love Willie and hope for the best for him, but he ain't Casey Stengel.

How did Girardi prove so much that he can be a great manager? He had one season! He had a team that over achieved for one season and he got himself fired. I'm sorry but that is hardly a glowing resume. Sure, we can blame the owner of the Marlins or the GM, but the fact is the man couldn't get along and the team fired him even though they realized they would look silly but to them it was worth it so I say there had to be more to that story than we all know.

The team itself will dictate how well the Yankees do. Is Terry Francona some genius? Far from it! He just happens to have a good team and he's not messing it up, that's all. He wouldn't even have the job if he wasn't Schilling's buddy from Philly.

Oakland's Billy Beane is the only GM who has had to replace a playoff manager twice in the past 11 years, and both times he brought in a first-time skipper.

“It all depends on the person," Beane said about going with a first-timer. “Buck Showalter was a first-time manager (with the Yankees) and I consider him a successful major league manager. I will not make a blanket statement about a first-timer. Look at Theo (Epstein), his first job as a GM was in Boston and now he is in his second World Series. It takes a unique individual to manage in New York and succeed whether they have no experience managing or 15 years managing."

No but in that you cannot compare the two. The bottom line is that Willie still lead a team , the issue is not that the Question was Willie and Donnie's Entry levels as equal and that is not true Willie never left the game and coached for over 10 years.

Willie may have choked ..

What did Torre do in 04??

not only did he lose the games but outside of one game all the games was winnable

Well Jim A.,

I"m not going to debate the issue further....I just offered my two cents worth.

I believe that Giradi proved what sort of manager he would be in his stint, and that, imo, is exactly the type of manager the Yanks need at this point. I am not denigrating Mattingly at all...he was an incredible player, but he does not have any experience, and to have ones first managerial position as the skipper of the NY Yankees is not exactly a prudent move. As I said...there is much more to lose, than there is to gain...for both the Yankees and Mattingly. If Giradi fails...fire him...no one is gonna be all that upset. If Mattingly fails....yikes!...the city of NY would riot.

As far as Francona goes...he took his licks in Philly and learned some valuable lessons...went on to other positions where he was coaching and learning...I'd say he put his time in and the results speak for themselves. Managing in Boston is not much different than managing in NY.

Just my opinion.

ohh wait ...

I forgot Mattingly is 1-0 as a manager

Torre suspension game

Bomber,

Sigh. You still don't get it. How can we just assume how Mattingly would manage this team?

Yes, he has a laid back personality. So what? Does that mean he's a pushover too?

Mattingly has never been the man in charge so we have no idea what kind of manager he's going to be.

Under Torre, neither Willie Randolph nor Joe Girardi were getting into people's faces when they had the bench coach gig during the Torre era.

We didn't see that kind of hardass attitude from them until they got their own gigs and became the men in charge.

How are you so sure Mattingly isn't going to have that kind of fire in his belly as well?

You are simply speculating on something in which you have no idea what you're talking about.

Jim A., not a putdown of Donnie as a choice, but it's not correct he spent his whole adult life in baseball, he left and spent 6 years as a horse farmer.

Not a lifer, Jim A.

What is worse is that Red Sox fans are turning into Yankee type fans. It really is getting bad. It used to be something special to be a Sox fan. Now the fanbase is getting as loud and obnoxious as the Yankee fanbase.

This is an excerpt from Joel Sherman today on Hankie:

October 25, 2007 -- BOSTON - Hank Steinbrenner really needs to stop talking publicly or he really needs to begin saying stuff that is not, well, dumb.

Yesterday on the way into Legends Field, the Boss Jr. offered this gem about the next Yankees manager: “The most important thing is, whoever we hire, give him a chance because he's not getting the '96 Yankees. He's getting a younger team, and for the most part, it's a transition period, so give him a little while."

For the record, with a rookie shortstop (Derek Jeter) and two second-year pitchers (Andy Pettitte and Mariano Rivera), the 1996 Yankees (Joe Torre's first team) were younger on average than the 2007 Yankees (Torre's last one). So whoever is the 2008 manager is almost certain to get a more seasoned team than Torre received in his first year. Also, Torre had to break in a slew of players this year, including Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy, so the next manager does not have to introduce the top prospects to the majors.

Nevertheless, while breaking in these players, Torre was held to the standard of winning a World Series; Hank Steinbrenner is now telling us to give Torre's successor “a chance" because “it's a transition period."

In actuality, Hank should hold Torre's successor to the Torre level. Because, like Torre for 1996, whoever is the next Yankees manager is going to be handed a playoff team, like Buck Showalter handed Torre.

Observer,
Bob Melvin was a first time manager and he did okay this season right? The Yanks also got lucky with another first timer in Showalter.

Mattingly was a great player, but he was not a naturally gifted player, he worked his butt off to make himself a good player and to me there's a difference between that kind of star and a guy who has been given gifts of natural talent to build on. Heck, just look at Mattingly's body type- long neck, short legs, he doesn't look like a ballplayer and was told that many times as a young player but he kept working and I think he'll bring that desire to managing.

If he fails, he'll be fired and he knows that and if he is willing to take the risk and the Yanks see something in him to make them want to hire him, I'm behind that.

Bomber- Mattingly didn't totally leave the game after retirement, he was a spring training instructor for a few years as well.

It's a tough debate and no candidate is perfect and I'll be happy with any of the three they've interviewed.

If Giradi fails...fire him...no one is gonna be all that upset. If Mattingly fails....yikes!...the city of NY would riot.

I would love to see people on here debate the truth to the above statement by Cas.

That is what makes me the most nervous, The Idea of hiring one you cannot fire without backlash regardless of result.

Another thing I was told was this,

In hiring of Mattingly the Yankee higher ups would be saved from public backlash if this team does not make it because the public would be reserved in placing blame on the manager and therefor accepting of failure. the Patience speech could also be a prelude of a mattingly hiring again in hiring Mattingly the margain of failure is more acceptable due to the people's love for him, however if Girardi is managaer or pena the public/ Press bais would be extreme.

mattingly would be hired to manage and be a smoke screen for the rookie owners. He will also be a crowd sedater from their obsession with him.

Great players do not often make great managers. There are some exceptions to the rule...but not that many.

---------------------------------

There's actually a reason for that.

Let me counter that with a question of my own....

How many great players have wanted to be a manager and got his chance?

We should make a list of those players.

Ted Williams always comes up, but who else?

Showalter coached in the Minors ,had a pretty good record then became 3b coach.

The genuis nature of Stick brought him up.

That is why I'm led to beleive the best canidate went to the Royals. after really thinking about it

Bomber,
They don't know NY fans. If Mattingly loses a game by making a bad decision, the boo birds are coming out. These are the fans that have booed Jeter, Rivera, A-Rod (relentlessly) and Pettitte.

They also don't know the NY writers who will see it as a challenge to get a NY icon fired.

This is the risk Donnie is taking and I'm sure he is not blind to the facts.

Good point BB,

Mattingly WOULD likely "buy more time" as far as getting to the WS. There are certainly some pretty big question marks to answer. Posada, Mo, Pettitte are all unanswered question marks at this point. The possibility of three rookies in the starting rotation...etc. The Yanks may need a year to finish the makeover.

I agree, Bomber, the whole 'patience' speech could only have been made with Mattingly in mind as the next Yankees manager.

Now let's see if Cashman cooperates, gives up his alleged preference for Girardi, and puts up Mattingly's name.

We are in trouble.... Hank is bad news.

I read a column on hank yesterday.

There were quotes like "be patient" and "alot of young guys on this team" , and "we arent stupid enough to think we can win every year".

Sounds like the money being put in this team is going to evaporate. Hank was never into the Yankees to begin with and is only doing this because of his fathers condition. He had avoided working alongside his father for many years.....And now....

He takes over a Yankee team he probably cares little about on the inside.

George opened his wallet because he LOVED the yankees as much as you and me.

For hank, this may turn into a money making project. If I were you I would be a little worried about all this.

The first salvo will be letting Arod walk. You will see this happen. And second will be not getting Santana.
Welcome to the new ownership.

I had to laugh about that remark of him saying it's a transition year. A transition year is when a team starts letting the veterans all go and go with the younger guys. I look at the Yankee ballclub and they are still mostly veterans there. Jeter, Giambi, Damon, Matsui, Mussina and the guys that will get signed (Posada and Rivera) and if A-Rod comes back and Pettitte decides to play another year, it's still a contending team unless he knows something we don't and he is just going to let everyone go or trade them.

I am worried....as I've said many times before, where was Hank over the past 24 years? On a horse farm? Horse racing can be fun I guess, but when your father owns the greatest franchise in sports, I don't know how you could stay away from that. The ONLY reason why Hank is back is because Swindal got himself into trouble with the law and with his wife, otherwise he'd still be shoveling horsesh!t down on the farm.

Anyone who thinks that Hank knows what he's doing has another think coming.....he is going to look at the bottom line, as far as I'm concerned. Why does he definitely want Joba in the starting rotation? Not because he's one of the best pitchers we have, but because HE'S CHEAP. What's Joba's salary? Minimum wage? Imagine getting the next Clemens for minimum wage. He probably never heard of Joba until a month ago.

Sure we're going to have to be patient....the way Hank wants to run the team, it could be YEARS before we smell the playoff field. And it has nothing to do with the manager...

The quote about "we aren't stupid enough to think we can win every year" is an insult to his father. George expected us to get to the World Series every year and put his money where he mouth is. Don't know if Hank will do the same.

I don't think the quote in itself isn't realistic...it's just that Hank seems to have two sets of standards....one for Torre and one for the next manager. I never remember George telling the fans to be patient because of a new manager...heck, he was the one with the revolving manager door, not us. Now we're being told that we are in a transition and to be patient. If you go back to the 80s and early 90s, every year could have been called a transition year.
What a crock of .......

Viper,

Regarding your last post....

It occurs to me that alot of successful MLB managers used to be MLB catchers. I think the connection is obvious. A catcher is in effect the "on field" manager, and his career is defined by the way the he works with the pitching staff.

More reason to hire Giradi, eh?

Viper...

Randolph and Girardi did get into people faces Viper and I do know what I'm talking about.

Randolph - SORAIANO , KNOBLAUCH took both aside and got at them

Girardi - was said to come at many players who was slumping and held back on some due to Torre.

Once again nobody is saying how the F**k Mattingly is going to do mutherFF so shut the f**K up I told you once about your comments I'm telling you point blank the team is fearing hiring of a PUBLIC RELATIONS COMFORTER rather than a straight up manager the public wants mattingly and the main reason he will get hired is too shut the f**K up of people like you and save the Yankee Brass ass's he will be hired I feel that he will be hired becasue he is a public saftey net and a Yankee ledgend and we all will hope he does well the issue is if he cannot do the Job what would be the case and anyone should have the right to reserve that thought I told you about your comments I laid back in my response. Sorry for the profanity but i told you if you gonna debate do it like an adult or we can get gritty together.

Mattingly will be hired I can feel it the team will be ok. But there is those who are saying we are letting possible better canidates walk just to SOOTHE the public and not the better of the team. proove them wrong , because at the end of the day I'm a yankee fan

Hello all. I am sorry to disagree with most of you but I think Girardi is the man. Not only does Donnie not have the experience but think of the PR mess that would occur if the Yanks had to fire Mattingly. Everybody keeps saying that Girardi does not have that much more experience, but 1 year of experience is better then none, especially for the most high profile team in baseball. Being the Manager of the Yankees is not an on the job training type of position. Also everybody keeps mentioning Girardi's issues with Management. Well I think you have to but heads with management every once in a while or they will walk all over you which I think will happen with Mattingly. Just my opinion.

Yogi -

Frank Robinson

Larry Dolby

Bob Boone

Lou Pinella

Willie Randolph.

Pete Rose

and others who could'nt make it past coaching.

some on the list is not Great players .. Willie and Bob Boone, Lou the ohters were

Dog,
The Yanks hired Buck and he had no MLB experience.

Sure, butting heads with management is cool but when you get yourself fired over it, it just shows you may not be that smart.

Observer- good point on the catcher/manager subject, I posted something like that last week as it seems the good ones were catchers. That's why I'd rather the Yanks just somehow steal Scioscia away from The California/Anaheim/LA/Orange County Angels.

Aaron Boone has a blast in visit to Fenway

[quote]
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2007/10/25/2007-10-25_aaron_boone_has_a_blast_in_visit_to_fenw.html

BOSTON - Aaron Boone kept his head down yesterday as he walked on Yawkey Way toward Fenway Park. The ex-Yankee, who broke thousands of New England hearts when he slugged a series-ending homer in Game 7 of the 2003 ALCS, didn't want to find out what kind of reception he would get on the streets of Beantown.

But he seemed comfortable on the field during batting practice before last night's Game 1 of the World Series between Colorado and Boston. He is at the Series as an analyst for CBS Sportsline, "breaking down the game, using my expertise" on video, Boone said. "Pretty good gig."

Boone, who played for the Marlins this year, came back to Fenway a few times when he was with the Indians in 2005-06 and got what he called "a good, solid, healthy boo. Nothing violent or angry, just a good, solid visitor's welcome.

"They won the Series (in 2004), so I think it's water under the bridge. (The homer) is just part of the story. If they had never won it, it might be a little different."

While talking with a handful of reporters, Boone delivered some strong baseball opinions. When he was asked about Hanley Ramirez, his teammate this past season and one of the players the Sox traded for Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell, Boone said, "He's the most talented guy in the game. Maybe A-Rod, then Hanley.

"You'd be hard-pressed to find a guy who can do more than Hanley. Incredible bat speed, can run like the wind. Now it's developing those intangibles, winning-type player thing. The sky is the limit for him."

MAINTAINING ORDER: Ryan Spilborghs served as the Rockies' DH last night. He hit ninth in the order, which Rockies manager Clint Hurdle suggested was partly designed to not disrupt Colorado's regular lineup. Hurdle added that keeping catcher Yorvit Torrealba eighth made sense.

Unfortunately for the Rockies, Spilborghs went 0-for-2 while Torrealba was 0-for-3.

"I get usable speed (with Spilborghs) in front of the two guys that can run and really put the ball on the ground," Hurdle said, referring to Nos.1 and 2 hitters Willy Taveras and Kaz Matsui. "But continuity and normalcy have really been huge for this ballclub. The last thing you want to do is throw out a lineup where the players walk out and go, 'What's he doing?' - especially at this point in the year." ...Boston manager Terry Francona said the health of David Ortiz's knee is going to be the biggest factor in determining whether Ortiz plays first base or becomes a pinch-hitter for the games in Colorado. ...The Rockies' eight-day layoff before the Series is the second-longest in history behind that of the 1910 Philadelphia Athletics, who waited 10 days to play. Since 1988, 10 teams have had a layoff of five or more days. Seven of those teams won the World Series.
[/quote]

Casual,

Exactly if they hire Mattingly and he does not make it , Ownership will say "WE HIRED THE GUY YOU WANTED SO BE PATIENT AND SHUT THE BLEEP UP"

If you hire Girardi . Pena or who ever and they lose People Like viper will say

YOU SHOULD HAVE HIRED MATTINGLY

Jim,

At least Buck managed in the minor's. Donnie has not managed at all. Also when I meant "butting heads" with management, I meant not letting them take hold of the team. I think Mattingly will be just a figure head for managements and do what ever they want with the team and the players. That is what I meant. Look I love Mattingly but I don't think he has the experience, personality or the balls to manage this team. He will be eaten alive by the management, press and the fans. Like I said that is just my opinion. If he is hired, I hope I am totally wrong. We will see.

Scioscia is hands down the best game time manager in the game today....one has to wonder what he would do with a team that had a little more depth and offensive firepower.

I'm not going to bother responding to that ranting mess, Bomber.

But it would be a good idea to learn English if you want to continue to rumble.

Frank Robinson has been a successful manager. Same with Sweet Lou. We'll never know how good of a manager Rose was because he got kicked out of baseball. Bomber already says Willie is a great manager.

My point is this....

Yes, it's true that not a lot of great players have been great managers. But not whole lot of them ever get a chance to manage either.

Come on already...sheesh...this Hank bashing is idiotic, it's mindless. If Hank said we must win the WS every year or we are failures everyone would complain he's as harsh as his dad and unrealistic. He states a clear truth that can't be denied and he's criticized. His words are being picked apart and analyzed by people who think they are psychologists but they have no clue. Save your harsh judgments until you've seen him actually operate the team -- which is all that really matters in the end, don't you think?

Jim -

Buck was said to be a very good motivator and the Future stars knew him. He played with donnie in Minors and had a very good record as manager of the Minors.

This was what they was seeing in Trey Hillman

kNOW WHAT VIPER

Check this out this is where I'm at we can meet right here on river avenue

you cannot miss me I already have yankee people laughing right now as they are watching me respond to you.

meet me in the bronx and I;ll be sure to let the neighborhood people know about your english comments ok tough guy?

like I said if your going to debate with me debate with me for who I am A GROWN ASS MAN ok??

poof

It occurs to me that alot of successful MLB managers used to be MLB catchers. I think the connection is obvious. A catcher is in effect the "on field" manager, and his career is defined by the way the he works with the pitching staff.

------------------------------

I've been a big fan of baseball for a long time so I'm well aware of the whole "catchers make great managers" argument.

For every successful manager you can name (who were catchers), I'll give you 2 names who weren't catchers and had success as managers.

Last I checked, Eric Wedge never played a game of pro ball at any position.

Dog,
How can we just presume that Donnie doesn't have the experience, personality or the balls to manage this team? We haven't seen him on his own yet. He was not going to rock Joe Torre's boat because it wasn't his job to do so. The man handled the media, players and management just fine when he was a player, even while occasionally butting heads with management.

I have been on record on this blog as saying I hoped Girardi would be the pick but the more I see from the Yanks, the more I believe it will be Mattingly so I think we just need to stay positive about it and get behind him.

Bomber,
I know Buck was seen as a good motivator etc. I also remember when Mattingly was playing how people would say he was practically a manager on the field and what a good leader he was. I guess we'll see soon enough!
Maybe they'll stun all of us and hire Davey Johnson!

Viper,

You would be wrong about Wedge...he was a catcher...was drafted by the Sox and played one year for them, before going in the expansion draft where he played for several more seasons.

Um, you're the guy cussing me out with your last post and continue to make little sense.

Only an immature punk would challenge someone to a brawl on a stupid blog.

Besides, I live in the Midwest and probably twice your size.

Don't bother responding to anything I post again. You obviously can't rely on logic to save your life.

Observer is right Vipe, Wedge did play for a while.

While on the subject of Wedge, isn't it funny how at this time last year Wedge and Clint Hurdle were both considered the two worst managers in the game. Now they are golden boys. That's what having something to work with will do for your reputation.

Lots of blue faces around here trying to predict whose better for the job -- Girardi or Mattinging...but it's a gamble either way. The methods used to select the best candidate are not based only on experience and most of the things people here are talking about. They'll have questions they want answered in a preferable way presenting different what-ifs, they will look at body image, eye contact, confidence, enthusiasm...there will be a lot of questions about what these guys would have done in past games and what they will do in future situations... Don't think these guys will just be chosen only on their experience...there are other interviewing factors that will be considered and you won't hear a thing about them.

Jim,

I personally don't want a guy to have to "on the job training" while he is managing the Yankees. I feel he should manage in the minors first. As for his leadership skills, he was always portrayed as a guy who lead by example. That is fine with veterans but not with young players. Also, I don't know Donnie personally but from what I see in his interviews, he seems way to mellow and laid back. Just like Joe. A change is needed for a more exciting and motivating manager. By the way; I see and agree with your points also. I just feel Girardi is the man right now. Being a Yankee fan I hope whoever they choose succeeds.