On the Yankees beat

It seems almost inevitable that the Yanks will trade Hughes (along with Melky and another prospect, probably Tabata) for Santana -- and that's pretty sad.

The Mets are kidding themselves; they don't have the prospects to get this done. The only decent pitching prospect they have is Pelfry, and he's not getting it done. Milledge hasn't lived up to the hype and Gomez is years away.

The Red Sox will act as though they will trade their top prospects for Santana, but it's only to make sure the Yankees give up as much as possible.

Nice read Kat!

Cano's name shouldn't even be mentioned in any trade scenario , imo. He has the ability to possibly win a batting title or two and has steadily fielded his position much better as he matures. My only gripe with him is his failure to run out ground balls.

I honestly don't want to see any of the 'young guns' traded but if they do please leave Joba and Hughes out of it....PLEASE!

anything for an ace pitcher. so cano could win a batting title. that doesnt help you win a world series. and the chances that hughes joba and kennedy will all be aces is zero. get over it and get an ace when you have the chance.

I've had a few responses to my question about what they see as Plan B from the no-to-Santana contingent and so far everyone has agreed that their fallback position is 'stand pat' with a rotation made up of pieces we already have plus Pettitte if he returns.

So far no one advocates passing on Santana but then going for some other addition to our starting pitching.

I guess I'm kind of surprised. Seems like a really stark divide. Some for getting the top-of-the-line Santana at astronomical cost, some for standing pat at no cost, and nobody so far arguing for any other pitcher that looks like becoming available at some more middling expenditure of money/farmhands.

Hmm.

Wonder if NYY FO is thinking this way, or if they have some other Plan B thoughts.

Anon,

I understand your point and agree to a point. Being a good enough hitter to win a batting title means you are worth keeping. As part of a potent yankee offense that could win a WS with the current young pitchers. I feel they need a chance and the chances of all of them being aces is ofcourse unreasonable. They have untapped potential and probably would do far better backed by The Yank's offense than The Twins. Thats not a slight to the Twins , just reality.

All 3 of those kids pitcthed in The Bronx and seemingly adapted well. Hughes' injuries were the main reason he did struggle abit from time to time. Can Santana thrive in "the Boogie Down"? I am not sure one way or the other but the kids have. They also haven't thrown a ton of innings over their careers as of yet. This hopefully could lead to longer outings that have been a sore spot in recent Yankee rotations.

Anon,

I understand your point and agree to a point. Being a good enough hitter to win a batting title means you are worth keeping. As part of a potent yankee offense that could win a WS with the current young pitchers. I feel they need a chance and the chances of all of them being aces is ofcourse unreasonable. They have untapped potential and probably would do far better backed by The Yank's offense than The Twins. Thats not a slight to the Twins , just reality.

All 3 of those kids pitcthed in The Bronx and seemingly adapted well. Hughes' injuries were the main reason he did struggle abit from time to time. Can Santana thrive in "the Boogie Down"? I am not sure one way or the other but the kids have. They also haven't thrown a ton of innings over their careers as of yet. This hopefully could lead to longer outings that have been a sore spot in recent Yankee rotations.

Sorry for the double post!

I say pass then give Oakland a call

It would be nice to see Santana use that no trade clause to force the Twins to trade him to the Yanks. The Yankees would have at least some leverage in the deal if Santana were to tell the Twins he won't waive the clause to go to any other team.

It's a nice dream isn't it?

anything for an ace pitcher. so cano could win a batting title. that doesnt help you win a world series. and the chances that hughes joba and kennedy will all be aces is zero. get over it and get an ace when you have the chance.
---------------------------------------------

That's misguided logic, Anon.

The Yanks don't need an "ace" - they need “depth”. Having an ace doesn't help very much when the team has to trade away their young arms and depth to make that happen.

Santana only pitches once every five days. They need 4-5 arms that can eat innings every night to save the pen over the course of a season so that they are relatively fresh for October.

Anyone who says that the Yanks need an "ace" to win in the postseason should review the Yankee dynasty with Cone, Pettitte, Wells, El Duque, and Clemens in the rotation and the White Sox of 2005.

Clemens was never the same dominant pitcher in pinstripes that he was with the Red Sox, Jays, and even the Astros in the NL. Pettitte was always very good but never an elite or dominant starter among the likes of Pedro, Big Unit, Santana, Peavy, or Beckett.

The same can be said for Cone, Wells and El Duque during their time in pinstripes.

However, this unit as a whole was nearly unbeatable in the postseason because they had more depth than any team in the league.

The other teams' #1 was sometimes better than the Yanks #1 (Kevin Brown with SD, Pedro, Zito in his prime, Smoltz, Maddux, etc), but the Yanks would then have other horses to pick up the slack if their Game 1 starter fell on his face. Most teams with an “ace” rely way too much on their big gun and often crumble if he doesn’t pitch well because there is usually a steep decline in talent and lack of depth following him.

Depth and keeping young talent is the answer to their problems long term. Cano is on the brink of superstardom and he’s the best young player on the team. It would be beyond stupid to package him and Hughes for a guy who will be a free agent in another year.

I wrote this piece before and was looking for some feed back. PLEASE RESPOND.

Instead of us looking at Santana and throwing away our farm system for one player I suggest we focus our attention to Erik Bedard. Here's what I think:

First of all the Oreo's are looking to move Tejada and his contract immediately, I say the yanks should offer at least two top prospects and maybe one lesser one for Erik Bedard and ask them there take Tejada's entire contract as well off the Orioles hands. That way they can have some room to spend once Tejada leaves and we get our pitcher for a lesser price.

What ya think?

And just imagine if we can get Santana AND Pettitte comes back!!! Rotation could be Santana, Wang, Pettitte, Joba, and Mussina.

Chris,

Back a bit on this blog people were talking about Bedard, Peavey, Kazmir, etc. as possible alternatives. Somehow this died out except that Viper does continue to mention going after depth instead of one ACE -- however I don't know whether he is advocating for particular pitchers not named Santana or is making a more general point (sorry, Viper, my memory fails me if you have recommended specific guys to create this depth with).

BBB CHAMP-
Leave Chamberlain as "the bridge" to Mo. Santana\Pettitte\Wang\Mussina\ Kennedy would be the rotation, (assuming Hughes is in the trade for Santana). No way we trade Hughes and Kennedy in a Santana deal.

Diane

I like Bedard and Kazmir too. Either would be a great pickup. I'm not real big on guys from the NL though. Most of them (Beckett the exception) just don't seem to pan out in the AL East. I don't think we need to put all of our eggs in the Santana basket.

Pitchers like Santana don't come 'round too often. Position players are more abundant. So if you need to trade a couple of position players you do it. I can live with trading either Hughes or Kennedy -- not both -- esp. Kennedy who is unproven in the majors. But please don't trade Joba.

Roy

I like Joba in the role he played this year. It has been a sorry hole for us for a long time now and he filled it quite nicely. I have no problem leaving him as the setup man, especially if Andy comes back and we get another SP through a trade.

Diane,

I don't advocate going after any big name pitchers because it would require too many young arms in return.

The Yanks should keep the kids and wait and see what is available next year. They will have a much better idea what they have on the farm and what is available on the FA market.

Think about it. How many Yankee fans had any idea who Kennedy or Joba was a year ago? How many of us would have predicted that both of these guys would be given slots in the rotation in 2008?

Who knows what can happen. Horne could be this year's Kennedy and Melancon or Sanchez could have an impact in the pen like Joba did.

We'll know a lot more about these kids and the state of the farm in another year. Then, make a decision on a free agent pitcher if they feel that is the way to put this team over the top.

I'm not against getting Santana. I just against trading away a ton of young talent for him now when he's a year away from free agency.

It's far more important to build a stable of depth and young talent over the next 5-6 years than going for broke and making unwise decisions to win in 2008.

Rick,

Personally I'm with you in seeing a need for greater caution with NL pitchers -- it ONLY makes sense in my view if, in front, you factor in an automatic downturn in their performance following the move to the AL.

If they would still be worth it considering that drop as inevitable, then go for it, eyes open.

I guess I am not the only "chris" on the site. I agree that my same named blogger has a point in looking for alternatives, but the Orioles are not looking to just unload Tejada to the point that they would give any team a discount on Bedard. In fact the Orioles believe that they can get back a top flight AAA pitcher back for a Tejada - wishful thinking imo.

I think that these rumors floating about Kazmir and Bedard are simply out there for those teams to see if a team will greatly overpay in desperation - too bad for the Orioles that the Muts wont be in the bidding due to the non-latin heritage of both players.

I still firmly believe that when an Ace is out there - especially one that is only 28 - you have to give up a lot to get him. I am not advocating giving up the entire farm, but a deal centered around Cano is something I would do especially if it meant keeping Joba and Hughes. While there are not many great 2B out there, Cano's offense is replaceable especially next season in free agency. True, he is a star in the making, but the Yankees need for an Ace outweighs their need for the offense he provides. Getting Santana means slotting Wang in the number two slot where he belongs and gives the Yanks a top of the rotation to compete with anyone in baseball. Look what a great 1 -2 combo did to the Yanks in the ALDS.

Also, do not underplay the role that the Sox will play in this. The Yankees front office knows that if the Sox get Santana it could mean that the shift in power grows exponetially. Santana on the Yanks equals out the pitching staffs at the top leaving the back end to be decided by which remaining prospects work out.

Aces rarely become available and when they do you need to do everything you can within reason to get them. To me - Cano/Melky/Kennedy is within reason.

Here's something else to consider....

If Pettitte does return to the Yanks, the starting pitching should be considerably better than last season - with or without Santana.

Why, you ask?

The absolutely punchless combination of Kei Igawa, Tyler Clippard, Matt DeSalvo, Darrell Rasner, Jeff Karstens, Chase Wright, and Sean Henn combined for 36 starts for the Yankees last season.

Yes, 36 freaking starts.

That means the Yanks still finished with 94 wins despite 22 percent of their games started by a bunch of minor league pitchers who are nothing more than mediocre major league talents at best.

Don't you think the combination of Hughes, Joba, Kennedy, and probably Horne at some point will perform considerably better in 2008?

I certainly do. So do most Yankee fans with an ounce of common sense.

As Tim Brown pointed out on Yahoo! Sports, the Yanks have shelled out untold millions for A Rod, Posada, Mo and Abreu and we are still no better for it. Still the fourth or fifth best team in the AL. Colorado has a younger, more together on field core as well.

With all of this money going out, to A Rod and for the new stadium I am again wondering if it is wise to continue to throw around so much and waste so much (Pavano, Igawa, Farns, Mussina, Clemens -- who is gone now -- Giambi) when the economy is on the verge of a total meltdown ...

Consider the following losses ... and we know the books are cooked and the actual numbers are far, far worse most likely ...

Citigroup $9.8 billion This is the low estimate; Citi says the figure could be $3 billion higher.

Merrill Lynch $7.9 billion Analysts project that the broker will have to write down billions more this quarter.

UBS $4.4 billion UBS still has nearly $40 billion in CDOs and mortgage-backed securities on its books.

Morgan Stanley $3.7 billion Morgan's total subprime exposure after write-downs stands at $6 billion.

Wachovia $2.1 billion Wachovia was among the top issuers of subprime mortgage CDO debt this year.

Credit Suisse $948 million Credit Suisse lost nearly another $1 billion on leverage loans
.
Lehman Brothers $700 million Total includes leveraged loans; Lehman does not provide more detail.

Bank of America $3.527 billion CEO Ken Lewis is cutting back the company's investment-banking operations.

Bear Stearns* $1.65 billion Big hedge fund losses in June kicked off the subprime follies.

J.P. Morgan Chase $339 million CEO Jamie Dimon is credited with losing less than his peers.

... About 40 of the payroll last year was wasted. The Yanks have missed their chance to get lean and mean ... when things really fall apart financially in the nation, I wonder what the Yanks will do?

Should "things fall apart financially in the nation", wondering what the Yanks will do, will not even come to mind.

I haven't served and am not planning on it. I leave that to men with far more bravery and courage but I don't get this switch to "military time"

Kat can you switch it back?

Diane

Re-Plan B...

If we lose Santana to the Redsox our Plan B would have to be very bold. Since I don't believe in a Yankees philosophy that includes words like "rebuild" or "patience" or phrases like "wait till next year" and "hey fellas we got the wildcard woo hoo!!" I would think we'd be forced to put together an incredible package and get Bedard or Kazmir. Even then a rotation of Santana/Beckett/Dice K would still likely trump a Bedard/Wang/Joba..

To be honest I tend to agree with you and others that it would be best if Santana went to the NL so neither team has to ante up such a mighty sum of talent/$$$.

Oh yeah,

One more phrase I don't believe exists in the post 07 Yankees philosophy..."Stand Pat"

We lost the division for the first time in 11 yrs to our rival who won the WS "standing pat" is ridiculous IMO.

The Rays came out and publicly admitted that they would take a look at what Kazmir might be worth and they'll probably wait to see who offers what for Santana. You can imagine Baltimore is having the same thoughts about Bedard. In the local papers here in Virginia, they've said that the Orioles would trade Bedard if they could get some MLB ready talent in return, they'd want at least 3 of those types. I agree with their thinking as you have to give up something in order to get something so if the Rays or O's can re-stock their systems in exchange for one pitcher, it would be pretty smart. I'd love to see the Yanks get either one of those guys, but I'm not sure I want to see Phil Hughes coming back to haunt the Yanks in their own division!

Viper: While I agree that the pitching staff (IF Pettitte comes back) will be better than last year without making any moves, but really we just don't know. Let's face it, Joba, Hughes and Kennedy are all question marks and what are the odds of all of them being successful? As I have posted before, the last time we saw a team with three young guns is Oakland with Zito, Mulder and Hudson and it's such a rare ocurrance that I'm not sure we can bank on it. Why not trade one of them for a pitcher who has proven at the ML level that he can not only succeed, but dominate and stay healthy as well.

This is such a tough dilemma. So many question marks, like what if:

a. Yanks trade Hughes and he becomes the "little Rocket" he's been touted as?
b. They keep him and he's a bust?
c. Joba stays and fails as a starter?
d. They get Santana and he's a bust?

There's dozens more scenarios like what if you trade the wrong one? Based on last year, nobody wants to see Joba go, but what if he was a "Kevin Maas" on the mound and doesn't ever have that kind of success again?
It could be said that Joba's value may never be higher than it is right now, maybe same for Hughes.

I know this. I know Brian Cashman gets paid a helluva lot of money, but I wouldn't want to be in his shoes right now.

PTRS,

I understand your point but The Yanks had terrible injuries at the beginning of last season that dug themselve's a huge hole...one that they were fortunate to be able to overcome. I doubt the same will happen next year , hopefully. That said , claiming the wildcard was a victory in that sense.

The majority of the injury trouble was on the pitching side , forcing the use of minor leaugers. 3 seemingly panned out and there appears to be a couple more on their heels. Now dealing a few of these pitchers for one , who has had minor injury problems the past 2 years , leaves NY in the same boat as last year.

I also don't agree with getting into a trading war to keep him from Boston , that only helps Minnesota and weakens the "winner" of that scenario. There is too much young talent in the farm and on the roster to worry about giving up a bunch for one pitcher who may or may not give the NYY a WS title.

This is just my opinion and I completely understand and respect yours :-)

Jim A.,

The roster the Yanks will bring with them to NY in April will not be the same roster they have after the trade deadline and into October.

Remember, the Yanks had a rotation last April consisting of Wang, Pettitte, Moose, Pavano, and Igawa with Farnsworth as the 8th inning guy. They finished the season with a rotation of Wang, Pettitte, Clemens, Moose, Hughes, and Kennedy with Joba as the 8th inning guy.

If the Yanks need to make some roster moves to improve the team during the season - Cashman will make changes.

It’s true that a young pitching trio like Hudson, Zito, and Mulder is rare, but that doesn’t mean the Yankee trio can’t be productive. The Yanks have rarely had that much young talent come up at the same time - probably not for decades. Besides, if Pettitte returns, they will have a good blend of veterans in the rotation along with Wang and Moose. It also helps that the Yanks will give these kids a lot of run support.

Also, I think it’s going to take at least two members of the Trinity to get Santana - along with Cano - and I believe that’s insane. This team can’t get younger by trading away their best young players and replacing them with older players via the FA market and someone who won’t be able to hold Cano’s jock.

So many people point to Cano and say he’s replaceable and the team can easily sign another 2B. Well, that may be true at times, but not right now because the current market sucks @ss.

This team is getting older every year. They can’t afford to give away their best young players for a rental like Santana.

Building a stable of horses in the rotation long term and keeping the young kids is more important than going for broke and making a dumb decision out of desperation to win in 2008.

Whether the Yanks get Santana or not, they currently have a better team than the R\Sox. As long as Boston continues to have Schilling and Wakefield in the rotation, the damage inflicted on the R\Sox by these 2 "over the hill" chuckers, give the Yanks the AL East by default. Getting Santana, and Pettitte, would make the "08" season an absolute "laugher".

Viper,

I do understand and even sympathize with many of the points you're making. They are not strengthened, however, by your constantly repeating phrases such as "a rental like Santana" when every poster here without exception has said, and even repeated again and again, that all of the deals they discuss are conditional upon his signing an extension.

Can we say "straw man"? Because that's what you're arguing against.

Viper,
I have to agree with Diane. Surely you know by now that every one of us has stated more than once each that any deal for Santana is contingent upon his contract being extended for at least 5 years. I think he wants to play for the Yanks, I really do.

I agree with one of your points as well though, no way would I trade two of the "trinity" along with Cano, that is just too much to even consider.

Not entirely true, Diane.

I see a lot of posters who say that the Yanks need to get Santana no matter the cost because he is a "proven ace" and offense like Cano and an unproven young kid like Hughes is replaceable.

Admittedly, I don't read everyone's comments. Frankly, several of them are completely clueless who think Melky, Kennedy, and Horne would be enough to get him.

Also, I don't think Santana is going to sign an extension. He would be screwing himself out of a lot of money on the biggest payday of a possible HoF career.

As a free agent, his value will be higher with multiple teams bidding against each other and he can choose to play anywhere he wants.

The Yanks need to be a little wary of Santana because he's got a lot of miles on that arm. I don't think he's the savior for this team that many others do. Many big name free agents who come to NY don't often live up to expectations.

Getting the biggest fish on the market hasn't worked out too well in recent years.

Viper,

People have said or implied 'no matter the COST', yes.

Not one has said or implied, 'without an extension' -- in fact, as I (as well as Jim A.) noted above, quite the reverse.

If you are right and he will not sign up for an extension, fine, everyone here is agreed that at that point we drop out.

i have no problem packaging melky in a deal. i like him, he plays hard, but i dont know why, i get a strange feeling like hes an above average outfielder with an outstanding arm, but he doesnt seem like an extremely good hitter and the yankees have players like austin jackson and tabata in the minors already .... any thoughts?

its not a strange feeling wtf

melky is a good player but nothing special - he was exposed late in the season after having played nearly every game. he is a very very good 4th outfielder and fringe starter but nothing more. I love his hustle and spirit, but right now his trade value is as high as it will ever be because I dont see him becoming a good offesnsive player.

He has a great arm and will get better reading the ball, but he still lacks the range and speed of a true centerfielder maing him a tweener player - not fast eough for center - not enough power for the corners. Trading him now would get the yankees the most return because a lot of people are high on him.

Santana has given the Twins the "go ahead" to talk trade concerning him. Obviously, this shows he will sign long term, with the right team. He knows there are only a few teams that can pay better than $20 million per year, for at least 7 years, so why wait? He saw what happened to A-OPT, and isn't about to get in that position. He will be traded, and signed long term. I believe R\Sox fans are very worried because they know the Yanks have "better" talent to trade, and far "more" of it.

I am truly stunned by the amount of people who don't want to swing a deal for Johan ... PEOPLE, WAKE UP!!! You ate tooooo much turkey this past Thursday.
1) the guy is the single MOST DOMINATING left handed pitcher in MLB since Randy in his prime, Steve Carlton and possibly Koufax.
2) why bank on 3 young pitchers who may amount to nothing???
3) if the 3 youngsters (Joba, Phil, Ian) turn out to be EVERYTHING that everyone is predicting then what are we talking about??? Ummmm, JOHAN F-IN SANTANA!!!! So why the hell should we hope they become that when WE CAN HAVE THAT!!!!
4) After the Big 3, the Yanks still have a boat load of pitching prospects (Horne, Marquez, Betances, Cox, etc.)
5) I'd trade ANY of the Big 3 in a heartbeat for Santana (he's 28 years old) knowing that our rotation for the next 5 years will have Santana and Wang in it!!! Now back that up with these names: Pettitte (for '08), Hughes/Chamberlin/Kennedy (the 2 that are left), Horne, Marquez ... PLUS ... another FA in the next 2-3 years and you're talking about AN ABSOLUTELY DOMINATING rotation. How can you people not see that????

Here's a trade for you .... Santana for Hughes + Karstens (high value coming off World Cup), along with 2 of the following 3: Melky, Shelly Duncan (another guy whose value is high right now) or Brett Gardner (we can afford to give up him w/ Jackson and Tabata on their way). Then give Johan 7 years, $150 mill and that's that. Yanks have the YES network so they can more than afford this.

Santana can only pitch once every five days. What about the other four slots in the rotation?

If he was such a difference-maker in the postseason, his team wouldn't be 0 for 3 in the ALDS since he's been atop the Twins' rotation.

If the Yankees do trade for him ( and I hope they won't), then I guess they haven't changed at all. So much for that "we're heading in a new direction" BS.

We "R/Sox Fans" "know" nothing of the "sort", "Roy". While we "recognize" the Yanks have solid talent in their "farm" system, we, as well as most other MLB executives "believe" the Sox have as much if not more "depth", as well as 2-3 prospects with higher "ceilings" than what the Yanks can offer the Twins. In fact, it is because of this, I fear the Sox may be the "winners" of the Santana "sweepstakes" and trade away that talent.

Viper,

I think your posts are right on the mark. We all realize what Santana would bring to ANY team...but the cost may be far to prohibitive. If the Dodgers decide to make a run....he at least would be out of the AL, and not cost either the Sox or the Yanks a Kings ransom.

Yankee Bri,

Your trade idea for Santana would be just fine with me. I doubt that would get it done , with all due respect. Most scenarios I have seen , include Cano and 2 of the 3 young guns plus more. That's way too much give up whether Santana signs an extension or not. That is why so many on here are against it.

In case there are others like me without knowledge of the Minor League Equivalency system, by which players' statistics can be compared between higher and lower levels and the Bigs, here's a link to a column:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/25/sports/baseball/25score.html

Out of 29 other teams in the MLB, why is it that the Red Sox are the only team that has "representation" on this Yankees blog? -- in the persons of Casual Observer and Sully to be more precise Not even the Mets have regulars here to "keep us in our place" when we rant against them for whatever the reason. It's almost like these guys are here to make sure Yankees fans don't say anything bad about the Sox -- although I tend to think it's more because they're concerned about what the Yankees are up to. Funny how they're trying to convince us we shouldn't trade for Santana and let the Dodgers pick him up, lol -- too funny. Why should they even care about our well being?

It's always a risk signing any player -- you never know what's gonna happen -- but it's more of a risk signing unproven players at MLB level. Santana is already proven big time -- and like every other player out there he comes with risks -- but at least the UNPROVEN risk is eliminated.

Link to a lengthy interview with Hank:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/11252007/sports/yankees/serbys_sunday_qa_with____433113.htm

Santana is wise enough to know he's not getting more than $25M from any team in FA. If the Yankees offer him that much money with a four year extension I think he'll grab it. FA is not bringing him more money -- since any team that wants him will try to get him now. They're not waiting until next year and risking losing him. Most teams can't afford him and that's why they won't go after him -- either now or in FA.

Boy oh boy. Listen to these R\Sox fans squeel, as they fear the Yanks will "part" with the talent to get Santana. Boston "cannot", I repeat, "cannot" touch what the Yanks have to offer in young talent. If the Yanks are willing to give up Hughes\Melky\ a Minor leaguer\ and a lotta dough, Santana will be a Yankee. Stop the whining and conduct yourselves like champions. Theo wanted and got the "over the hill Schill". Now it's the Yanks turn to acquire an "in his prime" Ace.

Now Roy, you're gonna send Not So Casual and Not Just An Observer into a tizzy. You know he's prone to having hissy fits.

uh Roy,

It would be "squeal" not "squeel". Do you really believe that Hughes/Melkey/Minor League Prospect has more value than Crisp/Lester/Bucholz or Ellsbury? I hope the Twins think so too....

Hey Maine Hick!

Now you are the spelling police so to make yourself seem superior to all on here? You no life having , inbred , pos....why are you even on here? ALL you do is start trouble and tear apart everything concerning The Yanks while gloating about the Sox. Shouldn't you be on a Boston blog? I never really got why anyone would go on a rival team's board? Does it make you feel that you are in control for once in your life? Or is it that you really have nothing else to do but bother people on here?

This blog is for Yankee fans who like to discuss the team , it's possible dabbelings , and rumors....whether you like it or not. It's not a Red Sox blog for you to argue EVERY f#cking point! In your world NY has nothing to offer in way of prospects , hope or quality of life. We are just one big sewer , as you said on another thread , with an inferior team. Wow!!!!!!!!! All this from a Mainer , lmao!!!!!!!!!!!! Possibly West Virginia and Arkansas are below your sorry @ss state! So you might want to show some respect when on a NY blog as YOU are clearly inferior.

To the Yankee fans who actually engage this schmuck , you are no better than he and should have more pride in self and team.

Now go ahead and use grammatical and spelling errors to rip me apart , as thats all you have for a repitoire!

Yankee Bri

You are right on the money about Santana. You have stated EXACTLY what I said about him two weeks ago. The MAXIMUM POTENTIAL of any of our kid SP would be to equal a Santana, so we have the power of knowing we maximized that kid's potential by trading him for Santana. I see it clearly. But, alas, as you also stated, there are many on here that need to wake up! Good luck on that one. You'd have better luck talking to a fence post.

Once in a while I stumble into the post an ignorant hate-spewer but luckily I have a good memory for monikers so I never have to read their garbage again.

Rick,

Fence post here ;-). Lol, just kidding ;-)!

The names that are being thrown around for Santana are the problem. Not only the names but the amount of talent that is being discussed , or at least rumored.

Yankee Bri's trade scenario would be welcomed by myself and I am sure most on here. The trouble is that scenario doesn't get it done or at least now.

Again and again, I have to agree with Viper on this, although I can certainly see the other side of the debate. I just don't think that Santana is going to forego free agency, so no deal will get done (unless he has a team that he really, secretly wants to go to, he tells the Twins that and a deal is agreed to that he's happy about - in which case, the Twins of course are at a great disadvantage - and the team trading for him can get off 'light' in chips they have to give up; an unlikely scenerio, it seems to me.)

If he goes to FA, then I'm all for spending whatever it takes. In that case it's only dough, and the Steins print that stuff in YS.

Otherwise, I'd rather the temptation just go away, and I'd be just as happy to see him go to LA or anywhere else in the NL. Personally, I'd much rather see a Yankee team built from the Yankee farm. But I know darn well that if the Bosox bid on him that Yanks will have to, too. And I think that the winner of that bid is going to get cleaned out.

yanks61,

Very well said!

P.S. I don't know if anyway has mentioned this, but there's a great interview of Hank Steinbrenner in today's NYPost. Rick will be especially happy because Hank calls Martin a genius - one of the greatest managers ever (along with Durocher!)

Frankly, while I loved Billy as a player (a gutsy guy who gave it everything he had, every time out), there are lots of baseball mavens who feel he had a tendancy to destroy pitching staffs (see Oakland A's.) I thought, myself, that Billy was the kind of guy who excelled at coming in and righting a floundering ship with his drive and enthusiasm, but who then wore out his welcome. He was on high speed all the time and most players just can't relate to that for very long. But, like I said, I loved the guy, major flaws and all. By the way, Rick, I also had the pleasure of meeting Billy when he was managing Texas. Super guy to talk to, down to earth and kind. But boy, put a uniform on him and he became something else. Kind of like what I heard about Jack Dempsey; a mauler in the ring, a gentleman outside it.

From Serby's Q & A with Hank Steinbrenner -

Q: Billy Martin?

A: Genius. One of the two greatest managers in the history of the game from all the old-timers I've talked to - Billy and Leo Durocher.

That's all I need to know about Hank. He'll be just fine!

I spotted this comment on another blog and wanted to share this with everyone here. The guy (at the bottom) is always a very astute commentator and I think he really has nailed it with these remarks.

"FOUND THIS IN BUSTER BROWN’S BLOG ON ESPN:

And it’s possible that within three or four years, as Santana gets older and Hughes progresses, that Hughes might become something close to what Santana will be then. And you could say the same for Clay Buchholz"
______________________________________________________
"And this exactly why NYY shouldn’t pay the cost in players. The monetary cost in salary and replacement players would reach 250 million to try and get two players to replace Cano and Cabrera,along with paying Santana, plus losing the top two draft picks. In players alone, that’s 6 top level players plus the money."

http://www.madein1903.com/forum/

Realist

IF the trade were something like Bri stated, I think it is well worth it. Personally, I keep Joba, but no matter what ONE of the big three we give up, he would = MAXIMUM POTENTIAL = Santana. Then you throw in Melky to replace Hunter, and some other odds and ends that we don't really have to keep = Karstens and/or a Tabata, etc. I'm just saying that IF you get a Santana, then you can give up a top notch prospect like a Hughes or Joba because at their MAX, the best they could ever do is = Santana. Melky is an exciting player, but he is not Mickey Mantle. He is expendable, especially for the best SP in the AL.

yanks61

Again, EVERYONE on here for the deal has stated that it is only on the condition that Santana sign an extension. It is sort of a GIVEN as part of any deal. Please think of it that way when you see these "proposed" deals.

Realist,

Thanks. I know that there are a number of us out there who have misgivings about a deal for Santana. At this point, it's also posible, by the way, that the Twins are bluffing in what they'll really be willing to settle for ultimately. I think their expected initial demands may scare off a lot of potential bidders, including the Yanks and Sox. Perhaps only the Mets would be tempted to go overboard considering Omar's need to try to compensate for the Met's collapse.

Again, all this speculation is for naught if Santana is not interested.

Well, good evening all. Enjoy the rest of your day back there in the good ole U.S. of A!

Rick,

I understand that. But look at my post at 12:37 in which I quoted from a guy on another blog;

"FOUND THIS IN BUSTER BROWN’S BLOG ON ESPN:

And it’s possible that within three or four years, as Santana gets older and Hughes progresses, that Hughes might become something close to what Santana will be then. And you could say the same for Clay Buchholz"
______________________________________________________
"And this exactly why NYY shouldn’t pay the cost in players. The monetary cost in salary and replacement players would reach 250 million to try and get two players to replace Cano and Cabrera,along with paying Santana, plus losing the top two draft picks. In players alone, that’s 6 top level players plus the money."

I agree that if the Twins come down in price when they realize that they're not going to be able to 'hold up' another team, that some sort of 'sane' deal could be considered. Obviously always with the extension in mind. But the way these deals are presently being discussed, the cost in players and money is just prohibitive.

Again, if people on other teams start going crazy, in spite of common sense, then it could start a panic that, like stock market panics, just spread to any other teams in a possible bidding war. Who knows.

Now I really do have to get out of here. Dinner is on the table!

yanks 61

Isn't it amazing that Billy was a totally different guy off the field??? I thought he was GREAT. He loved kids and was courteous and friendly! The day I met him, he signed autographs before the game after Tony Kubek interviewed him. Then, after the game, outside the stadium, there was a line about 3 wide and 100 yards long. He stood there smoking his pipe and signed EVERY autograph for the whole line.

Later, at the hotel bar, he got hounded by parents and kids for more autographs and pictures all night long. To this day I kick myself for leaving my camera in the car!!! I was coming back from the rest room when he was on his way and he was talking with some kids and I heard him tell them that when they got to the majors to make sure they always signed their autographs. He was GREAT, especially with the kids.

He even came over to our table and introduced himself once my wife told him I was his biggest fan. Then we went up to the bar and joined him, Clete, and Art Fowler. We talked about Winfield and Rigehtti. Like Hank said, he wasn't a mean drunk. He was actually a very nice and friendly man. I think lots of the times he got in fights, it was some idiot trying to be famous for 15 minutes. Like Hank said, Billy didn't start anything, but he just couldn't walk away.

And on the field, there was no fiercer competitor or more cunning a strategist. And, he always gave everything he had, just like you said. I love Billy and wear his number to this day for my softball team. Like he always said, "If winning isn't important, then why do we keep score?"

Yeah, Hughes COULD turn out to be a Santana??? Or, Hughes COULD turn out to be another Kei Igawa, or worse yet, another Ted Lilly (GASP)!!!

But, we KNOW Santana is a Santana. And, there in lies the reasoning for a deal.

Well, now that the dust has all settled, I see that Mr. Boras and AR HAVE gotten their 10 year - $305 M contract after all. They got their 10 years and broke the big 30 barrier just like they wanted. Funny how things work out, ain't it?

Hughes could turn out to be Kei Igawa?

Talk about hyperbole.

Hughes could turn out to be Santana?

Talk about hyperbole.

Not really, Rick.

Olney said a regressed Santana in a few years. He's not going to be the same dominant Santana forever. In fact, his regression may have already started with so many miles on his arm.

Maybe the Yanks can trade Ted Lilly to the Twins for Santana?

That sounds like an even trade!

To anticipate negative comments about A-Rod getting an extra $30 million in addition to his original $275M contract, everyone should be aware that that money is only based on the Yankees making marketing and promotional profits after A-Rod participates in endorsements such as signing memorabilia that the Yankees will sell, sponsorship in money-making events, making additional personal appearances -- and this is all in relation to his breaking the records that are presently in place. He gets an extra $6M whenever he breaks a certain all-time record. The Yankees will profit as well so it's not like it's money coming out of their pocket. In fact they stand to profit as well and will get a lot of his salary back. It's a win-win situation for BOTH A-Rod AND the Yankees.

When Boras was asking for $350M, this is what he had in mind. He expects the ball club to profit big time through sponsorships and endorsements and recoup A-Rod's huge salary IN FULL. The Yankees are no dummies. They knew what they're doing when they agreed to all that money. And just think of the great incentive for A-Rod to keep hitting those home runs and getting hits. Oh yeah, it's a win-win-win situation -- for A-Rod, the Yankees franchise, AND the fans.

So anon if I understand what you're saying you believe that if AR had had a specific monetary incentive he would not have choked as he neared 500?

And having such an incentive will make him less likely to