Jorge Posada had some interesting things to say in the conference call announcing his resigning (officially) this afternoon. He talked about various topics. In addition to himself of course, he addressed the possible acquisition of Johan Santana and Andy Pettitte's status.
On potentially being able to stay with the Yankees his entire career: "Nowadays it's really tough to stay with one team, and I think the Yankees really made a strong push to keep me in a Yankee uniform and pinstripes. I was really happy that I was able to do that. To have your whole career with one team is not easy. I've got a chance to play in the new stadium, and that's something I really look forward to in '09."
On being a DH: "Right now, I'm a catcher, and looking forward to catching for four more years. After that, if I can still play, I would probably be a DH."
Did say the fallback of being able to DH on occasion made staying with Yankees more attractive than, say, going to the Mets.
On going after Johan Santana/the "kids" Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy: "I'll tell you what, I love the young kids. I love all three of them. I think they have a bright future. We need a No. 1. We really need a No. 1, and I think that's why we're going after Santana. I would love to have him."
Said he was really impressed with Santana when he caught him at the All-Star Game, was able to see some different things than when hitting against him. Also said he thinks Santana could be the missing piece.
On Andy Pettitte: "It's tough. I've been talking to him, I try to talk to him every week. It's tough, he's got a tough decision to make. Right now he's leaning towards retirement. ... It's tough that he's thinking this way. We're going to try to push him and get that competitive edge. He's going to make that decision probably around the middle of January."
Comments (109)
"We really need a Number 1."
Jorge's really lobbying for Johann. Maybe his next phone call shouldn't be to Pettitte, maybe it should be to Santana. (Is that even legal?)
Does Johan like good Pizza, Cannoli, Deli?
I'd find out the best dish his mom cooked when he was a kid and then take him to a restaurant in NY that served that dish- we know it's there in the city somewhere- and that will hook him!
Did Jorge inadvertently bury Wang??? "We really need a Number 1". He's right but that can't make the Wanger feel all warm and fuzzy.
After the Wanger's two stinkbombs in the ALCS, he's not allowed to consider himself a #1.
RED ALERT- AM I INSANE?
Does anyone know if the Yankees are allowed to talk contract numbers with Santana before a deal has been put in place?
It seems kinda illegal right?
Lets say it is...Would it be that difficult an obstacle to covertly maneuver?
All this negotiation talk got me thinking about Scott Boras and though he is a soul-less snake of a man he's also a ruthless and brilliant negotiator and I'm wondering what he would think about all of this if he were in Cashman's position...(Trust me that was just as weird to type as it is read hah.... ;-)
Knowing what we know about Santana's ability to kill any potential trades shouldn't we be dealing with Santana and not the Twins?
Santana holds the cards and in effort to take a page out of the King Scumbags-(Boras) book...If I were Cashman and I can't sleep thinking about the prospect of loosing these precious pitchers that I've worked almost 3 years to cultivate than what would keep me from exhausting any and all efforts to put Santana on my side of this war?
Sure it may be sleazy...unethical...maybe even illegal and considered a high crime in M.L.B. but this is still the U.S.A. and last I checked we have rights about speech and stuff.
Is it not possible to speak with Santana under cover of darkness and explain to him that a certain team that ryhmes with Wankees is willing to offer him 5 yrs $2oo,ooo,ooo.oo YES THAT MUCH and all he has to do is tell the Twins it's the Yankees or else. At the very least that would put us back into Kennedy/Melky/Horne territory and I believe it's the only way we can "win" Kennedy and Hughes for Santana is robbing Peter to Paul and I'd much rather rob the Twins nomsayin?
Crazy?
LOL...Well it's better than putting the severed head of horse in his bed or taking his pets hostage...My back plan :)
A little tongue in cheek with my last post (sorry for the length) of course but I'm actually curious...
Why can't we find a way to get Santana to WANT to be on our side of this negotiation?
Believe me I'm not looking to totally screw the Twins.
I just don't want to screw ourselves while trying to screw the Redsox (ie getting Santana)
call their bluff!!
usually the sox finalize their dealings very quietly, then drop the bomb on the rest of us (schilling for casey fossum for god's sake as an example...), so i definitely hope and want ot believe that the latest rumors have been spread by the twins trying to motivate the yanks.
well, good job then! we have got to step up to the plate - we can offer a better deal than the reported one the sox are offering. put hughes on the table, and get santana.
there is no way on earth the yanks can allow santana to join the sox, especially for such a low price. we have to call the bluff and go for the deal.
Never make a deal to prevent your rival from doing it. That's not smart business.
You don't go out and buy a million-dollar mansion because your neighbor just bought one.
That's what happened when the BoSox got Dice-K and the Yanks countered with Kei Igawa.
Make the deal because it makes the most sense for YOUR team - not because you are preventing him from going elsewhere.
Let Boston overpay with prospects and salary. It wouldn't be the end of the world.
The Yanks will start hitting Santana eventually just like they adjusted and hit Pedro, Beckett, and Schilling over the years.
Fenway is not exactly an ideal ballpark for a pitcher like Santana who is left-handed and his homerun totals increased dramatically last season.
I'd make the deal if the Yanks don't have to give up Hughes, Joba, or Cano - but it's a deal-breaker for me if any of those kids are involved.
Not worth the gamble long term.
On adding to Viper' s comments, Santana has an ERA close to 6 at Fenway. He's a flyball pitcher and flyballs at Fenway are like a block of ice next to a furnace.
To be honest with you guys, I'm starting to lean towards the Yanks going after Joe Nathan and use him as the bridge to Mo. I'd like to see Cashman do something to beef up the pen.
The other issue will be if Pettitte packs it in. The Yanks have never won a title without a lefty in the rotation.
Santana's ERA at Fenway comes from one start in 2001...
Jesus, do you peopole have any clue what you're talking about?
Twins Fan in NY.
Don't let Hughes go! Keep the kids together!!!
Keep rebuilding the farm system. Build your team from within!!!
I can't give up Hughes. He's too important to the future of this team. Kennedy , I'd give up along with Melky and one other good prospect (Horne, McCutchen, Tabata, or Jackson).
Its 15 innings not just one start , though the majority of the damage came from 3 innings in 2000....I believe not 2001.
Just something that I heard on the radio, Twins fan. Not a comment meant to upset you or any other Twins' fan.
John G,
His "moniker" is far more upsetting to Yankee fans than anything you wrote ;-).
Yeah Realist.
I guess we Yankee fans are not too knowledgable about the game. LOL.
Gil L- You are right, the Sox have tried to swoop in and get a quick deal done by surprise and you know who they learned that from right? That's right...the Yanks. They stole Bernie Williams back when Boston thought they had him and then the best one was when Boston tried for a month to get a deal for A-Rod worked out and the Yanks got a deal done in about 48 hours. I can still hear Ben Affleck whining when someone told him the news as he was attending the Daytona 500. It was, and it's hard to describe the high notes his voice hit at that time but it went something like this:
Reporter: Ben, what do you think of A-Rod to the Yankees?
Ben: Yeah, right.
Reporter: You mean you haven't heard? It's done, he's been traded to the Yankees for Soriano.
Ben: Wha...wha WHAT!?.Come ON! This, oh man, this is RIDICULOUS! They get EVERYTHING....COME ONNNN...
I loved that, it was so funny to see his expression.
Frank,
I remember that one very well, it was high comedy at it's best.
http://madein1903.com/forum/
Note: I like Santana, but I love Hughes, so while this may come as an anit-Santana post, it's more a pro-Hughes post (kind of like a political slander ad against the opponent).
Let's look at some KEY stats regarding Santana:
Teams can get accustomed to Santana and then he becomes hittable. You want the proof? Let's take a look at the central division:
White Sox - 29IP 3.41 ERA
Indians - 39IP 4.39 ERA
Royals - 6IP 3.00 ERA
Tigers - 37IP 3.65 ERA
Put him pitching half of his innings against the Red Sox or Yankees, Devil Rays, Blue Jays and Royals and I say his ERA jumps by AT LEAST 0.50.
Those that say Santana was discouraged after the team traded Castillo and was no longer contending are just trying to make up excuses for Santana's poor performance. I say, let's look at each month of the season.
ERA under 2 - 1 month: He had 6 starts but 4 were against the NL. His NL ERA was 1.55, but his AL ERA was 3.46. Now this isn't as great a month anymore.
ERA between 2 and 3 - 1 month: May, all quality starts, no complaints here.
ERA between 3 and 4 - 3 months. Are we starting to see a trend here?
ERA greater than 4 - 1 month. I don't think this is indicative of his performance, but would like to hear from him why he thinks he performed poorly.
In his 4 years as a starter, only once has he averaged at least 7 innings per start.
His hits per inning pitched have increased EVERY YEAR that he's been a starter.
He was prone to giving up HRs ALL YEAR, not limited to any individual month.
Over the past three years, he has a 3.60 ERA at Fenway (sample size only 5 IP), so the talk of how he does at Fenway is completely irrelevant.
Fun stat, in the past three years, Santana has gone to a 3 - 0 count only 18 times, but all 18 times he walked the batter.
He has a .458 BAA with the bases loaded...since batters are given a hard time for not hitting with the bases loaded, he should be harassed for not pitching with 'em loaded.
His ERA over the past three years on grass is 3.05.
After all of this, I suspect that if Santana were to pitch for either the Yankees or Red Sox, he would be an 18 - 22 game winner with 215 strikeouts and an ERA of 3.55.
Is a pitcher with a 3.55 ERA really worth giving up Hughes and Melky? I've been ok with giving up Kennedy, Melky and Horne previously. Now, I'm questioning that approach especially when we'd have to pay him so handsomely.
This time next year, the following pitchers could be available as free agents:
AJ Burnett (opt out option) - If he pitches well this year, he'll opt out knowing he can get more than $11 million/year.
John Lackey (2009 option) - club option, he won't be available until 2010
Jake Peavy (2009 option) - club option, he won't be available until 2010 if not by trade
Brad Penny (2009 option) - club option, he won't be going anywhere until 2010
CC Sabathia - I think this guy is a pretty damned good lefty.
Ben Sheets - Not sure what to think about him with injuries and converting from the NL, but you never know; he could be a good buy, but I'd be hesitant.
2009 Rotation Without Santana
Sabathia
Hughes
Chamberlain
Wang
Kennedy
If any of the three can't cut it, there are other FA options and there is still Horne.
Your resident stat man has informed all of you! Hope you enjoy.
Baseball prospectus top Yankee prospects under 25 #1 is Phil Hughes, AHEAD of Joba. The top 10:
1. Hughes (MLB)
2. Joba
3. Kennedy
4. Jackson
5. Tabata
6. Horne
7. Betances
8. Montero
9. Cabrera (MLB)
10. Brackman
And on top of that, why don't you read this article and buy the t-shirt...
http://riveraveblues.com/2007/11/29/save-hughes-save-joba-save-ipk-save-the-future/
These guys wrote some great stuff.
Someone was making fun of me yesterday about Troy Percival.
Well, like with Ankiel, the possibility of Kazmir being traded and other issues (the coming economic catastrope which is around the corder) it appears the Yanks were going hard after Troy.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7504354?MSNHPHMA
Six months ago, Troy Percival was out of baseball.
Now, he is on the verge of signing a two-year, $8 million contract with the Rays, according to major-league sources.
The deal will contain a series of escalators that could push the total value of the package to more than $10 million, sources say.
Percival took a physical in Tampa Bay on Thursday.
Percival, 38, is joining the Rays for two reasons — the chance to close and the opportunity to reunite with manager Joe Maddon, who was the Angels' bench coach when Percival was the team's star closer.
The Yankees were willing to pay Percival a higher salary, sources say, but they wanted him as a set-up man for closer Mariano Rivera.
What's hot:
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Weiss: West Virginia better watch out
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Lakers give Jackson $24M extension
LeBron day-to-day with finger sprain
Rays, Percival near 2-year, $8M deal
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The Brewers, Giants, A's and Blue Jays also expressed interest in Percival, who pitched effectively with the Cardinals last season after missing nearly a year and a half with a right-forearm injury.
Sounds like the Twins are pretty unimpressed with the youth the Yankees have to offer for Santana. If the players the Twins are looking for from Bosox is correct then the Yanks are again guilty of overvaluing their prospects. The more things change, the more they stay the same
Nudge,
The Twins will be pretty unimpressed with the BoSox offer unless either Ellsbury or Buchholtz is part of that deal.
Pot. Kettle. Black.
It boils down to this - Yanks have to give up Hughes to get Santana (who I'd rather keep) and the Red Sox have to give up Ellsbury or Laptop Boy.
It's ain't happening for either team otherwise.
HYD
WELCOME BACK!! ;-)
Re-The link you put up..
Are you on the "Viper" payroll?
I'm really growing tired of some of you who insist that this deal would somehow translate into a "rental" of some sort and I wish you would stop.
Not to single you out HYD
I'm not even sure you are part of that particularly irritating contingent but-and as much as I hate to side with the likes of the "RnR" I believe they're on the "money" on this "particular issue."
SANTANA WILL SIGN AN EXTENSION
SANTANA WILL SIGN AN EXTENSION SANTANA WILL SIGN AN EXTENSION SANTANA WILL SIGN AN EXTENSION SANTANA WILL SIGN AN EXTENSION
SANTANA WILL NEVER SEE "FREE" "AGENCY"
"PERIOD"
BILLY MARTIN IS GOD!!!!
PS. AROD SUCKS AND TED LILLY IS GOD
CHOOSE YOUR DESTINY
1. BECKETT/SANTANA (YEAH IN THAT ORDER!!) Dice K/Phuckholz/INSERT FIFTH STARTER...
2. C.M Wang/Hamlet?/Joba the Starter? /2 pitch Hughes?/a 46yr old moose?/ IFK?/IGAWA?/DARREL RASNER?
3. SANTANA/HAMLET/C.M. WANG/IPK/IGAWA
Oops...Forgot Joba in the 3rd "Destiny"
See what you make me do!! LOL
Well lets keep the kids and watch the Red Sx win 4 of the next 5 world series. I am not for keeping a guy from the Red Sox, ut lets look at the past. The Yankees were in the idding for Pedro and ost out - by getting him the Sox began their turn around. Then Shilling - again the Yanks missed out on him and again he further stregntheed the Sox bringing the 1st WS. The eckett the Yanks were afraid of arm problems and let him go tot the SOx for a package that, at the time (key phrase) the Yanks could have easily topped. Santana, Beckett, an improved Dice-K and Bucholtz with Schilling as the number 5 starter makes that the best rotation in the East, in the AL, in baseball period. In fact it is one of the best rotations in the last 20 years. I for one do not wat to have to wait another 5-6 years before I can see a WS celebration. Let's not forget that the Indians pitching has far surpassed ours as has Detroits who will be better next season making th Wild-Card and 2 AL East playoff teams not the given it has been in the past decade.
From the reports I read the one I most believe is that the Yanks are offering Kenedy, Melky, and Jackson/Tabata. Maybe they can enitce the Twins by throwing in SS Gonzalez and a pitcher of Horne's caliver (someone the Twins view as a notch right below Kennedy). The Twins may want two A- pitchers (Kenedy and Horne) above one, or they may just want someone with Ace potential.
If not - they have to do Kennedy, Melky, Jackson, and a minor prospect (either low level with high ceilng or someone like Gonzalez.) I believe that would trump any offer from the Sox but I am not the Twins who view Lester in higher regard than Kennedy, but the fact is that they do. Including Hughes maybe the only way to get this done.
I want to watch the young players develop but I want to celebrate a WS in 2008/2009 more. Hughes will b great but it will take time and with the core player Jeter, Rivera and Posada getting old - the time for them is running out.
CHRIS
i concur.
Well lets keep the kids and watch the Red Sx win 4 of the next 5 world series. I am not for keeping a guy from the Red Sox, ut lets look at the past. The Yankees were in the idding for Pedro and ost out - by getting him the Sox began their turn around. Then Shilling - again the Yanks missed out on him and again he further stregntheed the Sox bringing the 1st WS. The eckett the Yanks were afraid of arm problems and let him go tot the SOx for a package that, at the time (key phrase) the Yanks could have easily topped. Santana, Beckett, an improved Dice-K and Bucholtz with Schilling as the number 5 starter makes that the best rotation in the East, in the AL, in baseball period. In fact it is one of the best rotations in the last 20 years. I for one do not wat to have to wait another 5-6 years before I can see a WS celebration. Let's not forget that the Indians pitching has far surpassed ours as has Detroits who will be better next season making th Wild-Card and 2 AL East playoff teams not the given it has been in the past decade.
From the reports I read the one I most believe is that the Yanks are offering Kenedy, Melky, and Jackson/Tabata. Maybe they can enitce the Twins by throwing in SS Gonzalez and a pitcher of Horne's caliver (someone the Twins view as a notch right below Kennedy). The Twins may want two A- pitchers (Kenedy and Horne) above one, or they may just want someone with Ace potential.
If not - they have to do Kennedy, Melky, Jackson, and a minor prospect (either low level with high ceilng or someone like Gonzalez.) I believe that would trump any offer from the Sox but I am not the Twins who view Lester in higher regard than Kennedy, but the fact is that they do. Including Hughes maybe the only way to get this done.
I want to watch the young players develop but I want to celebrate a WS in 2008/2009 more. Hughes will b great but it will take time and with the core player Jeter, Rivera and Posada getting old - the time for them is running out. If getting Santana means 1 championship for this team and Hughes goes on to win 20 games 3 seasons from now I view the trade as a success. The future is great, but do not lose site of the fact that sometimes you need to live for the day and not the future. Three 22 year old kids will not bring us to the promise land no matter how goood they are, but a Santana can go out there and bear Beckett , Sabathia, Verander, or Lackey in game 1 of a series No other person on this roster cab consisyantly do that
Sure we may be giving up a guy who becomes an Ace in 3 or 4 years, but e are geting back a bonafide Number ONE STOPPER - a true ACE. The Yankees built this farm system not oly to play for them, but to trade and what other player on earth is a better guy to trad for than Johan.
of couse this will all e irreleant if the team doesnt go out and get some guys to pitch th 6th, 7th, an 8th inningd. A trade for Prior maybe? He would come cheap and could he pitch out of the pen. I bring him up only because I would rather take a struggling starter and put him in the pen than to give Mahay or Vizcain 5 million a year
The future is NOW. Johan to the Sox equals New Engaland dominance over the next 5 years. Johan to the Yanks makes them an equal - if not better on paper than the Sox. Cashman - keep trying to sell Kennedy and Horne instead of Hughes, but if Hughes is what it will take then dp the deal. Us Yankee fans will just have to try and ignore the Twins Box Score eevery 5th day
Don't care if you like it or not, Phucker.
Santana actually has all the leverage here - not the Twins - and can nix any deal he wants. If he doesn't approve a trade because he's not getting the money he wants, the Twins are forced to keep him and they have no say so otherwise.
If they don't feel that they are getting enough talent in return right now, they could elect to keep him and make a run at the division with Santana and Liriano both in the rotation.
Joe from River Ave Blues explains the "one-year rental" theory perfectly:
"A message I’ve been trying to spread for the past few days is that extension or not, we would be trading for just one year of Santana. Yes, a trade would be contingent upon an agreement on an extension being reached, but it is still a separate entity. It’s what the Yankees would be paying for Santana, in theory, if he signed with them as a free agent after the 2008 season.
In essence, then, the players involved in the deal act as a twofold bribe to the Twins. First, the payment of prospects keeps Santana out of the hands of other teams. Second, it buys one year of contractual service. That’s it.
So is Phil Hughes and (Jose Tabata and/or Austin Jackson) and possibly Alan Horne and/or Melky worth keeping Santana out of the hands of other teams and receiving one year of his service?
I guess it depends on how you value Johan Santana. You can say “he’s the best pitcher in baseball” all day, and I’d probably bet on you in a shouting match. But nothing is that simple. If we knew that Johan would continue to be the best pitcher in baseball for the next five years, I’d even consider trading Joba. But we don’t (so I wouldn’t). And when you look at it, history doesn’t side with Santana."
Personally, I don’t care if the Red Sox get Santana. It wouldn't be the end of the world as many paranoid Yankee fans tend to think.
The Yanks will start hitting Santana eventually like they do anyone else. The more ABs against him - the more they’ll adjust. They’ve hit Pedro, Beckett, and Schilling over the years and Santana would be no different.
The Red Sox might be the “favorite” to win over the next few years but that doesn’t mean they’ll win. Teams do have to play 162 regular season games a year on the field - along with winning 11 postseason games to boot.
Games aren’t played on paper.
The odds-on favorite in April the last 20 years is not usually the last team standing at the end of October.
Don’t make this move to prevent him from going to the Red Sox. That’s not smart business.
Strongly... ;-)
Seriously though MO is 39?
I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why we can't "tamper" with this whole situation by enticing SANTANA himself!!
THIS IS AMERICA
MONEY TALKS
When necessary it can speak in a venezuelan accent!!!
Can't we get some sort of Boras-Esque tactical procedure here?
A GOOD OLD FASHIONED CONSPIRACY PEOPLE!!!
WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE YANKEES RIGHT?
Dear Hank,
LIE TO ME IF YOU MUST BUT GET US OUR MAN !!!
Strongly... ;-)
Seriously though MO is 39?
I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why we can't "tamper" with this whole situation by enticing Johan himself!!
THIS IS AMERICA
MONEY TALKS
When necessary it can speak in a venezuelan accent!!!
Can't we get some sort of Boras-Esque tactical procedure here?
A GOOD OLD FASHIONED CONSPIRACY PEOPLE!!!
WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE YANKEES RIGHT?
Dear Hank,
LIE TO ME IF YOU MUST BUT GET US OUR MAN !!!
sorry about the double posts
The problem with this "1 year rental thheory" is that pat of the deal is that the winner gets a negotiation wndow with him as part of the package and HE WILL sign with that team. If you were to tell me he stays with the Twins and foes free agent than show me the dotted line and I sgin.
I do not look at a player who is only under contract for 1 year - I look at a guy undter contact for 7 years at around 22 million per when I see this trade. Sure the contract they give him will be what they would have given him as a free agent but that is irrelevant because he will never be a free agent. Calling it a 1 year rental in innacurate because any team that wants him will only make the trade if it comes with contract unless Minny decidest keep him fof 2008 and then let him walk which is highly unlikely.
He is an expensive payer - YES - Is he a rental player - No!
THERE IS NO RENTAL
VIPER
I LOVE YA BUDDY BUT THIS SEMANTIC HORSE$HIT IS BENEATH YOU
i do not deny that games are not lplayed on paper, but I would muc prefer having Santana on the roater and be the favorites in the AL East rather than roorng fo dsaster in boson in ordert to stand a chece
but you are right - a team on paper is meaningless. Huges minor leauge numbers are meaningless until he does it on a major league level. On the other hand Santana has done it on the big stage and I think we have a much better idea what we will get form him in the coming years than hughes.
Also the fact remains thaT Hughes at his best will most likely never become the pitcher that Santana arady is
The Post reports Boston was close to completing a deal for Santana as of last night because the Yanks have not included Hughes in the deal. Still a package of Lester, Crisp, and Lowrie, and a minor league pticher does not seem better than Kennedy, Melky, Tabata, and SS Alberto Gonzales. But one thing that cant happen at the end of the day is to see Boston complete this deal.
Chris: Pitcher Santana already was my friend. Santana is more likely to put up 2007 numbers from here on out than to repeat any of his 2004-2006 seasons. I'm telling you that my 3.55 ERA prediction is pretty accurate if he comes to the AL East. He'll win more games, but there are a number of indicators saying he's going to decline.
Mike: I'm not in line with Viper as I'm pretty sure my Hughes loyalty has been defined as long as I've been posting on this blog based on my handle. I've never wavered on that.
The reality is that yes, even IF he signs an extension, it does not change what the trade is for. If you're the Twins, this is what you're giving up if you trade Santana: 1 year of Santana, 1st Round pick, Sandwich Pick. Any trade should be equal to that value in my mind. The Twins are not giving up 7 years of Santana and should not be compensated as if they are. A team may get 7 years of Santana or they may not. Smartest thing Santana could do is indicate he has not intention of signing an extension and would like to go to free agency.
Either way, for $150 million over the next seven years would you rather have Hughes/Sabathia or Santana? I'm taking Hughes/Sabathia every time...EVERY TIME!
Look folks, I love Hip-Hip as much as any of the True Blue Columbus Crew (Jetes, Mo, Pettitte and ol' Bernabe of yore), but I gotta say Posada's suffering from some of the same ailments as the Boss, this week: too much money, not enough time. Look, the guy's drunk on his final big league contract (and, boy, did he hit the jackpot), of course he's going to want to shoot for the stars. Not sure why, but Jorge's always struck me as having about as much integrity as anyone in the game. He's always seemed earnest, hard-working and unselfish. But, heck, a guy's allowed to dream. Why shouldn't he want a fifth ring to complete a full fist? He's partying this week? He doesn't have to be thinking about the Yankee future beyond 2011. From his perspective, damn the future, full speed ahead. Who could blame him?
That was "he's partying this week!" Assertive, firm, sure of itself, not questioning whatsoever.
And one more thing: someone wrote that you wouldn't hear this from Jeter. No you wouldn't, and I bet we won't hear any more of it from Jorge either.
Gene Michael Spoke on espn radio . read it online
he stated he would trade either Ian kennedy or Phil Hughes for santana but he has issues with the contract.
This is coming from the Godfather of GM's
PTRS
Glad to see you are finally becoming enlightened!
Phucker,
I've agreed with you all along about a trade for Santana not being a "rental" but I'd put it more like it's a posting fee. The Yanks will have to give up prospects instead of money up front for the right to negotiate with Santana, with the big difference being that if they can't reach a deal, the Yanks get their prospects back.
I also responded to your pleas of some kind of tampering with Santana on the previous thread. I mentioned that some "friend" of Santana's should be persuaded to call him and bring him to NY and remind him that regardless of what happens, he will be a true free agent at the end of next season and that the Yanks will PAY him and make it worth his while if he rejected a trade to any other team but the Yanks, or any team period for that matter.
I'd take him to NY, find a nice little restaurant that serves food just like his momma used to cook and hook that dude! There's two ways to hook men- by their stomachs and by their...ahem..well, you know. They should start with the stomach and work down.
Anonymous- You're a little late to the party, check the previous thread, people posted the whole Gene Michael interview.
I still prefer to think of the trade package that gets us the right to negotiate with JS as a POSTING FEE.
Love Jorge as always. It may be illegal for him to directly recruit a guy wearing the uni of another team, but giving him a shout out from your signing conference call, in response to a direct question? Looks legal from here, and no doubt JS got the message.
Well,
I said several days ago the Sox would be able to offer a stronger package to the Twins for Johan than the Yanks would be willing to. It appears that may be the case. This deal is not done, but when you have multiple sources saying the same thing...namely..the Sox package of Lester/Crisp/Lowrie/Bowden or Masterson is more appealing to the Twins than anything the Yanks have offered...there must be some truth to it eh.
I also stated that I have reservations regarding this deal...and if I were the Yanks, I would have the same reservations. The price is very very steep. If you factor in the cost of talent, the cost of money, and the length of contract it is going to take to secure the services of Santana.....one has to wonder just how much he is worth. If Johan can give another 3-4 years of service at the same level as the past 3-4 years...then undoubtedly, he will be worth the price. For the Sox it would mean dominance of the East, and likely of MLB. Pitching wins championships...period. For the Yanks, it would mean the Sox would no longer have the clear advantage they have now. IF Santana somehow ends up in the NL, both the Sox and the Yanks would be able to hang onto the king's ransom they would part with for Santana and would likely watch the multiple players they would lose in a trade develop into a new wave of stars. IF that were to happen, the Sox would also maintain there current edge over the Yanks. For me, I'd vote for Johan to be wearing Dodger blue for the next 5-6 years.
One other comment....all of a sudden Dan Haren, and Eric Bedard are licking their chops...waiting for the Santana thing to go down. Personally, I think the Sox might be better off going after Haren...a solid #2 guy behind Beckett who is far far less costly and is locked up for 3 more years. Bedard might put up Santana like numbers with a team that can score runs and a bp that can hold leads.
Piss off casual Obsessor!
Yankees Close With Loretta?
Ryne Crabb of The Transaction Guy writes of a Buster Olney radio report wherein the Yankees were said to be close to signing Mark Loretta.
Before we punch Robinson Cano's ticket to Minnesota, remember that the Yanks have liked Loretta in the past as a first base and/or backup infield option. It may be as simple as that. To his credit, Loretta posted a .352 OBP last year (though he was awful after the break).
From MLB Trade Rumors....
Observer,
The rumors will be flying fast and furious with the winter meetings almost here, I won't believe anything until Monday evening.
As for the package that the Red Sox have offered, or supposedly offered for Santana, there is no way the Twins will take that trade, the Yankees could offer a better package than that even without Hughes.
Crisp couldn't be traded for a backup catcher (Laird) so don't count on him being any important part of a Santana trade. This is just the Twins using the Sox to get the Yankees to commit to including Hughes, it's all gamesmanship right now and the Twins are smartly trying to get the Sox and Yankees into a bidding war. I would even say that the Sox are not even intending to go through with a trade as they would rather see the Yankees overpay for Santana.
Your homeboy Peter Gammons points out that the Red Sox would be seriously worried about the waves they would cause on their own team if they signed Santana for $20M per season as they figure Beckett would want to renegotiate his deal and so on.
You seem like a good person, but I can't help the feeling that you seem to only show up these days when you think the Sox have gotten the best of the Yankees (again). It sort of reminds me of this neighbor of mine, whom I don't see very often but if the Sox beat the Yanks, he somehow manages to be outside when I'm walking by and just mentions "hey, did you see the game last night?". The guy doesn't know anything about baseball (unlike you) but he's annoying as hell. My suggestion is, to avoid posts like the one at 09:46, if you are going to come to this blog, stay for a while, don't just show up when there is good Sox news to report/gloat over.
By the way sports fans, whenever you run into someone who doesn't know anything about sports yet they like to talk trash about their teams, just respond to them by saying "name 7 active players on your team right now". That usually shuts them up.
Can the Red Sox afford Santana?
The Provincial Journal out of Boston reports: "A source with knowledge of the negotiations last night confirmed only that the teams had exchanged multiple proposals this week and said “some positive momentum” had been created by the two clubs.
Last night, however, a deal was far from imminent.
Even if a team can satisfy the Twins, Santana’s contractual demands must also be met. Sources with direct knowledge of Santana’s deal say that the pitcher will not waive his full no-trade clause until he reaches agreement on a five- or six-year deal that will pay him well in excess of $20 million annually.
The cost of such a deal, however, would send the Sox’ payroll into the stratosphere. Even allowing for the fact that Santana is due $13.5 million in 2008, the last year of his current deal, the Sox’ starting rotation alone would be on the books for $43 million and their overall payroll would stand at $126.75 million — BEFORE the Sox determined the 2008 salaries of Dustin Pedroia, Kevin Youkilis, Jonathan Papelbon, Manny Delcarmen and a number of reserve players."
Henry & Werner paid $700 million for the Red Sox in 2001. In 2007, Forbes estimates the Red Sox are worth $724 million. That profit can go straight to Santana.
Steinbrenner bought the Yankees for $10 million in 1973. In 2007, Forbes estimates the Yankees are worth $1.2 billion. The Yankees can afford Santana.
Jim A.,
I am not gloating...as I've said...I'm not particualrly thrilled with the proposed Santana trade the Sox may or may not make. I disagree with you on the value of Crisp...I watch him play. I dont believe that he couldnt be traded for a backup catcher (Laird), in fact I believe that Texas would LOVE to do that trade...the Sox are holding off for obvious reasons. You, and others seem to over-value some of the Yankee players, imo...such as Melkey...what makes him more valuable than Crisp?
As far as your contention I only show up when I think the Sox have the upper hand...please.....I only have windows of time, at this point, where I can "yack" online...and this is one blog among others I come to because I like the give and take, and the different perspectives. It seems that some of you are a bit touchy...I have nothing to do with the outcome of the games, or what trades may or may not happen...just an opinion, like you.
I believe the Sox have the ability to do two things....offer the Twins a better package for Santana, and if they dont pull the trigger...they can drive the price up for any other team (read Yankees) that may be in the mix. This is not a new concept...the Yanks have done the same thing over and over again in the past....and will in the future.
The sox offer is better because of the Major league ready players (CRISP and Lester) than the HYPE surrounding our players.
Lester and Crisp have rings.
Lester's Downfall was Cancer he has so far defeated that
Phil Hughes was injury ridden in his first year
Melky Cabrera is solid but over rated, he just looks good due to the Asswipes in the OF now. and still needs improvement on how to consistantly hit. and prove he is a good leadoff hitter which at this point he is not.
coco puffs would be a good lead off hitter and shape out .
Now of course this could back fire
The turf can play a part of the destruction of coca puffs and the speed of the ball off the bat (indoor Staduim)can lessen his already subpar fielding. this can also hurt a melky as he is not too good in the READ of a ball off the bat.
The Lester cancer could return (please pray it don't).
Now the Upside is Hughes is the Man and pitches great , throws 200 Innings .
And Melky plays consistant shows better plate dicipline etc.
That joba coulbd be a good starter and not get rocked after 3 innings. Because if this happens and Hughes is not the answer then all of you supporters of Joba in the rotation should just back away from your Pc's. This would be worse than the Rick Keyes predication of AROD last year.
I would do the trade of Hughes if the twinkies asked.
The most he can become is the dominant pitcher we traded him for.
The deal breaker for me is not Hughes but Action Jackson.
To be compared to Granderson and see what Grandy can do is a amazing thing and that is a keeper.
"The turf can play a part of the destruction of coca puffs and the speed of the ball off the bat (indoor Staduim)can lessen his already subpar fielding. this can also hurt a melky as he is not too good in the READ of a ball off the bat"
Are you kidding me????
Crisp is one of the fastest players in MLB...his VALUE is just THAT! He CAN get to balls most others cannot. The turf will HELP his ba and obp.
Good heavens people.
Casual:
Crisp is a very nice player and would be better for the Twins than for Boston, but I see the same problem there that the Twins had when the Yankees offered Wang - Crisp's contract is up soon - the whole point was that the Twins want players that they can control financially for a few years.
I also don't think Lester is as good as Hughes. Granted, Lester is a great story, the comeback and all - but in terms of stuff - he's probably more equal to Ian Kennedy than Hughes.
Masterson is a reliever
And I know nothing about Jed Lowrie other than that Boston is willing to deal him because they have Julio Lugo - sorry but if you're made expendable by Julio Lugo's presence then I can't take you seriously.
To me this deal would be akin to the Yankees giving up Kennedy, Melky, Mark Meloncan, and Juan Miranda.
Chip,
Actually, Coco is under contract for 3 more years with an option. I have to say that Lester is far more "proven" than Hughes at this point, and clearly has solid upside potential. Hughes, imo, is the real deal as well. Lester may have a bit of an edge because he is LH...LH pitchers who can throw 3 plus pitches are rare. Masterson is being compared to Joba...but I dont know much about him...have never seen him pitch. Lowrie appears to be a real solid prospect for a middle infielder...who could paly the corner postions too. Great arm...good range, and a solid bat with mid-level power/pop. I guess it will boil down to what the Twins needs are, and how THEY value the players being offered.
if the yankees offer Hughes Jackson and Tabata along with melky that destroys the Boston Proposal due the Yankee DEPTH in the minors at all levels, the reason the Deal seems like it's leaning towards Boston is due to the Yankees not offering their Best of the best outside of Hughes (whom the y may have reserves about ) so maybe they know something and is poker facing this to con the twins. The yankees have depth trust me on this .
A couple of seasons ago Cano was offered for Jamie Moyer and the mariners told the Yankees to get lost. Cano was offered in the Johnson Deal and again was told try again this prooves that we have alot of under the radar players who do well. along with a GM who probally had some bad scouting reports from the minors on Cano.
The redsox is holding on to Clay and that CF obviously becasue they are their best prospects and the Yankees have the same emotions on their prospects. I would give the sox credit only becasue their guys contributed to the team's victories while at most we can say Joba stood out and that was in a relief role.
Which is another reason this trade has to be done, If joba fails at msot he goes back to the pen leaving a gaping hole in the rotation and now with the Pettite news heading for disaster the rotation looks real ......hummmh F****ked up right now. not only would I trade for Johann but would Inquire about Bartolo as well. Which is something that MAY have to happen if Pettite decides against returning and Johan is traded elsewhere that would leave the team with what ?????/ A UNSTABLE ROTATION and what the f88k happened last year when the rotation was unstable due to whatever??? = a F***KED up start of the season
On a non-Santana related note - the Denver Post is reporting that Mark Loretta is close to signing a deal with the Yankees to serve as a utility player. He's waiting to see what the Rockies do about their 2nd base situation before putting pen to paper with NY though as he would rather start for the Rox.
Two differences between the two CF's under discussion:
One:
Crisp has been a disappointment in Boston after having been brought in with very high expectations, while Melky has been seen as a pleasant surprise in the Bronx after starting out with low expectations.
At atmosphere around one of 'gee too bad he never quite worked out' compared with an atmosphere around the other of 'hey who knew this kid could be this good'...
I think that flavors the discussions around them as much as their actual accomplishments which AT THIS STAGE don't seem hugely different.
Two:
Age. Crisp at five years older than Melky can be assumed to have already reached his prime and to be unlikely to improve significantly. Melky is still at a much earlier stage in his development and a team acquiring him can have much more reason to hope to develop his skills and see his accomplishments outdo those of Crisp going forward.
Good heaven to you . Coca is noted for his speed but subpar OF read maning his speed helps cover his failures ( I also placed melky in this category) as a PLAYER one would know that the flies off the bat in inside staduims meaning with balls flying he will be using his speed more to catch the read of the ball. so in hindsight if he running full speed on balls that could have been a easy READ for one like a Hunter COCO PUffs increases the chances of Leg injury. (see rondell white , etc.)
Observer,
I do not over value Yankee prospects. Please go back and read any post I've written because I've made it perfectly clear that I think Melky Cabrera's value may be as high as it is ever going to get right now and I would not let trading him stand in the way of any trade for pitching. I also stated a few times that I believe there is just as much of a chance of the "big 3" (Chamberlain, Kennedy and Hughes) being the next "Generation K" (The Mets' Pulsipher, Wilson and Isringhausen) as they do of being the next Zito, Mulder and Hudson, as a matter of fact, if only one of those guys sees moderate success in the big leagues I won't be surprised.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Santana is a proven commodity, none of the others are so I would trade a couple of the prospects for him (and I don't care about the dollars it would take to pay Santana).
However, I would not trade Hughes and Kennedy, one but not both if you ask me.
Diane that is not feesable when talking about the replacing of HUNTER in that what is needed is a stable guy, and with that crisp may be that option as you can insert him at leadoff and have the turf etc. help him with hits. You already have that WOW player in Delmon Young, Melky is not a WOW player he is a SOLID player.
Coco has been compared to Damon since his arrival in Boston....tell me who would fill those shoes? Coco is not Damon, and never will be...although at this point he is far superior defensively. Crisp played the best CF that anyone ever has in Fenway this year. His reads off the bat are superb, his ability to run down balls amazing, his highlight reel leaps to snag balls hit on a rope over his head indescribable. I dont know why you people want to color it different than what reality is...Crisp is a far superior fielding CFer than Melkey, as well as most other CFers playing today. His bat is not what the Sox hoped for, yet in a dome with turf he is likely to be a very effective lead-off hitter, and one that can steal 35+ bases a year in a system that runs the bases. I believe the Twins feel the same way about him.