On the Yankees beat

Wouldn't we expect Duncan or Matsui to bat ahead of Cano?

Fellow NYY fans, tell me --

-- is it just destiny at work or do they plan it this way?

When we have the nurturing, protective manager (Torre) looking out for the players, we have a pitching coach like the 'old school' Guidry pushing guys and giving short shrift to those who screw up. (Not to mention Torre's predilection for other 'old school' guys like Zimmer and Bowa.)

When we have the (allegedly, we haven't seen a lot of him yet) 'old school' manager (Girardi) running maniacally around, we have the nurturing, protective (some say babying) pitching coach like Eiland holding the hands of sensitive youngsters.

So do managers consciously look to fill in their weak spots, or is it fate?

Jon...I really think Cano should be our #5 hitter. I think that highly of him to protect Arod. Since Cano doesnt strike out much, he will at least put the ball in play. With A-rod's speed, we can manufacture many hit and runs. Cano is a very talented hitter, he has was a #3 hitter his entire career. If Abreu goes, I think the Yanks would consider hitting him #3. ( if we dont get Teixeria that is ).

Diane...I think its a little bit of both. How that for a cop out??? lol

minus the has in "he has was "

I type too fast and dont read my stuff...lol My coworker just said to me...slow down, you're making us look bad. Little do they know what Im actually typing...every once in a while I have to send out emails to throw them off...lol

Cant wait till manana! I'm goingto the game guys,although it means absolutely nothing, it feels grrrreat to see all the regulars PLUS the BIG THREE!!! YESSSS!!!

I guess I'm the old-fashioned type who wants to see the power hitters in the middle of the line-up. Of course, Cano may be evolving into a power hitter himself.

I believe that evolution may have started last July Jon. His walk rate and power numbers were through the roof in the 2nd half of last year. The walk rate is the most promising that he is developing. Also his OPS was 2nd only to Arod after the break.

Diane, DRU - I'm only just catching up to you from a previous thread a couple hours ago. Kat is moving along quickly these days!

It's just to say thanks to both of you. DRU, I agree with you. I grew up as Yankee/Giants fan in the fifties, but I was also always a BASEBALL fan. I use to hate the Brooklyn Dodgers as a kid. But, like we're all suppose to do, I grew up. Today I look back on those great Dodger teams, at the Campenellas, the Hodges, the Sniders, the Jackie Robinsons etc. and think what an honor it was to have my teams play them. The fact that the Yankees beat such fine clubs was testimony to their own greatness. What would have been the value of beating a mediocre team?

Apart from the Dodgers (who were, blindly, just the enemy), my admiration went out to the Musials and to the Ted Williams and the Ernie Banks of the game - and many, many others. My best baseball friend today, back in Brooklyn, follows both the Yankees and the Mets - but he's really a Mets fan, yet we both enjoy discussing the pluses and minuses of our teams without trying to berate the guys on the other team - or other teams. We just try to analyse and discuss objectively and enjoy this great game that has given us both (given us all!) such great pleasure in our lives. Sully and guys like him are good people to discuss baseball with because he's objective but not negative, and he gives credit where it's due and clearly states who he roots for - so we know where he's coming from.

So again, thanks to both of you for being such great fans. I enjoy reading you both.

By the way, Diane, thank you for the welcome back! I only wander in from time to time to post, but I’m nearly always around having a look see at what’s going on (when I’m not on the road.)

Jon K & DRU,

First game and ALREADY second guessing the MGR. I may be a long season. Keep the powder dry.

Yanks 61,

Your response is on a previous thresd. Read it if you can take it. Probably not though.

Nudge...GOOOSE FRAHHH BAAAHHHH. You need to relax my friend. We are APPARENTLY all on the same team here. 2nd guessing the MGR???? I simply replied to Jon's post. lets review......

Jon: Wouldn't we expect Duncan or Matsui to bat ahead of Cano?
DRU...I really think Cano should be our #5 hitter.

Jon was wondering why Cano was so high in the lineup, while I said I "thought" Cano should be even higher. No 2nd guessing, I was stating what I thought. Not sure how you twisted my statement up. As always, Im ready to back up my statement with the numbers..

Cano's 2nd Half

289 AB's
53 Runs
99 hits
17 2B
13 HR
57 RBI
24 BB
33 K
.343 AVG
.396 OBP
.557 SLG
.953 OPS

Cano had 617 AB's last year. Prorate those numbers over 617 AB's and you get...

113 Runs
211 Hits
36 2B
28 HR
121 RBI
51 BB
70 K

===========

Thats a Chase Utley line, you know the #3 hitter in the stacked Phillies lineup.

Im not sure why you continue to berate people on this blog and try to act superior? Don’t we root for the same team? Any opportunity you get to give it to the Yanks you do. A couple days ago you bashed the Yanks because they ‘might’ sign the GM during the season? Yesterday you bash the Yanks because its not a big deal they donated money to VT? Today you gloat about knowing more than anyone on this thread? What’s next? You bully and bash the fans that come on here and general statements that are not up to your ‘standard’? For what? To prove your knowledge? To prove your fandom? I just don’t get it Nudge.

DRU,

Tongue was firmly in cheek!

Well if you were just bustin chops I apologize, still though, the bickering over BS is getting old.

With a Straight Face

DRU,

I did not bash the Yanks about VA Tech, simply pointed out the fact that charity doesn't begin only in the Bronx. Expalin how that is bashing the Yanks. And yes I pointed out the double standard for contract extensions when it came to Cashman recieveing vs. Cashman offering. Another legitimate point. As stated many times, I will point out these errors or inconsistence as I see fit. If that is bashing the person that makes that statement....well then some people have a very thin skin. Not a single person has been at the recieving end of abuse more than I yet I NEVER get down to the name calling that is directed my way.

So I believe the relaxation is needed from where it was requested

Notice how the response was made without potty references or name calling or psychoanalysis performed. Why aren't you guys capable of the same?

Oh Nudgey,,,What fun would this site be if we didnt disagree?? Still like my fortune cookie told me today..."dont sweat the small stuff"

Does this count as our incident??

I dont believe I participated in "name calling or psychoanalysis". I am guilty of potty mouth though.

Dru,

No, you and Nudge don't root for the same team. He is usually taken to be a Mets fan, though he refuses to identify who he roots for...

anyway, whether or no, it would probably be as much to his benefit as to ours if he took his sour old self back to the pickle factory and 'shared' with others like himself...

Meantime, can't wait for the games to begin, I'm eager to see the next installment for the greatest sports franchise in history!!!

Signed,

A happy *fan*atic for the Yanks

P.S. Thanks for the figures on Cano, can't wait to see if this is as big a year for him as I hope. I was one of those who complained bitterly every time he flailed away witlessly at the plate, but, as Jeter would say, it was only because I wanted to be able to cheer.

DRU

I guess its out of the way now. You know I never object to disagreement. Just tell me why. I don't intend on changing anyones mind but giving a different view point or perspective. I actually enjoy hearing others as long as they are thought out and you are willing to explain.

And I won't take that Nudgey stuff personally.
Thanks for the clarification Diane.

DRU,

Tongue....Cheek...OK

DRU,

And no you are not one of those who feel the need to go that route. But sometimes you are a minority. The odd things is often it is between others on this site that it occurs and NOT directed at me. I find that confusing.

Nudge...got it ; ). Next time give me a ; ) or LOL or LMAO so I know its a joke...like

Diane...

pickle factory....LMAO

Now that was a sniper style "name calling". Yeah Im thrilled about Cano this year. I know I may have killed my chances in getting him in the Newsday Fantasy league by showing my hand, but who cares about that stuff..right Diane??? lol

Im a Yankee Fan 1st...then a fantasy fan.

Nudge....I see that a lot. Im still relatively new to the site, but Im picking up on certain patterns.

OK enough Dear Abby material…lets get back to business, good stuff about a couple forgotten Yanks, Karsten’s and Rasner.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080227&content_id=2392969&vkey=spt2008news&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

I liked to see Karstens bouncing back and pitching well in the international competition. Dice-K didn’t pitch that well in the tourney.

“Karstens accepted an invitation to join Team USA overseas in Taipei. There, he went 2-0 to help his country bring home a gold medal and led the team in wins, innings pitched (13) and ERA (0.69).”

Not sure how they fit in with the rest of the young RHP's, maybe if they pitch well, we can package some of them together for something.

DRU,

I think Karstens may be kept around as an emergency starter at least till the team knows what the young...er starters are going to do. If Hughes or Kennedy aren't impressive they may need Karsten to slot in. That is provided he himself makes the team...and avoids those linedrives up the middle.

I have to agree w/ Nudge. I'd like to see Karstens sticking with the team as he is a nice option to have in the rotation. Let's face it, there are so many unknowns in the rotation that the Yanks would be wise to keep as many healthy bodies around as possible.

Jim A,

Unless the team makes a trade for a veteran pitcher. Then they could move him.

Very true...I think Girardi says something similar in that article. Jeff looked good last year in ST ( I know its just ST ), he could at least be a nice long relief option. There is power in numbers.

That sounds like a campaign slogan...There is power in numbers.....

Karstens will either be the long man coming out of the pen or in the Scranton rotation come April.

Even if Kennedy and/or Hughes "aren't impressive" as Nudge says, they are still going to be in the rotation. The organization has made a huge commitment to these kids and everyone knows they have to be patient because it is inevitable they are going to endure some growing pains.

It wouldn't make any sense at all to quickly abandon that plan if/when they struggle. Unless they encounter a Mussina-esque stretch where they are just getting annihilated for several starts in a row - Hughes and Kennedy are in the rotation to stay.

Well, that is until they need to sit to keep their innings in check.

Nudge,
I have to admit I'm surprised that the Yankees haven't hit the panic button and signed a veteran by now. I penciled them in to sign some reclamation project like Freddy Garcia or Eric Milton because even though they've proven they believe in the kids, I thought they would get cold feet somewhere along the way and start worrying about eating up some innings or filling in rotation spots when an injury occurs.

I am a jackazz

Viper...as always it seems, I couldnt agree more. No doubt there will be a couple ( the less the better ) up's and down's for the kids this year. The best way to learn is by experiencing some failures 1st hand and working through them. Every great SP has gone through that learning process..Peavy, Bedard, Santana, Lackey..all got hammered their 1st couple years in the bigs before they figured it out. To keep with the campaign slogan theme...WE NEED TO STAY THE COURSE!!! Sorry, couldnt resist.

Yanks61...I really appreciate your thoughtful comments; you are one of the reasons I continue coming back here. I’m also with you on your admiration of Diane.

Can’t wait to break down great Yankee wins…and vent after tough losses. I’m very happy HYD referred me to this site.

Viper,

I will clarify a bit more then. By struggle I mean they are 2-6 with 5.80 ish ERA's. I don't think any patience will tolerate that. If a young pitcher is getting lit up then you send him down I.E. Igawa, It happens all the time. Losing has a strange affect on preseason proclamations. Besides, when is the last time Cashman stuck to his word on anything. Or Hank for that matter.

I still believe the Yanks will bring a vet in before they break camp. It is very risky starting the season with 2rook in the rotation. Even though Hughes isn't technically a rook he really still is. Those are risks that teams with nothing to lose take. Not a team that has to win does.

this site is becoming the official 'kiss Diane's posterior' site. why must everyone feel it is necessary to congratulate her when she posts on here? from what i've read, all she does is pout, pant or tell everyone else what they should be posting when she doesn't like the subject. hey if she is single and you guys are trying for some action I can understand that.

Nudge,

Girardi will be more patient with the kids than Torre. I think that's a given. And, as I said, the organization has already made a huge commitment to letting these kids show what they can do by not pulling the trigger on the Santana deal.

Although I wholeheartedly agree with this philosophy, the organization has now made it's bed with that decision so they now have to sleep in it. For better or for worse.

If they don't make the playoffs this season - so what? They'll still be better off long term. Their run of postseason appearances have to end sooner or later.

I've said this a thousand times in recent months, the kids don't have to be spectacular to be better than last year's rag-tag squad who made 36 starts for this team (Igawa, Henn, Clippard, Karstens, Rasner, Wright, and DeSalvo).

Simply being average is a significant improvement.

I know Red Sox fans want to see these kids fail miserably, but I really don't think it's going to happen. Only injuries will stand in their way of becoming reliable major league pitchers.

Def interesting that Girardi's running his Opening Day lineup out there for this college kid game. I really like what Girardi's done. He recognizes that 200M payroll has taken away from the TEAM aspect of the Yanks - running their arses off - and playing them 5 innings the first ST game. I Like His Style.

Looking forward to rooting for homegrowns on the bump.

Been reading this for awhile now without really contributing - that'll probably end when the games begin. I don't enjoy cannibalizing on a baseball forum when no games are being played, as human nature appears wont to do.

Did anyone know that Bubba Crosby is in the Mariners camp as a spring training invitee? I just saw that on ESPN.com and it surprised me as I'd sort of forgotten about Bubba.

Poor Bubba...all heart, little skill.

sevrox - I like the shakeup happening in ST as well. We needed a fresh look. I think the vets were getting off too easily in recent years.

Viper - as Ive said before as well, making the playoffs is low on my list for this season. Making the playoffs the last 7 years got us nowhere,,,,its been even worse the past 3 years. Lets not worrry about how the Sox or Mets finish, let’s handle our own business.

Business for 08

- Keep the trio healthy
- Get their innings up
- Don’t over work them
- Shed dead weight
- Sign good young pieces in the offseason to complement the young core.
- Give Melk, Cano and Shelly the opportunity to improve
- Get the young studs in the bullpen ( Melancon, Cox, Sanchez )
- Find a couple reliable RP arms from the other 2 dozen youngsters.

If we also make the playoffs, it would be the icing on top. We really have to make sure we don’t overwork the kids and stick to the innings restriction plan. Look at what the Marlins did to Willis, he’s 26 going on 46. Prior and Wood suffered the same fate. I think the next one to go because of too many innings before 25 is Zambrano. We need to proceed with caution.

This is bound to be an exciting season. Even if not every one of the youngsters makes the rotation, we're definitely going to see something new. And besides the troika, I actually enjoyed getting to know the other new kids a little bit last year even in the middle of the hamstring debacle. Though they may not be the stars, I am still interested in seeing how guys like Karstens or Rasner do injury-free -- they certainly put their hearts into it. I know Igawa is generally despised but I still hope that now that he is accustomed to a bigger baseball and a whole new world he will show something more than we saw before, even if he only turns into good trade bait.

And after all I still believe that this team is virtually the same team that did so well in the second half last year and why should we assume that they can't do just as well in the months to come?

Diane,
I have been on record as having despised Igawa pretty much from the day the Yankees acquired him but nobody wants him to succeed more than I do. As long as he is a Yankee I will root for him to do great things, I just don't expect him to be a contributor to this team. I can't allow my hopes to be raised as I was not impressed with his pitching at all, not even when he was pitching in Japan.

This is the lineup we should have. I did not have go out to a secret dinner with the team's manager and other writers to get this elite early lineup. I got it the old fashioned way, I made it up!

Notice the teeny-tiny financial savings:

Noticias: Muchos juegadores habla lo mismo lengua! Increible!

Notice: No 16 year old children criminally stolen in a human rights violation from their parents and siblings in the Caribbean.

Notice only one potential crack addict: Okay, maybe two.

Notice only one player who beat up his manager after being pulled from a game in which he gave up 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 earned runs in less than ONE inning.

RF: Josh Hamilton/Duncan
LF: Joe Ludwick
CF: Jeter/Josh Hamilton
SS: Eckstein/Jeter
3B: Cano (300 million saved)
2B: Brandon Phillips/Eckstein
C: Molina/Bard/Piazza (millions saved)
1B: Menky/Andy Phillips
DH Duncan/Giamb/Piazzai
LHP Lilly (33 million saved)
Closer: Joba (Many more millions "saved")

Dead Wood Gone

Mussina "Who would they replace me with"
Matsui (and Co. for Timmy, Matt Cain)
Igawa (46 mil, two wins)
Farns (Your comment here)
Damon (Too brittle, not hungry last year)
Abreu (bad first half, 16 million!)
Clemens (breaking rocks!)

Nice Guys We Like Gone

Mo (gettin up there)
Posada (Ditto, awsome person!)
A-Rod (TRULY a nice guy!!!!!)

Nice Guys still in NY

Andy Phillips
Mike Piazza

Any questions?

Yes, some of you may question Piazza's arm. But he's the best at calling a game and he is the best at blocking balls in the dirt. Remember always that he once threw out Mo Vaughn trying to steal 2B in an intrasquad game. (Mo had been up till 4 am drinking fruity drinks with little umbrella's in them.) As such, Piazza is more than capable of throwing a towel over a (then) naked Jessica (ex) Canseco.

Yankee tix go on sale this weekend. Check out http://www.tickex.com for tickets. They're one of those comparison sites who list hundreds of vendors so you can easily browse their site for the lowest priced ticket available.

http://www.tickex.com/search/artist/yankees-tickets

Jim A.,

I hear you, and I know how right you very probably are, but this is the time of year when I hope for the best from each and every Yankee, and maybe the most hope is for those who didn't show us much the first time around. Yes, Igawa. Yes, Edwar. Be wonderful.

nudge= jerk

Well baseball fans...

I know it is only a ST game, but NESN is televising tomorrow's Sox/Twinks game.....I will be "in recliner mode" with clicker in one hand and a "wee bit o' the ol' nasty" in the other, watching my boys kick off the season. Are the Yanks ST games being televised for you Yankee fans?

Hey...I know...it's a "meaningless" game...but it IS baseball, and with another 6-8 inches of that ******* snow coming tomorrow...I NEED to watch some baseball.

Casual,
I knew you loved your Red Sox but did you have to tell us that you.....well, hold yourself, while watching their games? I mean the clicker in one hand and "it" in the other is just too much information!

Hahahahah....just messing with you my friend. Yes, the YES network will be televising the Yanks tomorrow.

ALL YANKEE FANS,
Some ominous news to report and it doesn't sound good. Bobby Murcer is going in for a brain biopsy on Monday as the doctors have some concerns.
Keep fighting Bobby, you won the last round and you can do it again if you have too!

And just when I thought I could read more actual baseball-related headlines...

Jim A. - I saw that and just felt sick to my stomach. Just as I would of course for any other human, but especially for Bobby who is a big part of the Yankee family. I was watching BP at the Stadium when Murcer was first signed and they had him in the cage swatting line drives off the old scoreboard in right center. Everyone calling him the second coming of The Mick.

My wife (successfully) went through a serious bout of cancer and it is one of the most destructive things that can ever happen to someone, morally, physically, anyway you can think about it. Her bravery would put me and most other folks to shame. That it may be once again striking such a good, kind human being like Bobby makes it even more heart - wrenching.

DRU - thanks for the kind comments and the great good sense you have. I have a lot of wonderful memories from this game of baseball and it's nice to be able to share them with people who care about them.

I wish Bobby and his family all the best.

Yanks61...your wife, and all who have battled this deadly disease, are inspirations to us all. Makes you realize how insignificant the little troubles in life are.

Back to Baseball...

Last night I saw a commercial. The Sunday Daily News is giving out baseball cards every week of the "Greatest Yankee Players" by position. Daily News readers selected these greats. This is how it breaks down.

C = Yogi Berra
1B = Lou Gherig
2B = Willie Randolph
SS = Derek Jeter
3B = A-rod
RF= Babe Ruth
CF = Mickey Mantle
LF = Dave Winfield
SP = Whitey Ford
Setup = Catfish Hunter
Closer = Mariano Rivera
Manager = Joe McCarthy

I myself have questions about certain people on the list. Il be gone for most of the day, but would like to hear all of your thoughts. What would your list look like???

Long article on the Steinbrenner boys and the succession process in the Times, here's the link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/02/sports/playmagazine/02play-bronx.html

We've done this many times on this blog and the trouble is most of us haven't seen Ruth or Gehrig play and a lot of us never saw Mantle and DiMaggio either so you may have to set some guidelines, maybe call your list the greatest players of your lifetime, following that rule, mine would be:

C- Thurm
1B- Mattingly
2B- Randolph
SS- Jeter
3B- A-Rod
RF- O'Neill
CF- Bernie
LF- Winfield
SP- Guidry
Setup- Sparky
Closer- Rivera
Manager- Billy Martin
Since I was raised during the DH era, I'll include one:
DH- Reggie (O'Neill gets the nod in right because his defense was better).

Now I know this list is certainly not the greatest Yankees of all time but I haven't seen Yogi, Mantle, Ruth etc. so I can't say. If I were to refer to my history books I guess it would look like this:

C- Yogi
1B- Gehrig
2B- Randolph
SS- Jeter
3B- A-Rod
RF- Ruth
CF- DiMaggio
LF- Mantle (he has to be on the team)
SP- Ford
Setup- ? Don't understand why Catfish is listed, but I'll go w/ a true setup guy for the Yanks- Sparky Lyle
Closer- No debate about this.

It's already been said by a couple of different columnists, but I'll still repeat it -- baseball needs the voices of its clean and gentle heroes right now, and the Yankees couldn't have a better one than Bobby Ray.