On the Yankees beat

What is the assumed rotation to be for the bulk of the season?

In my mind it is Wang, Pettitte, Mussina, Joba, and whichever of the other youngsters succeeds in showing at least 3 reliably strong pitches by the end of ST. The other one can either be the 'spare' they're going to need to bring in to keep innings down for the kiddies, or go to the pen.

I think it is oing to be a six man rotation with the kids 4, 5, and 6.

Both Cashman and Girardi have already said in recent weeks that there will be no six-man rotation.

The rotation will be Wang, Pettitte, Moose, Hughes, and Kennedy coming out of Spring Training and Joba in the pen for a couple of months to keep his innings in check until he switches to the rotation in June.

We'll have to see just how things pan out when Joba is moved back where he belongs - the rotation.

I just hope they stick to the plan.

Obviously, an injury or two could derail everything just as it did last season, so let's hope that doesn't happen.

Matt C's question was 'for the bulk of the season', and that was what I was answering.

MattC,

Expect Wang to start the seasons as the number 3 starter, Pettitte as the number 4 and Mussina as the number 5. They dont have a number one or number two starter so the other slots don't really matter. They could have had a number one but they couldn't afford to give up the guy that everyone is hoping will be a solid number 4 to get him. Oh yeah they would have also had to give up Melky and without him then once the ball was hit to the outfield it would have to be run back in to the pitcher. So instead for the BULK of the season the pitching will just plain be pitiful. But at least this year you won't have to endure the post season collapses you've come so accustomed to being a Yankee fan.

When did the Yankees become the Atlanta Braves? Win in the regular season...no factor in the post season.

Its a good thing that Florida doesn't have a state income tax. Now at least Jeter doesn't have to settle with them too for not paying his taxes. I think its unfair that a guy who has a multi-million dollar apartment in Manhattan and spends a few weeks in Tampa is actually expected to pay NY state taxes. Just another organization that is out to get the Yankees. I mean 4 Million that could be going to the poor and disadvantaged in NY. All those poor kids who look up to him only to find that he has been holding out on them. Can't expect much more though on this team. Cheaters Liars and Crooks. Not to mention the pitching staff of fools.

Once again, at least the Yankees haven't missed the postseason since 1993.

On the other side of town, the Mets suffered the most humiliating collapse in MLB history by blowing a 7 game lead with 10 games to go.

And this little punk has the gall to come in here and rip the Yanks?

Um, 1986 was a really long time ago.

Talk about weak.

Hahaha!! Thats pretty funny. Now go and turn on the YES network and watch a past championship team on Yankeography or whatever its called. Since thats the only championship team you'll be seeing for a while. You always know when the fans know the Yanks suck bigtime...thats when they start to talk about the gloriesof the past.

It's kinda like talkin to the French.

Viper I too am skeptical and furious with the alleged Joba from Pen to Rotation "plan."

1. It makes no sense and has absolutely no precedent. (ATTN "Fact finders" please spare me the one time some idiot organization actually did pull this kinda thing off) Basically don't argue!! hah!!
2. It's NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN!!

R...i...g...h...t...

-So at some point in the middle of the season..

-Say the Yanks are 2 or 3 games out of-or in 1st place...

-Joba has been lights out in the 8th inning for roughly 8 weeks....(Highly plausible IMHO.)

-During which time he's probably racked a healthy amount of "holds" that resulted in W's that would've likely ended in L's had Girardi summoned the likes of Kyle, LaTroy or Brian.

But hey we've got the playoffs to worry about now and we don't have a number one starter...AGAIN!!!

I can hear it now!!!

DAVE EILAND-"Tell Joba to get his bags packed cause he's got a bus to catch!!"

"Melancon."
"Sanchez."
"Albendejo."
"Ohlendorf."
"Veras."

"Skipper wants yall to meet him in the club house..."

"Yall are gonna draw straws on who gets to replace them 8th innings while Joba turns into a butterfly for the playoffs"

Yes. Apparently (in my head) Eiland is an old Southern man from Kansas.

No seriously!!!

We're gonna use him in the 8th and then send him to Scranton for a couple weeks and "stretch him out" and bring him back as a starter...LIES!!

Sorry...That became a rant and possibly incoherent. I apologize but I get angry about Joba's situation.

I understand his innings limits but I don't see why we couldn't have him start every 6th day or skip a start against the bad teams or something of a similar nature.

Someone said it very plainly on the blog the other day(Viper ?) and though it is still just a hypothetical-(we've yet to see him start) it's still a very poignant statement.

"So if Joba is more valuable in the eighth inning than why isn't Boston letting Beckett set up for Papelface?"

The Mets give up garbage and get Santana and now Joba (our potential ace) has been banished to another year in the dungeon.

I'm a bit more optimistic that Joba will indeed be in the rotation as the team has said all along. I just really hope they stick to it.

The Beckett/Papelbon reference wasn't me but I echo those sentiments.

Newsday's own Ken Davidoff explained the situation perfectly in Sat morning's piece:

------------------------

Joba Chamberlain jogged to the mound Friday, and suddenly, if you looked toward Legends Field's fourth-floor windows, a crew cut emerged. "It's always fun watching Joba," Hank Steinbrenner said later.

The people agree, clearly, given the "Joba Rules" T-shirts floating around and the huge ovation the rookie (yes, he's still a rookie) received for his few minutes of throwing live batting practice.

The fans and Hank hunger for a World Series title, so the Yankees should make Joba a starting pitcher. Now. That decision will create the most likely path to the pennant.

The two basic premises behind the argument:

1) Once the Yankees open their season with Joba as their setup man - and that is very much the plan - I don't see how they extract themselves from that arrangement midway through the season and convert the 22-year-old into a starter.

2) As the Yankees have shown each of the last four Octobers, starting pitchers carry far greater value than relievers. Joba can be the Yankees' ace, their Josh Beckett, their C.C. Sabathia, which they have lacked.

Chamberlain threw well enough Friday, serving up his stuff to Hideki Matsui, Jose Molina, Eric Duncan and Jason Lane. Yet this space found his post-session comments even more telling.

"I threw some good changeups," he said. "The fastball was OK. It needs to be better. The curveball and slider were good."

That's four above-average pitches. That's the repertoire of a starter, not a reliever.

Last year, when he became an instant fan favorite with his work setting up Mariano Rivera, "Ninety-eight percent was fastball and slider," Joba said. "I think I threw three changeups and four curveballs. I didn't use them that much at all."

The Yankees understand that Joba is more than the next Scot Shields. "If he ever reaches his ceiling, he projects to be a frontline starter, or a closer," Brian Cashman said Friday. "That's the type of stuff he has."

The question is when this transition will occur, and that's all about controlling Joba's innings for the season. Though Cashman has refused to confirm Chamberlain's innings ceiling, it stands to reason that it will be about 140, given that he totaled 112 1/3 innings in the minors and majors last year, and young pitchers' workloads usually are increased by no more than 30 innings.

"If he starts at the front end [of the season]," Cashman said, "you're playing with fire."

But in this unorthodox season, with the Yankees breaking in not only Chamberlain but Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy, the Yankees are going to have to be very creative. They should employ a six-man rotation. The only starter who wouldn't benefit from that setup is sinkerballer Chien-Ming Wang, and perhaps he can start more frequently in an effort to give Joba even greater rest between starts.

As for the bullpen: Yes, Joba ruled last year, and the Yankees might have missed the postseason without his help. But good teams rebuild their bullpen year after year with fresh faces, and Cashman has put the Yankees in position to do the same with 1) a bevy of interesting arms and 2) a new manager, Joe Girardi, who will deploy the bullpen more intelligently than Joe Torre did.

"We've got a lot of competition out there," Cashman said. "Like every year, we have a little higher level of talent out there. It's knocking on the door. We just need some guys to hit.

"It's going to take a little while to sort out roles and who earns what. Joe and [pitching coach] Dave Eiland will work that out. It's always going to be the wrestling match, between winning a game versus managing for tomorrow at the same time."

It feels as if Joba carries more value as a reliever, because we see him more often. But how badly could they have used an ace starter against Cleveland last October? Or against Detroit in 2006? Or against the Angels in 2005?

It is indeed fun watching Joba. But for Hank, Cashman, the fans and everyone else, it will be far more fun winning it all again. Starting Joba makes that end game more likely.

Michael effectively demonstrates the ridiculous aspects of the plan being discussed. If the idea is to make Joba spend part of the season in Scranton, it would probably make more sense developmentally for him to spend the first part of the season there as a starter.

But since the Yankees have 'a bevy of interesting arms' and a new manager who allegedly is going to be thrilled to throw them all out there from the pen, one way of stretching the number of games Joba can affect while staying within a limited number of innings is to let him pitch only 5 or 6 per start. That is routinely done for aging pitchers, why not do the same for one on the other end of the age curve?

That would put his 'games pitched' somewhere in the mid-twenties, something like that?

Jim A, The answer to my prior post was President Reagan. He was in the booth as a quest when Bo hit his homerun. This starting pitching is pretty scary to me. I know you can't count on Mussina. I really think Cashmen dropped the ball by not trading for Santana. I think Wang, Pettitte are going to be fine. If Hughes is a stud (which i think its asking alot of him as a rookie) then the Yankees can be a playoff team. Otherwise I don't seeing them making the playoffs in a real league like the AL. That Met loser who posted here is just that a loser. They are the champions of May through August. Then the real colors of their team come out. Let them talk..i hope i am wrong about our team..maybe this will be like 96..where we didn't expect a World Championship..let the games begin!!!

Phil,
I agree w/ everything you wrote. I thought Santana was a must-have acquisition for the Yanks and would have turned the AL East around but, alas, they didn't do it.

I was one of those in favor of dumping the bump on a log, tea sipping, bench snoozer JT and replacing him with someone more active and involved like a Billy Martin type. And, I loved the decision of Joe Girardi over Mattingly for just that reason.

Joel Sherman has a nice story in today's Post that basically discusses this point and how Girardi is off to a good start with his "new" approach. The vets got a wake up call over the winter and I for one think it is going to pay big dividends, certainly for coming out of the shoot. Anyone else see a difference????

Rick, Hope you are doing well. What do you think about this season? I love the Girardi hire. Torre was great. But i think they need to hear a new voice. For me this season will all depend on two things. Our pitching and the health of outfielders. specifically Damon and Matsui. I am not worried about first base. I am holding out hope this season will be like 1996. I didn't expect a Championship then. Remember Cone got hurt and all season the "experts" said the Yankees didn't have enough pitching. I am really looking forward to this season.

Well take care!! Jim A i appreciate your comments. Let's hope that we are both wrong about Santana. If not this will cost Cashmen his job

Take care!!.

Phil

I share your sentiments on this year. I do think we made a big mistake by not getting Santana though. Like we all know, come October, it's pitching, pitching and pitching that makes the difference. And, Santana was the best AL SP, young, and LH. It's not like all the other stupid moves like RJ, Brown, etc. Those guys were washed up by the time we got them. Santana was in his prime and the dominant SP in the AL.

The kids are good, but with the innings limits and such, what does that bode for October????

The kids will have plenty left for October. They aren't going to run these kids into the ground during the regular season so that they'll have nothing left when it counts most.

I was against the Santana trade from Day 1. Hughes is not going to be a "stud" this season. I don't know who really expects that out of him.

The deal was not made for the long term benefits it would have on the team. Building from within and increased payroll flexibility over the long haul was the smart thing to do. There have been way too many long term busts that have bitten this team on the @ss in recent years, so it was time to conduct a different strategy.

The kids don't have to be spectacular to significantly improve the rotation. They just have to be better than the rag-tag squad of no talents that masqueraded as major league pitchers in their spare time in 2007.

Only two games separated the Red Sox and Yanks last season and Schilling has already gone down for at least half the season before the first pitch has been thrown. It appears the Yanks as a unit should be in much better physical shape than a year ago, so that can only benefit this team.

I don't expect Moose to have a stellar season, but I do expect him to be better than he was a year ago. Like him or not, the guy does have a lot of pride and seems to be in better shape this Spring Training. He’s going to get plenty of opportunities to avenge last year’s stinker.

Will that translate on the field?

Who knows. But Moose is a borderline Hall of Famer for a reason - the guy knows how to pitch.

I'm surprised at how little talk there is of Phil Hughes. If he stays healthy, he's a lock for 15 to 20 wins given the run support he should get.

The one thing the team does have going for it, in addition to Girardi as manager, is that many of the guys are in contact years (Giambi, Mussina, Abreu)! Nothing seems to bring out the best in players more than being in a contract year.

It should be relatively easy to judge the 'Girardi effect'. The team is basically unchanged from the second half of last season. If it does better this season than it did in the second half of last season for Torre, then Girardi is the difference maker.

If it does worse than it did in the second half of the season last year, then again -- Girardi is the difference maker.

(No point in comparing with the first half of last season -- unless Girardi also has 60% of his starting rotation on the DL.)

Rick – Good point about all the contract year guys. Add them to the usual standbys who put the numbers up every year (Jeter, ARod, Matsui), the continued emergence of Cano as a great star in the making, a resurgent, in shape Damon and a reasonable year from Posada (no one is expecting last year’s numbers), and the Yanks are offensively in very good shape.

Viper – I continue to admire your terrific posts. I think they’re ‘right on’ and extremely well written to boot!

So far the sportwriters haven't seemed to have a whole lot to say about Hughes in their stories or their blogs, except for George King who is so unreliable that we can't tell much from what he says.

Hughes was briefly hyped as 'Phil Franchise' last year but that sort of thing sort of fizzled when he didn't have the kind of rookie season that many hoped he would.

I think it will be to his benefit that the hype is less this year. That sort of thing can make almost anybody look like a disappointment and unreasonably so.

He's only 21. I hope he can develop in peace and uninjured this year.

Diane...

Couple great reads on Phil.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080222&content_id=2383953&vkey=spt2008news&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080224/SPORTS/802240361/-1/SPORTS

I like that he's under the radar as well..