Why some players choose 'getting mine' over winning
I saw that Sporting News story that ranked the NBA's most over-paid players. As most of you know, Stephon Marbury ranked No. 2. It's good off-season chatter fodder. Something to write and get people to discuss. It also needs to be analyzed.
I don't entirely disagree that Stephon's salary no longer rates with his performance level. But you have to also point out that this contract was given to him earlier in his career, when he was posting Big O-like numbers. His statistical comparables to Allen Iverson made Bryan Colangelo - who I consider an intelligent manager - agree to push Stephon over the $20 million-per-year plateau in Oct. 2003, when the Phoenix Suns signed Marbury to a four-year extension. (Note: at the time there were still two years left on the contract Marbury signed with the Nets in 1999, so the deal extends through the 2008-09 season).
It's on Isiah Thomas, however, for agreeing to take on that hefty contract. Back then, Isiah said New York was a point guard town. Now he says the Knicks should be a power team. The focus might have changed, but the contract remained and now it's even more of an albatross.
But back to Marbury...Iverson's numbers are still up there, with 26.3 points and 7.2 assists per game last season and a $20.1 million paycheck this season. Jason Kidd, the other highly-paid NBA point guard at $19 million, goes 13 points, 9.2 assists and 8.2 rebounds.
By comparison, the arguably best PG in the NBA, two-time MVP Steve Nash makes just $11.3 million. His career did take a little longer to erupt, however. Same goes for Tony Parker, a championship PG, who makes $10.5 million.
Let's leave them out of it, however, because they are different kind of players. Iverson and Marbury compare best. As does Baron Davis, who makes $16.4 million and averaged 20.1 points and 8.1 assists last season.
Steph's numbers declined dramatically since he became a Knick. Two seasons ago, it was Larry Brown's coaching that made Marbury's point averages dip under 20 (16.3) and last season it was Isiah Thomas' decision to focus the offense on the post and Eddy Curry which caused Marbury to again average just 16.4 points per game. Marbury's assists also dropped from 6.4 a game two seasons ago to 5.4 a game last season.
He's at the point now where his career numbers (20 points and 8 assists) are dipping below the Big O line. Going into this season, Marbury is averaging 19.9 points and 7.9 assists.
Here's where I have a point to make: Certainly you can argue that bang-for-the-buck, Marbury isn't the statistical value his salary suggests he should be. You can argue the "excuse" that Marbury has had to scale back his game since he came to the Knicks. What's indisputable is he did change his focus during the past season and started becoming more of a defensive player and someone who ran the offense instead of running plays (there is a difference).
Iverson is a physical freak of nature. For someone his size to keep going at the rack the way he does after all of these years is phenomenal. One thing he has going for him is he's light and wiry. Marbury is heavier and his body is taking the same kind of pounding. Clearly there is only so much knees and ankles can take and the wear and tear is starting to show on the 30-year-old guard.
So, no, at 30 years old, playing on a team that is focusing on low-post scoring, Marbury is not a good value at $20.1 million.
But here's something else to consider: you wonder why players are labeled as selfish? It's lists like this. No one wants to be known as overpaid. So a guy keeps an eye on his stats instead of making the play that's best for his team. Get mine first, then try to win the game. Because if we win, but I only get 12 points, they'll say I'm no longer able to score like I used to. They'll say I'm overpaid.
Marbury is a player who admittedly throughout his career lived by his stats and is now making the attempt to give up the numbers to play a role Isiah is demanding from him (and, it should be noted, Larry Brown wanted him to play all along).
The Knicks aren't going to be successful with Marbury as the lead scorer, Isiah made that clear when he made the shift to the low post (again, Brown also felt this way). So Marbury was asked to buy into the system that will retard his stats, but might also finally make him a winner on the NBA basketball court. When players hit 30, winning usually takes precedence over everything else.
So in this point in his career as a Knick, I don't care about Stephon Marbury's stats as they compare to his salary. What I care about is what Marbury does to maintain his value to the Knicks. A guy who gives you tough defense, smart veteran plays, the ocassional point explosion when needed (see: last year in Dallas) and runs the offense selflessly is what you want. If that guy can help lead the Knicks into the playoffs (it's a big if) and beyond, then $20.1 million is worth it.
If not, he'll be playing to Italian crowds in two years anyway.
* *
Ken Berger has started the coverage of the Isiah Thomas vs. Anucha Browne Sanders sexual harrassment trial,, which is set to begin on Monday. Sounds like it's gonna get ugly...
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Comments (77)
20 million is too much for anybody other then Kobe and Lebron. But Marbury is an excellent point guard and we need him to win this season. We do have Collins and Nate for the future. So the team is set and Isiah did a good job.
It doesn't really bother me that Steph makes 20 mill. Not as much as it bothers me that James make 5 mill. That should be plenty of money to get the splinters out of his a$$ ! I'm really hoping that one of our up and comers ( DNick) doesn't have to suffer so fatboy can ride the pine. I'd actually rather see Cato keep a spot over him.
Good post alan.
the Dallas game was one of my favorites. loved the dunk by balkman on harris.
Another name you could have easily kicked around in comparison to Steph is Chauncey Billups. I don't know what his salary is, but here are his stats side-by-side with stephon's from last season.
Chauncey Billups
17p 7a 1.2 st 2to 42.7%fg 34.5%3pt 88%ft
Stephon Marbury
16.4p 5.4a 1.0st 2.4to 41.5%fg 35.7%3pt 77%ft
Chauncey gets all the credit in the world for being a winner (NBA title in '04, current PG for olympic team) where as Stephon gets the reputation of being a career looser with high stats and even higher salary.
I'm just not buying it. These players don't make up the contracts on their own, GMs do that. Much of this perception stuff is circumstantial. Billups had a great team that year they won it. that team was filled with role players, and they had just the right combination of chemistry and experience playing together. If Stephon is a looser by the media's standards, then so is AI, so is KG, so is Paul Pierce, there are many that are paid tons of money and have not won anything. Jason Kidd hasn't won anything and his reputation is worlds better than stephon's. Vice Carter ring a bell?
If people still think Nash has an opportunity to win, which everybody does--including those bogus predictions by formula--then I suggest Stephon has that same opportunity currently, especially since he three full years younger than nash and a year younger than Billups.
By the way I'm glad the knicks got rid of Larry Brown. he's a media-obsessed snake in the grass--nobody in the nba is even thinking of employing him at this moment. 23 wins. What a disgrace to the franchise and to the city of new york.
and if the knicks don't do some damage this post-season, then there should be some more changes made. Chicago rebuilt in a shorter period of time than it is taking NY, and that is unacceptable.
I basically agree with everything you just said Alan. Sure Steph is now probably 'overpaid', but who cares? He's playing well. My one concern with Steph last year though was his ability to feed the post. He just always seemed to have a hard time doing it, and I guess its becuse he wasn't used to it. I really hope he worked on it in the offseason. There were plenty of times where Curry seemed to have position, and Steph was just not in the right place to give a good bounce pass. That worries me.
I have to disagree with Rush though that we are set for the future. Nate is certainly not the PG of the future, or a PG at all for that matter. And Mardy, while looking good last year, has a lot more to prove before I can relax about our PG play down the line. What I do like about Mardy is that he is a patient player, makes the right plays and the smart passes, and doesn't try to do too much. What worries me about him is that, he may not try to do too much because he may not be able to do too much more. That is left to be seen. And if this is the makeup of our team, it would be nice to have a PG with an outside shot, which so far Mardy lacks.
Speaking of comparisons to Iverson though, I aslways thought Nate's game (not skills) are an exact replica of Iversons. He should study the way Iverson got his assists up by just charging the rack and then making an easy pass to a ready big. Sure, Iverson dominated the rock like nobody else so that will inflate his numbers, but he was able to get high numbers in assists without being a terribly gifted passer because he could get to a spot before anyone else. Thats what I'd like to see with Nate.
Lastly, I actually don't get the difference between running the offense and running plays. "The plays" and "the offense" seem to be the same thing. I understand the difference between running plays (giving the ball to who is supposed to have it in any given set) and being a playmaker (dominating the ball to get other guys open). Maybe that is what was meant? But to me running the offense and running the play is the same thing. Its "making" the play that I could see as being different.
Any insight?
too bad youtube doesn't have the msg version, which was better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd0pDgNKwNU
in my opinion, this was the game that broke NY's spirit. they were in the playoff hunt, and on the road coming into dallas, probably the best team in the league at that point. they played as best they could, and were winning the game at times. they gave it their everything, and couldn't come away with the win. New York didn't recover. If they would have won that game it would have carried over into a playoff berth IMO.
I deed, I also half to get mines. Now what about zis T.O.?
Running the offense involves more things then running a play. Overall offense has to do with executing the game plan, things like controlling the tempo of the game, time of poseesion, and making adjustments as a team to counter what opposition is doing.
Stuff like that.
"Marbury is a player who admittedly throughout his career lived by his stats and is now making the attempt to give up the numbers to play a role Isiah is demanding from him (and, it should be noted, Larry Brown wanted him to play all along)."
It's one thing to demand a style change from a player. It's a whole 'nother thing to inspire change in a player.
LB got the axe because he could not bring this set of players to buy into his system. I still haven't gotten the bad taste out of my mouth. What a terrible season to watch unravel. I think I'm traumatized.
"What I care about is what Marbury does to maintain his value to the Knicks. "
Hear that? That's the sound of the nail being hit on its head.
I'm off to read that "its getting ugly" link...later Alan, thanks for the topic update!
In-depth post AH! Thanks for the historical perspective during Steph's career so far and for ocmparing apples to apples in terms of his game with Iversons. AH you're LIVING IN THE MOMENT and I commend you!
"It's one thing to demand a style change from a player. It's a whole 'nother thing to inspire change in a player." Way to go BARF! You don't need to take those lithium pills any more for your trauma...LOL
I let my perscription run out after they fired LB'S azz...LOL
Keep it POPPIN
the recap of the dallas game alan mentioned:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=270330006
Milicic goes off???
If one of you understands his language, please translate.
The Saga Continues for Mutombo. He signed on for one more year with the Rockets.
Yao, Dik, Scola, Bonzi Wells, Mike James, Steve Francis, Luther Head and Tracy McGrady?
WOW.
plus, Adelman's offense...am I crazy to pencil them in to a championship?
plus, Bob Sura's absurd contract is finally up. Where was his name in yesterday's overpaid list? He hasn't played in years.
Everyone can predict the way they want but the Atlanta Hawks are not playing around this summer. Joe Johnson basically told the team to come in early for training camp. Read the article here.
By the looks of it, Eastern Conference basketball is back.
At SLAM, DVJ's second favorite topic comes up again. No, not Kobe. That's his first favorite. The Dream Team comparison is up again and evidently, this guy has "the Final Word". Maybe. Not if DVJ can help it.
Where u at Davonn? Getting to sleep early this week?
Yo BARF,
I had a friend do some translating for me. Here what he said:
Serbian curses are extreme and cannot be literally translated, because we say stuff that doesn't make sense in English. But if you were to do a literal translation, it would go like:
Darko: "These 3 sh*thead referees robbed us, that's what happened, I'm gonna f*ck em up all 3 of them, mothaf*ckas all 3 of them, f*ck your mom conceded Italian bitch, that's all I have to say...
Reporter: "Darko, relax, impressions of the game...
Darko: "He's a sh*thead man, suck my d*ck a little, write that down, all 3 of them, the first, second and the third, I don't give a f*ck who they are, write that down."
Reporter: "you guys really fought in there..."
Darko: "Fought? Those muthaf*ckas didn't whistle anything they sh*tted their pants, I'm gonna f*ck his wife... if he has a daughter her too... they didn't make any calls..."
You get the idea...
It should be noted that he didn't threaten to "murder" anyone, as incorrectly reported on other blogs....
Golden State's Jasikevicius on the trading block?
LMAO
Darko's a thug.
Thanks STOPMIKELUPICA
O.K. Alan,
What gives? What's with the child psych blog. I've been reading for a week now. Your the opposite of every NY Sportswriter (no offense Ken). But honestly, rational thoughts and non-bias writing. How far are you going to get with this? In the meantime don't stop.
One question Dr Phil. Does Zeke get a hard time because it's NY, or because he survived Brown, and what he said about Larry Bird being "just average" of a player being hyped because he's white. I mean, do writer's have short memories or what? O.K. Two questions. If the Knicks win a title while Isiah is GM/Coach, where does that place him all time winners. College player, NBA player, NBA Coach/GM.
Thanks and glad to have ya.
AH, If you continue to wirte objective, intelligent, well thought out commentary about basketball your peers are going to ask that your press caard be taken away from you. Thanks for looking at things that are not obvious.
Those translations were outrageousely funny. Who would have thought that Milowhimp would be such a thug.
Objectivity from from a member of the New York sports media, this is a revolutionary event akin to Galileo telling those self righteous Medieval inquisitors that the sun is the center of the universe. I fear for AH's safety. But don't worry the fixer's have your back.
Alan
I am wondering IF Zeke had to make the same trade for Steph today...would he pull off that trade? We NOW need a PURE point guard and a strong leader.(Does not have to be one player.) I like Steph and his skills big time,but I don't see him as a TRUE point guard...more of a scorer( would like to see him @ the 2 spot more this year).I also hate to say,but he may not be the best person to LEAD this team in the locker room. Q did step up to that role some last year.The Bulls had Jordan, The Lakers had Magic, The Heat had Shaq. Who is our someone who will step up and lead our Knicks? By example. By practicing hard.Who will do what Joe Johnson it today.....and get this team together, not waiting till the end of the month. Steph has had his changes to be a leader and he is not doing it.So for that....he maybe overpaid.
That said, I still would pick him on my team everyday of the week and twice on Sundays...Just not as my leader.
Just for the hell of it, what would u all say your favorite garden moment at a Knicks game would be ? I think everyone on the blog varies in age so I thought the answers would be interesting.
Seeing as I don't go to many games (but never seem to miss one on tv), mine would have to be when I brought my dad back in 2003 and Houston poured in 50 against the Bucks. I was 14th row center for that game. Great game.
Correction
"what Joe Johnson did today"
I'd say the greatest Garden moment for me...and the one I took with me to the playground with pride...was John Starks dunk over Michael and the Bulls. I remember laughing in the face of every Bulls (anti-Knicks) fan who had the misfortune to meet me on the ballcourt that day. I gloated. I boasted. I mocked.
Great day.
This story's a bit old but good nonetheless. Enjoy a sit down breakfast with Bill Russell, winner of 8 championships in a row...13 overall and the first black coach in the NBA, if I'm not mistaken.
Can someone please explain how Mehmet Okur was an all-star last year whilst Eddy Curry wasn't? was it simply a matter of team records?
It must have been, because I would have had zach randolph on the western conference team over okur as well.
Shaq should have never been on that team. stupid nba is flawed, letting mindless, clueless fans vote the starters in. In the east it should have been curry and dwight howard as the centers.
Shaq had played all of 4 games going into the all-star break.
@BARF
That would be my favorite Garden moment also....also went ill over Camby's in-your-face dunk over Mutombo in the 99 playoffs,in Altanta. not a Garden moment.
@Starburyfan
I got your back on that, I think EC played a better 1st half than Shaq...who did not player much...he is just popular with non-real NBA fans.And we weren't winning many games.I don't think that should matter...compare PLAYER 2 PLAYER, not team 2 team.
J Q,
These are my three favorite Garden Moments.
1) is Game 7 Knicks Lakers 1970. Willis walks out, hits first two shots, everyone knows the rest of the deal,
2) The Dunk
3) Game 4 1999 playoffs Knicks sweep Hawks. Crowd of which I was a part screams Jeff Van GUndy!!! Jeff Van GUndy in support of then embattled coach. This one is very personal to me. I was living out west then. Was only in NYC because of family matters. My Dad had died seven weeks prior. My mom was in the hospital in critical condition. As soon as I walked in the house after the game that night got call from hospital my mom had died. One of the last things my Dad and I did was watch Sunday April 4, 1999 Easter Sunday game against the Heat. dad died next day April 5,1999. MOm died after the Hawks game of which I speak. Trying times for your truly but our Knicks helped ease the pain.
Truly KFFL!!!!!!!
Kevin,
I think u got to see what msg tabbed as the 5th and 1st best moment in the garden period. Your hardcore. No wonder everyone here refers to you as the authority on all things Knick. I was born the year Willis did his legendary walk to the court. That must've been something. I get chills watching it on classics.
JohnQ, great question!
Kevin Harewood, I'm feeling you baby, stay strong!
My All-Time Garden Moment is Ali-Frazier Numero Uno...
Knick related, definitely 1970 Championship verse Lakers and Willis Reed appears..
Gotta bounce fellas!
speaking of Garden momonts they are replaying Crawfords 50 point game on MSG channal NOW!!!
I hope that Thomas does give Jefferies another shot at starting in the block with Curry and Zach!
He may just do what Thomas brought him to do this year! If not, it's easy for Zeke to pick another senario, owning the deepest bench in the NBA! Time to put last year out of our minds and start where Summer league left off! To me we are 5-0 on this season, thats my mind set! I could give a shyt who in he media thinks where we'll end up! We have enough Knowledgable believers right here within this blog! We know the real deal! Next goal? undefeated in preseason! Then go from there!
Favorite Garden moments:
1) Willis, 1970; enough said.
2) Bernard King's one-man wrecking crew in the Detroit playoff series. NO ONE in blue and orange has ever played better basketball.
3) Patrick's turn-around jumper from the corner, which sealed the game to beat the Celtics in the playoffs.
4) Alan Houston's shot vs. Miami in the playoffs.
5) Kenny Walker's Slam Dunk Championship (The cupped-360-tomahawk-windmill is the most underappreciated dunk in the history of the competition.)
Personally, Going to the Game 3, Knicks-Rockets 1994 Championship. Space Alien Sam Cassell stole the show, but out of all the Knicks games I've been to, the intensity and energy have never been matched.
John Q,
Season ticket holder here; many big moments in the Garden. However, none greater than LJ's left handed first step and pull up for three and a foul!
There was the L symbol and Childs trying to calm LJ down to nail the free throw . Fans, who moments earlier, were standing in the aisles for a quick exit from an apparent painful playoff loss, were running around the section hi-fiving each other. It was bedlam and I had goosebumps.
Knicks vs Detroit on MSG right now. The 3 ot game its awsome. Jeffries is an idiot made about 3 mistakes in a row late in the game. He stinks.
Jeffries seems like a timid fellow who belongs in Portland with Frye and those soft cats.
Agee, Rush.
I'm watching....missed it while out of the country. Could not believe the numbers when I saw the next morning.WOW!!
In case you missed it:
http://www.kennywalker.com/kenny/images/Slam%20Dunk%20Comp/dunk%20contest%201989.JPG
at least jeffries is playing.
Q is sitting baseline in a suit with chronic back problems.
I'm not hating on Q either, just don't like it when people write off Jared Jeffries. I'm 100% certain Q's first season on the knicks was as bad as jeffries was last season.
John Q - I thought you asked about games we'd attended. If so, then I had the great privilege to be at one of the Detroit play-off games when Bernard averaged - I believe - over 40 for the entire series. The night I went I think he had 45 or 46. I'd heard the phrase "in a zone" before. And I'd heard Magic talk about "winning time." But I didn't understand what either of them really meant until I saw Bernard that night.
Jeffries is useless. Wouldn't you rather see Chandler on the floor? Comon. Chandler needs to get playing time next season. Cant wait to see him do well. F Jeffries.
My favorite Garden moment(King is my all time favorite Knick) would have to go to a memorial playoff game, in the Bullets/Knicks playoff wars! I don't remember the exact game but I was an early teen and watched the "Pearl" destroy my beloved knicks, twirling for layups, and releasing that "circle twist" shot midway during his twist....all net! When he wan't releasing that shot, he would spin by every single knick and embarass the whole team as he finger rolled it softly in the hoop! I believe he had like 40 points and beat us at home, but the Knicks always won the series! The pre-Knick Pearl was the one player I feared worst than any other when he played against the Knicks! Those series were wars that always came down to a last second game winning shot! Maybe the most overlooked rivalry because the Knicks always prevailed, but those wins were the nail biters!
Rush,
Stop the Lupica impersonation! Jefferies played a major role in the little turn around our club had last year after bringing the team together going after yellow Melo! I believe if he hadn't broke his wrist, he would of been more insync! He's not a scrub, give the Kid a chance for christ sake! Remember, he's a modern day player that would of put Bird and Magic on the bench! lol
Major role? As oppose to whom? Dont buy it.
Rush I have a question for you. With your starting line up (SM, JC, Q, ZBO, EC), where does the scoring come from off the bench ?
You said that Crawford collapses the oppositions defense and opens up other players. Doesn't that set up the whole second line for scoring ? Don't we have enough people that have to be double covered on the 1st line (EC & Zach)? We have all the scoring we need on the starting unit. Why would you start Crawford when that would make our defense shorter ? Q can play the 2 at 6'6" and JJ will play SF at 6'10". This would finally give us an advantage against the much improved east. Do you feel more comfortable w/ a 6'6" (shooting guards average height) defending the likes of Pierce, Carter, Lewis et al. or a 6'10" guy known for defense ? He had trouble adjusting to a new system after breaking his wrist before the season really began. Give the guy a break (not the other wrist though).
Favorite Knick for me is definitely Bernard. I never saw Clyde and Willis either. I can still visualize BK going down with the Achilles tendon which set us back forever. BK and PE together would have been special. Then the Knicks cut him when he returns and forces him to the Bullets. He deserved better treatment, especially all of those playoff games he won by himself.
Just for the hell of it, what would u all say your favorite garden moment at a Knicks game would be ?
The favorite moment I was at the Garden to see wasn't a playoff game, or a big game. Just a regular season game in February '97 against Phoenix.
Starks hit a buzzer-beater to win the game. The ball seemed to hang in the air forever before it dropped - and when it dropped, the crowd went wild, all at once, loud as all hell.
I was sitting at the opposite end of the court and saw the shot go up, and then the entire Garden erupt when the shot fell.
Like I said, it was just a regular season game, but it's one of the the most exciting moments I've ever seen at the Garden.
Kevin H: I was in the house for that Charlotte game, chanting 'Jeff Van Gundy!' That was great, and it was sweet to see a sweep in the playoffs.
rush,
It is precisely the fact that Isiah drafted two additional, very competent small forwards (Chandler, Nichols) that makes me think the Knicks have some reservations about Q's back surgery recovery. It can be said that Isiah likes roster redundancy, but this is absurd--how many SF's on one squad could possibly be needed? Again, I hope Q is 100% recovered and ready for a big season in NYC.
I know what I saw last year, and I stand by Jared Jeffries as a true knick warrior that I like on this team. maybe if we make the playoffs this year he'll change your mind. whatever.
...And this first taste of pre-pre-season haterade is brought to you from an unlikely source--the usually neutral New York Times' Glen Beck.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/07/sports/basketball/07marbury.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1189138690-dCUIGCbeFSqbF847wPNqXw
An article about Stephon that implies that something is mentally wrong with Stephon. Highlights from Stephon's popular summer interviews are cited in support of this theory. Sure, Beck mentions Stephon's recent good deeds, to show you that he's "fair and balanced," but I didn't care for the overall tone of the piece, which was your average everyday Isola hater. I'd expect a little more than that from the New York Times, but I know how lazy some of the Knicks beat writers have become lately. This article is basically yesterday's news--if not last month's.
I don't know, I don't really respect these guys any more. They just seem like old scrubs. You can't convince me that all of these writers know much more about the knicks than some of the fantastic bloggers online--yourselves included. I for one would prefer to read the words of someone who regards my team in the same light as I do. I'm not blind, I know the knicks have problems, but they aren't the worst team in the league, as they would have you believe. They may be hopefully over the cap but how often is a major market team under the cap?
When it comes to the Knicks, the Times is usually about as opinionated as college algebra textbook, so I guess I'm asking too much for them to report on knick affairs as if there were local Knicks fans buying their newspaper.
Alan, thus far, I think you and Ken Berger do a fantastic job of covering the Knicks with fresh style and class. Marbury messed up again, and you broke the story. That's fine, he said what he said. I knew it would be a fiasco. I know you may not appreciate me talking smack about your colleagues (they are, incidentally the competition as well), but I'm glad we have Newsday, because I simply refuse to buy their newspapers anymore. I don't think they're doing a good job, quite frankly. I'm pretty sick of the toxic negativity they engulf the team with. It probably does stem from Dolan, but what can we do about it? We certainly don't want to read about it on a daily basis, as is the case at the Daily News. Berman, the grill, Isola, now Beck. If you've read one of them, you've read them all.
I have lived in other NBA towns with worse teams that were more loved by their local writers (Namely Orlando, but I'm certain there's more love in some of those other towns). Its a shame, the last blog I frequented before bailing, there was a guy who's handle was Anti-NY-Sports-Media, so you know there are readers out there that feel the same way.
I guess these writers just feel there is no market for these readers.
*correction* Howard Beck
My apologies for that slip, and also for ragging on your friends.
What's up my people!!
My favorite Knick moments were in no particular order...
Houston game winner against Miami in playoffs.
Ewing shot against the Celtics in Boston to win it.
Greg Anthony coming off the bench in a polka dot shirt with a cast on his hand to fight in Phoenix.
Oakley and X man fighting before X became a Knick. It was hilarious....you can even youtube that one....
The phantom timeout call we got in Miami when Sprewell was trapped on the baseline...
I hate to say it but when Childs 2 pieced Kobe in LA that was pretty cool also...
Even though I mentioned the game already...In 99 when we beat the Heat....was it just me or when Sprewell was walking around the Miami arena with the Knick towel in both hands raised over his head...it made me feel so good!!!!!!!!
Then to make it even better...when the camera panned to the crowd and we saw Spike Lee with all the Italians from NY with the SUPER GIGANTIC Knick Flag waiving in the first row.....I was about to blow my load LMAO !!!!
That was probably the sweetest I felt as a Knick fan because I TRULY, TRULY, TRULY hate the Heat!!!!
That's why when someone here mentioned us getting PJ Brown...I almost threw up in my mouth.
I still think we would've beat the Spurs if Ewing didn't get hurt. No...I know we would've beat the Spurs....
Sprewell was on fire in that series!!!
That's ok because we'll be saying de ja vu to ourselves this year...
Kevin Harewood, I feel your pain man. Thanks for sharing that with us.....very deep and uplifting stuff !!!
I can smell the season right around the corner.
Unfortunately I don't remember to many B King moments but I did see the the tapes and I'm sure I didn't see all the games. I would love to just sit back one day and watch King and his career.
As far as the starters...I say we bring Jamal off the bench for that extra scoring punch. Isiah is going to start
Marbury
Q
Jeffries
Zach
Curry
I don't see what the big deal is or why it's so hard to figure out.....
This was going to be Isiah's starting line up last year but Jeffries got hurt before the season.
That is the best line up for us...think about it...
Crawford, Lee, Balkman Nate, and Collins off the bench. That's what you call an excellent rotation.
Only way it should be different is if we get Artest....then you could just swap Jeffries out the starting 5 and replace him with Ron.
Jamal, Lee and Balkman coming behind (no homo) that starting 5 may be top 3 eight man rotations in the league. If Morris keeps progressing our future is set. We don't have to make any trades.Isiah has done a fantastic job putting together a team of talent.
I think this is the year where we will see all the hard work paying off. A lot of those games we lost last year were by 3 points or less. We'll see how those turn out with the left handed beast on the block with Curry.
Did anybody watc the Knick faves tonight?
I almost forgot how dominant Curry is in a game...
He literally controls the offensive end like it's nothing. His defenders look helpless against him.
Him and Zach down low together...let's not forget that Zach is a better post player than Curry. See people really don't know what we got with Zach. He is going to be an all star this year...I guarantee it. NY is going to come out and vote for Zach because he will be that dominant.
I saw an article where they said eventually Zach will become the franchise player for the Knicks...
I don't doubt that for one second....
Obviously Isiah couldn't start Zach last year so he would've started Frye.
Isiah is very high on Jeffries, even though he would include him in a deal for Artest.
As far as Marbury goes....we all know he's overpaid.
But why do we blame the players for that?
When Marbury signed the contract he was the only player in NBA history besides Oscar Robertson to average 20 and 8 for their career.
I look at it like this...If Marbury is overpaid...all the players in the league besides Kobe, Lebron and Wade are overpaid. If you can't take your team to a championship you are underpaid.
When you stop to think about how much money the teams make off the players...NOBODY IS UNDERPAID!!!
These teams make so much money it's hard to imagine someone being underpaid.
Garnett makes waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to much money for someone that can't even take his team past the first round. The Celtics are now stuck with his contract just like the Heat are stuck with Shaqs.
Let's not even talk about Shaq and whether or not he's overpaid....
I really can't believe that Isiah and the Garden are taking this sexual assault case to trial. So much information is going to come out.
I still think they may settle. I don't care what a source says about it being 100 percent....when it comes to the court system..nothing is 100 percent until the judge brings that gavel down.....
We will see what happens....if Isiah is smart he would try to convince Dolan to settle this.
What if Isiah really did do something but he's lying to Dolan saying he didn't? Similar to the Vick and Arthur Blank situation.
Hey a wise man once told me...."you always take your lies to the grave with you"
Now, I'm not a liar but that sounds like a good quote.
Jameka is so sexy!!!
The problem with starting Q in the back court (instead of Crawford) with Steph is that the other team would apply full court press. We would have only one reliable ball handler (Steph) and thus unable to advance the ball.
Q is without a doubt a better defender than Crawford, but he cannot dribble the ball to save his life. Therefore, we would have 3 guys (Curry, Zach, and Q) in the starting line up that cannot handle the rock. Teams would press the hell out of the knicks every game.
Secondly, Crawford is way better than Q or Steph at feeding the post and giving Curry those easy alley oops.
The only thing Q does better than Crawford is playing defence. Don't get me wrong defence is very important to winning games. But, I don't care how much defence we play, if we can't advance the ball up the court to score a basket. The last time I check you need to score to win a basketball game.
Crawford and Steph have to play together because they compliment each other very well. Marbury can gaurd SG while Crawford gaurd the PG depending on the match up. However, with some matchup (especially big SG), we will need Q to play more minutes than Crawford.
I agree with the guys that say Q should not play the small forward position this year. His surgically repaired back might not hold up against the pounding from those stronger players.
By default, I think JJ should start at SF with Balkman and Chandler backing up. I believe JJ have to start to be a productive player. Balkman and Chandler can be very effective bringing energy and a change of pace comming off the bench.
Therefore Crawford should start, with Q, Nichols, and Jones off the bench.
Curry and Zach starting with Lee, R. Morris, James backing them up.
Steph at point with Collins and Nate backing him up.
This is our best chance to be a balance team that maybe able to make the playoffs. We have to mix and match our players base on how they fit together and not on just their talent level. We have to be a TEAM.
I can't wait for some Knicks basketball. A Knick fan for life.......
We should use Rose as a coach and let Dickau walk. If we can make a trade, then that would be a better option.
I am only keeping that big over paid James for gaurding Shaq, Yao Ming, D. Howard, G. Oden and any 7 footers in the league. James is a waste of height and all he is is 6 fouls against the above name Centers.
I hope he is not just sitting around eating junk food and drinking milk. Maybe he can give us one good season before his contract is up.
I wish we could take players salaries back.....How is he not on that list of most overpaid players.
James doesn't deserve minimum wages for what he gives the knick as a player.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, a Crawford, Balkman combo maybe ? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Zdid,
Only thing Q does better than Crawford is play defense.
Q is a more consistent shooter, a better rebounder and plays better defense. Defense and rebounding wins games period. Crawford is beyond a doubt more exciting but that excitement has contributed to exactly zero playoff appearances in his career. Chemistry is vitally important.
That said I'm for waiting to the preseason and letting that period decided who starts, who comes off bench and who is in at finish. Remember it is not who starts but who finishes that is second most important thing. MOst important is when they finish which team hs more points.
Harlemboy – It wasn’t an Achilles tendon. Bernard went down with an ACL tear – anterior cruciate ligament in his knee. I was also watching the night he went down. It was awful. We’ve all seen guys fall and it looks bad, but they’re walking it off 2 minutes later. He was writhing in pain. You knew it was terrible. I’ll never forget the pain I saw on his face.
But I’m also pretty sure he was the first pro athlete ever to come back from ACL surgery . . . he was great. A friend of mine who was a big Bernard fan, tore her ACL skiing around the same time. So I wrote to him, and he sent her a ton of funny fan stuff and a nice note.
Alan:
That was a good piece, but you had to go F**k it up by bringing up the dreaded "L" word. Not once, but twice!
Barf had a very good comment in relation to so-called leaders that want someone to do something. True leaders are the ones that connect with that individual, and make them want to do it FOR their leader. Big difference. Give the credit to Isiah, not to the snake for wanting Steph to do such. As the leader, your players should want to win For you, if not, you've already lost.
You reporters put Steph in such a unenviable situation; damned if you do, damned if you don't. Steph can score! If he does, he's selfish, if runs the offense like he's trying to do, he's lost it and can't do it anymore. Steph is still one of the better guards in the league. He has matured, and is now trying to play within the team concept. Give him credit.
Davonn; you made such a keen observation. You really have had some sleep lately. Why are the players overpaid? They are the ones that have to be up at dawn, be in the gym eight hours per day, leave their families for most of the year, be traded to whereever the owners choose, can't walk at the end of their careers, and they're overpaid?
In business, you can't pay what you don't make. The owners make a killing off these players. Why not do a list of the most overpaid owners? The ones that make a killing and don't spend to improve their teams. And please don't talk about franchises losing money. That's losing money on the books. A good accountant can make the most profitable company show a loss.
Don't get me wrong. These playes are compensated well, but overpaid? Naaah!
Fixers,
Checkin' in to keep my foot in IT.
A few thoughts:
Thanks BARF and Cooleyhigh, I thought we agreed never to type and discuss that former coach. I go into hives when I hear the name of that snake/backstabbing/disloyal/sneaky/feindish HOF. May his days be blessed wherever he goes FAR AWAY from NYK. So what if the former coach wanted SM to play as he's playing today? Guess it's a point someone had to make. BFD.
SM has been practicing his craft as a PG since he was 3 years old. Tiger Woods has been at golf for about the same time. They should make whatever amount a buiyng GM/President/Owner is willing to pay him. Too much for one player statements are "veiled" IMO. But we're just bloggin'.
Bernard King and The Big Fella. What a combo that would have been.
KFL
You attack the zone with the pass.A great ball handler may break the press once in a while, but sports, like much of life is about percentages.Intelligent passes produce lay-ups or easy shots against the zone, and nothing is better than a lay-up, with the sole exception of an unguarded foul shot from a cold blooded shooter.The problem with Jamal is two fold.One,he still takes bad shots, instead of better ones, poor percentage shooter.That said, he can get his own shot anytime he wants, like the last few seconds of a game.He can fix that problem by thinking and practicing, so all is not lost with him.Secondly, his D is terrible, but he is trying, so that too is fixable.Bottom line is he could get a lot better, given the right coaching (Clyde?).We also need more offense on the second crew because if we're not running Lee and Balk become offensive liabilities.That's why for their own good they have to put it up in game situation, standing 15-20 foot J's, and get the confidence to be more well rounded players.If they continue as is they will be spectacular career bit players forever.They deserve better.NY is a tough stage to work your problems out.Let's watch Frye on the smaller Portland stage.Lee and Balk don't have to be spectacular from the get, they just have to have the nuts to do what they probably do well in practice every day.Man-up fellas, it's your careers.Love Q and his game, but a guy with a reconstructed back, weighing 230 or so guarding quick guards will probably not work out longterm.I like the trade for, (a sane) Artest or a clone of the same sort because of his versatility.He,Q, Jeffries and Balk give me all kinds of combinations and insurance to cover the 2 and 3 and maybe the 4, depending on situations.Last thing, if you've been around this game a while you know while a last minute win against a great team is an accomplishment, just being in that position against weak teams says you're not making your freebies, foul shots, lay ups, etc.If you watch the old Celtics, their margin of winning against weak sister's was usually double digits.They hammered who they were supposed to.They rebounded,played D,were always in shape and worried only about winning, not who had the most points.The 2nd unit could build that margin. Why do I care what a player makes.That's between the GM, and the player.I hope he gets all he can, and then plays as hard as he can .It's not my business to protect Cablevision from itself.They're a 15 Billion dollar company so they must be doing something right.My buddy once asked me, "Why are you worried about a millionaire's money?He's not worried about you!".He was right.Love the Knicks, could care less about salaries.By the way, if you never saw Frazier and the boys vs. early Earl and the Bullets, treat yourself.That's the soul of the game.LGK
TRane you are indeed right. Bernard was the first athlete to come back from ACL tear. His surgery revolutionized all sports. Before him I remember Toby Knight who was coming on as a Knick in the late 70's. Went down in a heap career over instantly. Let to some really lean years. I think a guy named Eddie Lee Wilkins suffered a similar fate.
you guys mentioned Channing, also mentioned knee injuries, did any of you catch the game in his rookie year where he got hurt? I think nate is a unique talent in this league, but that night at the garden, it seemed to me from the 300's (true not the greatest vantange point but all I could find that night) that nate pushed his defender straight into Channing's knee cap. that was a ugly injury. i'm not saying nate deliberately did that, but nate was absolutely out of control during that play. That was it for channing, and he was having a rookie of the year type season until that point, he and villenuava were the best two rookie big men that year. we all know channing was pretty much a different player last year. my guess is portland will bring him in off the bench and hope he can still shoot.
found this on youtube. highlights from channing's rookie year. note that when he gets injured in the toronto game, they changed the music to "that's what friends are for," guess the producer of the video felt the same way I did about it:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=voGZv5ZEVs0
John Q and others. It seems you are more obseessed with scoring off the bench then in the starting line up. This is wrong. You're also completely forgot that we have Nate as an instant scorer off the bench behind Crawford. Another point you fail to consider is that second unit is defense and fast break oriented and thus their scoring will come in transition and off tip ins with Balkman and Lee contributing that way.
And what is it with the Jeffries love fest? After Alan posted Jefs photo every body fell in love with him to the point of having him start. Snap out of it! Did you watch Knicks faves last night? If you did then you saw Jef effing up big time. He should be traded together with another JJ as far as I'm concerned. That would make the most sense for the Knicks. Let the taleneted youth develop instead.
I've been down with Jared Jeffries before I knew this blog even existed.
He proved his worth to me during the brawl, that is when you know what kind of players you have, when people step up and don't take crap from larry brown frat boys like george karl, Carmelo, or JR Smith.
funny how you talk smack about jeffries' ineffectiveness in a game that NY won. you'd make a stronger case if you said he didn't suit up to play but the way I see it he was part of one of the best games of the season during a time when NOBODY was available play (no Q, no Jamal, no Lee).
Isiah had jeffries as a starter last year, and that is why everyone is calling him a starter this year. period.
I hink I just came up with a new verb: "Jeffing up"
Starfan. that game was over in regulation until Jef jeffed it up into a 3 ot affair.
And last year we got Jeffries before we knew about Balkman and now we have Chandler as well. This is a completely different set of circumstance from last year. This is not a valid point.
To be honest I don't really care what you all say. Isiah is the deciding factor here and I know that Jef is either gone or will sit until somebody gets hurt. He aint starting and he aint backing up shyt. His ass is sitting this season, period.
My bad on the achilles reference to BK. ACL. What was that, 1984? I was 14, no kids, no job. I can't remember that far back.
Yeah, I remember that the injury was career-ending in those days, but BK was determined to make it back. What did it take, 3 years? I can't remember, but he made it back.
Fixers (new and old),
Let me share a couple of thoughts. They came to mind as a reaction to this "veiled" caller AH referenced in his post on AH and some comments that I often read here about the JJs. I'm not saying that noone on the NYK is above reproach or criticism. We're just bloggin'. But come on folks. Besides the former HOF coach, who here is for this build up by tearing down SHAME GAME?
The only justification for looking down at somebody is to pick them up.--(JJ as in Jesse Jackson)
Love thy neighbor, even if he plays the trombone.-- (Jewish Proverb)
Mental goodwill is reciprocal. The good thoughts you send out to others will return back to you multiplied.--
Grenville Kleiser
Cooleyhigh knew what's good.
KFL
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