From Marbury to Madison Square...
Can I get an encore/do you want more?
Cookin raw with the Brooklyn boy
So for one last time I need y'all to roar
I feel you Jay...but let me change up the beat.
Tap-tap-ta-dap-dap-tap/tap-tap-ta-dap-dap-tap...
Who can you say has got more skills?
Who's more jinxed than the Buffalo Bills?
Starburys game once loaded like a clip
Quick on the draw and murder with the rip
But KG jealousy, Minnesota misery
Got himself the max, but minimum's the history
Prodigal son was a hometown hero
Playoff record is a zip-fo-career-o
Points lotta fingers but don't check the mirro
Sad to be leavin but won't shed no tear-o...
LOL. Enough of that. A little freestyling on a Saturday morning. I know I'm garbage so if you can do better have at it, hoss. That's what the comments area is for.
The Marbury Debate seems to be growing here in Fixer Nation. On the live chat there were a few of you who argued in favor of keeping Stephon Marbury and I can accept those arguements.
I don't agree, but I accept.
In an idealistic world, Marbury arrives at training camp in the best shape of his life, Starbury tat and all. He and his Amazon.com specials squeak circles around a hic-burping Chis Duhon in the early morning practices and Mike D'Antoni sees his style, as Marbury put it "the system my game was built for."
It's the Summer Steph we all fall in love with, myself included. He's smiling, engaging and brimming with optimism. You fall for it every time because you want to. Sure maybe he's a little bit crazy but it's funnier at 0-0.
Ask his teammates -- some of whom had put him on iggy a long time ago but are still annoyed by his overbearing ubiquity -- and they'll tell you, with Marbury it never was about talent. It never was about the physical. It's the mental. His inability to be a leader -- which is OK, really, some people just aren't natural leaders. The problem is, those people usually recognize that. Marbury doesn't.
So maybe he will, finally. Maybe Donnie Walsh sits down with him, makes it Cristal clear: this ain't your team anymore, son. He can't be named among the captains, not that captain is anything more these days than someone who shakes hands with the referees before games. But the locker room needs to know, that crazy dude who wears No. 3 no longer has the key to the Garden. He can't speak with authority or any kind of command. If he remains -- and that's a big if -- he'll be one of 15. Only Starberman's persistence to get him to say something controversial and strong performances on the court will keep him relevant.
But why bother? You already know you don't have a first-round pick in 2010 (Utah will take it). The 2009 pick is protected as long as the Knicks don't finish in the top eight, so what really is the plan here? How many more wins could a healthy, mentally-balanced Marbury get you with this roster? Is it really worth it? Whether he stays or is bought out, the number stays on the roster for the season. What you're paying for is the hope he won't be a negative force -- publicly disagreeing with yet another coach, sulking on the bench, having his generally inane comments turned into headlines by his personal biographer -- as opposed to the guarantee he won't be.
I doubt the Knicks suddenly turn into a playoff team just because Marbury is gone and wholly agree that, talent-wise, they are better with him in the lineup than Chris Duhon. But there is more to building a team -- and rebuilding a franchise -- than just organizing talent. There is reforming the perception of your team and the standard by which you do business. It's similar to the San Francisco Giants and Barry Bonds. Are they better without him? Absolutely not. But they are better off moving forward without him.
(Not comparing Marbury to Bonds on any level -- from talent to criminality -- but comparing the situations of two teams that needed to get away from media lightning rods and allow their work environments to clear out and become stable again).
This debate may already be moot because the damage may have already been done. James Dolan has never hesitated to spend money to make headaches go away. Marbury doesn't get into Theo Fleury trouble and quite often you would think Dolan would always side with the guy who is simply a media lightning rod. But any of Dolan's famous loyalty had to be spent during and after the Anucha Browne Sanders trial. Marbury was an unwitting co-star in the testimony against the Garden and his careless behavior before, during and afterward was enough to have Dolan and Isiah Thomas contemplating a buyout last fall.
I asked someone with intimate knowledge of the new Knick heirarchy what they plan to do with the Marbury situation and was told, "We'll do the right thing."
There was no elaboration.
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Comments (23)
Nice freestyle, Alan. But where's the, "Hey Steph, tell me how my a-- tastes?" haha
I think Marbury's done, if only because this team has more guards than Buckingham Palace. Another comparison to this situation is Jeremy Shockey's with the Giants. They traded him, despite his Pro Bowl talent, because of his attitude and they're hoping the rest of the team will gel better without him.
The same can be said for Stephon. He's a really good player in this league, and I think he could work in D'Antoni's system. But the Knicks and Starbury have come to a crossroads.
Alan,
Is it possible and legal through the CBA if Marbury asked for a buy out ( considering he will have "Bench Sores") ...can the Knicks legally come to terms and buy him out if Marbury accepts half his 22 Million? I can't see Marbury cheering on the Knicks as he will lead the team in DNP CD.
LMAO!!! Alan, let me find out you have bars!!?
classic..... I think Steph is done too which is extremely sad...he's officially shown us all what happens to a Dream Deferred (big up to Langston Hughes)
looking at the roster it looks questionable but I think Donnie is making one hell of a meal with a bunch of weird ingredients kind of like Iron Chef and as we all have learned over the past few is the key to a solid GM is patience, communications, planning and foresight...
He can ship Zach off any time before 2010 worst come to worst even though we all want it now... Steph's expiring, Rose's expiring, Jerome James aka Weekend at Bernies decrepit waste of a 7' body, Q Rich, Jefferies etc. will be gone in time as other teams find different needs and have their own agenda's
everyone knows what "the right thing" is, and everyone knows what it means.
it will be a good day when it finally happens.
Alan - I agree that a parting of the ways with Marbury is probably the best way for the Knicks to move forward, even though in a contract year at his age he'll have a strong incentive to play at his best. It's amazing how frequent that contract year boost is in the league.
I'm not completely sold on that even a focused and non-disruptive Marbury is perfect for D'Antoni's system. This is speculative since we don't know exactly what the Knicks will be running until the season starts, but it's pretty safe to predict a couple of things: a quick hitting offense with an emphasis on running and quick ball movement, and a thick playbook with a ton of variations on each play. Marbury has always been more of a penetrator - good finisher, good drive and kick guy - than a push guard, and while he might adjust to a new role, not playing to his strengths diminishes his effectiveness. It gets mentioned a lot that Marbury's previous teams improved dramatically after he was shipped out, but it is also relevant that the Nets and the Suns implemented running games with their new point guards. Kidd and Nash games are more suited to pushing the ball, seeing the whole court and quickly hitting the open man. There is no reason to believe Marbury is any more desirable on a Knicks team that runs than he was at these earlier stops. I also remember reading something about him not being so good with big playbooks, but I'm not certain - can anyone confirm or deny this?
I've also read people suggesting moving Marbury to the 2, to look for his own shot. The problem is, playing off the ball is a significant adjustment for a guy who's had the rock in his hands since grade school. Moving without the ball, coming off screens - he may be able to do it, but again, it limits his ability to best utilize his skill set. And he would get annihilated defensively.
i have some questions:
can the knicks keep him on the payroll but not suit him up for the whole season (in order that he doesn't produce for another team on the knicks dime)?
can the knicks trade him but absorb part of the contract (this is frequently done in baseball), and if so, what would the salary cap implications be?
in any case, without doubt, it's time for steph to get in the truck and hit the road. i for one, will harangue him mercilessly should he ever step on the garden floor again. i am invariably supportive of players and do not engage in behavior counter-productive to their succeeding, but this jerk has thrown everybody he has come across under the bus (what is it about him that evokes transportation metaphors?) .
pg duhon 10 dimes/10 pts
sg jamal 26 pts/5 dimes
pf D-lee 12 boards/12 pts
sf the chill 16 pts/5 boards/4 dimes/2 blks
c jeffries 10 boards/5 pts/2 blks
Alan
Is it possible and legal through the CBA that I can buy me a brain
useing taxpayers money as usual
Isiaih
to me sperm donor pleae save me & me ancesters from these Trolls
me momma
lets git back in da truk and hide
were gettin killed here
to steff - "kick rocks!!"...
we have no need for ur services here any longer...i'm surprised u are not 'persona non grata' now that a new regime is here by now.
al-boogie wsup w/ all tha rodents & hyenas on tha blog man....?
u need that rat poison.
"I'm a loser baby...so why don't you kill me"
thats a verse from "Loser" by Beck
and i think that is a fitting analogy for this steph situation
steph has had 5 years to prove that he is a winner
but time and time again he has proven that he is
a loser...
an ego maniac...
a me first player
hell Kobe is like that too but that guys game
is all world.
if steph had game like kobe
i would say lets keep him
but Steph should have never been
a max contract
how come every team he has left has gotten better?
maybe the knicks can get some post marbury bunp...LOL
anyone that would give an interview on TV
high or drunk and call his own wife "my ho"
is not the kind of leader the knicks need.
and whats up with that new tattoo on his head?
BIZARRE
I understand we had a rough year last season, but let's take a close look at what's really under discussion here.
We're talking about paying a former All-star the lion's share of a $22 million annual salary to go play somewhere else, most likely for an Eastern Conference rival (Heat or Celts, maybe?). We're talking about doing that in said former All-star's contract year, meaning: a) we're losing him at the end of the season anyway; b) he's likely to play his best in years; and c) we'd be tossing in the bin an enormous expiring contract, when we all know that (with the exception of 1st rnd draft picks) expiring contracts are the most valuable asset in today's NBA marketplace.
The only circumstances under which we should consider such a deal are if the former All-star in question is 1) completely spent from a player/athlete standpoint, and/or 2) such an unremitting a$$h()le that keeping him around could sink the franchise for the season and beyond. I don't want to hear this wishy-washy, "he's outstayed his welcome here" bull. It's such a colossal lose-lose proposition for the Knicks that those two factors are the only ones that could justify it. So let's look at examine those two issues independently for a moment:
1) Can he still play?
I don't think there's any question that Marbury, even taking last year's performance into consideration, is still the best PG the Knicks have got, so that really should trump any "which system is best for him" question. The fact of the matter is, from a pure position player standpoint, he is better suited to play the 1 than anyone under contract right now, half-court, motion, flex, ssol, whatever. He'll probably never be a 20 and 8 man again, but 15 and 5 seems like the bottom for him, right? So who else is putting up 15 and 5 at the one? Chris Duhon? Uh-uh.
2) Is he a cancer?
Is there really any evidence for this premise? No doubt about it, the dude has no sense of PR, but who's to say he can sink a team just be the very negativity of his own existence? I know Isola has a single, unnamed source who says no one on the team can stand him - the same single, unnamed source who came up with the bogus "team vote" story, no doubt. And it's clear that no one in the media, with very few exceptions (looking at you MB), can stand him. Then again, the media couldn't really stand Ewing either (cf, "GOOD RIDDANCE), so they chased one of the three or four truly great, noble, champion Knicks out of town because he didn't give good press.
But most of his coaches (Saunders, Byron Scott, D'Antoni, Wilkens) have nothing but positive things to say about him. Similarly many (though not all, no doubt) of his teammates - Penny, Wally, KG, Stoudemire, Marion, Lee, Crawford, etc.
Is he a selfish, all-about-meh kind of person? Take a look at some of the "good character" things he's done in his career:
1) Starbury shoes
2) donation to Katrina victims
3) buys suits for rookie teammates
4) has sent thousands of kids to basketball camp and fantasy weekends through his foundation
5) a Coney Island santa claus.
Year after year, he does well beyond what is expected and required of NBA players in terms of philanthropy.
Finally, let's take a quick look at some of the things Marbury went through last season:
1) his father dies at MSG during a game
2) his basketball mentor/surrogate father dies
3) his aunt dies
4) his grandmother dies (? - can't remember. think so, but not sure)
5) he has a season-ending injury that he tries to play through
6) his former best friend/mentor/neighbor/coach who always had his back wacks him Tony Soprano-style on the plane on the way to California because he doesn't like Marbury's under-oath testimony at his sexual harassment hearing.
Rough year, right? And did the fans and the media cut him any slack for playing through pain, through grief, for a losing team and a turncoat coach? For about one quarter.
I'm not saying the guy's a saint. I'm not even saying he's a terrific basketball player. I'm saying he's not that bad, and he's had a really bum rap throughout his career.
So maybe we keep him and see what he can do for us in the last year of contract, instead of cutting him loose and taking a $20 million dollar hit so we can sign another NBDL player and keep JJ Snacks in Joseph Aboud suits all season.
OK, that's all I can come up with right now. Next time I'll post about why I love Isiah so much.
Sorry - last post was mine.
I don't believe in the anonymous post - just forgot to type it back in there after the security code failed.
I dont believe Marbury sucks so Im not gonna say it just because its cool to do so now among certain people.
However I will say that he has too much baggage between himself and team/organization to be brought back. Hes essentially a built in excuse for the team that desperately needs leadership and direction.
This reminds me of the T.O and Moss situations to a certain degree.Contracts aside you know these guys are uber-talented but their behavior had begun to overshadow the team and the game to the degree that all everyone wants to know is what will they do next ?These things tend to feed themselves and Marburys behavior has overshadowed his basketball career now.Its all about what will he do or say off the court and I doubt he can move past that here in NY.
I think he can regroup someplace else and I would like that spotlight to be placed on Jefferies,Curry,Q all guys we play a lot of money to ..so no more of that hiding behind Marbury.
"Then again, the media couldn't really stand Ewing either (cf, "GOOD RIDDANCE), so they chased one of the three or four truly great, noble, champion Knicks out of town because he didn't give good press."
Chuck,
How many NBA titles did Pat Ewing's Knicks win?
"Finally, let's take a quick look at some of the things Marbury went through last season:
1) his father dies at MSG during a game
2) his basketball mentor/surrogate father dies
3) his aunt dies
4) his grandmother dies (? - can't remember. think so, but not sure)
5) he has a season-ending injury that he tries to play through
6) his former best friend/mentor/neighbor/coach who always had his back wacks him Tony Soprano-style on the plane on the way to California because he doesn't like Marbury's under-oath testimony at his sexual harassment hearing.
YOU want a little cheese to go with all that whine?
Cry me a river. For Marbury, the world's smallest violin plays Italian melodies.
Yeah...what is up with all you
starbury apologist.
geez...you make it sound like starbury is
MJ or something
tell me what has Starbury done
that has benefited the knicks?
and i'm not talking about creating
15 dollar sneakers
i am talking about what has he done
for the NY knicks?
since Starbury has been here
the knicks have been in the lottery every year
except one (the year the nets swept us in the 1st round)
Paying anyone 21 Million Dollars NOT to play is hard for me to stomach!
We all have worked with people we could not stand and we tolerate them for a lot less than the Knick millionaire players are getting paid to put up with PoisonBury -- so that is NOT a valid excuse!
Marbury is a nut job and says and does stupid things in the press. I agree but, that's NOT a valid reason to reward him with 21M!
James Dollan is a nut job too and the Knick's frequent poor PR is not all due to Don't-Think-Before-You-SpeakBury!
Yes, Not-up-to-ParBury is the best PG the Knicks have. He should be put on a short leash and be played to see if he can bring up his game in his contract year. If so, he helps the Knicks and brings up his trade value.
In a trade after raising his value to another team desperate to get better, ByByBury, may finally help the Knicks by bringing in valuable players and/or draft picks back -- once again making another team better, in this case the Knicks, by leaving it!
The Knicks are NOT going to get much better by JUST cutting payroll and JUST dumping good players through buyouts. You need to get something back where possible.
If you get under the cap by 2010, what free agent star will join your team if it is not competitive?
Sorry the last post was mine, but forgot to enter my name:
He's gotta go.
Marbury's expiring contract only has trade value if the Knicks want to bring in another high salaried player from a team looking to dump payroll. This is counterproductive if the goal is to reduce payroll over the next two years. If the plan is to attract a marquis free agent it is necessary to have a the makings of a decent team, but it is pointless if that doesn't leave enough cap room to sign him. The only way to be competitive enough to be attractive and be able to make an offer is to have a core of promising young players (cheap and with upside) and other reasonable contracts. In this case, Marbury is most valuable for the amount his expiring contract will save, whether it expires or is bought out.
If Walsh isn't really planning on slashing payroll, then Marbury's expiring could be part of a major deal.
Sorry, that was me above - lot of that going on here today...
Alan
Is it possible and legal through the CBA that I can buy me a brain
useing taxpayers money as usual and as always
Isiaih
to me sperm donor please save me & me ancesters from these Trolls
me momma mia
lets git back in da truk and hide
were gettin defecated on in here
peace
yo parole officer is huntin u down
Ex-Sonics Owner Says Stern Told Him To Drop Suit
Former Sonics owner Harold Schultz has declared in a declaration filed Thursday in U.S. District Court in Seattle that NBA commissioner David Stern warned him that it would be "very expensive" to pursue a lawsuit seeking to return the team to Seattle from Oklahoma City, the Associated Press is reporting.
I thought JOHN GOTTI was dead? Time for Stern to go!
I swear, Alan is the only good Knicks journalist out there. Bermanbury is pure trash, I've never even looking at the Post ever again.
speaking of buy-outs, why would we reward knuckleheads like marbury and jerome james with the year off with pay? I understand that we need the roster spot, but how about buying out Malik Rose. He has been very professional coming from a championship team to Circus Isaih and trying to hold the team together without complaint. He deserves a chance to play for another team, IF he chooses to play another year, and possibly be a vet on a young team that will use him 8-10 min. a game. Give Marbury a chance with the new coach, but on a short leash. At the first sign of disruption put him on IR rather than pay him max money to play for someone else.