The Knicks Fix

Help me; how does Kyle Lowry benefit us? He's small, weak on shooting, and adds nothing we lack. Is this better than a 2nd round draft pick? You did say "start."

i would try to get warrick in that deal also
i like kyle but he is injury prone

2bad miller is gone already cuz he would be perfect for the knicks

grizz does have a few players the knicks can use if that deal goes done

lets go jets

stay tuned for more Knowledge

as much as i want to dump bozo, i might hold off on that deal. milicic is somewhat tantalizing but a bum will always be a bum & it is what it is. something better will come along & every week there's another team who comes biting. i'd pass.....unless we can somehow lose jerome too in it. then i'd be all for it.

If the Knicks could get Darko and Lowry for Randolph, they should jump at the chance. Lowry would be a very good back up point, a real tough defender and an under-rated passer. He has a small contract. Darko would be a decent backup big man, and his contract only has two years left.

Not a bad deal for the Grizzlies either as Randolph would immediately become their leading scorer and rebounder and all it would cost them is $6m a year for the first two years (difference between the Darko/Lowry contracts) and in the last year, he could be trade bait for the expiring.

Can you say "Fire Sale?" ZeeBo, is more than a 20-10 player, who on a good team would be a star or even an all-star. Why dump him for damaged goods, or players who represent little or no value?

Sure trade him for pieces that make the Knicks considerably better or wait until his value rises.

Yes 2010 may find the Knicks under the cap -- but forget about LeBron or other stars if the Kicks are not competitive before they are added. Who wants to join a looser?

Please trade Zach, he doesnt suck but he doesnt fit D'antoni's style at all. He will be usefull for maybe 20mins or less. I would trade him for that second round pick

Don't need Darko

Would rather let Zach get some play then dump him for Garbage (sorry Darko , I mean someone who is hurt and cant play)

Don't give Zach up for Nuttin' Trade him yes, but for some value.

Zach is at least productive and comes to play, you cant buy that in this league, A la worst Knick ever Jerome "I fell an I cant get up " James. Jerome James should have his own TV show...oh they have that, its called The Biggest Loser. (sorry Jerome, U worked hard to earn that title)

If Zach puts up numbers his trade value increases!

If not we can trade him for "nothing" anytime we want, no rush.

Anyone remember

Ewing -Oakley - X-man

That was a front line.

Miss those guys.

the problem with the "let Zach put up big numbers this year, and then trade him" arguement is that there's a good chance that he'll put up worse numbers than he did last year, now that he's in D'Antoni's system. if he can't keep the ball moving (which I don't think he can), then he'll ride the bench. and those 20/10 averages will drop.

Damn...memphis won't trade OJ For Zach...LOL

i think that trading zach for Darko and Lowry
would be a good deal for the knicks

Darko (when healthy) does attempt to block shots
and can be a presence in the middle

i would like to get Warrick in the deal if we could
i always thought he was under used in memphis

hey memphis...how about Marbury and Zach
for OJ,Darko,and Warrick?...LOL

hell they traded Gasol for a bag of peanuts
maybe we can get lucky

For those of you who think the Knicks can get more for Zach, remember that a year ago, the best the Blazers could do was a lousy contract in Steve Francis and a bench player in Channing Frye.

And Zach was coming off a big year.

Face it, he has little value in the league and Isiah is no longer available to acquire bad players with bad contracts.

i know that it isn't the most credible source, but an online israeli newspaper stated that the knicks tried to shop crawford, gallinari, and z-bo to denver for iverson, any truth to that? sounds a little crazy to me. http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3587624,00.html

I would take Darko in a second for Randolph, although I think Zach is a better player. Zach just is not the player for this system and making him into it to boost his value might be detrimental to the team. If Darko is healthy he can run the floor and block shots which is what we need from our bigs in an up tempo system. They can keep Kyle.

I would take Darko in a second for Randolph, although I think Zach is a better player. Zach just is not the player for this system and making him into it to boost his value might be detrimental to the team. If Darko is healthy he can run the floor and block shots which is what we need from our bigs in an up tempo system. They can keep Kyle.

You're right David. But that was a fire sale. They just wanted him out. And Zeke was still spending Dolan's money like a drunken sailor, so they didn't care and the knicks didn't care, so we got fleeced. Walsh is determined to do everything in his power to not be fleeced, and D'Antoni is on board to coach this guy. Randolph is our best player, and us losing is not his fault. We're getting rid of him because of the cap and we have time on our side. If he puts up the same numbers this year, we're probably in the same position we are now, next year. So why not give it a whirl, see if Walsh can back up a bluff. And perhaps Memphis hasn't run out of dumbass just yet.

Haven't seen Darko in years. The knock on him was he was not a back to the basket player. I'm assuming since he's European, he can shoot a J and pass the ball when facing the basket. If Randolph goes for him, he's next to Curry, so, if he blocks shots (need that), rebounds (need that), passes and shoots the jumper (D'Antoni needs that) he actually might fit. BUT - we need way more than a straight up deal, way more. Let em sweat and dream of Randolph and Marc Gasol (actually a front court combo I would love) and make em give up a pick and a player. And a bag of peanuts. Gotta get those peanuts.

Memphis is spraying the walls:

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9856

What's next from them? Who's making this stuff up?

It's amazing that Bulljive hasn't enlightened us with his bulljive on this one yet...can't wait.

LLLLLLLOOOOOOOVVVVVVEEEEEEE IIIIIIIITTTTTTT

Zach for Lowry and Darko...done!

Clears 2010 space and it makes us younger...Would be a dream come true..PPPLLLEEEAAASSSEEE MAKE IT HAPPEN!!!

Keeping 2010 alive
with some goodbye zach bulljive

Also..

If Donnie wants to toe the line here and Lowery and Darko arent enough then maybe we throw in the Denver second rounder/Jarrod Jeffries for Hakim Warrick..

A man can dream

Now that deal would keep 2010 alive
with some cap saving, trophy making bulljive

You wit me?

@Bulljive

Hell Yeah...i'm with ya.

lets get it crackin

All,

Zach wasn't the problem last year. People forget that we played all season without a point guard. Its the points guards job to get everyone involved. Last year we didn't even run an offense.

Before we say what Zach can't do lets give him a chance. In 03-04 he put up 20 and 10 for a Portland team that made the playoffs and played an up tempo style.

Give the guy a break!!!

I'm starting to understand why players no longer like to play in NY.

You guys are crazy.

Zach will shoot less if you have someone to distribute the ball.

Weren't they talking on draft day of a possible trade of Memphis sending the Knicks the 5th pick for Zach and Lee.

I'd hate to see Lee go but any package that would bring Mayo to the Garden would be great.

Darko can actually block shots one of the most glaring Knick needs, at least 2blks a game... He and Lowry both play D, you gotta make that move if its possible...

Bye Zach, it was real....

I mean if you can shed Zachs contract and add athletic defensive players that can run the floor, why not...

Like I said in Alan's last post, Darko averaged 10.9 pts, 9.2 rebs, and 2.5 blocks per 36 mins in Memphis last season. You Fixers have been screaming about an inside presence, about dumping Randolph or Curry, and about Donnie not making moves to better our cap situation. This move would address those concerns and be a much better move than the Clippers' offer that most of you criticized Walsh for so heavily.

Lowry would be a great addition if we can pull him away. Perimeter defense, full court pressure and athleticism make a huge difference for a bad defensive team. Last season he averaged 13.6 pts, 5.1 assts, 4.3 rebs, and 1.6 steals per 36 mins. To put that into perspective, Rondo put up 12.7 pts, 6.1 assts, 5 rebs, and 2 steals per 36 mins. Point guards like these are valuable, and like Rondo's did, his jumper can come along. I'm not saying he'd start over Duhon, but he'd probably be a solid successor if he can pick up the offense.

Just imagine what those blocks and steals can do for D'Antoni's fast break. I understand that Darko's never going to be what he was projected to be but a lot of players suffer the same fate. People question his attitude and motor, but how can we not question Zach's. Because we haven't heard any other rumor with any substance to it, I say pull the trigger.

Now one question I do have is about how waivers work. Because of the recent Darius Miles signing, I understand that his contract will work against Portland's cap if he plays 10 or more games? If we do get Darko and Lowry for Zach, we'd be over the player cap, and like you said good-bye Jerome James. I can't imagine anyone picking him up or playing him 10 games. Would that take him off our cap for good at the end of next season?

(In response to previous thread)

Alan,

While I am with you 100% on the importance of Curry, who I predict will sit early because of lack of conditioning, your emphasis on "intelligence" suggests that brain power is more important for D'Antoni's "system" than others. I don't think that is true.

D’Antoni has quite a task on his hands regardless of the intellect or so-called basketball IQ of his players. What he wants them to learn offensively takes practice and repetition, not anymore bball IQ than any other style. Practice and repetition (and darn good conditioning which is probably why the Knicks brought in Atkinson as a second conditioning coach). Decision-making on the run must be intuitive, not intellectualized. It must be second nature which comes with repetition and will. The advantage that the Knicks have in this regard is that at least many of them have played together for a good part of the last two years, so they know a lot about playing together. But that is a small advantage in a “system/style/philosophy” which is going to require them to learn more about themselves.

D’Antoni’s practices are notoriously short (2 hours) because he is focused on a few very specific things: conditioning, spacing, passing and shooting. Many of us focus our comments on ball movement, but we must remember that ball movement happens through running, spacing, positioning and passing.

The beauty of what he does is its simplicity. As you know, there is the fast break and there is the secondary break. The secondary break is what happens when the team does not get a lay-up immediately. D'Antoni's basic plays are simple. For example, in one offensive set, the point guard will make an entry pass to a post player and cut off the ball before going to screen a player in the corner. The player in the corner uses the pick to cut to the basket and the screener (point guard) turns to receive the pass for a shot.

In another, the point guard passes and screens away. Once the wing pops to the top, they run a screen and roll and the other wing slides to the top for a jumper.

But this is the kicker, almost every offensive drill is about team shooting and everybody, I mean everybody, shoots. In one drill (as Suns coach) at the end of every offensive set, the players are tossed a/the ball from where ever they are and are told to shoot. The idea is that everybody should be in a position to shoot at the end of the play or know where they can be available for a shot at the end of the play.

Another drill, that sounds delicious is the full-court weave which requires players to run and score 100 points in two minutes with everybody shooting.
I would love to see that drill. I would love to see how Jerome James and Eddie Curry will survive that drill.

The key for D’Antoni will be the point guard. And, you won’t like hearing it (I bet neither does Walsh), but the best point guard you have right now for D’Antoni’s style is Nate Robinson. Not a true point? Flawed? O.K. But D’Antoni is interested in ball movement, not just through the pass and cuts and kick backs, but off the dribble. Nate is the guard we know has been studying Nash even before the arrival of D’Antoni. Nate spent much of last summer watching Nash films and it showed in the summer league. (Why did Zeke misuse his summer league MVP?) But Nate’s entry passes into the post suck.

On the other hand, Crawford will finally be forced to understand spacing on the break. If he does not, he will not play. He did not exhibit that understanding last year. His passing off the break is atrocious. I will guess that he will be Weber’s pet project.

Duhon is an unknown (unless you believe his stats which say he was a mistake for this job), but he better be shooting and running his tail off this summer. This is a great chance for Mardy Collins to shine. If he has the will, this staff will make him an excellent player. He can handle the ball, pass off the dribble, maintain his dribble, and score inside and get fouled. I like his skill set. I am uncertain about his mindset and how damaged he is from the past two years.

For now, Nate is your man.

******************
Who is the defensive guru? I can’t figure it out yet. Expect Alan to ask who is primarily responsible for developing the defensive game plans against each team. I think it might be Weber. If it is D'Antoni, watch out. It musn't be Herb Williams or Dan D’Antoni. Greg Brittenham is a strength and conditioning guru and Kenny Atkinson comes to the Knicks after spending last season with the Houston Rockets where he was Director of Player Development. He was responsible for improving player performance through on-court, one-on-one skill development and the use of video analysis.

So what does this tell you? Perhaps Walsh and D’Antoni believe their players’ biggest problems involve conditioning and skill development. I take that as a bad and good sign. At least they recognize the problem (good sign). But that is a big problem for this offense (bad sign) .

@knicksmyteam
The problem isnt Zach-it is his monster contract..He is about the only thing keeping us from picking up two major players in 2010. I understand that we want to field a decent team at the moment and Zach would help, but does it matter if you field a decent team if you have no future?? We have to clear his cap room for 2010 and be players that summer..

Also the lame comment that people keep saying about us having to be good going into that season or people wont come here is bulljive..This is New York and we would have some young talented players and big Mike as our coach...That would bring in two good players for sure in 2010 aslong as we have the caproom.

Keeping Lebron and Bosh alive
With some Zach shedding money letting bulljive

How many times has D'Antoni as the SUNS coach, played against Zach? 16-20 times? I would think he has his personal view of what Zach would bring to his system, However....I don't believe DARKO was or ever will be a part of the view! I'm not on
board with the Zach bashing that seems popular here at the Fix.
If we can't get more than a one legged Darko and back up scrub for Zach, maybe we should cut Zach and give major minutes to Jerome James. Yeah right!

Wait a minute! You all have seen the NBA playoff commericals
where they put half of each players face together and make it whole! Maybe you guys are on to something here.......say we do
trade our best 15 foot shooter for Darko? We could ask the NBA
to borrow that technology and infuse together the healthy half of James and the healthy half of Darko together! It would be ugly,
but at least we'd have only ONE handicapped low IQ 7 footer on the bench!

He should be banned for the stupidity of both of those comments.

@old knick fan

Who wants to join a loser?

It worked out alright for KG and Ray Allen!

@Poster at 08:18

Your Handle speaks volumes!

Good to hear you, Lives. Nice intelligence on the Suns drills.

Hoopsworld's report:

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9861

"Memphis and Randolph: At first you hear the Memphis Grizzlies and rumors that they have interest in Zach Randolph, and it's easy to dismiss. Come on there is no way you saddle a young team and a young coach with the "Black Hole" of basketball - the ball goes in, and it never comes out. Then you listen to the logic from sources in Memphis and you wonder are the Grizz really willing to make the leap? The logic behind the Zach Randolph to Memphis rumors is simply trading bad for bad. If the Grizzlies can get New York to take on some of Memphis' unwanted contracts, then it's worth looking at. The rumor as it stands is Memphis would assume the remaining three years and $43.9 million on Zach's deal, with a 2008-2009 salary of just under $14.7 million. If the Grizz could send out the final two years and $14.5 million owed to Darko Milicic and the final two years and $18.7 owed to Antoine Walker, it seems like that's what Memphis is looking at. Marko Jaric's boat anchor of a deal could easily be subbed in for Walker, because you can argue that Walker's contract, which is the highest on the team is the best deal, as the final year is a non-guaranteed year. Why Zach? Let's face it, he can still play and play at a very high level. If you talk with people in Portland, almost everyone says Zach is a follower, he is going to go with the crowd, and the young guys in Memphis might be just the right catalyst to get the most out of Zach, hence the discussion. The Grizzlies are not going to do New York any favors, but Zach's deal is a three-year deal, putting the Knicks on the hook for more than $17 million into 2011, which is not where they want to be. Memphis on the other hand even with Zach in town, still look to have plenty of cap space regardless as Zach would be the only really big deal the team holds, and then you factor in the trade value of an ending $17 million deal, and Memphis could be in a good place – if Zach doesn't poison the team. Everyone who has played with Zach loves him, so as a team mate it's an easy move, but from a basketball perspective there is some risk, and that's why there has not been a deal, but it's not farfetched to believe the Grizzlies are pondering it, sources close to the club were adamant not to dismiss the notion, as they say it's being discussed."

We need a young piece to go with this - I suspect that is the discussion as Jaric or Walker have never been a part of Memphis' plans and have been on the "to be moved" list since they got there.

Etc......

http://www.thememphisedge.com/2008/08/25/griz-moves-on-the-horizon/

The Knicks should absolutely make that Memphis deal, provided they can Lowry tossed into the deal, or a future first round pick.

Its immediately makes them players in 2010, opens up the lane for Curry, and brings in a young player still with potential in Darko.

Keep your fingers crossed that Memphis is serious about this deal, if they are, I'm quite sure that Donnie will agree.

And for those of you who believe that Zach is worth more/will be worth more, remember what the Knicks gave up for him. Nothing.
And the Knicks took on a lot of added salary.

@Lives - Good perspective as usual, but I stand my my point that in order for this "system" to work at a high (read: championship) level you need thinkers on the court. I'm not saying all 5 have to be Basketball Einsteins, but the ones who pass and control the ball are the ones who need to be your smartest. We all know Amare isn't a Rocket Scientist. He was also the weakest link of that team's defense.
Speaking of which . . . I think Herb will be the "defensive" coach. You are dead-on about Atkinson. He is a workaholic and will be charged with getting the young players and guys who don't play much the proper amount of side work on the court. Weber is the offensive coach. He knows that system as well as anyone and D'Antoni trusts him. Dan D'Antoni is more of a conscience for Mike, a sounding board. It's a small staff. I'd say Herb will be the one who handles the D. Just a guess right now but for sure it'll be asked on Sept. 29-30.

OK - hear is where I expand the Zach deal and add in D-Lee.

Memphis had a strong interest in D-Lee at the time of the draft. True - we heard that Lee's reps may have informed Memphis he wasn't interested but not 100% sure that was fact.

How about we send Memphis Zach and D-Lee for Darko, Conley and Antoine Walker's deal. According to the article I read Toine's deal is actually attractive because it's only 2-years and the 2nd year is a team option.

If Memphis isn't willing to go Conley.

Then how about Zach and D-Lee for Darko, Lowry and Warrick.

Me likey that deal....anybody else?

Zach vs Playoff teams Pre- Knicks, This guy needs a chance
to show why he's not Darko bait! Don't think so? Lets look at Darko's Stats vs Playoff teams if you have a strong stomach..

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/portland-trail-blazers/players/zach-randolph/profile/07/24/350/9

Guys...Don't take on A. Walker for any reason. Entertaining the idea is simply ridiculous. You'd basically be trading Randolph for a clone of himself six years from now.

Chris... Really? You want to trade D-Lee and Randolph for Darko, Walker and Conley? Really?? Conley's good. I'll give you that. But no way are you taking back A. Walker if you're throwing in David Lee.

By the way, "throw DLee in" is a term that should be completely banned from this message board. It makes us all look dumb. I've had enough of it.

Is everyone fogetting that Darko is coming off of a major injury and already was a below average center before that. Det basically gave the kid away to Orlando after drafting him 2nd overall. If we are going to trade Zach for salary cap space fine, ok that is part of the 2010 plan, but stop the spin about how much Darko is going to improve the team and Lowrey is this amazing PG. Call it like it is, a strict salary dump. I want a shotblocker too, but Darko is coming off knee surgery, really doesn't give you much else and is lost for most parts of the game (think Allan Houston x 10). I remember reading reports in Memphis about how disappointed they were after acquiring him after he had that 1/2 season breakout in Orlando and guess what the coach in Memphis runs a similar system. This blog is becoming like Fox News, Alan posts something and everyone runs with it without thinking for themselves. If you make that trade you are not improving the team, you are dumping salary and are preparing to be a very bad team next year and the year after.

Throwing D. Lee in is just asinine. You would be throwing in your best trade chip for Warrick (since when is he an all-star) and would have nobody to get a rebound. I know everyone is focused on this 2010 fantasy but can we at least try to be a .500 team up until then. Do we have to absolutely stink while we rebuild or can we try to put a decently competitive team on the floor that a free agent with half a brain would consider playing with. How do Lowrey, Darko and Warrick make us better when they absolutely stunk it up in Memphis.

In case you can't tell I'm still upset over the Mets collapse last night.

If this deal can be done, get it done! Mike Breen mentioned during the medal ceremony, that, Luis Scola, made a very insightful statement regarding Team USA. "They've learned to play FIBA Basketball." With D'Antoni running the show, and Alan as you mentioned so precisely with your blog, "Thinking small...etc.", There is no chance of seeing Randolph and Curry together on the floor. With that the case, how is Randolph's trade value going to increase? with diminished playing time? with a sucky attitude because he won't be playing? Curry is a better fit for D'Antoni's offense. Trade Randolph now for Milicic and #2 pick down the line.

What are we gonna do with D LEE then? Resign him..thats a good idea...lets resign them all to big contracts and then we can suck for 5 more years.

You can't trade Lee as part of that Memphis deal.
What is the matter with you guys?
You guys are so quick to try to blow this team up that you want to just give a 10 and 10 guy away.
I'm with Alan on this ....even though Livesmakes some excellent points.
Lives....why don't you post here more often?
Stop being shy my brother.

Yeah, let's trade away both of our highest % shooters in one shot!

GENIUS!

DaJoka- you make a good point. Why give up a 10 10 guy. Funny thing about knicks fans they are willing to give up a 20 10 guy with Zach. I still don't understand why.

Lets stop calling him a head case because since he's been with the knicks on or off the court he didn't have an issue. Atleast he came to play every game. Ask KG about Zach and he will tell you he's the toughest person to guard in the game. He can post, hit the jumper and he's lefty so that makes it even harder to guard him.

I will stand by another point I made this off season. All of you knicks fans that are calling for these one sided trades, will be the same fans complaining that the team is 9-33 at the allstart break.

One more thing is D'antoni can make Amere allstar image what he can do with Zach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not quite understanding the delusions about Zach's stock value so let's take a look at the most rumored deals involving him this past year. Obviously we remember what little we gave up to get him in a Knicks uniform in the first place so let's skip that. Here's what a Z-Bo 20 and 10 gets you:

Zach and Balkman to the Bucks for Villanueva ($2.715M/$3.448M), Bobby Simmons ($9.28M/$9.92M/$10.56M) and Dan Gadzuric ($5.751M/$6.25M/$6.749M/$7.248M). Those are two underwhelming bench players with horrendous contracts that go beyond 2010 and Villanueva who gives us lower offensive numbers and the same defensive problems. One sided for the Bucks but they declined.

Zach to the Nuggets for who knows at this point. The latest reports were Nene and Kleiza. Nene was set to make 9.6-11.3 mil until 2011 and had a player option for 2012. Let's not forget his testicular cancer issues. Kleiza's good, tough and cheap, we know, but was off the table from everything I've read. Denver is full of offense-first players and they were in a playoff hunt but still wouldn't bite on Randolph.

Conflicting stories but Zach (and maybe a first-round pick and $3 mil?) to the Clippers for a second-round pick (or maybe Brevin Knight). Would've been a straight salary dump for us as structured and would've further showed how low Zach's value is. Walsh declined to much criticism.

And now this rumor of Zach for Darko. Notice how in each deal, the Knicks are getting screwed over in some way? But in this one with Memphis, Darko's contract runs up before 2010 and Memphis actually has pieces they're willing to part with (Lowry's name is ALWAYS out there) because they already have their core.

My feeling on Zach is not that he can't be productive for us (pure scorers score, they just do) and, therefore, must go. He'd probably be on the high post setting picks like Diaw was for D'Antoni. Diaw is a way better passer from there but Zach is a way better shooter from that range, so give and take - it's up to D'Antoni and Zach to make the most out of it. What won't go away though is stories of Zach on the trading block and that has to make you believe that something about him - either contract, attitude, or play style, probably all three - doesn't make him part of the future. Whether it's now or later, with this deal or something marginally better, it's an inevitability. But for those same reasons, his value is low so any trade will have to involve a Darko-like player and contract. But getting picks and/or young talent with cheap contracts in addition to the Darko's out there is where we really rebuild.

I don't think anyone thinks we'll be a better team with Darko, just more balanced on D and be in better cap shape. No one's suggesting that Lowry's quickness and steal rate makes him the next Chris Paul either. But he's a young talent with upside who plays good D and has a questionable offensive game. Not too long ago, NY was hot about another unproven player named Russell Westbrook who brought similar things to the table. Let's also not forget that we don't have a first round pick in 2010 either, so getting a pick or a talent on a rookie contract is essential. That's why Alan said, "That's where I'd start."

Gian, great post. You are on target, IF the Knicks can deal Randolph, and its a big IF, then it will be for injured players, players with lousy contracts (but maybe shorter) and possibly an untested player or second round pick.

That's the best we can hope for to dump Randolph. And he is absolutely the wrong player for D'Antoni's system so keeping him will likely lower, not raise his value.

@Willis. Back at you. The pleasure is mine.

Thanks DaJoka, I intend to keep a couple of seats warm in the blogosphere this upcoming season and one of them will be right next to you in Fixer Row. Either this season will be a fun ride or we will need all the life-support and fellowship we can get to get through it.

@Alan. I think we’re just play-jousting a little over emphasis (on intelligence) not substance. If you’re talking about Championships there is no way I would argue against the need for high b-ball awareness, concentration or IQ. But, you’re a little early on that Championship talk, I think. I think that D’Antoni believes he can make it happen here in the up-tempo offensive sets, but we both know that he didn’t leave Phoenix simply because he had a better chance to win the chip in Da City. Sarver and Kerr were disrespectful in that they did not believe in D’Antoni’s way, like D’Antoni does. Sarver let his guy Brian Colangelo walk and Kerr thinks his NBA Ameri-chips are make him more knowledgeable about winning the O'Brien Trophy than D’Antoni’s Euro-chips. Kerr is telling his folks that D’Antoni did not properly develop Stoudimere and that he wanted a greater emphasis on defense – even greater than when Iavoroni was calling the defensive shots.

My only concern is the perpetuation of the notion that D’Antoni’s offensive-oriented game takes some superior intellect that is not required in a more balanced system. But, let’s agree to our mild disagreement on the role of intellect here and come back to it during the season.

But check this out, I’ve got something on ball-smarts that the baller in you will definitely not disagree with. Exhaustion can make anyone stupid. The point is that if these men tire easily from running the court, they will look basketball dumb anyway. You remember how your decision-making abilities waned in that all-star reporters game as you watched Starberman drive right by you to the hole as you were slowly thinking “I am out of position. I'm not thinking straight” Fortunately, he missed the lay-up. (Go on smile).

I suggest to you that their conditioning will dictate their ability to succeed in this system as much as anything else and bad conditioning will lower their bball IQ substantially. (Will D'Antoni overplay Crawford and Robinson like his predecessor. Remember, he did have a habit of overplaying Nash.)

I think you’re right on Herb. Nice guy. We love him. But, is he really capable of coaching defense to this bunch? The way D’Antoni delegates, Herb would be like a second head coach, sorta-kinda. Should I stop crying? I just remember how much he disappointed me when Isiah was kicked out of a game last season and he looked woefully unprepared. And that stint as Knicks coach. . . . Nice guy, but. . . . oh, well. I’ll wait to here back from you on that story. If so, I hope he succeeds.
I vote for Weber -- tell you why later.

The Zach issue is a tough one beyond me, but I will note what Larry Bird said about how deceptive triple doubles are if your team doesn’t win. Agreed. The flip side is that Zach comes to ball every-time.

Last point. Don’t you folks think there is a problem with this team being far too soft. Where are our enforcers? Where is our muscle – in James belly? I understand what is being said about playing small (a size that fits Euro-ball), but Gents, if the refs allow the type of physical play the Celtics got away with last year – we are not equipped. (Didn’t I see Bosh get physical in the Olympics). Philosophically we’re going West and the rest of the East is going old school. Is this the way to a Championship? Just a question for now.

Soft - you mean like baby doo doo?

Absolutely. Another artifact of Zeke. Get a bunch of offensive players. Hmmmmm, need some defensive players. Oh no, now I have to coach em and I can't figure out how to play them all together (remember poor Jeffries ending up with the ball in the post with the shot clock at 5?).

A nasty soup, a thin gruel. Duhon I believe is an attempt to get a two way player. Chandler shows he wants to shut guys down, Jeffries is desperate to make a mark on D. But you are talking cojones I believe. I wholeheartedly agree. The guy(s) that hate(s) to lose and brings the nasty. Its early yet, Walsh went above and beyond in the 90's after Oak and Patrick gave notice. The Davis boys, even Smits got a chip on his shoulder. I believe he will find us some players who will be gamers. (That Bird guy was a son of a you know what and Walsh gave him the keys to the car.) Here's hoping.

From ESPN.com: Warriors' Ellis out at least 3 months after ankle surgery

Ellis underwent surgery Wednesday in Birmingham, Ala., to repair a torn deltoid ligament in his left ankle, after he informed the club late last week that he had injured himself working out. More specifics about how Ellis sustained the injury were not immediately available.
The team confirmed the injury Wednesday afternoon. Ellis and returned to the Bay Area later in the day.
Ellis' ankle will be immobilized for six weeks, followed by at least six weeks of off-court rehab before the guard can return to basketball workouts.
Ellis will miss training camp and the Warriors' preseason schedule, which includes a trip to China, along with at least the first month of the regular season.
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Don Nelson doesn't have much time left there, think they would be interested in Nate and Zach? Mullin took a chance on Webber and has a good relationship with Walsh.

All stop talking about portland giving Zach away. They wanted cap space and Steve provided that for them. It allowed them to get way under the cap and they also picked up Frye who before he got hurt was plaing better then Lee.

This made the Zach trade a no brainer.

When sheed was traded to Detroit this was the package
( The Detroit Pistons have acquired forward/center Rasheed Wallace from the Atlanta Hawks and guard Mike James from the Boston Celtics as part of a three-way deal that sends guards Chucky Atkins and Lindsey Hunter to Boston and guard Bobby Sura, center Zeljko Rebraca and Celtics forward Chris Mills to Atlanta)

I didn't hear people question his trade value at the time. Trade happen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow..excellent points knicksmyteam!!!
That is true,,,nobody said anything about that trade.

Lives, I'll be more than happy to sit through another season with you and the guys. You, Peaceman, kinicksdefense and a few others already know me as I have been posting with you guys for years. I had to change my name because I figured it wasn't a good idea to have the name I had.

As a matter of fact...if it wasn't for people like you, Peaceman, KD and everybody that used to post at all the old sites....I would've been stopped watching the Knicks. (I'm a true fan so probably not, but you guys know where I'm coming from.)

Back to the matter at hand...I am not trading Lee along with Zach for freaking Darko and Lowry or whatever the deal was. Are you kidding me?

That's 30 Points and 21 rebounds for what?

The New York Knicks ...From Four Corners.

Hah I love it nobody wants to trade David Lee but they wont tell you what to do with him..Surely nobody wants to resgin him to a big money deal thats the last thing we need. That way we can sit in here and talk about how maybe we can get it done in 2014 when david lee's deal comes off the books. Hilarious how people in here want to reward mediocrity, he has done nothing but play on crap teams since college..

Keeping 2010 alive
with some roster reshaping bulljie

Besides get 10 and 10 off the bench every night...and be one of the few that hustles on both ends.

Sounds like great reasons to let the guy go...GENIUS!

Somebody gets D. Lee in the weightroom for a couple extra sessions and he becomes the "enforcer". He is already a scrappy, hard-nosed kid.

Keepin' Old School...

The Rooster didn't even make Hon Mention on the Must Watch Rookie Team

BullJive, dude ... No one is suggesting you give DLee a max contract. But the guy is a gamer, and the type of player that does the little things that makes winning teams even better. Aren't those the types of players we're trying to acquire?

I don't see anyone suggesting we resign Curry and Crawford, so stop using that argument about losing for five more years...it just isn't relevant.

Old School,

We need an "Old School" enforcer on this squad....yanno, someone like your namesake. True, D. Lee is a scrappy kid, but hardly the enforcer type.

Getting in the weightroom and putting on a couple of pounds doesn't make you an enforcer. Unless you got the cahones to back it up, it only makes you an imposter.

Lee's overrated!!!!!!

Yes I said it and I will continue to say it. He's a good player but you guys make him out to be an allstar.

Lee benefited the most from Curry's bad season. If it wasn't for Curry being off. Lee's minutes would've been cut in half.

@Bulljive. I'm all for trading D. Lee but not simply as a throw in. I would prefer to trade D. Lee for a shotblocker and rebounder with a decent mid range jumper or a pure point guard who can start. I would never suggest signing him to a max contract, and I do think Knick fans way overrate him, but he is better than Lowery or Darko, or Warrick. That trade sets you back and fills no needs. It just makes no practical sense. Randolph I understand because the argument is that you are clearing out salary for 2010 but D.Lee has a minimal salary that expires before 2010, you can let him walk or trade him for talent that fits a need in return. You don't have to give him away since you are under no obligation to sign him long term and he is one of your best rebounders, a serious weakness on this team.

"he has done nothing but play on crap teams since college.."

It's statements like that...which make me think there is a college somewhere that teaches monkeys how to use keyboards.
Can you please tell us what TEAMS!!! your talking about?

He's only played on one team since college. If I'm not mistaken, he won the Chip in college at Florida. So what losers are you talking about?

Once again...people will tell you not to trade david lee but nobody will say what to do with him...So lets hear smart guys, if you dont wanna trade him then u wanna resign him to 10/mil a year that his agent said he was looking for?

Its easy to sit and cry and say you wanna keep him but then what? Quit saying he is good over and over again i agree..thats not the point.

And he didnt win anything at Florida you moron, Learn the facts before you get on here and post

@ DaJoka: I think the college you are referring to is Duke . . .

you guys need to relax. i think the guy just meant that since playing for a good team in college, Lee's been a standout on bad Knicks teams. And that because the Knicks suck and Lee's a player, he stands out a little more and could be overrated.

Can't say that I agree, though. I think Lee got the short end of the stick with Thomas, who refused to start him.

If they could dump Zach, and it works out to keep Lee on and keep the 2010 goal of getting under the cap, they should do all they can to keep him.

Not because he's the most talented guy, but because he plays the right way... He's the kind of guy you keep around to help improve the culture of the franchise. He doesn't take a night off..

Ok fair point Matt, ill give it to ya, and thanks for not just screaming he is good over and over like these other guys with no ideas on how to keep him.

But i disagree that he played on a good college team, it was prolly one of the most overated teams in college basketball history. They were the best class ever recruited and didnt even go to the tourney one year and got knocked out early in the others.

I think Lee was only brought up as an attempt to get Conley instead of Lowry. So people read Lee and Lowry and ran with it. Every team that talks to Memphis about a PG brings up Conley first and it's always rejected, so nothing we could offer would change their minds. It doesn't make sense for Memphis anyway cause Conley, Mayo and Gay make them more than solid on the wing going forward. I'm not even going to touch on throwing in Lee with this deal cause giving up both of our rebounders without getting one in return is ridiculous.

@ K4L: I agree. Lee is often talked about as untouchable mainly because people don't want to see him go. But getting something in return instead of possibly letting him walk at the end of the season is what we should do. His name was brought up with the #5 pick so, agreed, he's certainly not a throw-in; and it seems that teams have interest in Zach without having to include him.

Ronny Turiaf got four years/$17 mil, someone will sign Lee for something similar and probably more because he can start unlike Turiaf. I believe part of moving Zach is freeing up playing time for him and others and how he plays will determine his future. Someone in the playoff hunt will need a cheap, high volume rebounding big to add to their rotation so a trade deadline deal, when teams are more likely to give up picks, is a better move.

He plays the right way!!!.

Lets look at this further. The guy can't shoot, can't pass, but he can rebound and he hustles. Sound to me like another version of Jerome Williams.

If he every developes a JUMP SHOT the guy could be a valuable asset coming off the bench. Until that time, he's nothing more then a hustle player. Fans of loosing teams love hustle players because they think most of the team gave up already.

If you guys call Lee a good passer the Zach must be an assist king. He average more assist then Lee with fewer minutes played.

Folks,
I rarely ever post but i do read here to get my fix daily.....just browsing through the comments and i figured to leave some of my ideas.....1) Getting rid of zach needs to happen. Even if we get antoine walker and then waive him (eat his salary)....this works with the 2010 plan & just as important gives more time to gallo, chandler & lee....2) If we do have to trade lee to get rid of zach then we should do it...hes going to walk at the end of the year. Comparables have him getting 10 mil per year and if you do the math (crawford, curry Jared Jefferies are all getting paid lots in 2011) they wont be able to go after one of the big free agents...i get excited to watch a lot of these younger guys....its these over paid players with not much heart i dont want to look at...z-bo has to go and if we have to trade dlee with him...than so be it....hes going to walk off anyways and we cant afford to pay him 10 mil for 5 years....keeping zach and lee hurts us more because it gives less minutes to our younger guys and obviously kills our game with curry.....bringing him in the first place was a huge mistake...

@knicks myteam -- When I'm saying he plays the "right" way, I'm not talking about his skill set.

He might lack in the shooting department. But the fact that he hustles, I think, is reason enough to make an effort to keep him.

It sounds cliched and everything, but it's not all about the talent.

Lee's by no means untouchable (no one is on a 23 win team), but if you're trying to rebuild a team the "right" way and instill a new culture at the Garden where you're putting a team out that plays good team ball and works hard, then Lee (even though he still needs work on his shot) is the kind of guy you try to hang onto.

Matt -great post

Keep in mind that the knicks problems are at the point. If you have a point guard on this team it makes all the difference. Last year the ball would go to three people (in order) Crawford, Zach, then Nate. You can't blame these players for the offense the IT ran. If you change the culture the value of these player will go up...

Imagine this team with a point guard!!!!!!

But Like most NBA coaches will tell you " If a person can average 20 and 10 while being doubled, he's a special player"

LOL,

No matter what Knick blog, past or present, two words can make all hell break loose. They are 1. Trade, 2. Lee. I don't believe either Lee or Zach are going anywhere before trade deadline in 2009. I believe Chandler has ink as a starter, and most likely Lee also has ink. Pencil both Curry and Zach in as this years training camp is a "Show me" for both.

BTW Fixers,
Go to Knicks.com, and besides Lee, the only other two guys that flash across the top of their website may also have "ink."

@ knicksmyteam - Get your facts straight: Lee 55% FG (Games played (GP): 81)...next closest Knick player (w/ over 65 GP)?

Anyone? Anyone?

Zbo - at 45%!!!!

He obviously hit something...and you can't say there weren't some jumpers in there (even if they were "jump" hooks!).

You can't blame a guy whos gets in position for put-backs and dunks, can you...seriously?

@ GIan: yeah I think the suggestion was Lee for Conley but if Memphis wouldn't go for that, do Lee for Lowrey. I like Conley's game but no way Memphis does that deal so the fallback was Lee for Lowrey which is crazy.

@ Anonymous: I agree with and understand your feelings about getting minutes for the young guys. But we really only have two PFs on the roster (unless you include Malik Rose who is past his prime). I don't think we really want our young guys (Danillo, Chandler) playing extended minutes out of position at the 4 banging with JO, Bosh, Reggie Evans, Beasley, etc. We would also not have any rebounding because our centers don't rebound. We don't play good on the ball defense so we are going to have to harrass shots, get the rebound and get out on the break to try to get easy transition baskets. Without that second component we can't run which is why I think Larry Brown wouldn't let the Knicks run when Stephon requested it. And to the poster who suggested IT ruined Lee by not starting him, remember LB also didn't start Lee and we had Channing Frye then.

Lee is not going anywhere...what was Crawfords FG%?
Like it was stated earlier...Lee had the best percentage on our team. So what he can't shoot jump shots.
I don't care about that...then again...who am I right?
I messed up on the Florida thing but it doesn't matter. Lee is a good player and that Florida team was not bad the way you say it was. He is more than a hustle player....especially when he was averaging a double double. People think they know so much and don't know anything.
You would trade Lee wouldn't you?
I bet you would.
You probably still think we're going to get Lebron also don't you?
Wade is more of a possibility and maybe Bosh. The person who I think would want to come here more than anyone is Amare.
He loves Dantoni (like everybody else in the league, except Phil Jax).

Foolio

You must really be a fool. FG% is the worst statistic. If you're looking at this only, then Lee is better then Kobe 45%. All I said was people say Zach doesn't pass but he has more assist then Lee.
They also call him Lazy but he was the #1 rebounder on the team. He was also 2nd in scoring. Why not give the guy a break.

I've been saying this for years. Lee is a average player on a below average team. If you could put either Lee and Zach on the spurs what one would make the team better? Also imagine Zach on the Cavs. Now imagine Lee on that team, wait they already have someone like Lee. (varijou)

Lee is more like Noah from the Bulls.....

Dajoka you cant post anymore you showed your by no means a basketball fan if you didnt know Florida didnt win a ring with DLEE

Haha and then he called us all idiots because we didnt know..lol..classic

Dajoka you cant post anymore you showed your by no means a basketball fan if you didnt know Florida didnt win a ring with DLEE

Haha and then he called us all idiots because we didnt know..lol..classic

@ knicksmyteam:
What Fo