The Neutral Corner

Pacquiao's lack of Boxing Skill puts him out of my top 20. Top 30 maybe.

He took on Barrera and Morales once they had those great wars. He beat an old De la Hoya. And many (if not most) thought he lost to Juan Manuel Marquez twice.

We saw him in 2 fights recently. One against a punching bag(De La Hoya) and the other one for 2 rounds. It's hard to see the improvement.

Look, these authors besides Ronnie, are nothing but haters. Always trying to make up an excuse why Pacquiao won. Get over it, Pacman is unstoppable right now and he's improving dramatically fight after fight. After he beats Mayweather (a boring fighter that run's away).. what are you really going to say about that? He's pretty much going to train to run away from Pac. Live up to it!

Marquez probably should've won the last fight because of his great comeback performance. But IF they ever fight again, Marquez will get murdered out cold for sure. Manny's been fighting alot different, like they say "a complete fighter" now than he was a few fights back. He's the face of boxing and the reason why millions and millions of people are still watching the gentleman sport. MMA took over but Pac brought boxing back.

and then again you will always have these experts or should i say these so called experts!

It's very interesting how great fighters that have fought many battles are belittled when someone comes along and tears them up to shreds. You guys are telling me that Oscar, Diaz, Barrera, Morales and Hatton were washed up and that is why they looked bad against Pacquiao. If they fight again with enough training time, they probably would still beat most that is out there now. As for Marquez, he was taken to the canvas 4 times by Manny so if you you think he will survive the next fight without going down again, I'll take that bet any day. I'm a Manny Fan, but I'm also a fan of Oscar, Morales, Barrera, Hatton. They fought big wars and won most of them. I wouldn't belittle these guys because they still can take on the best of them.

No excuses, The-Man, no excuses. The end justifies the means and at the end of the day, the judges scores still stands and he was deemed the winner. One more time, he WAS deemed the winner. So who cares about your top 20 anyway?

You guys say that "many" people think that Marquez should have won the fight. Did you guys even think about how many agree that Pacquiao did win the fight but opted to just avoid voicing their opinion so as not to make things worst? A lot of them think of your kind as sore losers. That's right, you are one sore loser, and losers always cry out the loudest. They will always find ways to say that justice was not served.

The milk's already spilt and I just can't stand people who cry over spilt milk.

All the boxers Manny had beaten were once on top of their game until
they met him and then suddenly they got old overnight. I agree that
Marquez was close in beating him but he didn't..it all depends on who
you're rooting for, as simple as that.

All the boxers Manny had beaten were once on top of their game until
they met him and then suddenly they got old overnight. I agree that
Marquez was close in beating him but he didn't..it all depends on who
you're rooting for, as simple as that.

Boy..boy...boy..Mike Silver..is one Moron for sure when he compare Wilfred Benitez to the "Great" Manny Pacquiao.
What Mike Silver doesn't notice is that the speed of Manny and Benitez is in comparable. If you put Benitez with Manny in the ring, you will see Benitez getting knock out in round 1. He can not survived round1 with Manny Pacman. I bet my house on Manny to fight these turtle Benitez. I have never seen anybody has the skills like Manny does. Wake up stupid....

Boy..boy...boy..Mike Silver..is one Moron for sure when he compare Wilfred Benitez to the "Great" Manny Pacquiao.
What Mike Silver doesn't notice is that the speed of Manny and Benitez is in comparable. If you put Benitez with Manny in the ring, you will see Benitez getting knock out in round 1. He can not survived round1 with Manny Pacman. I bet my house on Manny to fight these turtle Benitez. I have never seen anybody has the skills like Manny does. Wake up stupid....

You don't know Manny Pacquiao if you don't think today he's the greatest! You have neither been watching nor reading others, only your own thoughts.

Wake up all you fouls...Marquez can lick Manny's blackest ass and say goodbye...don't even put back and forth about manny people think Marquez win both fight. If Marquez was that good, how come he can't knock Manny pacquiao out cold. Pacquiao gave Marquez two chances and still he can't do shit!
Now stop barking and shoutup dumb dogs...my advice to you is better analyze PacMan harder next time...otherwise Marquez will get knockout cold the next fight Manny "the great" meet with marquez.

Real Analysis of the PacMan:

-Extremely Fast Speed.
-Hard Power shots
-Highly Accuracy
-Straight Shots
-Slick twist or turns
-Elusive target
-Great foot work
-Body Steel (Bamboo Train)
-Endurance Fighter

If you don't have any of the above, don't even think of touching Manny ...because if you mess with the best...you'll die with the rest.

Boy..boy...boy..Mike Silver..is one Moron for sure when he compare Wilfred Benitez to the "Great" Manny Pacquiao.
What Mike Silver doesn't notice is that the speed of Manny and Benitez is in comparable. If you put Benitez with Manny in the ring, you will see Benitez getting knock out in round 1. He can not survived round1 with Manny Pacman. I bet my house on Manny to fight these turtle Benitez. I have never seen anybody has the skills like Manny does. Wake up stupid....

You know...I am sick of people using excuses. If fighters that fought Manny weren't good, maybe it is time for the boxing organizations to take their license away. And I am sick of so called experts who are constantly diminishing the lights of Manny Pacquaio. What has he ever done other than to fight his opponents that people have asked for? The same arguments can be made about any fighters since the inception of boxing. Let us not lessen the accomplishments, but give the praise when due.
As far as my concern, Manny is the greatest fighter. He didn't avoid any fights, which I can't say the same about Ali, who didn't give George Forman the rematch. Does that mean Ali is not great?
Ali didn't go down to lighter weight class? Does that make him less?
The point is that you can make the stupid excuses as to why he is not great.
Nevermind. People are idiot, and I am wasting my breath and digits.
Wait. If Manny was black or white, would he be considered as great? It seems to be that people have difficulty accepting an Asian fighter who has fought those who were available to him.
I think people's comments are racially motivated. In another word, don't be a racist.

Manny is in the top level there is...No one on earth can compare to him. I think people are truly jealouse of Manny when they said Marquez win both fight when pacquiao floor him 4 times in two fight and no respond back. That says a lot about Manny as a great fighter.

Mike Silver, your opinion that Pacman would not have beaten your long list of fighters from yesteryear shows your utter lack of mathematical foundation. Essentially you are saying that the fighters of today do not compare in skill to that long list of yours. From a probability standpoint, your position is very very highly unlikely.

I am 60 years old and have been a big fight fan since I got into my first fist fight 50 years ago. I know when to give credit when it is due. Pacman will beat fighters in your list that includes Antonio Cervantes, Wilfredo Benitez, Nicolino Loche, Carlos Ortiz, Eddie Perkins, Dulio Loi or Aaron Pryor. The only one that would give Pacquiao competition would be Aaron Pryor and I would bet that Pacquiao knocks him out.

Mike, you come across as a sour grape who will say anything to denigrate Pacquiao's accomplishment. You cannot accept that a man of poor stature from a third world country has been kicking the butts of fighters who were deemed to be "great" before Pacquiao came to be. Now, you say that these fighters are all washed out. Hatton at 30 cannot be washed out. Shane Mosley is still fighting at 37 and is still great. Give Pacquiao his due. When he knocks out Mayweather or Marquez, will you give him his due?

You know...just because Manny force a lot of fighters to retire..you don't have to be mad at Manny or dis-credit him. Almost every fighter who fought Manny in the last year or two has been retire. Manny has given all his opponents nightmare and i'am sure they are traumatize by the destruction of Manny. Most of Manny's victim has never face anybody with the skills level and speed of Manny. Please take your cash and go get some nice back and enjoy. You don't want to see Manny again. Manny is just a huge tornado that will wipe you out completely with out a doubt. Manny, I wish you can fight forever...God bless you brother...ASIAN...Manny is a Bruce Lee re-born. I truely believe that.

Manny Pacquiao is Bruce Lee's reborn....He has reborn to be Philipino because his best friend is Philipino. He did not complete is adventure last life so he has re-birth to complete his journey that has set up in his last life. Manny "the Bruce Lee" you have been re-born again...I was shock and passout when you knock hatton out cold...good luck to you..

-- Quoting Bert Sugar --

Boxing historian Bert Sugar, in an interview with Philboxing’s Hermie Rivera, said Pacquiao is definitely the best Asian fighter ever.

Sugar puts Pacquiao in the company of Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali and Sugar Ray Robinson.

-- End quote.

I know Bert Sugar and he knows what he is talking about. .

The two fights between PAcman and MArquez were judged by
six people, did it mean that we contest their decision that Manny's win or draw was
big mistake?The major problem with judging whether a boxer is an all time great
is that most critics ,no exception, always reflects on their own
personal experiences and who they are rooting to.It's simply subjective and
difficult to quantify like a mathematical problems. The boxing
analyst are careful if not conscious about the effect of their writing
to the fans on a certain boxer and will be dubbed as bias.Another boxing analyst
would like to portray himself as fair and neutral as he thought this is what the reader wants.
Thus, there will always be disagreements among boxing analyst.I am for Manny Pacman,
whether he will lose or win,it doesn't matter, you on the other hand
may like Hatton or Mayweather, it doesn't matter either.No one
among us is a certified by a third party as a quant in boxing's
indexing.

how many times i have seen these so called journalist knock manny's achievement

heres some of them

"could not fight quality fighters in the past"?
what do you call morales, barrera and dela hoya??????? chopped liver??

call mohammad ali the greatest?? he only talks and talks
and if you watch all his fight hes like hatton...HE CLINCH!!! ALOT
you can see it in rumble in the jungle whenever foreman gets him in the ropes...hug hit hug hit hug

F__K all you journalist report on something else
dont pretend to be a sport journalist if you dont know what your talking about coz you sound like an idiot

Hhaha manny the bruce lee reborn hahah look he is great a rwally good fighter but when it comes to boxing mayweather is better he is a real boxer and he will bring manny back to reality sure manny is a great ambassador for all the filo geeks out there

the comparison of pacquiao's status today should never be gauge alongside leonard, duran and hearns since every fighter has his own era. neither should be the notion about the washed up opponents that they've encounter in their own generation. if we do that, we are like comparing our young wives to our dear old mothers who would never be bested since it is a given stature of respect in their own right. pacquiao is this generation's leonard, duran and hearns with a liitle spice of ali rollled into one. how about that for an analysis! his destiny in the roster of all time great is just a matter of formality when the time comes for him to hang up his gloves. he don't have to prove anything anymore. did leonard, duran and hearns inspire a nation in their own era like putting down their guns (rebels and soldiers) for the sake of watching their fight like pacman does in this generation. i think thats more than to say he has accomplished more in his time than all of these all time greats combined in and outside the ring. and that is what matters! happy mother's day to all mothers reading these!

racists!!! these writers are racists except nathanielz.With his huge accomplishment if manny was an american or brits they would have agree that he is one the greatest fighter of all time..but sad to say manny is an asian thats why no matter how great he can accomplish he will never be recognise by this racists journalist!!

Hey you all douchbags! Answer this questions first.
1)How many times have you won in a boxing match?
2)How many times have you won matches in different weight classes?
3)How many time have you beaten Morales,Dela Hoya,Barrera,Marquez,Hatton?
4)If you considered all of Manny's won is fought with "Over the hill fighters" then are you sure that you can beat them also?
5)Does number of boxing critiques call you P4P king?
6)Have you fought someone in a boxing match?

Before you open all yout mouth so I can drive my wang in it, PROVE yourself first please!

Mike Silver has some absurd analogies, Larry Holmes was a HEAVY WEIGHT defeating an over the hill HEAVY WEIGHT, in other words they were in the same weight class, Pacquiao was basically a super featherweight destroying a Jr. Middle Weight.
Comparing the two is downright stupid.

Is this the type of boxing historians we are stuck with nowadays, Silver could mention that Duran was trimming down from over 200 lbs to make that second fight with Leonard, and Tommy Hearns also over trained for the Leonard fight. Yet these are Sugar Ray's proof of greatness?

These weak arguments and false analogies are as weak as Hatton's bumblings in the ring with Pacman.

Idiot journalists.

The-Man

"We saw him in 2 fights recently. One against a punching bag(De La Hoya) and the other one for 2 rounds. It's hard to see the improvement."

--
Im sure you considered Manny as a lesser fighter than Floyd Mayweather.

Let's do the math
Floyd took 9 rounds to knock Hatton.
Manny only took 2 rounds.

For me thats a lot of improvement there.
Who dou think will win the the Oscar Punching bag Dela Hoya( and yourself?

I posted twice earlier and both times they were edited. So much for free speech here. These writers can write what they want but cannot take criticism. Cowards!

Brian Doogan and Mike Silver conveniently forget that Pacquiao has fought above 130 only a little more than a year. He has swept all 4 weights in succession. Also, they show the kind of duplicity common among Western journalists, especially British and American, of giving credit to someone and taking it away later almost in one sentence, 'he's good...but', that sort of thing. Yeah, Pacquiao is great but his opponents were patsies, that kind of thing.

Doogan and Silvers are quick to give De La Hoya and Hatton alibis, which the two fighters themselves had the decency not to offer. Doogan and Silver never gave a hint that De La Hoya and Hatton were already has beens. Such remarks always come after the fights.

Before the De La Hoya fight, just about everybody predicted the Golden Boy to win, even the betting odds went heavily in his favor. Assuming that he was dehydrated, which is not an excuse since he had a whole day to bulk up. But he was also much taller and with a significantly longer reach and supposedly with all that experience and savvy. Also, and Doogan and Silver fail to see this. In going up in weight people also thought that Pacquiao would be slower. The fact that he wasn't should count to his greatness as a fighter. If one would partially attribute greatness to Muhammad Ali his quickness and fleet footedness, which indeed the boxing world has, why not Pacquiao?

As to Pacquiao's demolition of Hatton, nobody predicted it to be short. Hatton was four pounds heavier and had only been knocked out once before, by an opponent who was as heavy as he. Besides, he was just fresh from a knockout victory himself.

As to the Marquez bout, we'll that may have been close and could have gone either way. The same can be said of the second Hearns-Leonard fight, or of Leonard-Hagler, which, by the way, was reformatted, the ring made bigger and gloves too, to favor Leonard's hit and run style. Too bad Hagler agreed, had he not Leonard may have suffered his only KO loss, as Leonard wouldn't have had enough space to run and Hagler was too tough to be knocked out. Hearns could not put him down, and definitely not Leonard, whose punches are not as hard as those of Hearns. But that's another story. But still to Doogan and Silver, those fights still qualify Leonard as an all-time great. I agree. But unlike Doogan and Silver I don't employ a double-standard.

At any rate nobody can claim now that Pacquiao is only as good now as he was during that fight with Marquez. The next time they fight, Marquez will do nothing but run, as either Pacquiao's left or right, while not able to do the job then, would certainly do the job should they fight now. Just ask the heavier Hatton.

I may not agree with Bob Arum in saying that Pacquiao is the greatest ever. But he definitely is an all-time great. Only, he's not American or British or Latino, the kind of boxers Silver and Doogan have been fixated to. RACISTS.

Warning!!! Do not post here. Your post will be edited. Block this website.

Come on shub in your a$$, stop whining. Get into the program like Bernard Hopkins and Floyd Sr did. Both of them finally put their mouth into their a$$es after pacman shut them down and gave fistful on the ring. I just like to see those folks that are damn cocky-arrogant before the fight because one thing for it will bite them in the a$$ again.

So keep your hopes high on and mouth open wide for Floyd Jr - it is better that way!

And come on give that 60 yr old guy a credit huh, he knows what he's talking about. He's been around while you're still in your dad's ball hanging on it.

Pinoy - the power of rice, balut, and daing and even more secret ingredient which pacman have not telling though - keep it on down low.

I guess tagging Manny as "the greatest of all time" is and will
always be subject to a debate and personal opinion. Simply
because he and those handful of great boxers in history did not
meet in the ring at the same era, fought with different
adversaries, and for obvious reasons that they belong to different
weight classes. There is no universal mathematical tool to
measure this. Each of us will have our own equation.
Having said that, I am not going to praise nor discredit Ronnie,
Mike Silver or Brian Doogan as I am sure you are experts and
have earned credibility in your own fields. I am also not gonna
accept nor totally ignore what Bob Arum had boldly said that
Manny can very well be "the greatest". Let's not forget that this
guy worked with those greats such as Ali. He knows and he has
first-hand experience that WE dont have, and that gives him the
right to declare whatever he wants. But let's also not forget that
this guy is a promoter. Now, whether it is a honest claim, or just
a marketing strategy, we dont know. And I will still have this
question mark. As for now, I think it is safe to say that he is
indeed the greatest asian boxer of all time having accomplished
so much in his career. I am a Pacfan. My dad and I used to watch
him even from his amateur years. Back then we already knew he
is special. We followed his bouts, saw how he would dust himself
up after a defeat and go from there to achieve what he is now. Of
all the nice things Arum said about Manny, there's only one
thing I accepted, that he never stops learning. He always have
that desire to learn and not the "know-it-all" attitude towards his
craft. I think that is pretty special. He is great but certainly not the
greatest, and neither is Ali nor Leonard. There is just no statistical
formula to determine this. All are personal judgement from what
we hear, read or saw.

I liked it when those three writers (Nathanielsz, Doogan and
Silver) described him as a brilliant and a smarter fighter. Somehow
it uplifts the Filipino in me. However, if I may recall a few weeks
prior to the fight, Ricky was said to be the hardest opposition that
Manny will ever have. He is bigger, throws harder punches and
undefeated in his weight division. Now all of a sudden, when he
got beaten up, he is an "ordinary club fighter". He is not, and it is
such an added insult to the injured. He is a champion, whether
you like it or not. It is the reason why people put money on him,
it is the reason why some filipinos including me thought for
a moment that Ricky could be that guy who can stand up against
Manny. Winners deserve credit, and losers also do. And that goes
out to Dela Hoya too. If those wins don't give Manny the kind
of appreciation he deserves, then it's ok. Im pretty sure he doesn't
give a sh*t to our adulation nor our skepticism as well. But this is
what I believe, that in his heart, whenever he steps into the ring
with someone, he only wants to prove he is the "better" fighter,
and not the mythical "all-time greatest" everyone is debating
about. And whether by stroke of luck or sheer strength and
determination, he was able to show us that.

Let me go through again what's happening. He faced Barrera,
Morales, Diaz, Dela Hoya and Hatton even when odds are against
him. He flattened the warrior Barrera, and issues about his past
medical operations surfaced as an excuse. They fought again and
Manny won unanimously. Manny lost to Morales the first time and
it was a good fight. But he settled it by knocking out Morales in
their next two fights. I never heard Manny making excuses about
it. And Morales, being a gentleman, even raised Pacquiao's hand
as the victor. He bloodied Diaz at 135 which was later said to be a
non-worthy opponent as compared to Juan Diaz and Joel
Casamayor. These two guys were later on defeated by JMM,
but the question is, could Manny have ended up beating them as
well? It is just a thought. Instead Pacquiao went for a megabuck
fight against his idol Dela Hoya. Dehydrated, old, washed out or
not, he got beaten. Similar to what ODLH did to Julio Cesar Chavez
Sr. years back. He went on to fight Hatton, a young and fresh
champ at 140. He brutally battered him. And now all of the
excuses you can possibly think of are coming out. I guess we
should accept the fact those oppositions took the challenge of
squaring with Manny and claim that they are, or still are in the top
of their game, but fell short. I would have accepted it had
Manny lost. It is such a cycle, and I would like to think that it is
a human mechanism. For the JMM fans, you have all the right to
contest the draw and the split decision. If Manny had lost, I'm
sure i'll have the same bitterness too. But guess what, apart from
us, it is actually Manny who is most itchy to settle the issue
once and for all. We just have to face the fact that boxing is not
only settling scores but it is also "money-making". Pacquiao
doesn't alone decide on who to face next, it is a consensus
among the people around him, the promoter, trainer, etc. I am not
saying that Pacquiao-Marquez 3 won't be a hit, but perhaps at
that time it won't be as big as Pacquiao-Dela Hoya money-wise.
It is not because he's scared of another Marquez fight. In time,
depending on the future outcome, and if the money is right, the
long-awaited 3rd part will push thru. Just a thought though,
If Manny goes on to beat a line up of champs, including Marquez,
Mosley, Cotto or Mayweather, are we ready to accept it and give
Manny his due credit? Or we would like to see him fight Klitschko
to prove his worth?

If it is hard to quantitate his greatness inside the ring then I would
have to resort to his life outside it. His humility resonates
to the people around him. In one way or another, he has touched
lives whether by fighting or charity works. That for me is
greatness. Whatever may happen in the future, win or lose, I
have his story, one that I can tell to my sons and grandsons about
his legend.

fucking sour grapes mike silver

I really hate it when so called experts say that Manny "technically" lost to Marquez the last two fights. The fights were close and can be called either way. If you want to be technical about it. One of the judges gave Manny a 10-8 round, which he should've gave him a 10-7 round becuase of the three knowdowns Manny inflicted on Marquez. He openly admitted that he made a mistake. With that extra point, the fight would've gave Manny the victory instead of a draw. But they were both a close fight so it went to the cards. We'll the debate goes on. When the fight is close and it goes to the cards then whoever loses or wins is fairly clear cut. Now if you guys think of highway robbery, then look back the the Lewis and Holyfield fight. It was a fiasco. SO when people say Marquez won those fights, I see Manny going 1-0-1. As for the Marquez vs Mayweather, Marquez is goin to give Mayweather a run for his "Money". Mayweather is the heavy favorite but Marquez is a fierce competitor and inflict damage. The only problem about this fight is that "who is going to be the agressor?" It's going to the cards and it will be interesting who is going to come out on top.

Time and again after each overwhelming annihilation of these top rated fighters in the likes of Barrera, Morales, Marquez, Diaz, De La Hoya, and the recent Hatton, its quite very easy for some writers to discredit and shred Manny Pacquiao to pieces with their very rubbish comments. Moreso, after everything sunk in a few days later, excuses always comes out from the mouths of some haters. Some say Marquez should have won both fights against Manny, but some of theses fans have a very selective memory of discounting the fact that JMM was floored down four times in both outings. Lately, most fans are clamoring for a Pacquiao-Mayweather fight. If this megafight happens and Pacquiao destroys him. I don't think these haters would ever shut up. Excuses will always be in the air. How PREDICTABLE these carpers are!

just my point of view... Manny fought the last 14months at 4 different weight divisions... 2 out 4 is for lineal champion, 3 out 4 is for world title and 1 fight were manny moved up 2 division higher. the results: 4wins, 3tko. 5kd... kindly feedback me if there is any fighter achieved this greatness.. even henry armstrong only do it in 3 weight division... wtf!

" Why should beating an ordinary club fighter have any affect on Pacquio’s historical standing? What does it prove?

Because that "ordinary club fighter" was once undefeated and the reigning champion in his weight class.

Mike Silver described Hatton as a club fighter, and Mayweather took 10 rounds to beat Hatton, does that mean he thinks Mayweather is a lousy boxer?

With all this talk of Oscar clearly being shot/over the hill/dehydrated etc, if I were to ask Mike before round 1 of the fight started who he would bet his house on, I'm sure he wouldn't be very sure.

All these "experts" trying to make themselves look/sound good after the fight is just annoying.

I sense anger in the 2 hating articles. Seriously that's pure hating, what else does Pacquiao have to prove? they'll say the same thing about cotto and mosley next too..they are shot bla bla bla.

The man fought the best in whatever weight class he was in. He had wars and demolished barrera and morales, prior to his meeting with morales the man never touched the canvas and made him pull a "no mas" in the 3rd fight. He made barrera's corner throw in the towel. Fought the best being marquez, then obliterated an undefeated fighter at junior welterweight.

Pacquiao is going for guys that can potentially beat him unlike fraud mayweather, and above lightweight its always a david and goliath match for him but he takes on the challenge because he's a pure warrior. I mean the guy is willing to fight cotto and mosley and at one point willing to fight margarito. something fraud jr would never do, despite him being "undersized"

but that's the job of a shitty critic, just go against the obvious just for the sake to have something to criticize. If everybody said he was overrated, these same cornballs would root for him.

Alright people, let's not get all worked up just because two journalists said that Manny Pacquiao is not the best all time or one of the best all time. The fact of that matter is you're only as great as the competition you fight, and while Pacquiao has fought the best at each weight class he's been in, the competition today just does not touch competition that was around during the time of the 30s-50s. Flash Elorde was another great Filipino fighter who was able to beat Sandy Saddler in 1955 and had another competitive fight with him the next year before he had to quit because of a cut over his eye. We're talking about a Saddler that beat Willie Pep something like 4 out of 5 times, and Willie Pep is considered one of the p4p best with a record of 230-11-1 (no typos).
I get what Ronnie is trying to say, that in terms of impact on people, Pacquiao is indeed an all time great, probably the best all time. Who else can say they literally make a nation stop and watch whenever he fought?
But from purely an in-the-ring analysis, pacquiao doesn't come close to a top 10 p4p list. Think about he, people doubt he can beat a Sugar Shane Mosley. what about moving up from that to Ray Leonard? Sugar Ray Robinson? Roberto Duran? Let's not even go there, what about Juan Manuel Marquez? Doogan and Silver's posts may be sobering, but it doesn't make it any less true. I think Pacquiao is the best there is today, and he along with Mosley are my two favorite boxers, but to say he's the best all time?

There is something awry here. Before Pacman fought DLH, the same columnists predicted DLH to win. They also predicted that Hatton would give him a good fight, if not win, praising his conditioning, power, etc.. But after Pacman destroyed them, they all say that DLH and Hatton were shot fighters. Nothing can ever impress these writers when it comes to Pacman.

The bottom line is that Manny Paquiao is so good that he makes opponents look so bad and old. This guys called experts they they ever step up in the ring and train for a fight, Manny is just so quick and can telegraph his opponents fights and counter punch succesfully just when his opponents are thinking about setting up their punch.
He is a very skilled fighter who not only have the gift but also strives and work harder to hone this skill, a smart fighter always prepare and hones on the wak points of his opponent, and this is what he does. Floyd Mayweather will not even win the fight against Marquez.

Frank, you must be Mike Silver the coward hiding behind a different name. You say ---"The fact of that matter is you're only as great as the competition you fight, and while Pacquiao has fought the best at each weight class he's been in, the competition today just does not touch competition that was around during the time of the 30s-50s". -- Once again, we have a "know it all" who probably wasn't alive in the 30s. All you have is hearsay. You are someone who utterly lacks mathematical foundation. What is the likelihood that 30s - 50s fighters are much more superior to today's fighters? Very highly unlikely if you understand statistics and probabilities. If anything else, one can make a case that today's fighters beats the fighters of yesteryear because of the advancement in scientific and nutrition methods. You Frank, remind me of a white dork who purports to know everything about boxing. When a fight broke out, this dork was the fastest to run and was nowhere to be found. What a coward!

Trooper says that nothing will ever impress these writers. This is so true. These white boys cannot accept the fact that a little Asian man demolished a bigger white fighter in Hatton. It is an insult to their manhood, you see. I take it back, it is not an insult to their manhood. It really just exposes the lack of their manhood.

Pacquiao fought against bigger guys and knocked them out. Delahoya and Hatton fought a smaller guy and both got demolished. Enough said. Only a person with low IQ will continue to argue.

Ronnie is the only person above who has a clear understanding of what he is saying. The rest are of course doubters but none the less have their own opinions on pacman which is healthy sign since we need these guys to fire up more interest on the latters' boxing ability and popularity. Needless to say, pacman, as I have noticed in his last fight should not be paired against lesser oponents anymore since it is obvious that he is a very dangerous man inside the boxing ring. We do not want accidents to happen and the sports officials should take note of that. Hatton was very lucky to come out alive.

ahahh cve... seriously? You're gonna try to tell me that I'm a little nerdy white weakling who does armchair qb analysis on boxing when you're the one who's gonna bring up "statistics and probabilities"? Plus you seem to know a lot aobut what the cowardly dork would do should a fight break out... first person point of view?

So i'm the coward hiding behind a different name when you just put up an abbreviation in your name huh? Gotcha....

Anyway to get to your point. Even people who kinda follow boxing know that there were way more venues for fights back then and boxers had more fights, so there were more places for them to learn what they were doing. Sure today's guys get treated with better nutrition, but any real trainer will tell you that the old school training, hitting the bag/pads, sparring, and running is the best for you to get good in boxing anyway. There's in the ring conditioning and out of the ring conditioning, and those guys who fought more were just more in the ring conditioned. You think sugar ray robinson couldn't get go 12 hard fast rounds with anybody from light heavyweight on down today? So what you're syaing is that just cause there's better physical conditioning methods for these guys outside the ring that they'll beat the best from the 50s, as many fights as those guys had and as well schooled as they were from all those fights? You gotta be conditioned to BOX, not just conditioned to run really fastor jump really high, or get bigger cuase that just means you'll fight higher weight classes.

"Pacquiao fought against bigger guys and knocked them out. Delahoya and Hatton fought a smaller guy and both got demolished. Enough said. Only a person with low IQ will continue to argue."
-- Argue what? I already said in my first post Pacquiao was probably the best today, and that I think is barely, he'd have to beat mosley and mayweather first for me to see that, dont' forget about Cotto, and TIm Bradley. Just cause someone fights and beats bigger guys that he's the best all time? It's not exactly an insult to say someone's not the best boxer ever.

PS: I also said that Pacquiao and Mosley are my two favorite boxers around today, so yes, that definitely shows that I'm just a nerdy little white dude who hates seeing an Asian guy fight their way up the ranks and take my manhood.

No one is saying Pac is GOAT at this point in time, maybe he's on his way. It's just sad that they keep discrediting Pac's wins/achievements. I can see what's gonna happen if Pac and Mayweather do fight, and Pac beats Mayweather, the next thing they'll say is Mayweather isn't as good as he was before because of his time off during his retirement, and that the win does not not prove anything.

CVE. You are the only one here talking about race. If you can't respect people's opinions, then go somewhere else.

Mike Silver is a two tongued boxing analyst. He predicted the fight between Hatton and Pacquiao to be a close well fought event. Now that we have seen the result of that fight, a demolition of Hatton to be exact, he is now calling Hatton (his exact words) "an ordinary club fighter" when he was all praises for Hatton before the event. Mike Silver should be stripped of his analyst job for not being man enough sticking to his guns. And most of these so called boxing analysts are envious of the P4P Kings achievements that they will not afford him his dues.

Pacman puts the best into retirement *period
Fighters wanted to retire giving best not their worst.
(They spend money and time for it)
They are in their best and they know what to have
to win and become a champion when Manny beats them.
(or else they wouldn't accept the fight and
confidently announced that they will beat the pacman)
These so called experts underestimate Manny P.
in his every fight and he always proves them wrong or
above their expectations.
Pacman is full of suprprises that no boxing experts
could predict what will happen next.
"Only God knows . . . . . and Freddy Roach" :P
That is what makes Manny "Pacman" Pacquiao
an all time great.

Uh shit...What do these boxing analyst know other than wipe their ass every time they shit. Oviously they don't. Just be quiet and let Manny shut them up. I heard a lot of morons were saying after pacman vs hatton fight oh they were surprise to see Ricky knock out cold in round 2. Will that's because these kind of bull keep circling around that's why you see a knock out cold proof. All you Pacman fans out there, please just be silence and let these dumb arrogance talk. I'm sure manny will proof his true work in the ring every time. Get your $$$ ready to put on the PACMAN and will count quietly with a smile after the fight. Let Manny be our mouth. Just remember, being arrogant doesn't make you great. Look at Manny, every time he beat down an apponent, he does get arrogant or cocky what so ever. He just say he only does his job. True warior never gets cocky. It's only coward like Mayweather that does and like these boxing analyst. So once and for all just be quiet and let the great manny pacman do his work. Peace for manny fans!

Mike, you don't know what you are talking about! How can you say there's no fighter out there to test how great Pacquiao really? What was all the other fights that he's already fought? Do you consider that just a sparring match? Training if you will? Then if you think that, then all fights should be won and lost, and belts change hands at the gym and not global stage.

Pacquiao's been tested by Marquez, Barrera, Morales... all these guys were at the top of their games but they all went down with Pacquiao's left hand.

I give credit to Manny he started 106 lbs and fought at 147 lbs and maintain his supremacy in the ring. He fought bigger man and he them gives no chances to win but to stay in the ring and be the target; he move to 135lbs from 130lbs, move to 147lbs to give De la Hoya a fight, and move to 140 lbs to give Hatton a fight, is it wasn’t amazing just to fought big guys. It wasn’t just a fight but it was an entertaining fight and full of surprises, and what I love Manny is his very down to earth he never say rude against his opponent after the tremendous fight. His skills are fruits of enduring practice in the gym and he never treated his opponent least skills, I just can’t question his ability. I consider Manny as a great fighter of all times.

manny is very great fighter and magnanimous human being. however, watch his full fight with hatton and scrutinize carefully his team just before the first round started. was it ok?

lest anyone forgets, pacman won his first fight against jmm. it should'nt have been a draw. one judge made a mistake in scoring the first round (pacman scored 3 ko's). Initially, pacman team wanted to contest the first fight's decision but, as a gesture of good sportsmanship (read between the lines... he's not a sore loser), pacman didn't push through with it. instead, he immediately asked for a rematch. it may be argued that jmm won more rounds. but unless the rules are changed, what matter is the total points after the fight.

as for their second fight, i may belong to the other many people who think pacman won it. hmmm... i guess there are two sides of a coin after all.

lest anyone forgets, pacman won his first fight against jmm. it should'nt have been a draw. one judge made a mistake in scoring the first round (pacman scored 3 ko's). Initially, pacman team wanted to contest the first fight's decision but, as a gesture of good sportsmanship (read between the lines... he's not a sore loser), pacman didn't push through with it. instead, he immediately asked for a rematch. it may be argued that jmm won more rounds. but unless the rules are changed, what matter is the total points after the fight.

as for their second fight, i may belong to the other many people who think pacman won it. hmmm... i guess there are two sides of a coin after all.

saying that manny pacquio's last opponents were not in their top shape is hard to accept. it actually sounds like a lame excuse. after defeating top fighters in different weight divisions in such awe-inspiring fashion, after going up in weight not losing his speed, pac should be considered an all-time great. but the best part is, according to bob arum, he's still getting better =)

Mike Silver paraphrased: "Pacquiao isn't great because I'm too old ... hey you kids! Get out of my yard!"

Ask a guy who has made a reputation dismissing contemporary boxers a question, get a guy dismissing a contemporary boxer.

But the thing is ... we have film footage of the guys Silver mentions, and most of them ain't all that. Trust your eyes, not some close-minded ideologue.

It's obvious that this so-called "expert" Mike Silver has nothing to say good about Manny 'the all time great' Pacquiao because he lost a lot of money betting against the Pacman. Can't accept the fact that an Filipino boxer has beaten Mexicans, Americans (ODLH and Diaz) and British Hatton.

Pacquiao doesn't deserve all the hate...
He's worked too hard to where he is today,
He's really humble and likes to entertain his fans..
Like he says, he's doing his job, and doing it well.

Hatton, a "shot" fighter at the age of 30? This coming from British columnists who picked Hatton to win. You were singing his praises as the best light welterweight in the world, who was undefeated at "10 stones" (140 lbs), who considered the division as "my division," who beat the lights out of one Kostaz Tzyu (how many times I have heard his name as if he were Mike Tyson).

Hey, Brits, why don't you just give credit to Asian fighters?

MANNY IS GREAT.... at beating TIRED, OLD, RETIRING fighters. Nothing is great about what he has allegedly accomplished.

I don't understand why writers always give excuses when it comes to Manny Pacquiao. Instead of trash talking his opponents about being unworthy to fight him, they should instead praise Manny.

When Pacquiao won against ODH, the excuse was that he was a shot fighter. When Manny beat the hell out of Hatton, their excuse is that Hatton did not listen to Floyd Sr. Let's just wait what the excuse is gonna be now if Manny beats Money Mayweather, they'll surely come up with bizarre explanation, prolly blaming his short retirement or even Roger. LOL

People should praise Pacquiao instead of discrediting his opponents.

Maybe Brian's and Mike's "analytical" minds are clouded by Pacquiao being an Asian. Pacquiao has fought with surefire Hall of Famers, and he has made them look shot and ordinary and regular!

He toyed with Barrera during their first fight, and this was before Barrera's classic win over Morales in the last installment of their trilogy. Pacquiao didn't even take the training for the second Barrera fight seriously, and he still made Barrera look silly.

Pacquiao knocked out Morales twice, and in so doing, Morales all of a sudden looked like someone who should retire.

Marquez basically has already lost twice to Pacquiao. Granting that the second fight was really close, the fact of the matter is that the people who mattered (the judges) scored it for Pacquiao. And during their first fight which was called a draw, the judge has already admitted making a scoring error which deprived Pacquiao of a victory. Marquez has kissed the floor 4 times against Pacquiao already. He is boring, doesn't bring anything to the table in terms of revenue, and has already been defeated twice by Pacquiao. It is to Pacquiao's credit and graciousness that Marquez is still being considered a possible opponent in the future.

De la Hoya is old and shot, He has been proclaimed as such for the past how many years. And Hatton is not an elite fighter, something that ardent boxing observers have noted for some time already. But guess what? Not even a fight with Fraud Mayweather sufficiently exposed these facts. It took a beating from Pacquiao to make everyone realize how old, shot and ordinary dela Hoya and Hatton are.

Come to think of it, even Morales and Barrera looked old, shot, ordinary and primed for retirement after their Pacquiao bouts. Hall of Famers both. Making Hall of Famers look nothing but regular fighters is Pacquiao's sure sign of greatness. He is by and far a much greater fighter than his marquee opponents, and he makes the fights look so easy, that Western writers refuse to acknowledge that it was Pacquiao's greatness that did his opponents in; instead, they try to blame the opponent's unsuitability, age or lack of talent for Pacquiao's overwhelming wins.

@Mike Silver - You have the most moronic analysis I have ever read! hahaha! You are downgrading pac-man achievements. I don't think that Dela hoya is shot. He only looked shot because of the amount of punches he'd taken. Look at Hatton they are both in their 30's now you are telling the excuse that he is also in the downhill of his career that is why manny beat him. Good analysis for a moron. Hey, you better go back to your school and demand for a refund they failed to put a brain into you pig! The other writer is saying that he have to beat mayweather first before being considered as great, let me put sense into you. Manny is not even fighting in his own weight, and he is beating them like rag dolls. THE 2 SO CALLED "EXPERTS" HERE ARE SHAM! please stop writing you're just promoting stupidity!

its very clear that mannyis the greatest and those they say "experts" were nothing but critics of pacman, they dont even prove anything to be called expert, they always made prediction but in the end they just get humiliated and eat thier own words, good example of that is robert cassidy . but i smell something in this, is it maybe this is just propaganda and somebody behind it to discredit manny so that his next fight will be more blockbuster and lift boxing to the highest level? of course fan will be more eager to see the fight and proved that manny is the best. But the truth is, there will be no competition, manny is way way more talented than any other fighters in the world. Even mayweather doesnt have any shot to him. i think critics were paid to do this thing to make the fans excite, thats all i can see. but its effective is it?

Hey hey hey. Before cve and frank becomes the "Battle of East and West 2", before some of you may go for an undercard, and before Mike and Brian shag themselves, know that you all are entitled to your own opinion.

But let me state mine in reaction to Frank's, you can't just simply compare boxing of today from yesteryears. There's just no way to compare 30-50's to contemporary. You can't expect boxers today to reach a 250-fight career. Rules have changed so much since then. You can't compare Manny or anyone out there to their predecessors such as Duran, Ray leonard. There's just no way. They faced different opponents in terms of quantity and most of all quality. And there you go again, mentioning about the people who doubts of Manny beating Mosley. Same went for Dela Hoya, but they got their mouth shut. So don't make predictions, ok. While I am always for Manny, I don't entertain the thought predicting who's gonna win. Win or lose, I am for Manny. I hope you are not one of them. But im glad though of the fact that you recognized his place in boxing at this time. He’s better than a lot of fighters out there, and the nice thing is that he is getting better and better. I am also glad that you mentioned Elorde as another filipino great. You sound like you know a lot about the history.

Manny’s ascent from flyweight to a welterweight is notable, and the fact that he still retains power and speed while going up is worthy of credit. But, to ask me if he’s an all-time great or greatest? I won’t assume. Yes he has flattened a number of worthy champions on his way up (though i like it when he beats up loudmouths and arrogants), but you can’t either compare them to past champions.We will have our own equation. Safe to say that he is great at his time. I read Lil Mayweather’s interview today, he said he’s just going to toy with the smaller Pacquiao, whom he doesn’t mind and doesn’t really pose a great threat to him. But why did he choose to fight the equally “small” Marquez? Instead he could have squared with Cotto or Mosley.

It is just a boxing match. A duel of fighters. It is you guys who sort of elevate this to a racial or diplomatic level. If Pacquiao is secured of his place in the world of sports right now, then why can’t you feel the same. And the same thing goes to you Hatton or Dela Hoya or Marquez or Mayweather fans. No more bitterness. As to Manny’s life outside the ring, I can say that he is a champ for all time. And you guys don’t even have to comment on that, just leave it to the TIME magazine people.

It is ironic that the person least interested in this discussion is Pacquiao himself. He never openly aspired for the p4p title. He credits all his victories to God first, and hard work second. While a Hatton or a Mayweather might boast or trash talk about their abilities, Pacquiao is quiet about his achievements. This I think is an aspect of his greatness.

Thanks for the response Jimmy, bit of a relief to get an intelligent response from somebody. I definitely don't expect people today to fight 250 times... I mean if you can make 10 million dollars from 2 fights why the world would you fight anymore than that? I'm just arguing along with the real Mike Silver's stance that because of that, you can't say today's guys in general, not just Pacquiao, are better as BOXERS.
you're absolutely though right today is completely different in from the 30s-50s in terms of landscape and sport culture, maybe we should just measure today's guys by a different standard.
As for the other people saying I'm hating on Manny Pacquiao cause he's asian, or cause he beat down oscar and hatton, or whatever, just go back and re-read my posts.... i'm still confused as to how me stating... more than once, that pacquiao is one of my favorite boxers today puts me under the pacquiao haters column.

why is it so hard for you guyz to accept manny as a great fighter huh? can you give me examples of other boxers with great speed as what manny has? haters! u just cant accept that a certain asian can be a great fighter! you guyz,....you are the loosers!

guys calm down,. i dont think these people "hate" pac for what he did to odlh and ricky, much less for being asian. they just need a couple more good fights from pac to finally believe that hes an all-time great

Let me start off by saying that I'm a white male in his 50's and was brought up on boxing by my father in the early 60's. I'm a fan of true boxing talent. You could be a great puncher or a great boxer or both, I respect them all for their talents. I have seen Maany fight for manny years now and I know when I see a true talent. Why worry about what the so called experts say, when it comes right down to it, the story of Manny's greatness will be told by the true boxing historians of our time like Bert Sugar. There is no doubt that Manny is one the greatest that ever entered the ring. He's not done yet, so he just might end up being the greatest. Let history tell the tru story.

how come everybody is saying "pacman is the best" . all of u manny supporters knew that JUAN MANUEL MARQUEZ beat manny TWICE. the judges did the whole thing wrong. Marquez will beat mayweather by unanimous dicission. i see JUAN MANUEL MARQUEZ beating manny by KO. manny did not get better....hatton SUCKs...manny got hit by hatton and manny almost got knocked out by a sucky fighter (hatton) manny is a coward as you saw him fight hatton. he always went to the ropes and never hit back...JUAN DIAZ hits WAYYYYYYYY harder than manny. MARQUEZ got hit by all of those powerfull punches that DIAZ threw and marquez didnt fall. for those of u who say manny improved he didnt. I'd say JUAN MANUEL "DYNAMITA" MARQUEZ improved much more. with his body punches, uppercuts, amazing chin, i see him the #1 p4p KING.

I don't think the third guy deserves to be called a "boxing expert". He just sounds like another boxing pundit who is so stuck in the past that he doesn't know what's right under his nose. I mean calling Hatton an "ordinary club fighter" is just moronic. Seriously. It's pretty disrespectful as well. Is Hatton great? No. I always thought he was overrated. But he did beat some very good fighters. Kostya Tszu was a killer. Period. And Hatton made him quit on his stool. And there are other top fighters Hatton beat. He doesn't have a "glass jaw" either. Credit where credit is due, pal. Manny punches hard. Lights out hard. And any so called boxing expert knows that the punches that do the most damages are the ones a guy doesn't see coming. And Manny caught the Hitman as flush as could be, right on the chin. He never saw the punch. It was pure sweet science. Anyway, I also don't agree that Manny hasn't fought anyone good enough to secure his legacy. Are you kidding??? Wilfred Benitez was a great fighter. Beating him was one of Ray Leonard's defining moments. But Marco Antonio Barrea and Erik Morrales are both hall of fame caliber fighters, both comparable to Benetiz, and both guys Manny beat. And if you look at Manny's resume there are victories over a lot of outstanding fighters. Yeah, De La Hoya was dehydrated and inactive, but Manny still made him quit. And that's something a lot of great fighters never did. Is Manny great? Yes. And it's a stupid question to begin with. He's a hall of famer for sure if he quit tomorrow. The only question will be how high on the list people will put him. Will he displace guys like Henry Armstrong, Ray Robinson, Roberto Duran? Probably not. But is he already among the 50 greatest fighters ever? Arguably yes. And if he ever does fight Mayweather and wins, theres no telling how high up that subjective list he could go.

boxing was fading out a little bit untill manny pacquaio came along ang started beating all these great fighter,and made a name for himself.he his by far the most exiting fighter out there.he had me in hello when his fighting in the ring and beating on these guys.im a big fan of manny,although im also a hugh fan of ufc,but when many came along, i cant wait to see him fight again.....i hope he kicks may weathers ass...to retirement also,like most of the fighters that he fought..

ok..for saying hatton is a club fighter is dumb.
he has beaten some great people. as for the remark of a walk forward and one dimensional fighter, dont you think its a good idea to do what you must to win?

as for the people saying he hasnt beaten anyone...here are some people he has beaten

Freddie Pendelton (big name in the 90's)
Joe Hutchinson (who went the distance with Gatti, Hatton got him in 4 rounds)

Vince Phillips (only other man to beat kostya tszyu WHO WAS IN HIS PRIME AT THE TIME)

Ben Tackie (this man gives everyone trouble, but hatton beat him convincingly)

Mike Stewart (only man to ever knock stewart out in his career of over 53 fights, was hatton)

Ray Olivera (this is just obvious)

Kostya Tszyu (everyone says kostya was old and washed up, but if you saw the fight you would know that was bollocks)

Carlos Maussa (the man that gives everyone trouble)

Luis Collazo (not to mention a shorter training period comming up to this fight, luis just had a major controversial loss in which everyone believes he beat ANDRE BERTO..and hatton beat collazo)

Juan Urango (tough man who has 21 wins and 17 knockouts, only one loss to hatton)

Jose Luis Castillo (everyone says castillo was washed up, but if you saw the fight, he was fighting back very well, but hatton was just supirior)

Juan Lazcano (a man who has beaten some good fighters like john john molina, jesse james leija, and ben tackie)

Paulie Malignaggi (maybe not the hardest hitter, but has given
every boxer he has faced a hard time, and hatton wiped the floor with malignaggi. Malignaggi claims he was hurt more in the cotto fight, but that was BS as they would have thrown the towel in if that was the case, but they threw the towel in with hattons case.)

I believe hatton is an all time great, and so what if he lost to pacquiao. Perhaps it is hattons time. Just because he lost to floyd and pacquiao doesnt make him a bad fighter or boxer. They say people that have the style of hatton dont last that long, and frazier only had 32 wins anyhow, and 4 losses, so to call hatton a bum cause he lost twice to the top p4p is just ridiculous.

I think it's best if this two so called writers will try to challenge Pacquiao in the ring.
How many bucks have you lost betting against Paman? And that's the reason why you always degrade the real man.

Juan Manuel Marquez will get beaten by Mayweather because he do not know how to box his legs are too skinny cant even stand when he faced Manny. He will get knocked down after 2 rounds.

Anyone who thinks PBF is 100% is not, well a real fight observer. One would look at history and see if ever anyboxer has come out of a long, long period of inactivity and come back the very same boxer. Let's look at history,
Muhammad Ali upon returning to the ring after his exile, is visibly slower and lacks the same quick reflexes and repeatedly gets caught by counter hooks by both Jerry Quarry and later Smokin' Joe Frazier and Ken Norton.
Sugar Ray Leonard, coming back from a long layoff, gets floored by a flush haymaker from Kevin Howard in the 4th. He wisely put on his track shoes for his fight with the Marvelous One and goes the dancin' route and sticks with the choreography and only exchanges with every last dying half minute of each round. It suited him well because if he did get caught flush on the chin by MH he would have seen chirpin' birds like the original HitMan.
Floyd Mayweather better put on those dancing moves he learned from the popular dance show, because Juan M Marquez can take a punch and carry the fight to him. The guy's no slouch and he will be in for a surprise for makin' an ill advised return. Like other boxers disillusioned that they can just turn on the switch and be the same person after a layoff, he will find his punches will have little snap and his opponent just getting thru to his defenses.
I see a result similar to Ali-Frazier 1 or Hector Camacho-Julio Cesar Chavez where the aggressor will just go past the boxers jab and lay on some a$$ whuppin like he never had, before he was in retirement. It is not easy thing to get back in shape and have the same quick reflexes and abilities he had as P4P king. There would be a drop-off somewhere. This will be a reality check for PBF, a hard reality check. Then we will see a trilogy in the making between Pacquiao and JMM. They are like the perfect match. In the Philippines, they have the term 'contrapelo'. The yin to the other's yang. The perfect complement for each other's style and they just nullify each other out and no clear outcome. JMM never been KO'd and he has
always risen up tothe occasion. Like the Ali-Frazier matchups, they are meant to be tussling until one clearly comes out definitively and unequivocably on top of the other.

If you don't like something, you will dislike it more if that something shines. It's human nature. All who say Pacquiao is so-so, especially the guy who said he would not rate Pacquiao in his list of top 20 or 30, are all simply cutting pacquiao down. I saw Marquez two fights with pacquiao, I thought the judges were right. Marquez came back strong despite being knocked down several times. I agree with the one who said now pacauiao would annihilate marquez because Pacquiao is now punching with his right as well, Both hands are explosive. He never used his right like that in his fights with Morales nor with Marquez. Marquez koed Dias, but he didn;t look good at all the first 7 rounds. See for yourself on YouTube. Now if Diaz had Pacquiao's power, marquez would have been KO'ed in the first or 2nd round. In the 8th round, Marquez threw one punch, a lucky shot, that turned things around. Diaz could not recover and so was KOed in the next round.

As for mayweather, he too was like Marquez in his fight with Hatton. Hatton was all over him. Hatton was throwing bombs. Mayweather almost got knocked down several times. Then Mayweather threw that punch to the ribs! Up to then his punches were just annoying pecks but were scoring points for him- until that one punch to Hatton's rib cage late in the fight. Somebody mentioned that hatton's chin was already shot because he was KO'd previously by Mayweather. I have to tell that person that the ribs and the chin are not the same.

Someone else said that Pacquiao doesn't have a one punch KO power. Ha! Tell that to Hatton. Dela Hoya also told Hatton pacquiao doesn't punch that hard. I'm sure Hatton remembers what he said.

Currently, I don' t think anybody in the welterweight division can beat Pacquiao, not even cotto or mosely. Pacquiao's too fast and quick, and as we have seen, he can punch too.

In conclusion, all you Pacquiao's haters- either get real or continue to turn greener with envy and hate and go to hell. . . .

mayweather faced hatton at welterweight, which is mayweather's natural division. hatton had to move up for that match. and yet, it took mayweather several rounds before knocking out hatton. he even said that hatton is the toughest fighter he has ever fought.

and yet, when hatton met pacquiao at jr. welterweight (which is hatton's natural division), hatton got annihilated, destroyed, embarassed, massacred, killed in all but two rounds.

marquez? he's a boring fighter not worthy of the mexican style of warrior and aggressive fighting. some stupid f@rt here said that juan diaz punches way heavier than pacquiao. funny, but those pacquiao punches made marquez fall down four times. you have to give it to him though...he still had the gall to whine and say he won those two fights. he was lucky a judge had made an error in scoring the first fight, which enabled him to escape with a draw.

*Brian Doogan*, "Hatton was as good as shot..."
Please none of this, it were writers like you who said Hatton never looked better. I guess I was wrong about no one having excuses if Ricky lost, guess you can't win em all...

What's next? Mayweather lost due to prolonged inactivity? And if Manny loses... Well I guess some people can't wait to say, "I told you so, he ain't so great."

Everyone laugh at the first post, for clearly the person is lacking of an intelligent opinion. It's like he's been living under a rock, or more like, his head is in his ass. I'm not even going to bother to argue, for such a foolish remark can only beg for recognition. Improvement on Manny's part, open your friggen eyes. Top 30 huh, who's top on your list, Rocky? Apollo? Michael Buffer? Yes you are the man, and that's all you will ever be... No hard feelings, Peace xP

Well Tim, if Manny loses, at least he's not a loudmouth arrogant such as Mayweather who will eat up his words if ever he gets beaten. Manny maintains his humility and I particularly admire him when he said in 24/7 that win or lose, in his religiosity, he's gonna accept it. Isn't that inspiring?

I thought of withdrawing from posting here until I read a comment about an ill-assumed Marquez win over Pacquiao in their second fight. This bitterness is just sickening. It’s a losers griping, a tantrum. Have you witnessed what Pacquiao did to David Diaz? While I won’t fail to credit JMM for his awesome victory, have you ever considered that Juan Diaz could very well end up at the same fate as David Diaz, bloodied and sprawling at the canvas at the hands of Manny? Or no, you’re just too much of a JMM fan? Anyway, going back to Marquez-Pacquiao, have you actually ever seen the post-fight stats from Compubox? COMPUBOX, not some hearsay you guys thrive so much on, or from some boxer-slash-analyst’s opinion, or from Marquez himself. Here is the link and to those who won’t bother to check this, I will post it anyhow. http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/view.php?pg=compubox-juan-manuel-marquez-manny-pacquiao.

Let’s go again to the numbers shall we? This is a round per round account of their 12-rounder in terms of the number of punches landed.

Pacquiao Marquez
Round1 12 6
Round2 9 18
Round3 13 13
Round4 19 14
Round5 10 12
Round6 16 15
Round7 12 15
Round8 5 21
Round9 13 12
Round10 17 15
Round11 16 12
Round12 15 19

Based on these accurate and accepted results, let us do the 10-points system and just allow the numbers do the talking.

Pacquiao Marquez
Round1 10 9
Round2 9 10
Round3 9 8
Round4 10 9
Round5 9 10
Round6 10 9
Round7 9 10
Round8 9 10
Round9 10 9
Round10 10 9
Round11 10 9
Round12 9 10

Total 114 112

This is such a no-brainer and whoever has got the fundamentals of arithmetic can do this. While you may argue that although Pacquiao had thrown more punches it is Marquez who landed more. About 15 more than Manny’s. If only the entire match is composed of a single round, then he could have won in total points, but it’s not. Those extra hard punches (not jabs) were not even enough to deck Pacquiao. By looking at it, it seems that Marquez’s punches aren’t that well spread. There’s a concentration on rounds 2 and 8. If only those were well spread, then he could have received the nod. That silly one judge who scored for Marquez should actually have his eyes checked. But that’s how he saw it, end of the story. I scored round three 9-8 in favour of Pacquiao because your hombre Marquez got floored in it. A 9 for Manny because he didn’t clearly win that round in terms of the number of punches landed, it was equal. But still, summing it all up, it is a 2-point lead, not a hairline margin. 2 points meaning he won two more rounds in a sense.

I won’t even argue about the first fight. It is very clear that Manny took it. That 10-7 points given by one of the judges, when it should be 10-6 is just laughable and outright stupidity. Anyway, he admitted it in the end.

Like I said in my first post, it is actually Manny who is most eager to settle the score once and for all although there seems to be no score to be settled in the first place. He clearly won both fights, and to me, saying that Juan Manuel is robbed of a victory is just pure bitterness. It’s done, over, get a grip. At any rate, I still believe that they will complete their trilogy, and that is something to look forward to. Maybe it will be as big as Pacquiao-Mayweather, who knows. I commend Marquez though for being a slick and moving target, for coming up after being sent to the canvas several times, for giving Manny a hard time inside the ring. Those are the fights we look for and not the 2-rounders like last May 2. He in his early career had always been outshined by Barrera and Morales. But those fights with Pacquiao proved to be that he is more worthy as an opponent, worthy as the numero dos in pound for pound ranking.

The match between Marquez and Mayweather in July to me looks nothing but an eliminator. The winner goes on to challenge the true numero uno, the king, the pound for pound champ, Pacquiao. The winner gets the privilege, or should I say the horrible task of squaring with him.

Another thing, it seems that it is a widely accepted fact that Muhammad Ali is the “greatest” of all time. However, looking at the list of the great knockout artists, his name is nowhere to be found. Not even in the top 50, I think. I could be wrong, but for me tagging someone great or greatest should encompass all the aspects of boxing. That for me is someone who is smart, can utilise the ring area to his advantage, has speed, has great footwork and has punching power. Could it be that we are bombarded by illusions of promotional antics? Of the hundreds and thousands of boxers in the history, someone can be said to emerge as the mightiest. But is there any real means of comparison or measurement for this? Is Pacquiao anywhere near it? I think it is still a long way to go (which actually translates to more and more exciting Pacquiao fights in the future for us to see). I may be wrong on Ali. But let me hear your comments on this.

To end this, let me say “Mabuhay ka Manny!”

Foremost Juan's performance in his upcoming fight will be an eye opener when he faces arguably his "hardest" opponent yet, to draw points for an argument on a third and hopefully decisive encounter with Pacquiao. Some may also forget that the Manny of today is far from the Manny of old. Brawler turned boxer, commentators have put it. We'll just have to wait and see...

i am the most desperate boxer in the world and i cry out loud coz manny KO me always LOL!!!

I had already said my piece about Pacman's incredible talent
as a boxer and a hard puncher compared to decorative punches
made either by Ali or Sugar Ray Leonard ( remember his fight with
Hagler?). Remember also Ali's dancing if not running away from the fighter
most of the time against Foreman or Frazier? I can say with great
mathematical accuracy that any body belonging to the 125 lbs to 147 lbs
weight boxing champions TODAY, Pacman can beat all of them
via early rounds knock-out. The only famous men in boxing that
Pacman can never beat are the biased or racist journalist (except
in the Philippines where all journalists believe that Pacman can beat
even Ali if only he is at least 6 foot in height and 180 lbs in weight.
Talking about Pacman's punch? Well, take a look at these data, Mayweather
took him 10 full rounds to knock-out HAtton. Pacman, started manhandling
Hatton on the first round? Now, if these stupid idiot journalists are
ignorant about the speed-times-mass-equals-momentum principle
then definitely these journalist are nothing but biased,math-imbeciles
racist and cross-eyed viewers whose license for journalism must
be withdrawn immediately. These are the real people who can deliver
an image-knock out to Pacman, but inside the ring, please be ready
with your emergency ambulance ala Hatton incidence repeats itself.
For Mayweather, he will be TKO's within 5 rounds. He will climb back
to the ring not for fame but for fortune that he can get by being knock
out by Pacman.

Pacman's incredible talent as a boxer and a hard puncher compared to decorative punches
made either by Ali or Sugar Ray Leonard ( remember his fight with
Hagler?) is unquestionable. Remember also Ali's dancing if not running away from the fighter
most of the time against Foreman or Frazier? I can say with great
mathematical accuracy that any body belonging to the 125 lbs to 147 lbs
weight boxing champions TODAY, Pacman can beat all of them
via early rounds knock-out. The only famous men in boxing that
Pacman can never beat are the biased or racist journalist (except
in the Philippines where all journalists believe that Pacman can beat
even Ali if only he is at least 6 foot in height and 180 lbs in weight.
Talking about Pacman's punch? Well, take a look at these data, Mayweather
took him 10 full rounds to knock-out HAtton. Pacman, started manhandling
Hatton on the first round? Now, if these stupid idiot journalists are
ignorant about the speed-times-mass-equals-momentum principle
then definitely these journalist are nothing but biased,math-imbeciles
racist and cross-eyed viewers whose license for journalism must
be withdrawn immediately. These are the real people who can deliver
an image-knock out to Pacman, but inside the ring, please be ready
with your emergency ambulance ala Hatton incidence repeats itself.
For Mayweather, he will be TKO's within 5 rounds. He will climb back
to the ring not for fame but for fortune that he can get by being knock
out by Pacman.

If Manny was an American or a westerner the question of whether he should be considered an all-time great would have long been settled.
"Old", "Drained", No longer in his prime", "Not really great", Washed up", "Shot". Suddenly those he utterly demolished were not so great. It's a pathetic conspiracy.
"It's a different era", "It's not 1954", "Can't compare with guys who have 200 to 300 fights". Let Congress shut down the sport of Boxing then! Where's my time machine!?

Just accept it! A great BIG small man from the far corners of Asia has entered the ring!

An all-time great is good enough for me.

Perfect analogy Jimmy. There really is no point in engaging a fight with fans like some people. It's a non-winnable war.

what do these people say about Manny beating washed-up fighters? Boxers have months and months to prepare for a fight, to get rid of all EXCUSES.

Oh my, and if you think Morales, Barrera, De la Hoya and Marquez have been through wars, then what is Pacquiao? Your saying Pacquiao hasnt gone through any wars? Pacquiao has fought 54 fights and thats not battle-tested? Give me a break.

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