Talalay: Marlins Stadium Update No. 4,306
To all those assuming that UM’s announcement it will move to Dolphin Stadium next year will mean a quick and painless Marlins ballpark financing deal, I say:
Calm down. Take a deep breath.
I’m not about to suggest that a retractable-roof ballpark won’t be built at the site of the Orange Bowl in Little Havana. All I’m saying is don’t plan the parade on Calle Ocho just yet. Don’t assume, despite what the politicians say, that the $490 million financing deal debated earlier this year only to stall when the state Senate adjourned without considering a $60 million sales tax rebate, can just be moved to the OB site.
Miami Mayor Manny Diaz, Miami City Manager Pete Hernandez, Miami-Dade County Mayor Carlos Alvarez, and county commission chairman Bruno Barreiro all spoke this week of their optimism for a new ballpark. Barreiro said dollars are already attached to the project. Diaz and Hernandez agreed.
“I believe we had the financing in place, even six to eight months ago,” Hernandez said. “The only item missing was what we were looking for from the state. At this point, I don’t think it’s insurmountable. We have the funding in the place.”
Added Diaz, “The meat of whatever agreement is there, the adjustment is the site. We’re really modifying the agreement. I’m hoping we can move with all deliberate speed to get a deal done as soon as possible.”
If it were that simple, the deal could have been negotiated while UM was mulling its decision to move.
Consider: It’s not clear a stadium at the OB will cost $490 million – in part because the longer the delay, the more the price goes up. There’s the cost of demolition, the design of a ballpark on the OB site. UM's move frees up $50 million that Miami-Dade voters approved in 2004 as part of a $2.9 billion general obligation bond for parks and recreation facilities. But those dollars were for an OB renovation. It is possible the money could be moved, but according to the county attorney’s office, only if a public hearing on the switch is held.
There’s also the thorny question of whether the Marlins and Major League Baseball, who would prefer a spot downtown, will accept the OB location. They may have to, but it is unlikely they will do so without trying to renegotiate the Marlins’ contribution to the deal. They are concerned a ballpark at the OB won’t be as successful as one downtown, which would be easier to reach, closer to major roadways and public transportation.
The Marlins say time is running short, with their lease at Dolphin Stadium set to expire in 2010. UM’s lease with Dolphin Stadium requires the infield dirt be removed by 2011, but stadium officials say they are exploring options for moving and replacing the dirt, should the Marlins want or need to stay beyond 2010. The Marlins don’t want to stay, not just because of the dirt issue, but because they want to control their own revenue.
A ballpark may eventually be built at the site of the OB. Just don’t expect a financing plan as soon as tomorrow.
Comments
First of all the Dolphins do play in Miami. They play in Miami Gardens which is in Miami-Dade county. Secondly people who live in Miami will not drive to Broward or Palm Beach Counties to see a game. The bottom line here is that the population of Miami-Dade is nearly twice of that of Broward counties and therefore deserves its own babesball team.
Posted by: Juan Rodriguez | September 6, 2007 3:42 AM
For those of you who say the QB site is no good, it's not that far from the downtown location any way just a few more blocks down the road maybe a mile or so wahoo.. As for the fans from Broward where were you when the Marlins as the city of Miami for funds to start the team in the first place, who needs you or wants you anyway. The Miami Marlins will just be fine thank you for many decades to come. I don't know if you guys have been paying attention but Miami has become a world class City. Thankyou.
Posted by: Fernando Peraza | August 29, 2007 2:19 PM
Here's how Miami and the Marlins REALLY should rectify past wrongs: Either build the stadium at the downtown site or forget Miami all together and come to Broward/Palm Beach. I really hate just about everything Bud Selig has done, however he seems set on keeping the Marlins in South Florida. Key Words: SOUTH FLORIDA!! That does not mean Miami. Ft. Lauderdale and West Palm are here too. Just because every other Tv show or movie is in Miami doesn't mean the Fish have to be. The Dolphins don't even play in Miami. Why? Because Joe Robbie knew that people live north of South Beach in this area. I would have loved to seen the stadium get built next to Dolphin Stadium, near the Office Depot Center at Sawgrass, 441 and Sunrise(near the Swap Shop), Broward and 1-95, Pompano Park and the slew of other convenient locations that are no longer available.
The Orange Bowl, number 1, is pretty much as inconvenient as you can get and number 2, is a historic landmark that should always be there.
That being said, I want to be able to take my kids to a Marlins game someday, and I don't want some damned politicians taking that away from me! If the situation is as desperate as it is beginning to seem, than I hope they do just get it over with and build it at the OB.
And as for there being no fan base, get your facts right. The Marlins have great TV ratings, and when the team is contending, 30-40,000 people are at that stadium, when they aren't, there are about 10,000. That's the same with any pro Baseball/Basketball/Hockey team. Just ask the Atlanta Hawks or the Milwaukee Brewers. And though we have been put through 2 firesales, this team know how to get value in exchange for high salaries, and we're on a every 5 year pace(Champs in '08 baby!) of winning. Meanwhile, the Cubs and the Red Sox fill there stadiums every year and they've netted a combined 2 World Championships in the last CENTURY. We've got two in 15 years. South Florida will never be a die-hard baseball town like New York or Chicago, but a new stadium will definitely put more people in the seats.
Posted by: Fish | August 29, 2007 1:06 PM
You know, I agree that it would be nice to have a new baseball stadium downtown by the waterfront, but I think the OB site would also work, if there were appropriate development around it. One blogger wrote that people would go for the shopping and restaurants, then stay for the game. Maybe that happens sometimes, but I think it is more likely that people want good restaurants and shopping in the area as PART OF THE DECISION to go to the game. Open a CONINE'S, SHULA'S, and some establishments run by other local sports heroes and/or baseball greats. Begin to restore a look and feel of a "little Havana" in the surrounding community. Heck, call the whole development ORANGE BOWL MEMORIAL PARK, and include a museum to commemorate all the historic moments at the site. Sprinkle in some family-oriented amusements and I think you have a formula for success. In other words, make the Marlins games a part of something larger and more universally appealing.
Posted by: Keith | August 29, 2007 10:39 AM
If the City of Miami can put all of their petty politics aside and put together a deal to build a stadium for the Marlins,the Marlins will fail there after a few years. If the fan base was interested in supporting the Marlins, they would not be last in MLB in attendence. Air conditioning or not, S. Fl. will not support baseball except on the rare occasion that the team is a champion. The City of Miami purposly dragged their feet on repairing the OB so that it would not have a tenant, thus could be torn down.
Posted by: Andy M | August 29, 2007 7:45 AM
The Marlins are not going anywhere. You might as well accept this. They are staying here.
I lived in Houston for 9 years during the Oilers era, and the politicans there messed that up...They dared Bud Adams to leave. Once he flew the coop and took his Oliers to Tennessee, the whole town was bending over backwards and genuflecting so that another franchise would come to town. In the end, they ended up paying for a stadium that cost twice as much as what Bud Adams was asking for and the team they inherited (the lowly Texans) are mediocre at best.
Those of you who love sports cannot be against any type of scenario that keeps a sports franchise in our city.
And for those of you who rant and bellyache about the OB area being a less than ideal location...keep in mind that the Yankees play in the Bronx. I have been there during a game and i can think of fewer places on earth west of Bghdad that are less safe. So grow up, shut up...and let's play ball!
Posted by: Carlos | August 28, 2007 4:56 PM
It would be unfortunate for you guys in the Miami area to lose the Marlins. However, living in San Antonio, we are starving for another professional sports team. Be it the MLB or the NFL, we are ready for either. It sounds like Miami is preparing themselves for the Marlins to leave. San Antonio is only hoping if they do choose to leave, that they choose to make San Antonio their new home.
Ready to support any new professional sports team in San Antonio.
David
San Antonio, TX.
Posted by: David | August 28, 2007 3:49 PM
Building the new baseball park on the Orange Bowl site means that the Marlins will always be last in the National League in attendance.......
Peter,playing in So. Fla. means the Marlins will always be last in attendance. Im sure the Mets fans living here would love a new stadium,theyre the only ones that fill the one we have now.The Marlins dont need a new stadium and if they feel Dolphin Stadium isnt enough,let them leave.
Posted by: PJK | August 28, 2007 7:46 AM
I think the Marlins should move to Baghdad stadium.
Posted by: dennis | August 28, 2007 1:06 AM
As much as this season ticket holder and lifetime Dade County resident wants a stadium a for my beloved team, the OB site is a dude. The area is not what it used to be as I was growing up. There should be stories on the demographic make up of the immediate area. There is a large amount of Central and South Americans in neighborhoods where Cuban exiles started families. These new residents favor soccer, not baseball. So having a stadium here would count on fans from outside the area to fight traffic to see a ballgame. With a downtown facility you have the fans already there in the form of employees from business and firms downtown. Then you add those that come from other parts of Miami, Miami Beach, and Broward. That is my take on the matter. It is not rocket science people!
Posted by: Ozzy | August 27, 2007 10:41 PM
As for the first comment, learn how to write in English , i couldn't understand what the hell your saying. As for the stadium and that 1 billion dollar price tag, you must have peaked in elementary school because that number is either written out of anger or just plain stupidity. The stadium will not cost more than $500- $530 mill. Build proper housing? Uh, do you work at a McDolnalds? The Miami real estate market is one of the worst in the nation and will continue to be until the housing inventory in south Florida reduces significantly. Its the over development in our region that is contributing to this credit crunch were experiencing on the national level. I am upset because i am a Marlins fan. If the vote comes down to you idiots to decide on applying that parks and development fund then it will fail. It will fail because of your lack of understanding reading, writing, Economy, Real Estate and overall having common sense.
Posted by: Christian | August 27, 2007 5:55 PM
Why bother?????
1.The Marlin ownership has alienated the fan base a long time ago, it's not coming back,just take this story for exsample.
2.The state deserves to loose any tax revenue that the Marlin team would bring to the state, since they refused to any kind of rebate to help them stay. Let them add that up the what ifs when they are gone.
3.Any site that has been discussed other than water front is a looooooser site.
4.This story is soooooooo olddddddd that I want it to go away now even more than I want the Marlins to stay.
5.GOODBYE
Posted by: Just get it over with | August 27, 2007 2:09 PM
i bet once the stadium is completed, the marlins will be up for sale with loria pocketing a nice chunk of change with his additional revenues he will be claiming.
Posted by: gregory koppel | August 27, 2007 1:01 PM
If you build it they wont come!
Posted by: Please! | August 27, 2007 12:24 PM
The cost of a retractable domed stadium at the Orange Bowl site will be closer to $1 Billion dollars than the $490 million Pedro "Pete" Hernandez and Mayor Manny Diaz are promoting. Given the cost of the Miami Performing Arts Center (over $500 million) the $1 Billion number could be conservative. Chase Park in Phoenix cost well over $400 million and that stadium was built over 10 years ago in a city where construction is less than Miami.
It's also time to realize that the Orange Bowl site is not a good location to play 81 games a year. That location is telling the 3 million people who live in Palm Beach and Broward counties please don't come to our weekday games.
Posted by: Art | August 27, 2007 10:21 AM
The OB should be torn down and decent housing built on its site, period.
Posted by: James Cohen | August 25, 2007 9:17 PM
I'm in my 60's...WILL the Marlins ever have a new stadium in my lifetime??
Posted by: FRED | August 25, 2007 10:00 AM
Frankly, a Marlins stadium at the current OB site would be a disaster.
There's nothing attractive or convenient about the OB site...people went to game there because of the stadium's history and the Canes' success. Put in a brand new stadium for a less-beloved team, and you've got a white elephant.
The Marlins' fan base is a work in progress, so the team really needs to be downtown, or somewhere else attractive for the casual fan. You know: come for the shopping and restaurants, stay for the game.
A baseball stadium at the OB site smacks of desperation, and could lead to severe abandonment by all northern Dade and Broward fans.
Miami and the Marlins have a one-time chance to rectify past wrongs and start fresh with an exciting new stadium. Please don't blow it!
Posted by: Go Fish | August 24, 2007 10:02 PM
Building the new baseball park on the Orange Bowl site means that the Marlins will always be last in the National League in attendance even if the new park has 2 roofs on it for extra protection against the rain.
People in Broward and Palm Beach counties complained for years about driving down to the Orange Bowl for Dolphin and Hurricane games and that was for 6-8 games a year NOT 81.
If they go ahead with that site the Marlins should be obligated to pay HALF the construction costs.
Posted by: peter | August 24, 2007 8:31 PM