Without getting into the roots of the NHL-against-the-Islanders conspiracy theory that pervades the atmosphere at Nassau Coliseum, let’s just consider the evidence Islanders general manager Garth Snow offered to the four major New York daily newspapers last night after Brendan Witt’s game-tying goal was waved off by referee Mike Leggo in Buffalo’s 4-2 Game 4 win to take a 3-1 lead in their first-round series.
Combined with Leggo’s explanation of his ruling, the Islanders’ video is a smoking gun if ever there was one.
To recap the explanation in the game story in today’s Newsday, the video shown to reporters was a head-on view of Buffalo goaltender Ryan Miller as the puck hit him. At the time, Miller was on his knees basically sitting behind the goal line already. The puck drops in front of Miller and lands on the goal line – still not a goal.
Islanders defenseman Witt skates in from the right side untouched and reaches for the puck with his stick. At that point, sight of the puck is lost behind a player’s skate, but you see Witt whack at it. Then, the picture opens up enough to see the puck go through Miller’s five-hole behind the goal line. Now, it’s a goal – a loose puck having been sent under Miller by Witt.
No whistle has blown. Then, Miro Satan comes down the middle, falling toward Miller. But in freeze frame, you could see Satan had not crashed into Miller and Witt was standing to the right of the goalie bent at the waist. Neither player was yet touching the Buffalo goaltender.
Leggo told a pool reporter the replay review was initiated in Toronto, but the NHL replay officials left it to him to make the call after looking at video evidence to confirm what he thought he saw. Leggo cited Rule 78.5, which says that, after a goaltender makes a save, he can’t be pushed into the net. The referee said he deemed Miller had made the save and was sitting on the puck. That was mistake No. 1. The puck clearly was loose in front.
Explaining why he needed to look at the replay, Leggo said, “I wanted to make sure that it didn’t get shot in, that I had the right call.”
That was mistake No. 2. Witt shot the puck.
Had Toronto overruled the call on the ice or had Leggo called the play correctly, the game would have been tied 3-3 with 1:42 left in regulation, and who knows what might have happened?
But with the Islanders still desperate to score, the forwards didn’t come back to help out defensemen Tom Poti and Marc-Andre Bergeron, who let Jason Pominville get loose for a shot. Isles goaltender Rick DiPietro had lost his focus at that point, too, possibly because everyone in an Islanders uniform was frantic to send the puck back to the forwards for another assault on Miller. The puck went in to make it a 4-2 final, but if the scored had been tied, both teams most likely would have locked it down and gone to intermission to regroup for overtime.
That doesn’t mean the series would be 2-2 today. It just means the Islanders would have had another chance to avoid the 3-1 deficit they face today. At the least, it would be nice to see the NHL admit its mistake.
Comments (195)
Your right..It was a goal and there's a huge conspiracy against the Islanders....Too bad,so sad.
Boo Hoo!
You know we're going to win that cup, me and the Buffalo Sabres, yeah,yeah,yeah.
We here in Buffalo have not seen this so-called video that supposedly exists regarding the controversal "no goal." Everything we've seen exonerates the official. I'd like to see the proof, otherwise quit whining.
The video was shown on television, if you Tivo, open your eyes and watch it again. You won, congrats but do not play stupid. The NHL did a disservice to everyone by sucking the life out of a very exciting game and a memorable finish. Admit your mistake, otherwise you look like liars who are covering up. Just admit it and let's all move on. Buffalo is a great team, if this GOAL was called correctly, it would have been an exciting finish to say the least and anything could have happened! So livid, so disappointed - feel cheated :-(
I heard that Geroge W. Bush was behind this. Better get Al Sharpton involved quickly.
If I saw the video I'd readily admit the mistake, god knows we've been victims of horrendous calls over the years.But to state I'm a liar or covering it up proves what a jack ass you are. You're right, if the goal counted the game goes to OT and anything can happen. Next you're probably going to tell me that Vanek's goal in game three never went in either and I actually saw the proof in that case.
Jeff,
Just wondering if you have been able to see the replay from in front of the net which in my opinion the goal is pretty clear.....watching the highlights on espn, nhl.com and tsn and they never show that replay...espn and nhl dont even show the incident at all, like it never happened..tsn highlights just show the overhead view which I thought was inconclusive
i agree an explanation that makes would be nice but its too late now...on to game 5...
What's up everybody. Good to read all the comments of the regulars - well stated. And great comments from the newcomer d. islanders. Great stuff.
My 2 cents has to do with what should be the perspective of a Sabres fan. If you're a Sabres fan, you should be outraged. Why? Because you have a great team - speed, skill, strength, goaltending - all the ingredients to win the cup. And you might very well win it. But if my team was sitting as #1 seed and playing the #8 seed, and if I saw just how competitive and close this series has become, I would certainly want to make sure that no one could ever make the claim that my Stanley Cup winning run was tainted. But to any objective observer - yes, that's right, objective - who saw the no-goal call in the Ranger game in March, who saw the no-goal/goal call in game 3, who saw the minor rather than major penalty and game misconduct after Blake was pile-driven from behind into the boeards, who saw the no-goal call last night and witnessed the contradictory and non-sensical statements from the referee and the league in the aftermath... this would be a tainted and suspect victory for the Sabres if they indeed do go on the next round. If the Sabres were MY team, and my team won the cup, I want there to be no doubt about its legitimacy. Well, any chance of that went out the window last night. You can now claim to have been robbed almost as badly as the Islanders. The evidence is clear and it's out there. It can be reasonably argued that your number one seeded team won the cup because thay got a first round by against a number 8 seeded team that gave you all you could handle - and more. And that you needed "breaks" to get past them. Yes, you may have won anyway. But the evidence and doubts will always be there.
So if I'm a Sabres fan this morning I'm pissed off. The league has destined that my stanley cup, if won, will forever be tainted. It's a shame for the Islanders, it's a shame for the Sabres, and it's even more of a shame for the sport of hockey.
I know isles tv has the highlights of the game that shows the angle I was referring to earlier...anyone know if it is possible to post that link to this?
Thank you Garth- us fans need to know your doing what you can.
and 5 on 5- goals being called goals
penalties being called fair
we all know how the series would end...
shame the sabres need the NHL to help them win
Should the Sabres win this series it wouldn't feel tainted to me. I'm sure when the Dallas Stars won the cup over Buffalo in '99 when Brett Hull had his skate illegally in the crease, those fans don't feel tainted. I'm sure when the New England Patriots won their first Super Bowl, when they got that crazy it wasn't a fumble but rather a "tuck" they don't feel tainted. But to the point - All I'm saying is I'd like to see the replay that the Islanders are referring to, that's all. If the official blew it then he blew it - I just want to see it, that's all. As for this series, I give the Islanders a ton of credit - they've played well, I was at game 2. But for the Sabres to win the cup they will need to play better - and I'm sure we won't feel tainted!
Next year the NHL should just go with 7 playoff teams and the #1 seed can get a bye into the second round. It seems that the NHL wants to do whatever it takes to ensure that the #1 seed advances after last year's embarrasment in the Western Conference. The NHL wants to believe that the regular season has meaning, but if the lower seeds continue to beat or even annihilate the higher seeds (ie. Rangers v. Thrashers) it confirms the limited meaning of the regular season. PS The Sabres have never won a cup and will not do so with this lineup. A well designed gameplan by a physical team will take them out easily.
Irate-
What makes you say that? A controversal goal? - Happens all the time. As far as your prediction - You may be right, we shall see.
Islanders TV has a clear video (front angle) of the loose puck sitting there and witt knocking in the puck between miller's pads and into the back of miller's pads before anyone hits miller. While it is tough to see the redline in the video, right before it, isles tv shows the overhead view - you see witt hit the puck, miller go into the net, and the puck come out towards the back of his pads. It is clear that that portion of the pads was in the net when Witt struck the puck - hence goal. If they give Vanek a goal by saying there was no way it couldnt have gone in even though there is no picture of it actually crossing the line, this fits the same description.
Amazing how all of the highlight reels (NHL, ESPN, TSN) are barely showing this. The NHL knows it really screwed this one up.
This sis from the Buffalo News...
Twenty years to the day he scored in the fourth overtime to give the Islanders a victory over the Washington Capitals in the Patrick Division semifinals, Pat LaFontaine returned to Nassau Coliseum — this time as a guest of Sabres owner B. Thomas Golisano.
LaFontaine, who resigned his position in the tumultuous Islanders’ front office before the season, watched Game Four from Golisano’s suite.
I felt betrayed by LaFontaine when he quit. I think I feel worse now. This is pretty insulting.
Even if the goal was allowed, I doubt the Islanders would have won anyway. The way I see it, they are playing a very passive game. Where's the hitting? Why do they just stand there in front of their own net, and not even try to crowd the Sabres forwards?
The third period was pathetic - the Islanders couldn't keep control of the puck. As soon as they had it, there were two Sabres on top of the puck carrier, who immediately went into panic mode and tried to pass it, usually resulting in a turnover.
Even the teams grinders weren't grinding.
agree SD...
this may work...copy and paste into browser..
http://iptv.newyorkislanders.com:8888/IslandersTV_VOD/Islelights_BUFgame4.wmv
Hockey must be a great game to have survived all the jackasses at league headquarters.
Screwed? GMAB. Series is even up all the way around.
Game 2 was the Ronaldo goal non-review and stick-hold/hooking call. +1 Isles.
Game 3 was the Vanek goal overrule (looked a lot like the Cullen goal yesterday, didn't it?) and penalty against Afinogenov (which was an automatic call, arm was in the air for the hook when Poti's stick came up and drew blood). Even if had been two instead of 4, the 5-on-3 still cashed and the additional PP did not. No difference. Still, call it +1 Sabres, with much wailing and gnashing of teeth from Nolan et al.
Game 4 was phantom Vanek penalty leading to Isles goal (+1 Isles), and no goal call upheld on the ice (+1 Sabres). Blake penalty was not a major, Numminen was angling to boards toward Blakes right and Blake veered to block Numminen off and went off balance. 2 minutes is the right call there. Isles cash the PP anyway. Just the same, cue wailing, gnashing of teeth, and vast conspiracy theories from Nolan et al.
So the balance of the series is: Isles got beat in Game 1, and lost Game 4 because they couldn't clear their zone for two-thirds of the game, and because Bergeron showed why he got traded. Chalk one up to reffing for each side in games 2 and 3.
Don't judge the balance of 'breaks' simply by the amount of noise being made by the respective coaches.
Someone above mentioned that Buffalo fans should be PO'd that the series is so close - but in fact, that's the way the whole year has gone for the Sabres. Most of their wins were tight games, many in OT or shootout.
Also, we in Buffalo remember Ted Nolan, and how well he can get a team to play to its maximum potential. We're not surprised nor are we disappointed.
I really like Ted Nolan's style, and if he were not playing the Sabres I'd be rooting for him.
None of us in Buffalo saw the replay you are referring to (the one across from Miller that apparently showed the puck loose). Every replay I saw was inconclusive at best.
Is there an online version of this view so we can see for ourselves?
see link above Mike...
Oh, nevermind, I saw the replay link posted above.
It's tough to tell with this version of the video (which is heavily compressed) but I still don't see *conclusive* evidence here. The puck was loose, but I didn't see it go in. A mass of players blocked the view just after Witt poked at it.
Maybe the high res video shows more? Why didn't the NHL have this view?
To Mr. McBeef:
Ronaldo goal non-review and stick-hold/hooking call? Phantom Vanek penalty leading to Isles goal? You've gotta be kidding, right? We can play that "should've been called" / "bad call" game all day long. That stuff all evens out. It's the video review of goals/non-goals that doesn't even out when the criteria for whether or not an on-ice call is overturned isn't applied consistently.
Chalk game 4 to the Isles not being able to clear their zone for 2/3 of the game? You're groping for a legitimate reason for the victory. You're trying to make yourself feel better about the gift you were given with 1:30 left in the 3rd period. And if you really think the hit on Blake wasn't a "hit from behind" as defined in the rules, you're either sight impaired or you just don't understand the rules of ice hockey. If that had been Briere's head hitting the boads you'd be screaming bloody murder.
The only sound of weeping and teeth knashing is coming from you're weak attempt to somehow justify the ineptitude of the league as it handed you a regulation time victory.
Score more goals and this wouldn't be an issue.
Hey Tom... the fact that your statement can be applied to either of the teams shows that it's meaningless and irrelevant to the issues raised. Nice try.
Jeffrey P. DePasquale, you are a jackass, learn how to read. I said the NHL should admit their mistake, not you. Relax killer, you won.
Listen this arguing can go on for days. The NHL has got serious issues with the league, the replays, the decisions and the officiating all around.
The changes that have been made to this game for the last few year are hurting not helping. The two refs, making it harder for them and the fans. How often do you ever see both the refs raise their hands at the same time? ALMOST NEVER!
How often do you see the call made by the guy by the red line not the one 5 feet from the play? TOO OFTEN!
How is it that a penalty for tapping a guys thigh is two minutes, yet people get boarded and thats two as well. The new rules to stop the clutching and grabbing subtract from the sport.
The battles in front of the net? Ask any old time player what it took to score a goal in the goalies kitchen. IT TOOK A BEATING!
What are the things that attract us the good fans to the sport? OLD TIME HOCKEY!
I sat there last night in the Garden watching the video that lead the Rangers to taking the ice. Things you see in that video. GOALS, BIG GOALS THAT DEFINE THE SEASON, HITS, BIG HITS, GUYS BATTLING AND GUYS LIKE SHANNY DROPPING THE GLOVES WITH BRASHEAR.
The new European look and feel to the NHL hurts! Another thing I don't like about the playoffs this year. I don't know if you guys have seen it in the Islanders series but, the refs in the Rangers series have done all they can to take the fighting out of the playoffs. Anytime there is a guy on the ice with the potential to drop the gloves the linesmen get right by his side at the sound of the whistle and almost escort him off the ice.
Sad times are coming for our sport if they don't stop all the changes and go back to the way things were.
Also to the Buffalo fans.
I am a Rangers fan and call it bias if you want. Buffalo does not get engraved on the cup this year.
No Way!
I am not saying that because the Rangers swept and are moving on. The team is not built for it. There is other teams that will have your number for sure!
I watched all the videos Cincy. Vanek goal, Cullen goal, Witt no-goal. Here's the score.
1. Vanek goal. You can see the puck in, across the line, on the Vs feed.
2. Cullen goal. You can see the puck in, across the line, on the overhead.
3. Witt goal. Even with the ice level, you cannot see the puck in, across the line, until it pops out from under Miller AFTER he's been shoved into the net. You see it loose, you see Satan and Witt swipe, and you see the puck disappear as Miller closes his legs.
Believe it or not, there is a rule that you can't just shoot a puck into a goalie and bullrush him into the net while he's got it covered, or everyone would do it every time.
There is no view that shows a loose puck in the net, over the goal line, before Miller gets shoved in.
That's what you need for it to be a goal and it didn't happen. Period. Case closed.
Now go get your ****in' shinebox.
Homerism is fine. Homerism in defiance of logic and plain facts is, well, what y'all are doing.
DP, congrats no the Rangers. Very impressive series. Good luck round two. I can only hope the Isles pull something out of the air against the Sabres that maybe allows us to meet you guys later on. Great points about old time hockey. You are absolutely right about the two ref system. What I do not understand is why the second ref cannot consult with the ref behind the net and tell him his POV. It was clear on the angle in front of the net that Miller was not pushed into the net until AFTER the puck crossed the goal line. I am probably wrong and do not know if the trailing ref has any say in a situation like that, but I cannot get that out of my mind. That being said we just have to think about game 5 and move on. All you Sabres fans who think they have a clear road to the cup think again. If you think the Isles are going to roll over and give you the series think again. And if you guys think that you will coast through the next rounds (being you get that far) think again. LETS GO ISLANDERS!!
Uhh, Cincy, that statement can't be applied to the Sabres. They obviously scored enough goals to win, so your rebuttal is meaningless.
I guess I'll add my two cents here.
I can really understand the Buffalo fans not wanting to hear the Isles whining about all of the bad calls. As an Islander fan I don't want to take anything away from their victory, any of the three. But also as an Islander fan this SEASON has been tainted from the get go. You can go all the way back to the Avery (as a King) spearing... and just roll it forward. Year after year the Isles are teh most penalized team in the league. I just don't see it.
To me the biggest call of teh year was by Campbell and that ridiculous and precedent setting suspension of Simon. There was something much deeper to that call than the on ice infraction. Hollweg wasn't even hurt.
I won't even use a historical reference... just the one that Nolan used. WHY??? Why aren't these morons held accountable for their actions.
Now we've had three controversial goal calls that have had important roles in our season. ALL THREE WERE RULED AGAINST US. WHY???
Why is there even a Toronto. Does the NFL go to NY to make it's replay decisions? Does teh NBA... major league baseball... THE NHL is a MICKEY MOUSE operation, run by GOOFY!
BETTMAN SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE for making the third sport in north America a non-issue.
He's got to go!
He wants a franchise in an unfilled market he's doing everything he can to get it there... Pittsburg... now the Islanders... WELL FU Gary Bettman.
You'll be going back to your job as the hose cleaner at the zamboni factory before the Isles leave NY.
What has he given the NHL, let's see:
A LOCKOUT
AN NHL where Eastern Fans get to see western Canadian teams once every presidential election cycle. Why don't we just play 82 games against one team...
Oh yeah.. and the Nashville predicates can play the columbus blue bonnets all year... would anybody even know.
Hockey in:
Atlanta... I guess the dismal attendance of the flames didn't prove anything. Southerners love their hockey now...
Carolina...which does excellent TV numbers competing against 200 NCAA basketball teams in a 50 mile radius.
Columbus, Nashville, Tampa, Anaheim, Dallas and Phoenix… why, why, why, why, why, and why?
And then there is TORONTO. Is “TORONTO” even in Toronto, or is it just the transgendered lover of Gary Bettman that answers his phone. Is that his/her first name, or it’s last name… and when it’s refered to as “the league office in ‘Toronto”’ I think we can safely assume that the “league office is what gary calls little gary.
Okay… that was at least 8 cents… but I’m done.
If you get past us, good luck Buffalo fans. You definitely have on helluva team. Sorry you had to be part of the sh!tstorm…
JP: "To me the biggest call of teh year was by Campbell and that ridiculous and precedent setting suspension of Simon."
So let me get this straight: you're defending swinging a stick at a guys' face in retaliation for taking a check? Nice.
Want precedent? Look up Brad May on Steve Heinze.
Joe,
Like I said before I hope they bring it home to the Coliseum so you guys can get past all of this and let the team know how you feel about the season. Just like the Rangers this year after what happened in the first round last year the Islanders will be a stronger team after all of this next year.
Honestly, with being at the Garden I have not seen this goal so I won't comment or pretend. I am talking more about the penalties.
I personally would rather see one ref. Like the old days. No meeting between refs.
Buffalo will meet their match just like the Rangers. But, like they say you got to beat the best to be the best. Nobody gets handed the cup!
Can fault the Sabres or their organization, they played hard and had nothing to do with a bogus none-goal call. Can't fault their fans, who support there team much like we support our Isles. Can't blame the League for the blown call, as it left it up to the ref to make the descision-but we can blame them for not admiting it was a blown call. The fault is squarely on the ref. He chose to basically decide the game. Its disgusting. The league should retrain this useless, stupid, lazy ref or just fire him. But it would never do that, since the league won't admit there was a mistake in the call. That is just sad. No wonder this league has a problem keeping fans into the game. Fix the bad officiating.
I watched the game last night, saw the goal, then the ref wave it off right as he see's the puck behind Miller. It was obvious. Watch the replays on IslandersTv for those that do not believe. Watch where the puck is when the ref waves his hands.
A friend of mine (die-hard Rangers fan) called me this morning, i thought at first to gloat over the rags win over the thrashers. but instead to tell me how sorry it was that the Isles were blantly robbed. he put the game on after the rags won there game, and he was shocked.
Im shocked, and pissed myself.
I am a huge Isles fax since 1981 and I am disgraced at the officiating in this series thus far. We are basically 2 calls away from either being tied 2-2 or maybe even up 3-1 but at least the 2-2 would look a whole lot better. I have to say though, I do not agree with the "league is out to get us theory". I just think you have refs that have made glaring errors and it has cost us big time!!!! My biggest problem with these obvious mistakes is that I wish I could mess up that often in my position and not have it cost me more than a phone call to Toronto to explain the incorrect call I had just made! Absolutely absured!! Bottom line to, if Yashin, Satan, Kozlov, Blake had more than 1 goal between them in this series we are not even talking about these calls. They need more from all of these guys!!!
this pulled from a BUFF newspaper. just more evidence that they know nothing from up there...."Nassau Coliseum erupted when it appeared the Islanders had scored after a long stalemate that lasted nearly two full periods. Former Sabres winger Miroslav Satan plunged head-first into a crease pileup, and defenseman Brendan Witt went feet first to bowl over Sabres goalie Ryan Miller. The puck slid over the line, but referee Mike Leggo waved it off."
Some other interesting info about the non goal last night....
After the puck went in the net, Islanders center Mike Sillinger was told by the referees that the decision of “goal or no goal” would ultimately be made by NHL headquarters in Toronto.
In a phone conversation after the game, Stephen Walkom, the NHL VP and Director of Officiating, told Islanders general manager Garth Snow that the call was made by the referees on the ice
Walkom told Snow the referees disallowed the goal because Islanders defenseman Brendan Witt crashed into Buffalo goaltender Ryan Miller, causing the puck to cross the goal line.
There is at least one clear, definitive replay that shows the puck sitting on the goal line between Miller's legs and then Brendan Witt, uncontested, skating in and slamming the puck into the net. Not a player on either team touches Miller until well after the puck crosses the goal line. Witt never touches Miller at all
WOW WAT A JOKE THE NHL IS...THEY DONT EVEN KNOW HOW TO COVER THERE OWN @$$
My two cents as a Sabres fan-
The Vanek goal was clearly a goal, NHL made the right call.
The Witt no-goal - *looked* like a goal. Looks like it got tapped and went back *just* before Miller got plowed. While there's no view of the puck behind the goal line, it certainly seems likely that's where it ended up. I can understand the official's point of view, but I think it should have been 3-3. Sabres woulda beat the Isles in OT anyway ;-), but I understand the frustration.
Penalties? I think they've been consistently bad. Both teams have gotten away with stuff that should be called. It's not like the Sabres haven't bee on the receiving end. Remember when Chris Neil drilled Drury just 6 weeks ago? I feel for ya that Blake got nailed and a sufficient penalty wasn't called, but that seems to be the M.O. in the playoffs. Let's face it... the NHL gets all shy & timid about calling penalties this time of year... kind of a joke.
I don't think it's a NHL-vs-you thing, as I don't think you guys had been getting jobbed before the Witt no-goal.
Mr. McBeef,
I actuallyhave alot of respect for the Buffalo Organization...the players are a first rate class act...their fans however are starting to sound like Buffalo Bill fans...cry babies and living in denial.
That puck was shot in the net and the puck was 2 feet past the goal line by the time Miller went over the line..in fact Miller was pratically in the net before Witt SHOT, yes shot the puck in....the puck actually hit the back of the net, it wasn't just pushed in.
Homerism is fine...but practice what you preach. When we reach for the shinebox, our fists will be up your f***ing a**.
Look beefy... have you seen it. It warranted a 5-10 game suspension at best. But the media ran away with it. Then campbel made it a MINIMUM... with NO MAXIMUM.
25 games minimum. If the Islanders are in the playoffs it will be the rest of THEIR season.
Is that not subjective.
Three options:
rest of the regular season which was 15 games,
rest of the season(including playoffs),
or a specific number of games.
Show me where anybody else had that kind of language where no injury was done... and after the perp was just BOARDED!
Not to mention, if you look at it, he hits that weasel in the chest and the stick rides up to his chops. If the call was going the other way it might have been 2 mins for slashing.
take the Brashear-Witt incident.
Brashear gets 2 mins.
A few weeks later, I think it was Tootoo (but i may be wrong) gets suspended for a similar infraction.
Double standard?
One thing I also noticed (never mentioned before) is that we have no center ice camera at Nassau Coliesum. In fact the camera work at Islanders games is always horrible - where at MSG you get great camera angles and full puck coverage. In the corners at the the isles games, you can't see the puck at all. The NHL knows this and would rather have any other team continue in the playoffs. Thus, the so called "bad breaks" with the refs. Everyone calls it crying but TOO MANY of these bad calls are more than a matter of bad luck.
Being from Buffalo and a hockey fan all of my life, I am appaled by the behavior of the fans and for that matter the islander coach, Buffalo had a horrible call in the stanley cup playoff years ago, Goal or no goal... show some class, officiating plays a major part in all sports, be happy you even made it to the playoffs, you could be Philly.
I think the Islanders lost because Mike Leggo had some CA stock that went into the tank with Sanjay's and Charlies misdoings!
The article said Garth Snow and his assistant showed a frame-by-frame analysis that clearly showed it in... why not post each frame as an image with a timestamp, instead of as a movie? Wouldn't that clear it all up?
Still wouldn't change the result, but then we could dispense with the argument move on. No?
your calling us and our fans (bills fans and sabres) cry babies? look at all of the islander fans posts here and i believe it becomes pretty clear who's crying here
I am an Islander fan and I am also realistic. Did we as fans really think our team would come out on top of this series? Yes they have played hard but I agree with Sabre Fan Officiating plays a huge roll every team has bad calls, i don't believe its a conspiracy, I think Buffalo is just a much better team, and by the way I was horribly embarassed at the junk throwing at both games, we are better people than that, also at the game the horrible obsenity yelled in the begining of game 3, Lets not give Buffalo a reason to make us bad fans.
People from Buffalo telling Isles fans to show some class? Are you kidding me? Ever been to a Bills game? Not only are they ignorant but they are abusive....
Back to hockey....The Sabres fans at the coliseum last night were disgusting. They simply do not know hockey. They were just there to stir stuff up, and many of them got their clocks cleaned. Not saying it is right, but many deserved it! Oh and by the way EVERY single one of them had a NEW jersey on...Bunch of Johnny come latelys!
With that said Buffalo has a great team. But to say that bad calls have not played a part in this series is ridiculous. The Sabres are a #1 seed and a hell of a team. On top of that they have gotten help! If this happened in Buffalo cars would have been on fire! That is a fact!
I would not stop and take a dump in Buffalo...You can smell that place from Toronto...Instead of Porter Potties at games they should have showers. Did any of you get a glimpse at the dregs of society that showed up to our coliseum last night? Congrats on the win. If you won a bet on it, take the money and buy some soap!
I have to laugh at the Sabres trolls posting here.
These are the same whiny babies who have been crying over Brett Hulls goal for eight years.
I also think it funny that these guys lecturing other fans on "class" are the same group of idiots that chanted TKO when a player was injured on their ass. Not to mention that their newest stunt is that Blake threw himself headfirst into the boards last night and faked his injury.
Gimme a break.
If it takes the best team in Hockey all these BS calls to beat the eighth seed then I suppose they have a lot to be happy about. I don't think Islanders fans should pay these guys any mind.
Their team shouldn't gain and respect or bragging rights off of this series. I think the people across the league kinda see Buffalo's lead in this series as illegitimate.
The Isles should be up 3-1 right now or at least this series be tied.
as a resident of buffalo and studnt of UB I would like to responde to those of you you have to sink to insulting our great city on the internet... get a life.
Now, if I may, to sink to your level. My college is infested, yes infested, the cause? long islanders.
those people must be the cockiest, loudest, and most unenjoyable people i have ever met. long islanders have proved to be the most annoying part of my college expereince. between the nasaly voices that cut through glass, the lemming-like desire to follow eachother's moves in ugly style (where did the ponytail off the side of the head come from, and thier sheer arrogance I can say while you wont stop to take a dump in buffalo, thats fine by me. I love my city and my teams, you guys just love yourselves
Freaking shame. Loggo blew that one big time. But its over and now we have to win to live another day in Buffalo, home of the usless inbreds. (senseless knock at sabres fans...I'm entitled to at least one.) All in all the sabres do not look like a powerhouse. In fact I think if the islanders could land a shot or two on goal, they'd look like the better team in this series. But then again, Im sure the refs/NHL would find a way for the sabres to win anyway...
Tom: Your winning margin came from the ref. Maybe a few extra IQ points will help you to understand that.
Beef: Interesting argument. It's just that you forgot one thing - the facts on Witts goal. You're posting to this blog, so I assume you read Logan's factual account (the article to which your comments are attached). Based on that assumption, you know that their was no "bull rush" of Miller that pushed the puck into the net.
Let's be clear - we both know it's futile to argue calls and non-calls on penalties. As I've already said, those things ultimately even out anyway. But disputed goals are a different story, especially when occuring in the context that Islanders observers have witnessed in the last month. This may shed some light for you...
Early March... Isles scored a goal in the last seconds of the game that was called no-goal on the ice. Video review clearly showed the puck across the goal line - but, in the words of the league, because the only view was from the FRONT, what was seen could've been caused by ab "optical illusion". Hence, the view was not definitive.
Game 3... Vanek scores a goal that is ruled "no-goal" by the on-ice official. Again, a FRONT view appears to show the puck disappear behind the near post, before moving exactly parallel to the goal line, on top of the goal line. This time, the fact that it was a FRONT view is ignored, as is the fact that the puck is never actually seen to be acoss the line. The FRONT view is deemed valid and the no-goal call is overturned.
Game 4... Although you refuse to admit this, there are plenty of both biased AND impartial viewers who have seen the replays of Witt's goal shown to the media by Snow, all of which were played on broadcasts of the game. Again, a FRONT view clearly shows the puck being knocked into the net BEFORE Miller is touched. But this time there's more. A top view shows that Miller is already in the net after making the initial save, and before he's touched. The call this time? You guessed it... no-goal.
To recap... Early March - no-goal call against the Isles; reason=inconclusive because front view. Game 3... goal call against the Isles; reason=conclusive even tho a front view. Game 4... no-goal call against the Isles; reason=contradictory.
If it looks like a duck, and sounds like a duck... it's a smoking gun. This one was a hose job.
All of you whiney asses should just shut up or move to Canada, so you all can go play hockey with each other and take the NHL with you. Hockey sucks and has become such a sissy sport after the strike. It doesn't even deserve to be an 'American' sport!
To all of the bottle/debris throwing morons....You've given our team and community a black eye. As a season ticket holder of over 15 years, I watched a 7 yr old boy donning his Isles jersey get hit in the back of the head with a practically full beer last night....are you kidding me??? throw crap from the higher levels...I'm embarassed beyong belief.
I was born and raised in long island and then went to college and married a man from Buffalo, Where I live now. I am of course torn at this series because I'd like to see either team win. I do however have a comment...Hockey in Buffalo can not be compared to Football, The Buffalo Hockey fans are great awesome people truely a different breed from the Buffalo footbal fans, and as for cars being lit on fire.. won't happen if you remember Sabres lost game 7 of the Eastern finals last year, fans were dissappointed but not destructive, As for Islanders fans great people too, but as I watched the game the other night, I was sadend by the response from you. The garbage and bottle throwing made our great city look shameful. Lets enjoy hockey, Bad calls and all, it's not personal.
I just wanted to agree with pissed off old guy, It's great and exciting to be so passionate about your team but why do it the way you did, those many of you that threw things made this comminity look like scums.
Dear Buffalo fans:
Why can't you terd-herders acknowledge the NHL gift-wrap the game to you last night? Even you 4-time super-bowl losers have to admit the explanation handed down by the NHL has "holes" in it. After last night I understand why hockey has lost soo many fans. I agree with many of you...this series has been called horribly for both squads. Just one bad call after another. It is a shame because the effort is there from both sides. And it is frustrating from a fan perspective because you pay to watch these games and this is the product (refs) we get in return. I used to be stick up for the NHL...not any more.
ok...I love Hockey...I am from Long Island, married a guy from college who is a sabre fan, I live in "sabre land" and I am still true to my team and the friggin islanders have been cheated this time. I am tired of listening to sabres fan complaining about not seeing what they showed on Long Island...its the same video and the NHL needs to admit there mistake. My husband even said at first it looked like a goal....and said, how does it feel to be robbed...I said..hold on and let me go order a Dallas Stars Jersey to wear....This is just bad ref calling in a series in which the nhl wants to just hand the sabres a cup to make up for its mistake years ago
Cincy, thanks for the description. I haven't seen the video clips you speak of. The only one I saw was from the back, which was the Refs view.
I think that the Ref made the right call from his vantage point. If another angle showed otherwise, Toranna should have caught that.
Clearly, the players must have thought it was a goal. They just sank after it was disallowed.
If emotion and heart can carry them this far, it can also sink them.
I think Nolan has to change up the lines to give them a fresh start.
Oh, and Yanks Rule! I assume you are the US equivalent of some idiots up here in Canada. They take cheap shots at the States when the closest they've come to meeting an American is watching TV alone with a remote in one hand and the other hand between their legs.
Kevin T.
To those who are bashing fellow Islander fans:
Give it a break....support the team and it fans. Please dnt be embarassed by our fans...be embarassed by how the game is called. Yes fans threw things on the ice...but did you see that tripping call? I know there are other ways to vent frustrations but people get caught up in the moment. Our fans realize how important these games are. But last nights call was even worse and for the most part our fans keep themselves in check. So to all you bashers-get a life- and learn to stand up for yourself!
Oh and one more thing. Melissa, you can tell your husband that we took notice when "sabre land" played both the Canadian and US anthem in game 1.
I've never seen that before and I don't know why they did it when no Canadian team was playing. But it was pretty damn cool!
Kevin T.
To the Sabre fans calling ted nolan classless. did you hear interview with coach ruff after game 3 where he accused Isles of aiming for Millers head. Sabres scouting report must not be that good. the isles can't even hit the net when shooting let alone aim for a head. As for getting all the breaks and calls your way, good luck when you play the Rags. Colin Cancer and Gary boy won't let their team (the rags) have calls against them. enjoy it while it lasts.
pierre
I am a Buffalo fan (please hear me out before you start sending hate mail).
1) I've looked at all the videos that have been made available to me. My feeling on this call is, well, I really don't know.
From the "mainstream" coverage, it looks like Miller makes the save, and you don't see the puck again until the scrum pushes him into the net.
From the FSNY feed, I see Witt take a poke at the puck, it go between Miller's legs, and then him closing the pads. Whether or not the puck was across the line or not, I really can't see.
Some of you have spoken of "blatantly obvious" proof that the puck was past the goal line - I'm not doubting your judgments, because like I said, I truthfully don't know if this was a goal or not - is it possible to take a screen cap of the point at which the puck is in the net before the scrum pushes it in?
2) At what point did the whistle blow? If the referee loses sight of the puck and blows the whistle, the play ends - regardless or not of the actual whereabouts of the puck. A few times last season (when I still had cable), the Sabres lost a few chances that way - the ref loses sight of the puck, blows the whistle...just as a forward is about to tip the rebound into the net.
Again, I'm not trying to cause an argument or gloat about a victory - the Islanders are playing the Sabres very very tough, and I'll admit that I saw Game 4 as a must-win game in the series. But if somebody could point out the point at which the puck is in the net, please do so.