Just in case you missed the Islanders notebook in Sunday’s Newsday containing Bill Guerin’s comments about the boarding call he received Friday night in Florida, the Islanders captain raised an issue that should be important to all NHL players. Guerin expressed his “regret” for the hit that sent the Panthers’ Bryan Allen into the end boards head-first, resulting in a blow that left him lying on the ice dazed for a minute or so.
In today’s NHL, the call against Guerin was more borderline than blatant. He made contact with Allen at an angle on the upper right arm and shoulder, not the middle of the back. But Guerin was coming from behind, and the momentum generated by both players sent Allen into the boards when he lost his balance. The moment it happened, Guerin was apologetic, bending down to see if he could assist Allen. Although the Panthers’ defenseman wanted to fight the next time he was on the ice and Guerin obliged him, Allen later expressed appreciation for Guerin’s class and the way he apologized during the game.
When a reporter covering the Panthers approached Guerin and offered him a chance to question the call after the game, he was honest. “Nah, you know that was a bad hit,” Guerin said. “Anything from behind nowadays you have to call. I don’t like being in those situations and being the guy hitting someone or even getting hit. It happens too much in our league. So, it was a deserved penalty. It was a bad hit. I can’t do that.”
I mentioned how contrite Guerin was immediately after the hit, and he added, “Like I said, I regret that it even happened. You don’t want to see guys get hurt on stupid hits like that.”
Maybe Guerin is more sensitive to the issue of cheap shots because he’s a star-caliber player who is used to getting run from behind by players with far less talent. Players whose “skill” lies in their ability to deliver those cheap shots probably have a much different view, excusing them as part of the physical fabric of the game.
That argument reminds me of my 10 seasons covering the Jets and the NFL from 1982-91. It bothered me then that Jets wide receiver Al Toon was forced into retirement after suffering too many concussions from hits by defensive backs putting the crown of their helmets into his chin. Technically, they were legal hits if the DB made initial contact with the helmet into the chest, but they became lethal when the tackler was allowed to ride up into the chin to deliver a knockout blow.
In my view, defensive backs can intimidate receivers coming across the middle just fine with the force of the blow they deliver to the receiver’s body. They shouldn’t be allowed to add a head shot.
It’s similar in hockey. The definition of a clean check should not allow any room for a blow from behind that puts an opponents’ head into the glass or the boards. That’s why Guerin didn’t want to quibble about whether he caught Allen from the side or the back. He knew he was coming from behind even if it was at an angle.
Kudos to Bill Guerin for showing respect for another man’s career and for the game.
Comments (35)
I agree. That call against Guerin was borderline at best, but he took his medicine like a man, fought Allen on the next shift, and we can all move on with our lives. I think, however, that until the NHL does away with the instigator rule you will continue to see gutless and dirty hits from behind. I in no means want to romanticize 70's hockey, especially since I wasn't alive in the 70's, but the instigator rule is doing the same thing for hockey what automatic warnings and ejections for the first beanball are doing to baseball. They're taking accountability away from the players and allowing the referees to settle scores. Even if you look at a play like Dale Hunter decking Turgeon....it was a dirty hit, but right afterward Rich Pilon came flying in ready to exact immediate retribution. It leaves things right in the space in which they occur, rather than letting bad feelings fester and running the risk of another Steve Moore incident. I really hope the NHL gets its head on straight about this. The instigator rule will reduce dirty hits because players know the ref can't protect them from answering for their actions.
In other news, sticking to the Capitals theme for 1 more second...I heard rumblings that not only is Milbury a candidate for the GM position, but the coaching job is likely going to none other than Dale Hunter for next season. Could you, as an Isles fan, imagine a team run by Milbury and Hunter? Does that level of hate even exist in everyday society?
Capitals with Milbury & Hunter, Kozlov & Poti ... it will be fun to watch them. It's a shame they didn't sign Yash to play with Ovechkin ... this would guarantee a sell out NVMC :)))
I think I'd have to record myself booing because I'd definitely go hoarse before the first period ended.
I was really happy to see how Guerin acted after that hit- which WAS borderline, but I understand why it was called. Guerin is a class act. It was nice seeing him throw a few aas well! :)
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Posted by Saint Nick | December 10, 2007 13:38 I think I'd have to record myself booing because I'd definitely go hoarse before the first period ended.
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LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nice little write up about the islanders and there fathers trip...nice to see ESPN is finally writing something nice about the islanders
heres the link...
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?columnist=burnside_scott&id=3148372
That was a pretty nice article from Burnside. I am pleasantly surprised at Steve Tambellini going to watch his son even though he probably has various Canuck duties. I think thats pretty classy. This is a great way to bring the team closer together, now if the fathers can get their sons going!
Milbury as the caps GM sounds great...maybe he can give us Ovy and Semin for Bates and Hilbert. It would be the right thing to do since what he has done to us....
Did anyone watch the Rangers vs Devils yesterday? Well late in the 3rd, hollweg rammed Asham from behind. Clear as day penalty. Asham went to Hollweg and pushed him. Asham looked like he was going to kill him but instead held back and still got the penalty. How more times is Hollweg going to hit someone from behind and get away with it. It is not just him but he does it at least once a game. That was a bad call on the refs part. The penalty did not affect the outcome of the game. i seriously thought Asham was going to hit him with his stick.
It's a case-by-case thing, imo. On the one hand, the hitting from behind at full force has to stop. It's OK to angle a guy in. That's what Martinek does all the time when a guy has his back to him. You can squeeze a guy into the boards if his back is to you when he tries to move to one side or the other. It's safe, and more effective anyway, since you are then in a good position to control the puck yourself.
But...for whatever reason there are people who turn their backs to oncoming checkers as well. I don't know if they're trying to draw a penalty (I doubt it, as that's borderline suicide just for a call) or if they think they can escape the hit altogether by turning quickly. That's where players need to be aware of the situation they're in. This, again, does not apply to a player who already has his back to the checker and is protecting the puck, but to players that are lined up for a shoulder hit and then turn. These are getting called a lot as penalties, and they are dangerous, but that situation is created by the guy turning at the last second, and it's hard to fault the guy who has already committed to throwing the hit.
One of the cheapest hits I've ever seen was when Mike Bossy was standing in a relaxed position at the face-off circle while teams were changing up in the 1988 (?) Cup in Toronto when a Leaf cross-checked him in the middle of the back. I was there for the game, and could not believe the forgotten bum's name was not penalized nor did I hear anyone in the crowd say anything adverse, including the Toronto-based executive who was kind enough to invite me to the game.
This was among the numerous times when my strong beliefs the (Toronto-based) League did not like the small-market Isles and did what they could to prevent them from winning. However, the Isles showed them and will do it again.
nautika-
Go back and watch the Rangers game again. If you drop your Islanders glasses you will see that Asham swings his stick at/over Hollweg's head. Is that OK? Did Asham have a concussion too? THAT is why he got the penalty.
I agree, Hollweg is guilty of hitting from behind at times and I wish he'd cut it out becuase he takes WAY too many penalties and he's going to end up badly hurting someone.
I also agree with Upstate. Guys do seem to turn their back to the onrushing checker before the hit is delivered. I think they are doing this to protect the puck but it ends up putting them in a very vulnerable position.
Either way it needs to stop. These guys have to start showing more respect for each other.
Check out the Isles' web site...Guerin and Hilbert went out with their wives and Silly's wife to buy toys for kids in the hospital around the holidays, and there's an article w/accompanying photo.
Two items that I thought were interesting:
1) Mrs. Andy Hilbert is really attractive. Go Andy!
2) Mrs. Sillinger looks kind of like her husband. They say sometimes couples resemble each other, this is a good example.
http://islanders.nhl.com/team/app?articleid=346073&page=NewsPage&service=page
Matt, I noticed that too....I guess he can get past First Base off the ice, now if he could get there consistently ON the ice. Good to see the team involved in so many community initiatives. I really think that's the biggest missing piece right now - once again weaving this team back into the fabric of the Long Island community. This is why I love things like the Ice Girls and Sparky (even though I personally want to crack that dragon across his face): they give us more options for exposure in the community and marketplace. Great job guys, keep it up!
Its awesome that Guerin has a conscience and Hilbert's wife is hot (though how one makes that judgment from those photos I'm not sure) ...
But WHOS GONNA SCORE GOALS?
That's what I want to know. That's what matters on this team. That's what we should be writing about.
You want to see cheap hits? Try Hunter on Turgeon circa '93. I was about 15 or 20 feet away from that... If I had gotten over the glass, I would have (with a load of people with me) torn Hunters throat out right there on the ice.
Two months later I saw Turgeon in Roosevelt Field, with his ultra-hot soon-to-be-wife and their infant twins. He told me despite his ceremonial return after that hit he was at about 20% with that shoulder and could barely hold onto his stick. Very nice guy, very humble, very soft-spoken. Signed 2 autographs for me.
I don't know where you get the Hilbert thing, but want to talk about smoking-hot wives? Turgeon's lady would be up in the top 5 in NHL history, for sure.
Has anyone heard of Satan or Hunter going to the Canucks? I saw the rumor on this site:
http://brochuishockey.blogspot.com
What do you all think?
Well said, Greg. It's nice to know there is still some respect amongst the players these days -- unfortunately, examples like this are few and far between.
I think Guerin should stop worrying about hits and worry about motivating his team. Come on Billy this is hockey not hopscotch. It is one thing to be classy and another to be mousey. You gave a bad hit. You should apologize after the game. Move on!
Have to enjoy the biting criticism and sardonic demeanor of Frei, kinda rips right through the pleasantries. I know how you felt, I got very attached to that '93 Islander team (can you tell from my moniker?) and when Dale Hunter hit Turgeon I wanted him dead and then kicked out of the league in that order. I still get furious when people actually try to justify Hunter's actions by saying Turgeon was showboating after scoring. Anyway...no need to get worked up about that now.
Speaking of another Hunter, I've seen on the boars lately talk of letting him go in a trade. I am curious as to why? Sure he is a little slower than others but he is part of the heart of this team. He's one of the few that hits effectively, his hustle creates opportunities (see the Hilbert goal from the Tampa game), and he has a pretty good shot. He's had some problems putting the puck in the net this year but its something that everyone on the team is suffering through. I would be sad to see him go as he is fairly young and flanked with more natural goal scorers would be a big part of this team.
Maybe Ryan "no talent" Hollweg should read this article?
I think the Canucks rumor was, as usual, thought up by an overzealous Canadian reporter. Besides, concocting an Isles/Canucks rumor because Steve Tambellini is making the fathers' trip is like shooting fish in a barrel - not exactly a hard jump.
As for the scoring concerns, I share them, as many people know I've been beating the drum the loudest in favor of guys like Ryder and Cheechoo, and I coined the nickname "First Base" for Andy Hilbert. However, as a businessperson, I also realize it's important to re-introduce the Islanders to casual fans who turned their back on them 10 years ago, and to introduce new fans to the game (that's why I don't mind that stupid dragon - come for Sparky, come back for the hockey, not exactly a bad deal). Let's face it, good players + little fan outreach = a team that's still in trouble. Making the Islanders more visible in the community will bring people to the games, and instilling a new culture of winning will get them to come back. I like the idea, and frankly if anything I think it's been too long in coming.
As for the trade front, I'm still excited at the thought of possibly getting Schneider or, less likely, Beauchemin. Schneider is definitely more likely to go, since you have to add about $4 million for Corey Perry's extension in addition to the baseline they need to eliminate. I think Schneider on the point will solve most, if not all, of the problems we currently experience with MAB and Berard. It will allow us to either flip MAB to Anaheim in the deal or package him with a prospect to get a goal scorer. I have faith that we can solve some of our scoring problems.
Also, nice read about Blake Comeau. I'm a big fan of his, and I'd love to see him in the lineup this year.
JOHN RANGER FAN; I agree with Asham getting a penalty...but Hollwig should of two. So stop getting all mad, a majority of his hits have been from behind. You can not argue with that .I also go to say that he is not the only one that does it. I was pointing it out since I watched that game on Sunday. If I saw it on another game on Sudnay. and this article came up I would of brought it up. But since you think I am going after the Rangers you come over here. I saw Hollwig do, he is know for doing it through out the league. Its kind of weird someone else tried to take a stick to hollwigs head?????
Honestly, my comment is about a player who happens to be a ranger sorry. i can not talk about the rangers. I also go to say it did not affect the game. So calm down and get off your moms computer
The ducks are suppose to a make a trade by tomorrow so lets see what happens.
Guerin is a class act.
Steady, if you've ever hurt anybody in the heat of competition you'd know that what he did wasn't soft. It's a GAME, and I'm sure he was concerned that he may have seriously injured the kid. Though, I agree, he was not fully at fault there (I assume)... stuff happens. Where as with Hollweg, he has too much of a reputation for doing it to ever say, "well.. it was an accident" Holleweg deserves a progressive series of suspensions for his act. 2 games, .8..20...season, career.
MM/Hunter controlling the caps. I know this is just a rumor, but the fact that it has traction validates, to some degree, my assessment of the organization. Don't get me wrong, I like the caps, and I think they have a wealth of talent... but look where it is getting them. they are going to have to sell some of that talent this year, and god I hope MM is behind the counter.
"Mr. Milbury... me and my friends here would like that piece of gum behind you... here's a dime"
"Hey... what's that under your jackets... it looks like the whole beer fridge..."
"Nah, that's just Jimmy... he's pregnant! and tony ate his little brother last night... gotta go..see ya... thanks for the gumball!
TRADES: I can't see the Islanders and VAN in a deal that doesn't include Tambellini. Satan (UFA) and Hunter(RFA) can be shopped, but not now. As teams status is defined closer to the deadline their values should rise. I could see a team with serious cup aspirations giving up a #1 or 2 for Satan or a #2 for Hunter. Becasue the bottom of the first round is like throwing a dart at cockroach from the next room. I can see Hunter goign to the western conference and being more successful (see Torres and Isbister). I think they shoudl hold on to him though. His scoring drought will keep him cheap as an RFA, and good defensive forwards with 25 goal upsides aren't hanging around at the flea market.
Nick, Sorry, can't make it tomorrow. My car's in the shop and I can't get anybody here interested enough to shlep up to DC for the Hapless Caps.
Why in gods name is there consideration for bringing another 40-year old here, a defenseman no less? What good could that POSSIBLY do for this team? We've already decided the defense is fine as is and the problem is GOAL SCORING! We don't need to be older, or slower, we don't need more wisecracking dragons, we don't need more children as fans, or more circus-colored jerseys. We need SKILLED HOCKEY PLAYERS that can SCORE GOALS. That's it!
If management makes any kind of a trade and the player coming here is not at least a career 30 goal per season guy younger than 30 years old then they FAIL at their jobs.
Mattheu Schneider... You have GOT to be kidding me
Why not see what rich pilon is doing these days
All good, JP...I PM'ed you on TalkBack to let you know I couldn't make it either.
And JP, I know he's a center, but in terms of Vancouver, what do you think about Ryan Kesler? He's an agitator with some talent, and I think he would really fit our team concept.
And Frei, I really try to respect your opinion around here, but I think you need to take a step back and read what you just said there. You said we should concentrate solely on bringing in new goal scorers and not creating new fans. Anyone who works in anything business-related will tell you that the paramount concern for any business is to keep people interested in your product. I'm sure you would support the Islanders if they were a bunch of jerks who never did anything for the community but still won. You know what? I would too. However, you can't continue a franchise without attracting new generations of fans. I'm too young to remember the dynasty years, so I and many other Islander fans came of age during absolutely awful years, aside from that almost-magical '93 team that I still think should've won the Cup if not for Dale Hunter and the refs handing the conference finals to Montreal. We need to bring these people back, and I have less than no problem with Wang attempting to do that. This franchise is still in trouble as long as people continue to not show up. Period.
As for Schneider, if he can be acquired on the cheap, why isn't he worth a shot? He's still playing at a high level and would provide an instant PP upgrade over MAB or Berard. You advocate a guy under 30 who's averaged over 30 goals a year as the only trade target. You can't be serious. How many of those guys exist PERIOD, let alone are available right now? You can't shake the nearest tree and have a 30 goal scorer fall out, especially since you and many others have pointed out the Isles' lack of trading chips. We need to be smart about our acquisitions so we don't sell what's left of the farm or put ourselves at a disadvantage in this upcoming draft (by the way, guy to watch: Colin Wilson, freshman center at my alma mater, BU....I'd love to see him become an Islander).
I want to improve the team as much as the next fan, but you need to be realistic about what's out there and what we can legitimately acquire.
Posted by Saint Nick | December 11, 2007 14:30
And Frei, I really try to respect your opinion around here, but I think you need to take a step back and read what you just said there. You said we should concentrate solely on bringing in new goal scorers and not creating new fans. Anyone who ....
i think maybe what he's saying is the way to bring in new fans is to score more goals and win more games. this is something i have thought all along. if you win, they will come.
See, I agree with that in the abstract, but we've proven it doesn't work in reality. What about the Ryan Smyth trade last year? The Islanders acquired one of the most popular, heart-and-soul, talented winners in the league, and were currently sitting in 6th place in the conference. How many people showed up at his first game? 12,000. Seems like a funny example of build it and they will come. The fans AND management both need to work on changing the culture around here, because unless something changes on that front, we could acquire every great player in the league, but it would still be more of the same.
Nick, you just answered your own question... Frei is correct. I think the organization needs to make better decisions this year. to do that they can use last year as an example. they had a team they thought was one or two pieces away from a cup run, so they gave up a lot to bring in Smyth, Bergeron and Zednik, plus they gave up on Zhitnik for Meyer... (Meyer may be getting a taste to make a guy like MAB or Berard expendable)
I liked the attempt, but don't want to see it again. It was way too costly.
By identifying themselves as a cup contender they held on to guys like Blake, Poti and Kozlov who could have brought a few more darts to throw at the forementioned cockroaches.
I can admit now that I was wrong last year... but they did make the end of the season more exciting and who will ever forget the poke check.
I'd give up that memory for 2 first round picks last year and a couple of second rounders which might not have amounted to anything, but they'd be in the system.
Ours for Smyth, Maybe one or a prospect for Blake and grebeshkov in the system. Now we don't have any of the principals (except bergeron) we traded for, and the organization is depleted.
Let's not let that happen again for a guy like Schnieder, who I really like, but isn't worth anything to this team right now.
Look at what Campoli has become over the last two years. Miggsey really had some foresight last year. He'll be really coveted at the deadline... but he's as close to untouchable as we have.
The team definitely needs to get younger and faster. Trading Silly for a prospect or a first rounder and replacing on the roster with Walter makes the average age go down a full year. The team is not as good right now, but Walter gets 15 mins a game and is a much better player next year, we have a prospect in the system, and we don't have to worry so much about getting out of the parking lot after playoff games.
Probably the most valued players in the organization are Witt, Sillinger, Satan and Berard.
I'd like to see them sign Comrie, JoVas, tank and Hunter, but if you're not going to sign any one of them, get something for them... BUT BE DECISIVE!
Katie Strang writes a column in today's Newsday claiming the MAB/Gallant feud is over as far as the two combatants and Ted Nolan are concerned. I'd hazard a guess Katie believes there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, there is a tooth fairy and that Jessica Simpson is a neice of Homer Simpson.
I thought it was something to see those two go at that night. But that's it... it's over.
It may factor into MAB being shipped, but I'm sure the staff will make a more intelligent, objective assessment of MAB's value to the team.
PROs
Wicked slap shot.
Possesses above average speed as a puckhandling D.
Speaks fluent french... so he knows what the canadien fans are yelling at Witt.
Cons
Poor decsion maker with the puck.
Lack of confidence, which leads to hesitation and poor decision making.
Below average hockey sense (bad positioning).
No size. Gets pushed around in front of his own net.
Rarely wins one-on-one battles for the puck.
I've never been coached on the art of playing "D", but there are so many times I see him taking bad angles with the puck carrier. He missed a level of good AHL coaching. He will often take an outside angle to force a guy inside. That works if you're an NFL DE, but never as an NHL D. that's what the walls are for.
I won't say, like others have, that he sucks. He jsut seems to be missing some things that both Campoli and Gervais were missing as NHL rookies (and campoli seemed to forget last year as a sophmore). the problem is that MAB is not a rookie... He has improved this year, somewhat... but he's not playing defensively at the level of either Gervais or campoli... and he doesn't bring enough to the PP to make it effective either.
He'll be on the bubble the next 6 weeks... if they can get a high pick or somebody with grebeshkov's potential from Moose Jaw or Medicine Hat he's a goner.
Gervais already takes care of the ordering at the Denny's in Montreal.
I think JP's last comments are on the money.
RE: Schneider. I think, depending on who he is traded for, can help the team. My main concerns are ... Does his offensive ability translate well into Atlantic Division play? Is he too small for our division? I really haven't seen him much lately ... but I assume he's lost a step or two and that could be crucial down the stretch. Not that MAB is Mr. energy all over the place. My final question would be .... how much of his salary are the Isles willing to take on? MS makes a lot of money for what I think he's really worth.
I don't think MS is the elixir this team needs to cure it of all its woes. I think they need help up front way more than on the blue line. Someone talented that can move the puck at speed and have a shot. I just dont think many are on the block that can fill those needs at this time. Besides, I don't think one single deal will turn the Isles into a contender. That is my 3 year plan hope.
I like Schneider too ... just like I did Berard... but right now MS is the better player.
Nick, I think what it is, and maybe I didn't really spell it out, is that teams in general and historically this team especially are products that succeed or fail based on their quality.
I think there are plenty of ready fans here on the island. They are very savvy and knowledgeable and are more than willing to support the team, but the team has not yet had enough success for them to believe they are for real.
When the team plays well, and people believe it is a good team, fans show up. Get that key there, the part about belief? Its critical because it goes a long way toward the fan's decision to spend money to go and see the team in person. When the team is strong, and playing well, and you have reasonable expectation of a positive entertainment experience by going to the game, its very easy to make the decision to go. When your team is at or about the lowest scoring in the league (a league supposedly retooled for offense and its entertainment value), there exists a pretty good chance that you're gonna lose and fans don't want to spend their hard-earned money to see that. Frankly, even when they win games these days they just aren't playing exciting hockey... I appreciate the greatness of a flawlessly executed defensive system that relies on opportune offense, but it simply isn't any fun to watch, and certainly isn't what the league is trying to promote to draw more fans.
This team has goaltending in spades, and plenty of defense. It lacks speed and skill up front. By adding scoring, the team would, presumably, score some goals, which would, in turn, lead to some more wins, which might eventually get people believing this is a good team again, which would almost certainly put some more fannies in the seats.
See? Simple.
JP must you write a novel every time you sit at your computer? Also please stop playing both sides of the fence. Last year you fought with all the fans that said the Smyth deal was a bad one. Now your against it also?
I agree that in the NY area, winning is the biggest determinant of attendance, but it takes time for success to bring people around again. As I have posted before, the Mets' attendance DOUBLED from 2003 to 2007. Literally doubled in 4 years, as the team showed a renewed commitment to winning and some success on the field. But it takes four years or so, not one. The new regime on the Island has only been in place for a little over one season. And we've already seen significant attendance growth relative to last year. If the Isles have another couple of strong seasons, they'll be selling out the building by the 4th year of the Snolan administration.
And remember the Islanders are trying to recover from more than a decade of severe ownership problems, losing hockey, terrible marketing, etc., etc. (unlike the Mets who had had more recent success and stable ownership). People need to have a little patience. They're doing the right things and Wang is committed long-term to making this succeed. It's going to happen.
gary... no novel here... read the whole post. I liked the deal at the time, I still appreciate the effort by the organization, but in hindsight it was a bad move and hopefully one that won't be repeated.