Blue Notes

Hey Steve send your blog to John Gianone who seems to think fighting should be out of the game! I am shocked that Al Trautwig didnt slug him between periods!

John Gianone is part of a soapbox group - they don't actually understand the game but networks pay them to talk about it anyway, and so they get up on their soapbox and decry fighting - blah blah blah.

Look, it's never good to see a player lying motionless on the ice, but seriously, how often have fights resulted in that? Now how many times have cheap shots like the one delivered by Chris Neil against Chris Drury, Simon to Hollweg, etc. left guys laid out?

Guys like Colton Orr, Ryan Hollweg, Todd Fedoruk, Ben Eager, Donald Brashear are like having big mean dogs in your yard. They are there to send a message that sure, you can run at our skill players, but keep in mind, I'm here to run at yours. Or you can pick on someone your own size, we can mix it up and let the skill players on both teams do what they do best while we cool off for five in the box.

The thing is, the fight didn't stop the Flyers last night from making runs at Jagr. Think the "message" is going to carry over to March 31st at the Wachovia Center?

One of the big criticisms against this Ranger team earlier in the season was their lack of overall grit. I am pleasantly suprised to see that overall team defense has improved and that this group is now standing up for each other. I know there is still a lot of time left, but I feel a lot more confident in this Ranger team now. The hope is that they don't let us down now. LETS GO RANGERS

Very well said Steve. I'm not a big fan of fighting in hockey, but I understand it's place in the game. And last night was the perfect example of why it's a necessary part of the game. Having been in the Garden to watch the Flyers decimate the Rangers with late hits and cheap shots on Feb 17th, and having been in the Garden again last night, I can tell you Orr's being in the line up, and his early KO of Fedoruk, most certainly kept the Flyers in check. Yes, there were still a few cheap shots, but nothing to the extent of the Feb 17th game.

And for the record, Ben Eager gets the coward of the night award for three times refusing Strudwick's invitation to go after he boarded Strudwick in the corner. It's players like that, who run around taking shots but refusing to stand up and face the music that ultimately cause games to get out of hand.

Zach said it best. Notice how the fighting didn't stop Eager from running around.

Goons fighting goons does nothing to stop people from playing beyond the rules, and taking physical liberties against people. And it sure won't stop Fedoruk the NEXT game - cause now he has a motive to go out and prove his toughness.

Fighting serves NO purpose BECAUSE the refs let people like Eager run around and do what he does. How did Orr protect his teammates from that? By hitting the Flyers' goon?

Ok, so Orr then went after Eager - and they got their 5 minute penalties and then Eager came back and CONTINUED to run guys.

If the NHL wants to stop guys from taking liberties with its players (whether star or otherwise), it has to do two things:

(1) severely penalize guys when they do it - whether on the ice or through suspensions, and
(2) take guys like Orr and Fedoruk and Jannsen out of the league. Get rid of fighting, and 95% percent of the goons disappear - leaving only the people like Simon and Eager and Avery and Hatcher to deal with when they cross the line.

The NHL and its fans have to accept fighting for what it is - cheap entertainment for its fans. It has absolutely zero deterrent value. It doesn't and will never stop people from head hunting, and it doesn't and will never stop the freak incidents like Simon's stick swing.

Saget, no it may not have prevented Eager from running around, but the whole tenor of the game was changed when Fedoryk was beaten.

It makes no sense to deny human nature and not seek revenge. It's done in baseball. It's done in football. It's done in basketball. Sure, all to a lesser extent, but done nonetheless. Hockey players are modern day gladiators. If Fedoryk didn't want to fight he didn't have to. When the Rangers meet the Flyers again, he'll be apprehensive about taking cheap shots. And hopefully he'll get taunted by the Rangers, and take stupid penalties. That's the way the game goes.

I hope Dale Rolf watched Orr's work - Gianone doesn't understand the NHL - he's a pond hockey player

Dan:

you're right - the tenor of the game changes. for the next 3 minutes, the crowd was silent, instead of rockin like it would have been if Shanahan's return hadnt been interrupted by that injury. Thankfully Prucha's 2nd effort brought the crowd back to life.

Saget:

I think the Garden faithful were satisfied with the fight. No one wants to see people get injured, except Simon, but people realized this was something that had to be done.

I don't understand how people can say that Orr's two fights didn't prevent more cheapshots from the Flyers. After the Flyers have repeatedly physically beaten the Rangers the last year and a half (since the lockout), finally someone stood up to them before things got out of control. Yes, Eager did put a hard questionable hit on Strudwick, but other than that the normally chippy Flyers were not there usual selves. Maybe the score or back-to-back games had something to do with it, but Hatcher and company were not physical. Having been in the garden last night and on all the Rangers-Flyers games since the lockout, my money would be on the fight's having more to do with it than anything else.

LET'S GO RANGERS!

By the way, I hope the Blueshirts knock the Islanders out of the playoff hunt this weekend after they lose to Pittsburgh tonight.

for the record, Fedorik iniciated the fight. He said so himself. If you dont like the toughness and fighting in the game of hockey, don't watch. Fighting plays a big role ion the game

Saget, your right about fighting not being a detterant, its not, but theres a point in the game when showing someone that he's not the only person on the ice is necessary. Orr was only defending his team, and thats needed in the NHL. And Steve hit it right on the money. Refs would rather call harmless holding calls than cheap shots and sucker punches which result in fights.

Orr's fight of course did not stop Eager from throwing body checks. No fight will ever stop it. It's hockey for crying out loud. If you don't have bodychecking, you don't have hockey. Who ever said that a fight will stop bodychecks? Eager is Eager, he's going to throw his weight around no matter what, just like any hockey player with a heart will. What Orr did last night was make Fedoruk answer for his actions in the last meeting. That's what it's about. If you are going to run our guys, go ahead. At some point, you will have to answer for it and last night Fedoruk did. At some point, Eager will answer for his hits but if anyone thinks that the tone of the game wasn't set by Orr's KO, they simply have no idea what they are talking about. Outside of Eager, the rest of the Flyers played with their tails between their legs. See Jagr talk about it after the game with a huge smile on his face? Hear Jagr say how important it was and how it empowered the team? I guess a guy like Saget knows better huh? Hear Hatcher say it affected the whole Flyer team? How they lost their train of thought and couldn't get the image out of their heads? See several Flyers hang their heads on the bench after the KO? See the final score as 5-0? See the Rangers as the aggressors? That's what Orr did. Live with it, or go watch tennis.

zipay, you are officially ridiculous. did that stop orr from blatantly cheap shoting ovechkin with an elbow to the head. i guess no ranger player is ever guilty of anything.

he never said all rangers players are innocent and he got suspended five games. fighting definitely serves its purpose, but its not foolproof. players will still do stupid things from time to time. even if there was no fighting stuff like that would still happen on occasion until the league gets really severe about shots to the head, like year long/lifetime suspensions

Orr should have received a star in the game. What he did was needed, deserved and allowed the rest of the team to skate without always wondering about the next cheap shot. It boosted the team and even though fighting is diminished as it should be, it will always be a required part of a physical game. Thank you Mr. Orr for restoring credibility to the NY Rangers yesterday.

Anyone who tries to say figting is not a deterent is someone who never played the game (and no pond hockey, mens league, dek hockey, roller hockey dont count). Since the NHL has enforced the instigator rule there have been more headshots, cheapshots and stick incidents then before. It is bc there is a lack of respect from players since they know they will not have to pay the price.
Opinions are like as%holes everyone has them, but it is comical hearing comments from people who are flat out softies! You have no idea what it is like in the lockeroom and what fighting does for a team. Try telling Jagr fighting doesnt belong in the game.
Hey ask Gretzky if Dave Semenko was a waste of time?
Dont Rangers fans love Adam Graves for jumping anyone who looked at Mess the wrong way??
go watch Golf!

Saget,
Join Gianone on the pond with you figure skates. Been at both games, Orr did his job, did it well and set the course of that game in 21 seconds.

Pete,
What is your attraction to Steve Zipay? Are you too secure with your feminine side? You like him don't you?

BDP62:

"What Orr did last night was make Fedoruk answer for his actions in the last meeting. That's what it's about. If you are going to run our guys, go ahead."

Maybe I'm misinterpreting - but are you suggesting this is a good thing? Isn't this mentality encouraging players to cross the line?

In other words, "go ahead Jannssen, and elbow my star defensemen in the head so he misses a few weeks...but beware - you may get punched in the helmet and have to miss 5 minutes of the game the next time we play!!!"

Im exaggerating to make my point - Orr fighting Fedoruk doesn't protect Jagr in the least. Nothing is going to stop Fedoruk, Eager, and any other low-talent nobody from taking advantage of the players who are not going to retaliate, in a league that has shown no interest in removing those cheap shots from the game.

But if you call the game so that those players are NOT needed, they are off the rosters and not an issue. You'd still have players like Hollweg and Avery who can play the game and bring a physical element to the team.

Orr did the right thing. Fedorik has a metal face and should know better than to fight a guy knowing his face is going to cave in.

Orr and other enforcers do belong in the game. They clear the ice for the goal scorers and play makers. If one of those guys is running around and hitting your stars, you fight him and he's off the ice for at least a five minute interval allowing the stars to do their thing. It's pretty simple actually.
It's been part of this game for as long as I can remember. It disgusts me we have to have this conversation over and over and over.

Let's go Rangers!

Saget you couldn't be any closer to wrong if it was a tattoo on your forehead.

You can not compare what Orr did to cheap. Feb 17th was not cheap shots either. It's running your star players. That is what its about. If Jagr gets laid out someone pays for it! They were running and gunning all night Feb 17th.

The thing is and sitting there last night i could see it to. People think that if Jagr gets checked there should be a penalty. Why because he wears # 68. His jersey says Jagr? No there is no need for a call. If he gets leveled center ice, gets hipped checked and does a flip. If its clean should there be a call? Maybe...but toughness, the dirty work and fighting are a very much needed element of hockey.

The day they take it out we all better find a new sport to watch or new hobbies because that is the day the NHL signs its walking papers.

Amen Zipay. Agree with you 100%. I do not cheer the fighting and rather it not occur but no it is a neccessary part of the game..

Fights like this stop guys like darcy tucker and others from being cheap and hurting people..

Good job Orr, a tough guy who finds no pleasure in his knockout...

Orr's teamates should thank him, he has a damn tough job...

Look, Orr knocks out Fedoruk. The tone of that game changed immediately. I was at the Feb. 17th game and I sat and wondered who was going to get run next. Last night, aside from Eager's hit on Struds (which was could have been called either way), I didn't see anything dirty. Eager was throwing BODYCHECKS. That is part of the game. The headhunting that occured on Feb. 17th never materialized.

Yes, seeing Fedoruk out was unsettling and I'm glad he's OK, but, it prevented further cheapshots. It's an integral part of the game.

That was for Dale Rolfe and every other Ranger who has gotten his butt kicked by a Flyer over the years. Nothing better in the world than seeing a thug Flyer being taken off on a stretcher on MSG ice after a fight. Nothing.

I don't mind people saying that there shouldn't be fighting in hockey. What ever, it's their opinion and everyone is entitled to the opinion. I just wish that the people who voiced these opinions watched hockey in the first place. Mike and Mad Dog had it right. Russo doesn't like the fighting and Francessa countered, that they aren't hockey guys to begin with and a fight like that will not make someone turn on or turn off the game.

Orr knocked the entire flyer squad down a peg with that one punch....To those who think that Orr's fight did not change the game I have this for you, When Prucha charged at Gauthier for the first goal why didn't Gauthier knock him over with one of his usual nasty hits?.....HMMMM...Thatta boy Colton.

Well said Chip, Sam and Joe said it to last night. Last night and this morning its on the local news and this place and that.

Normal day of hockey the scores are tickered across the bottom of the screen and they don't care. Will they ever show a goal like Ovechkins where he is on his back shooting over his head? NO!

Because they can't continue to slam hockey with stuff like that.

Hockey doesn't get a fair shake. That's also why clowns with comments like Gianone do no good for the sport.

What everyone who says that fighting needs to be romed is missing this. Your just supposed to let their bigger guys slam around your smaller guys? When Orr knocked him out guess what, perhaps it didnt deter Eager but the rest of the team was. The point is this, once Orr one the Flyers (aside from Eager) werent throwing around cheap shots because they just watched a teamate and friend get his head knocked in.

the dumbest comment I've heard thus far is that Renny should be held accountable because he should have started Shanny on the first shift for the emotional outburst of the return.

See those are the people who irritate me, people who think they know a little about the game but don't realize that a) no one cares who the first unit on the ice is and b) that fourth unit has established themselves as the defensive line and so Renny was starting them against Philly's top scoring line...it's called matching. And it was the Flyer coach who after the game started put Fedoruk on the ice to match up with Orr.

For those who don't believe Orr's fighting reduced the Flyer's physical play (saget). There is a great interview with Jordan Staal on espn.com. In it they ask him about the difference LaRaque has made and he says, "Laraque's a big man. He's a force out there. Honestly, ever since he came here, things have settled down a bit. For players like Evgeni, it really helps, I think. It was a great move by our staff." Interpret settle down a bit as you want, but to me it means teams they play against cannot be as physical with their stars (Malkin/Crosby).

John,

There is a difference between physical play and and taking liberties. I have no problem with a guy delivering a hard check to Jagr. My problem is with the guys who throw elbows and all that.

The new NHL stinks! you need tough guys! This stuff of having guys like Avery and Hollweg (tough guys??) be able to go out and hit with no repercussions...come on now people. Take the instigator out of the game and guys like Hollweg, Tucker, Avery, etc... woulndt be playing the way they do.. they would need to be more aware of who is out there against them.

Hey NHL94 had no fighting in the game.. and YES it sucked!!!

I went to a boxing match and a hockey game broke out!! LMAO!! ha ha

I love the Mad Dog, but he is a dope on this one, and if I could call in I would.

He just rambled on today about what a disgrace it was seeing Fedoruk on the ice, he was sickened, bad for hockey, BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Then he goes on to ask whether or not Shanahan played last night.

How could anyone who claims who saw the game last night not know if Shanahan played last night? It was the story of the game!!!!

Russo is a baffoon

Zipay is right on this one. The Rangers have gotten pushed around way too much this year. It's about time -- especially just before the playoffs -- that other teams find out that they will pay for cheap shots against Jagr and our other skilled players...

Don't pay attention to Mad Dog... He's just looking for an excuse for why his knowledge of hockey is so pitiful...

The problem with Mike and Mad Dog when they talk about hockey fights is that they are using the argument, "you don't see it in football."

Well here's why you don't see it in football, the league doesn't let a 400lb d-tackle touch the QB anymore. Forget cheap shots, legitimate hits are flagged and you know what, people complain about that too.

Again, this is maybe the second or third time in my 28 years that I have seen a guy get laid out in a fight, what often knocks guys out of games are cheap shots, the presence of an Orr, a Laroque, a Fedoryk, a Simon, or a Brashear is to give the other team pause before taking those cheap shots.

Here's my simple answer to everyone complaining about the fighting in hockey. If you don't like the way the game is played, don't watch it.

I don't watch tennis or golf, it doesn't make them bad sports, just not my thing, I like hockey the way it is and so do lots of other people. There is no rule that says every sport has to be geared towards every fan.

All these idiot media personalities either never played hockey, don't truly understand the grit, effort, energy, and team camraderie that exists in the game of hockey, or they just don't understand the game period.

So easy to bash hockey for those buffoons. But the steroids disgrace in MLB and NFL, the Cincinatti Bengals and Minnesota Vikings off field antics in the NFL, the criminal NBA and the thugs in that sport who carry guns and jump into the stands don't get more than a minute's discussion from these same media clowns.

Hockey players carry lethal weapons in their hands. Take fighting out of the game and you will get many more Chris Simon-like incidents. That much I know.

Jordan Tootoo's actions the other day, while not a good thing, were a few notches better than Simon's actions as he used his hands not his stick. That is why he got 5 games and not 25. (And if you want my 2c, I have an issue with Modano not taking on Tootoo right then and there. I know what Shanny would have done.)

Regarding the Fedoruk fight, it had to be done. The Flyers have nothing to play for except for trying to ruin other people's chances. To them, that means Hatcher and Eager will take runs at people and use elbows. In fact, I would have liked to see Strudwick or Hollweg or Orr take on both those other two apes after Orr made work of Fedoruk.

This was about Orr making a statement that said, "Yeah I missed the last Flyer-Ranger game and it was out of hand. This time it won't be." Plain and simple.
Did I like seeing Fedoruk carried off on a stretcher? Absolutely not. But what goes around comes around. In addition, one thing I do know is that the Rangers don't walk all over the Flyers 5-0 and dominate the game like they did if that fight didn't go that way.

Bring on the Bruins.

Chip:

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Again, this is maybe the second or third time in my 28 years that I have seen a guy get laid out in a fight, what often knocks guys out of games are cheap shots, the presence of an Orr, a Laroque, a Fedoryk, a Simon, or a Brashear is to give the other team pause before taking those cheap shots.
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Really? I dont know about you, but I've watched a ton of NYR games this year where Orr was in the line up, and guys like Jagr and Prucha were routinely bashed around without response. And its hard to say these guys "prevent" cheap shots because they are often the ones delivering them.

I honestly don't believe that removing fighting from the game would have any effect on "cheap shots", or stick incidents. You may believe otherwise. The saddest thing about this, is that this side talk about fighting and the injury last night is taking attention away from the more important stories - Shanahan's return, Avery's continued strong play, Lundqvist's continued MVP play, Prucha's rejuvenation, the confident and strong play of Girardi Pock, and Mara, and last night at least, the effort of Jagr.

Chip - Fedoruk does not serve to deter other teams from cheap shots vs the Flyers. He is, rather, one of those who does the cheap shots on other teams better players. He is one of the players that other teams tough guys exist for - to protect their stars.

Have a nice laugh at Fedoruk's expense, you won the game too. While you're at it keep up the cheap shots coming (Avery)while you can get away with it. Ranger thuggery won't work in the playoffs.

Ranger Soprano,

Your a joke!
Ranger Thuggery?
Obviously not a Rangers fan that is fine. But, watch a game and get a clue before you jump on the computer at the school library!

Ranger Thuggery?!?!

I think the concern today is that players are bigger today than in the past and the bigger they are, the harder they fall. But hockey is not just the NHL and fighting is part of games at every adult level. If the NHL were to try to introduce European rules here, a new WHA would form and that would be a much more serious rival to the health of the NHL than it was the last time. Far more dangerous than two guys squaring off against each other in two-minute bouts are the cheap shots. Ruutu could have seriously injured Jagr in his blindside, which occured not in the NHL, but at the Olympics, and nothing could be done about it. Remove fighting and the psychos like Ruutu would have a field day. Remove the instigator rule and the Ruutus would be put out of business.