The Steel Cage

Yes, I think WWE is weaning Chris Benoit back into the history books. When it started, I knew the "Benoit embargo" was not designed to last forever, and WWE is progressing it a little quicker than I expected. I thought it would be one year before his name or likeness was featured anywhere.

The impending release of the SummerSlam Anthology (at least according to Silvervision.co.uk) includes Benoit's matches, which is a sure sign that we will be hearing and reading his name more & more.

BTW, part of the audio edit could be the deafening "We Want Benoit" chant that was mentioned on WWE.com's recap of the match, then edited out that Tuesday for obvious reasons.

And to answer your last open-forum question, I would like to think that the Benoit legacy is going to be characterized by an "unforgiven/unforgotten" dichotomy.

His talent, his matches, and his contributions were too great to be forgotten, but his actions were simply too horrific, too shocking, and too unexpected to forgive.

It took me a good couple of months of watching Benoit's matches, interviews, etc on other DVD's to get that squeemish feeling back down to one of acceptance. We will probably never get a best of Benoit compilation DVD other than the biographical one a few years ago, but then again, it's not like the NFL erased OJ Simpson completely after what he did - or what he'd do if he did do it.

we shouldnt have to feel bad about watching nancy.woman was a great performer.and remember she was a victim in all this.as a father i can never remember chris benoit as a performer.he was my favorite wrestler and ill never watch him again.

I don't really care if they write Benoit out of the history books. Compared to what he did, him pretending to fight someone in a ring seems so insignificant. How can I enjoy his "workrate" in a wrestling ring knowing that he killed his wife and son?

As for Nancy, she certainly should not be written out of history and her career should be celebrated, but at the same time I agree that it is hard to be simply entertained by her work knowing about her tragic end.

Benoit and Angle were my favorite wrestlers. I hated that after he won the gold they demoted him to US and Intercontinental title runs. (Y2J anyone?)

And I think HHH has started using the crossface. I thought they would ban that for a lot longer than they did.

There is no way Vince wont try to capitalize on Benoit's actions down the line. We will see a Chris Benoit DVD out sooner rather than later. And I'm sure a % will go to some sort of women charity, a very small % though.

Benoit may have been the best midcarder of all time. A Quadrupile A wrestler, not big enough for the Main event, but too good for jobber roles.

I think its fine if they mention him as long as they ALWAYS include a reference to what happened.

I have no problem with them editing out Chris Benoit. I did have a problem with them editing out Nancy (which didn't last very long) because she was the victim, and if you cut her out, her murderer "wins" in a sense.

I have no problem with them editing out Chris Benoit. I did have a problem with them editing out Nancy (which didn't last very long) because she was the victim, and if you cut her out, her murderer "wins" in a sense.

WWE can't write to him. WWE can delete his image and mute any reference, but we're still talking about him here. I understand where they are coming from, but to act like he never existed it silly. Better to confront, understand and condemn what he did (if need be) and move on.

I cant watch Benoit matches anymore.

I inevitably just start pondering 'why did you do it Benoit?'

It's never a good time.

Interesting point about Nancy, Bix. So how do you feel about her work when she was seconding Benoit to the ring? How would you handle that?

Benoit's ring ability will unfortunately continue to be overshadowed by his and his family's deaths. It's just to weird to see Benoit any more. I hardly even mention him.

Also, it feels weird to say this, but if Benoit hadn't gone home for Vengeance, will the Nitro (Morrison)-Punk feud ever have started? I think that feud is the most entertaining long term one in WWE right now. I know I'm comparing real life death and storylines but still...

I don't blame the WWE for erasing Benoit's existence and legacy these last 12 months. Benoit destroyed his own legacy, the WWE is just finishing what he started.

I still can't watch any Benoit match. While I was watching The Rise And Fall Of ECW few months back there is a brief mention of Benoit and I wanted to skip ahead that chapter.

His actions also brought a damning smear all over the industry. The media firestorm that rained down on wrestling as a whole didn't help the already negative view most people have on the sport and its fans. In my eyes this practically undoes all of the accolades and acclaim that Benoit earned throughout his career.

At first I thought it was stupid to take him out but now I've just kind of gotten used to it.

Either way, I'm not really upset at this point.

I would be lying if I said I didn't feel anything when I see pictures or video of Chris Benoit. I still get that "tragic ending" twinge during an old DVD, or flipping through a magazine.

In fact, for a while, I took his card out of my copy of the WWE DVD Board Game (2nd Edition, for those keeping score at home). A couple weeks ago, I slid his card back into the deck. Since then, I've seen him appear, and it hasn't been too bad to deal with.

He still carries that "tragic ending" twinge, similar to what I feel when I see Eddie Guerrero, Brian Pillman, or Owen Hart. It's different, obviously, but the core of the feeling remains the same. I reconcile myself to it, then I move on for that one viewing. Next time, I'll spend another minute reconciling, and move on. So on and so forth.

Unfortunately, even for those that *could* do the same, there is a paradigm that demands we never forgive and never forget. There are people that are still complaining about how terrible it is to live in New York City after 9/11, though the city has clearly moved on. America's martyrdom complex will persevere as long as it has an audience: someone to listen to the cries of so-called suffering and a hunger for attention disguised as pain. Expect nothing less from the Benoit debacle, because there will always be someone who puts on an agonizing show every time they see a Benoit match, despite turning a blind eye to similar situations that happened before media scrutinized every iota of society.

Something no one ever seems to bring up. By cutting everything Benoit-related out, you're punishing everyone he ever worked with. That's a whole lot of matches with a whole lot of people. MVP had a super long US title reign, but we weren't allowed to talk about that he won it from Chris Benoit.

You have to remember there are other people involved, and by getting rid of his image, you remove other people's legacies as well.

I think condeming Benoit's professional performance for his personal life (or death in this case) is a horrible thing to do. Its funny how how differently WWE handled the deaths of Eddie and Benoit, as they were treated as polar opposites. Eddies image and name was exploited and still is, and Benoit has never been mentioned. Eddie was elevated to hero status because he died a natural death, yet his previous deviant behavior is never mentioned. Years of substance abuse that he and many other performers that have died prematurely such as mr perfect and rick rude are ignored (Men who I admire, as I do every performer who goes out there, despite the faults they may or may not have) , yet one day of benoits behavior has cost him everything. Personally, I feel much more offended by seeing Vickie Guerrero making out with Edge than by JR mentioning Benoit.

To pretend the man didnt exist, and that he wasnt an admirable performer is just plain foolish. WWE should not permanently erase every memory of Benoit, as his mark in the business is too big to be ignored. But I do understand why people would feel uncomfortable watching one of his matches, and WWEs decision to do just that, at the very least for a while. Some people have come to terms with it already, other will take longer, and yet other may never learn to separate the man from the killer, and the killer from the performer. WWE has taken this into consideration, and hopefully theyll realize you cant please everyone and a compromise will have to be made.
Someone brought up the upcoming Summerslam Anthology. Its one thing to not include matches with Benoit from single wrestler DVD sets, but its another to remove them from such a set. If someone is paying 200$ for the summerslam dvd set, they better have every match in there. Is summerslam 2004 gonan be main event less?

Everytime i see videos of wrestlers who have died, I get that weird hes no longer around feeling. however, I barely get it for Benoit. That whole Raw tribute show was the last time I got it strongly, as I was still processing the fact that he was gone. But it diminished after time, how many of that can be attributed to the circumstances of his death its unknown. I get it the most with Owen Hart though, who by all accounts was a great guy and died in the stupidest, most meaningless and tragic way I can imagine.

His actions also brought a damning smear all over the industry. The media firestorm that rained down on wrestling as a whole didn't help the already negative view most people have on the sport and its fans. In my eyes this practically undoes all of the accolades and acclaim that Benoit earned throughout his career.

A "media firestorm" and a "damning smear"? Quite honestly, some of the more aggressive bottom feeders like Nancy had no interest in a fair and balanced coverage, but for the rest: The wrestling world gave them more than enough fodder all by itself.

I mean, damnit, even if we ignore the horrible track record of xenophobia, misogyny and latent racism, there's still the fact that for years steroids, HGH and painkillers were a well known fact that everyone simply chose to ignore. Austrich tactics: If we don't see it, it doesn't exist. The same goes for the way substance abuse is treated.

Jeff Hardy was fired for his "personal demons", but he never had to come clean, because TNA was there just waiting for him. Same with Kurt Angle. Damn, I love Kurt for his in-ring ability, but the guy is catastrophe just waiting to happen. Either he snaps or his body gives. But rather than taking time to heal, rather than changing his lifestyle, he works for TNA and continues as he did before.

And then there are the injuries, the way people abused their bodies because they feared to fall wayside, the entire thing about the cumulative effect of concussions (something I feel in part responsible, because as a fan I support these dangerous matches, unprotected chair shots, etc.), which the business also preferred to ignore far too long.

So, yes, Benoit's dead made the new media look at wrestling and paint a negative picture. But a large part of that is not undeserved. And you know what, as long as something good is coming from this (be it better social security for wrestlers, be better medical care, a less taxing schedule or just a wellness policy that's really effective and not just a smoke screen), I can live with that.

Saying that Benoit is to blame for this, because with his deed he made the media take a closer look at wrestling is hypocritical. One way or another, the news media would have discovered the ugly underbelly of the world of wrestling sooner or later anyway...

I don't know whether they are indeed 'weening' him back into history, but I hope not, at least for now.
I still can't watch him on any of the old DVDs that I have.
Whether or not this lasts I don't know.

I tried a few months ago. I actually watched, of all things, the match with Bret Hart in WCW, in Kansas City to honor Owen. It seemed beyond surreal.

Perhaps that was the wrong match to try and watch, but the feeling that I had was still the same as when the idea of what he had done finally settled in my head, "How could you?"

I have had the same feeling watching WWE 24/7. Only a couple of months after the murders, they were replaying WCW Nitro from the time of the Sullivan/Woman/Benoit angle completely unedited, and it was just painful to watch. It seems like no one was/is scrutinizing 24/7 too heavily; even their blotting out of the old WWF logo seems pretty lax.

I just read "Ring of Hell", and thought it was a well done, well thought out investigation of what led Benoit to the point he eventually reached. Did anyone else read it? And what did you think?

Also, Triple H using the crossface is and more than a little disgusting. Police reports have led people to conclude, due to the bruising on Daniel Benoit's arm and neck, that Chris used that hold to kill him. What could they possibly be thinking?

How about dissasccocitating the move from Benoit so it can actually brought back into the wrestling landscape again? HBK has also used it. It's a wrestling hold, to say it shouldn't be used ever again just because of Benoit's idiocy is ridiculous.

I don't have a problem with them 'erasing' Benoit. They can't be associated with a murderer. They can't advertise a murderer in order to make money. They can't proudly claim that a murderer was one of the most respected people in their professsion - it makes the entire sport look bad. I'm sure they'll slowly bring him back in to history when the fuss has completely died down, but right now it makes business sense to not have them connected to Benoit.

If it makes business sense to distance themselves from Benoit, it makes sense to distance themselves from the move he may or may not have used to commit murder.

The fact that you can't see fault in anything WWE/HHH does is pretty gross, man. Read Ring of Hell, it has some interesting firsthand accounts from ex-writers of what goes on at WWE. It might change your uninformed opinion.

Actually, nevermind, I know it won't. Since everyone can guess what you're going to say about any given topic, why bother posting? It's not like your points are anything but WWE ass-kissing anyway, and you (willfully, it seems) miss the point. Constantly.

Whoops, ranting. Seriously, pleasepleasePLEASE don't pick this fight.

There's a difference between glorifying Benoit, advertising his name in order to make money, and trying to bring a wrestling hold back into the business. Totally and completely doing. Why do you think they are not using his name but using the hold? Do you think decisions are just made randomly on a whim with no consideration?

If you think reading Ring Of Hell suddenly makes you totally informed about how the business works then you are wrong.

Anyway, I always 'get' the point. I never 'miss' it, I just disagree with the vast majority of IWC misconceptions about the business. I've said that last week's Raw sucked, so I don't blindly defend them at every turn. I didn't ask for a hostile argument, you are the only one seemingly trying to steer the mood that way.

It's a touchy subject, dude. And your first paragraph doesn't even make sense.

Immediately jumping on any anti-WWE opinion is hostile, no matter what you say. It's like trolling. So don't be surprised by a little negative feedback, especially with a situation as disturbing to people as Benoit's.

I know I'm not totally informed, but reading does help with that, at least a little. Try it and see.

One word was a typo. I typed doing instead of different. God knows why, but that should clear up that first paragraph.

I didn't immediately jump on an anti WWE opinion. There were 20 comments before I even entered the debate, because there was one I particularly disagreed with. It isn't just HHH doing the crossface, and it will have been a carefully considered decision to put that spot in a match. Obviously they have their reasons for removing him from their product where they can help it. It isn't a decision taken lightly. It's a carefully considered one. I'd guess that since they are trying to market towards families, they don't want to advertise a murderer that killed his own family, or have him in any way associated with the product. How can they possibly mention his name on TV?

'MVP is now entering his 10th month as US champion, he won the title from Chris Benoit at Judgement Day 2007, unfortuneately Benoit is no longer with us...'

It just wouldn't work, the second they mention his name in any way, people wonder why he isn't on TV anymore. People then remember that he killed his family, and their enjoyment will be soured. Parents won't want to sit down with their kids and watch some wrestling when they are being reminded about a family that was tragically killed. The difference between the handling of Benoit's and Eddie's deaths is that Eddie didn't kill his family. Yeah he had his own demons, but if you look around the crowd at tribute shows, you see loads of people crying. They loved Eddie. He was a name to be celebrated. If you sit down with your kids and Eddie is mentioned, you feel sad but you remember the great career, the crowd chants his name and the announcers remind you about what a talent he was. What Benoit done was way beyond anything Eddie ever did, and you cannot have him associated with your product, certainly not in the midst of a media storm, and their should be time allowed for it to settle after that also.

I'm not trolling. The only reason it looks that way is because I still vehemently disagree with everyone just assuming that anything the company does has no thought behind it. It's always 'That's wrong!' without actually considering why they do something. If what they do doesn't make immediate sense upon first hearing, people write it off, call it stupid, call it anything. It's such a riduclous approach to take.

What Chris Benoit did to this family is horrible and can never be explained. With that I think WWE putting him back on 24/7,dvds etc is fine. I personally skip Benoit matches because it sickens me to think what he did to a woman and a kid. Wrestling aside, its disgusting and I do not care if it was a relative of mine, I could never forgive and forget such a horrific act of violence. Benoit though was a part of WCW,WWF/E and ECW history. I say put him back on all that classic footage, but DO NOT promote him in 24/7 ads or on dvd commercials. Do not try to make money off of his name, just let him back on and stop with the game of make believe and acting like he did not exist If anything taking him out makes it more awkward and noticeable. Subscribers of 24/7 and people who buy old DVDs are aware that Benoit existed...so I am fine with him back on it.

I think WWE should still limit Benoit in their history. At the time of his death, Chris was my favorite WWE performer. But, due to the fact that he murdered his wife and son, it pains me too much to see him on the screen. Benoit was destined for any sort of Wrestling Hall of Fame UNTIL he committed those horrible, unforgivable acts against his family. I realize his brain was damaged, but he was still responsible for his actions. Sorry, but keep Benoit off of TV.

I think WWE should still limit Benoit in their history. At the time of his death, Chris was my favorite WWE performer. But, due to the fact that he murdered his wife and son, it pains me too much to see him on the screen. Benoit was destined for any sort of Wrestling Hall of Fame UNTIL he committed those horrible, unforgivable acts against his family. I realize his brain was damaged, but he was still responsible for his actions. Sorry, but keep Benoit off of TV.

Seth, I have no problem with them editing out Chris & Nancy together because I have no problem with them editing out Chris, and showing them together might be even creepier than on their own. "Here is Chris Benoit with his future wife who he brutally murdered before using his fictional character's finishing hold to kill their son."

When showing his matches is brought up, you have to keep in mind that at BEST it would be tacky to show him using the hold he used to murder his son.

I don't have a big problem with HHH & HBK using the hold because their intention seems to be "taking it back," though it might have been a good idea to wait longer.

That's not a typo, that's called using the wrong word, rendering your whole thought incomprehensible. Difference.

I would suggest that an even more ridiculous approach to take is to assume WWEisrightallthetimeforeverandeveramen. I bet THAT will never bite you in the ass. Who cares who's decision it was to put it in the match? It's even grosser that they sat around and talked about it. And they sure as hell weren't doing it to honor him, so I'll ask again, what were they thinking?

And I don't know if they can ever "take back" a move used by someone to kill their own son. There's plenty of other submission holds that aren't associated with killers....

Dude, the only place I have ever read that it could have been the Crippler Crossface used on Daniel was my girlfriend's copy of the National Enquirer.

None of the police reports I have seen indicated it. If you have it documented otherwise, feel free to copy a link and continue on. But at this point, you're clinging to this one idea which is a very weak premise.

BTW, "who's" means "who is." You were looking for the word "whose" which is possessive. That wasn't a typo, you just used the wrong word. Yet I can determine what you meant; thus your thought was not incomprehensible when I apply a little of my own intelligence. "Try it and see" (to quote you from earlier).

Double Wrong, but thank you Mr. Sarcasm; he used the wrong word, and none of it made sense. As he said earlier. Congratulations if you could make it out.

As for the bruising, check Ring of Hell, the author Matthew Randazzo says the pattern of bruising indicated he used the hold. And he don't work for the Enquirer. No links, sorry.

That's my only source, but even if he completely made it up I STILL think it's tasteless to try and use the hold again. For the third time, what were they thinking?

To try and defend WWE in their treatment of this entire issue is kind of sick. That's my main point, but if it isn't a viewpoint shared by others, that's fine. The WWE apologist thing just gets old, and gets my panties in a bunch. Obviously.

Been watching a lot of old ECW TV with Chris and Nancy, and while its weird, I think it's unfair to Nancy to edit her out or ignore just because of what happened to her. She's not the murderer. She doesn't deserve to have her legacy erased.

The Crossface on Daniel factoid was reported in the first Wrestling Observer after the murders and was also in the excellent Maxim article about the murders.

Shockmaster-You're right, but my point was that at least they seem to have good intentions as far as using the hold.

Bix- I can't even imagine what they're intentions were. What do you think their reasoning was? Like I said, there are plenty of holds out there; why have HHH of all people start using it as a finish?

Can you believe that the NFL doesn't wipe OJ Simpson from the history books? Sure, he was found "not guilty" in a criminal court of law by his peers, but he was found "guilty" in a civil court. Regardless of guilt or innocence, it sure is disgusting that he is trying to profit from the murder of his wife by penning a book titled, "If I Did It." Shouldn't the NFL be ashamed of themselves for 1) acknowledging one of the greatest running backs the game has ever seen and 2) taking money each time someone buys one of their game films that has an image of OJ in it?

''To try and defend WWE in their treatment of this entire issue is kind of sick''

That's absurd. You've got loads of people in this topic saying that they feel uncomfortable watching Benoit matches. Is it really wise to therefore mention him when wrestling is entertainment? Defending THAT is sick? Whatever their intentions for using his hold were, I'm sure they aren't to go 'LOL, THIS IS THE HOLD HE USED TO KILL HIS SON' there is obviously some reasoning behind it, and an objective to it that we aren't privvy to unless we are in the creative meetings.

I've said loads time and time again that I thought last week's Raw sucked. There - bang out of the water goes the 'WWE is right all the time' thing you claim I do. It's just a name I used on this website, I couldn't be bothered to think of anything else and it generally goes with my thought process. I don't think they never make mistakes, I'm saying that there is a thought process behind everything they do, because they have objectives that need to be met, and if you aren't in the company then you won't know about them or even consider them. I'm merely putting their side of the argument across in the name of healthy debate. I didn't even like the idea of the million dollar giveaway - I'm not even eligible - but I defended it to the hilt. Why? Because there's obviously a reason they are doing it, and I'm just putting that side across. When it comes to wrestling, I'll trust the opinions of people actually in the business rather than people that wish they were. Because I'd say they are 100 times more likely to be right about certain issues, even if not 100% of the time.

As for the typo - I really do apologise. Yes I typed the wrong word. Not because I didn't know what the word meant, but because I was typing quickly and for some reason a different word came out of my fingers. I deeply apologise.

The NFL goes out of its way not to acknowledge OJ unless they absolutely have to.

It's not the typo, at all. Totally excusable, it just made for difficult reading. No need to apologize.

I understand, they must have had a reason for bringing back the crossface. I'm just pretty sure their reason, whatever it was, was not a good one, the same as whatever reason they had for the 1,000 other terrible, heartless angles they've used.

And I KNOW, they're highly paid professionals. But they're highly payed professionals who thought stuff like Katie Vick was good entertainment. To feel like they are unassailable because of their salary and position is a ridiculous attitude to have.

I see what you're doing here, defending the hard-working folks at WWE, which is not a bad thing in itself. But in the end, when you don't have any counter arguments besides "they know what they're doing", I think it makes your points ring pretty hollow. And when stuff like life and death is involved, it seems either sick or just callous. That's just an opinion, btw.

I don't defend everything. I've said last week's Raw sucked, I've said I don't even like the million dollar mania, or rather I don't care for it, but I still defend it. If my arguments really were as hollow as 'they know what they are doing' then I wouldn't be able to write so much on them. I do try to go into detail on the advantages of the things the company tries, even if I am always batting for the same side.

It's not that they know more about wrestling because of their salary and position, it's that they have the salary and position because they know more about wrestling. That's what I always get at. If they try things and they fail, they nix it and move on. If they are constantly doing something, it's because they know it makes them money or relates to an objective in some way - otherwise they wouldn't be doing it.

Why do you think the reason wasn't a good one? I just hardly think they want to go out of their way to bring negative thoughts to their viewers, especially when they've commited so much time to dissassociating themselves from Benoit himself. It looks to me like they want to take the move back from Benoit, and by having two of their most trusted and respected guys use it will hopefully mean that the crowd would be too caught up in their match to care that it was to do with Benoit. I don't think they want to refer to Benoit or his family in any way when they use the move, it's just another part of the healing process for the business. I honestly can't think of any negative reason they would have to even want their talent to use the hold.

"It's not that they know more about wrestling because of their salary and position, it's that they have the salary and position because they know more about wrestling."

I can see there is just a basic difference in philosophy here. I am inclined to believe that the people running WWE aren't necessarily the greatest wrestling minds around. Stephanie McMahon was not hired for her talent.

I am also inclined to believe that their policies of giving top spots to only huge musclebound wrestlers, denying adequate health care to their "independent contractors", and non-stop working schedule lead, in some part at least, to the condition Chris Benoit was in when he killed his family and himself. This is not saying they are responsible in any way, shape, or form, only that many of their company policies, such as no off-seasons, no health insurance, and no small wrestlers are in some way encouraging all the premature death in wrestling.

Again, not saying WWE are in any way directly responsible. But they are at least in a position to change things, and perhaps recognize that they could even PREVENT this kind of thing from happening if they wanted to. But there's no change, and those of us who do care for whatever stupid reason get our faces rubbed in it by WWE 24/7, and HHH using the crossface, and death angles, and HHH steroid jokes, and Vicki Guererro, and all the rest.

All that is why, in my opinion only, the WWE writers and the McMahons are not easily excused when they decide to turn real tragedy into entertainment. You obviously feel differently, and that's fine. But when you try to argue their position, it seems misguided, from my perspective.

Mother of Christ, apologies for the rant. Had a little on my chest there. Will shut up now.

I read Ring Of Hell last week, and while it was an interesting read, my major problem with it is the fact that the author has such disdain for pro wrestling and its fans, that it seems to get in the way of a very sad story.

He constantly says that Benoit was a total mark for the business because he wanted to be the best. I have to disagree with that point. I feel that in any job, you should aspire to be the very best. Is Tom Brady a mark because he wants the Patriots to be the best? Is Martin Scorsee a mark because he wants to make the best movies? I don't think so. Is Seth a mark because he wants to be the best writer/reporter? You aren't a mark for something if you want to be successful, you are just driven.

My other problem with the book is that at one point he mentions that he chose not to report anything about Benoits first marriage because it served no purpose other than bringing more pain to his children who had lost their father and brother. He then procedes to call Benoit a psychopath less than 5 pages later. My guess is that he chose not to report anything about his first marriage because nothing happened during it, other than typical marriage problems, and the affair with Nancy. If that is the case, then it didn't fit his story arc of Benoit being an sociopath from the time he was a kid, and that maybe, just maybe he was for all intents and purposes a good man up until the weeks preceding the murders.

I also have to say that for the most part I agree with wweisright. Bringing the crossface back is fine in the long run, I will admit that the first time I saw it, I got a little antsy, but I got over that when I realized that it was a wrestling move before Benoit, so why can't it be one after Benoit? Also, the crossface goes across the bridge of the nose, so there is no way that it was used to kill daniel. My guess is that the brusies were from typical childhood wrestling (hell I once powerbombed my brother when we were kids). Im guessing that Benoit simply used a chokehold while the kid was sedated. Hard to believe that it has already been a year...

Sorry for the rant, it just kept going...

Every time I have seen the crossface applied by HBK and HHH, Ive been reminded of Benoit, but in a positive light. As if to say, we miss Benoit, the performer and this is all we can do as a tribute. At the same time, it helps to remove the hold from its stigma. A few years from now, there will be millions of fans who wont even know about benoit, and will relate that move to other wrestlers, which is a good thing for the WWE. Again, i rather see people using the crossface or the flying headbutt than Vickie Guerrero on TV, or her making out with Edge.

And that whol thing about Benoit using the crossface on his son sounds a little farfetched to me, and non of us will know for sure. I had read he used a pillow to suffocate Daniel, and a television cord to choke Nancy. But for all we know, it could have been Nancy killing Daniel and herself, and Benoit hanging himself because of this, or killed her after she killed daniel. There are so many variables non of us will ever know that to me its pointless to even try to map out exactly what happened

IN any case...

Diana Hart, ex wife of the British Bulldog, wrote a book a some years ago that was removed from stores pretty quickly. I read it a few weeks ago. In it, she claims that Davey Boy physically abused her, was a severe drug addict for years and used to drug her almost every night so he could anally rape her. She also claimed Jim Neidhart did the same thing to her sister.

Now, that may not be as sickening as murder, but that is some pretty f'n disgusting behavior that went on for years. Now, this hasnt stopped WWE from promoting these two men as great athletes, almost heroes of their time. Not only that, their son and daughter, respectively, are currently contracted and wrestling on their 2 main shows.

I concede the fact that WWE shouldnt be promotin a murderer, but it shouldn't be promoting junkies and rapists either. If Benoit's case had been kept a secret, he would be praised as much, if not more, than men like eddie and davey, who deserve all the praise they get.

"His talent, his matches, and his contributions were too great to be forgotten, but his actions were simply too horrific, too shocking, and too unexpected to forgive."

QFT.

Matt2517-

1. Wanting to be the best at your job doesn't make you a mark. Wanting to be the best at your job at the expense of your health (physical and mental) makes you a mark.
2. It was a "modified version of the crossface." The bruising pattern on the face and arms matched (and the arm puzzled the investigators until they saw Benoit using the Crossface on a tape of one of his matches). Given the size difference, his hands could've easily covered Daniel's nose and mouth, smothering him to death.

FiFo-

There was no reporting that it was a pillow past the first day or two, which was just speculation based on the fact that the word "smothered" was used. During press conferences and the like, the DA said a "chokehold" was used to kill Daniel.

Bix-

"1. Wanting to be the best at your job doesn't make you a mark. Wanting to be the best at your job at the expense of your health (physical and mental) makes you a mark."

While I see your point, I respectfully disagree with you. As someone who watches sports on a regular basis, we are constantly told that guys who gut injuries out are "warriors" and have a "total love of the game" Sometimes you just have to play injured. That being said, if Benoit was in as bad of shape as claimed (I dont buy the brain thing, my grandfather is 85, and he couldn't navigate his way around the neighborhood, let alone keep the schedule that Benoit kept over the past few months of his life)

Here is what I have never gotten, why can't people just say that Benoit lost his damned mind and killed his family and himself? Why are people constantly making excuses for him? (His brian was scrambled, he was on steroids, yadda...yadda...yadda...) Its sad to say, but what happened with the Benoit family, happens quite frequently. A dispute between parents escelates to the point where one of them kills the other, then kills the kids, then kills self. Wrestling and the WWE had about as much to do with Chris Benoit killing his family and himself, as Ronald McDonald has to do with my cheeseburger at McDonalds...

"While I see your point, I respectfully disagree with you. As someone who watches sports on a regular basis, we are constantly told that guys who gut injuries out are "warriors" and have a "total love of the game" Sometimes you just have to play injured."

No, you don't. It's stupid.

"That being said, if Benoit was in as bad of shape as claimed (I dont buy the brain thing, my grandfather is 85, and he couldn't navigate his way around the neighborhood, let alone keep the schedule that Benoit kept over the past few months of his life)"

The comparison was misunderstood. The level of degeneration was similar to an 85 year-old with Alzheimer's, but that didn't necessarily mean Benoit had Alzheimer's, just that his response to stresses would've been extreme.

"Here is what I have never gotten, why can't people just say that Benoit lost his damned mind and killed his family and himself? Why are people constantly making excuses for him? (His brian was scrambled, he was on steroids, yadda...yadda...yadda...) Its sad to say, but what happened with the Benoit family, happens quite frequently. A dispute between parents escelates to the point where one of them kills the other, then kills the kids, then kills self. Wrestling and the WWE had about as much to do with Chris Benoit killing his family and himself, as Ronald McDonald has to do with my cheeseburger at McDonalds..."

Benoit still could've been evil/crazy, but that doesn't mean that the drug abuse and brain damage didn't make it worse. He was abusing painkillers, amphetamines, psychiatric drugs, and steroids (gee, I wonder if having 59 times the normal amount of testosterone could have a negative psychological impact) all while having a severely damaged brain. He would've been crazy no matter what career path he chose, but the wrestling related (drug and brain) damage still could've made him craziER.

As a father, I will never condone or understand what Benoit did, but erasing him will never change those events. In the long run, Benoit will be responsible for saving more lives than he took, as things have certainly changed since the tragedy. It is also unfair to the people who wrestled him, to be robbed of career highlights. It's funny, if WWE mentions Benoit, they are exploiting him, yet if a show like Dateline or 60 Minutes mentions a murderer, they are lauded for excellent news reporting. Those shows, just like WWE, are all about the ratings.

It's not that if WWE would be exploiting Benoit if they showed his matches, it's that they might be perceived as such.

I just think its odd that they would put that PPV up almost a year to the date of the murder-suicide.

Looking over the responses, i don't think i can add much to this conversation that hasn't been noted by others already.

I agree with the seperation of personal and professional lives endeavors what have you.

I didn't give up on Hogan cause he took steroids. I quit Hogan cause he put the Ultimate Warrior over at WMVI.

I could care less that Honky Tonk Man is a racist prick. I enjoy him in-ring.

****Nobody benefits from the edits...
Benoit's footage SHOULD RETURN to both DVDs and 24/7. Why keep him off? Whoever doesn't like it always has a fast-forward button. On the other hand, what choice is there when they remove it? None. Instead, we are forced to watch shows that have been horribly butchered leaving some shows completely unwatchable.

****It's already back in DVD releases, why not 24/7....
If WWE is truly a professional company, then by releasing those tagged classics DVDs and the SummerSlam Anthology with Benoit, they are sending the message that they are fine with making money off him and a return to 24/7 programs is a no-brainer.

****Quit pretending you belong to the company or fear media...
The only reason that some of the so-caled smart fans agree with the elimination of Benoit is because they fear the backlash from the Nancy Grace's of this world? Guess what, she and the rest of the media have said nothing? Nobody cares anymore except for some wannabe smart fans and some childish fans who still have a problem coming to grips with the loss of one of their "heroes." Get over yourselves.

****Ruining history and programs...
Removing Benoit only harms the enjoyment of the product and is insulting to the other wrestlers he was working with during the deleted scenes by saying that Benoit is more important.

****What about the real victims...
What about the children Benoit left behind? Aren't they the true victims at this point? Not only did they lose their father thanks to his dedication to the business that kept him on the road, but the injuries involved played a role in his demise. If Benoit footage stayed in, they'd receive some royalties.

You hypocrites asking for Benoit's footage to be removed should smarten up. You aren't the victims, his kids are the surviving victims. At least let his kids, who've lost 3 people they were close with, have something. The only way this is possible is if they re-insert the footage.

In light of these point, bringing back Benoit footage is the only reasonable choice.